Categories: Chit-chat :

Please post your recovery stories here.

Showing 1-104 of 104 messages
Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/18/13 2:46 PM
I've read the FAQs and searched the help center. 

I never see anyone reporting any successful recoveries after these dramatic drops attributed to panda or penguin or to the personalization of individual search results. I think it would be extremely helpful to those effected to have some examples of not just survival & continued struggle but actual recovery & a return to the road to prosperity for their sites. 

Even if it's not first hand & you know of a credible recovery story please post it here. 

True Answers No Hypocrisy 8/18/13 4:26 PM <This message has been deleted.>
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Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/18/13 6:24 PM
I think this post should be pinned to the top or highlighted. 

The idea that recovery is even possible is something that could really help a lot of people understand & move on effectively. Of course there are not a lot of success stories posted in a place where people come for help with google troubles. It is illogical though that there would be none. It is illogical that you never see "hooray! we finally did it!" 
True Answers No Hypocrisy 8/18/13 6:48 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Been wrong before! 8/18/13 6:49 PM
Amazing Google, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.
A success story is a thanks and then the poster gets on with their life.
OP here including TC earn plenty of it.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Lysis 8/18/13 7:05 PM
>> I think this post should be pinned to the top or highlighted. 

lol okayyyyyyyyyyy
(unknown) 8/18/13 7:06 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/18/13 7:18 PM
Wow. Im actually shocked at the reaction here. What a bunch of useless nonesense. You should be ashamed of yourself lysis. Wrong before... I have no clue what you are saying.

Is this really the type of environment that Google wants to provide for its users and partners seeking support?

Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Been wrong before! 8/18/13 7:31 PM
How many people you know did something stupid, got caught, did their restitution and now want to talk about.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/18/13 8:01 PM
Come on dude there are people telling their stories in here all day.

Nobodies perfect but i dont think theres any evidence that i or anyone ive ever helped in here really did anything "stupid" to their sites. I only jump in on threads where the sites seems to have real legitimate value.

Im asking a simple question. There is absolutely no reason for the personal attacks and no reason to have moved this thread into no mans land.

Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Been wrong before! 8/18/13 8:16 PM
No body has attacked you or moved your thread anywhere.
but It's not surprising that you can't get someone to testify.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/18/13 8:31 PM
Sure buddy. Thanks.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. StevieD_Web 8/18/13 8:53 PM
Been Wrong Before nailed the answer.   Not too many peeps want to admit to their stupid/wrong/evil/accidental endeavors also want to admit to their recovery.


Once in a blue moon we will hear privately from somebody and even rarer will there be a public display of appreciation and recovery:

Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/18/13 8:58 PM
With your phrase "got caught" are you actually trying to imply that everyone effected did something dishonest or against the rules?
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/18/13 9:11 PM
Excellent Stevie-D. Thank you so much.

I think been wrong is just stating the obvious. The only actual "answer" to my request is to post a recovery story.

Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/18/13 9:19 PM
Getting a manual penalty removed is not really the same thing as a recovery.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. StevieD_Web 8/18/13 9:56 PM
you need to define recovery.


As John Mu has said many times and many ways......following algorithmic or manual action.... don't expect traffic levels to return to anything approaching prior levels


of course there are exceptions.....ie manual action for accidental hidden text..... but for most part, assuming prior traffic levels were artificially boosted in some way, then the recovered traffic levels are going to be a mere portion of the preceding levels 
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/18/13 10:38 PM
Why on earth would you assume that the traffic levels were "artificially boosted in some way". I see no evidence of that in most cases.
RaseOne 8/18/13 10:38 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/18/13 10:42 PM
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. StevieD_Web 8/18/13 10:52 PM
>I see no evidence of that in most cases.

Really?

Come on.... why would somebody build backlinks if but not for the traffic that might come through the backlink OR to gain ranking position and more traffic ?  

And if the traffic levels are indeed boosted in any way (be it direct traffic or search traffic), what would you call that traffic but artificial ? 
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/18/13 11:14 PM
Are you actually implying that everyone effected was part of some unnatural link scheme? Are you actually implying that they all did link building? Thats complete bs. Are you suggesting that site with a lot of refferal traffic does not deserve seach traffic?

So... According to you and John Mu everyone effected should give up on ever having the traffic they had before?

Re: Please post your recovery stories here. StevieD_Web 8/18/13 11:24 PM
I basically stated that somebody who engaged in unnatural links, whatever they might be, received some benefit from the those links.   If Google demoted/penalized the site then recovery will be to a level of traffic less than previously received.

The same rules apply to any attempt to artificially boost a site regardless of what that attempt might be.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/19/13 12:13 AM
I do not understand all this talk about "artificially boosting traffic" you're assuming that everyone effected was actually doing that. It's just silly. It's not even close to true. 

You're basically saying that the ranks everyone earned over years & years were undeserved & it's so obvious that its simply not the case. The denial that there are problems with the algo changes & the 1 by 1 personalization etc. etc. is so bizarre... Any reasonable person would admit a potential for error. 
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. StevieD_Web 8/19/13 12:54 AM
everyone who engaged in a practice to gain traffic, whether it was keyword stuffing or hiding text or aggressive link building (or whatever else) was doing so to do what?   TO GAIN TRAFFIC above and beyond what the site might otherwise get.  Yes, some might have been more successful than others in their efforts.  That said, if the technique wasn't natural (white hat or whatever you want to call it) then the additional traffic (whatever amount) gained wasn't either.  And yes, everybody who did X or Y was affected.   Duh, Google didn't penalize sites that failed to rank in the top 1000 for a query.



Re: Please post your recovery stories here. nidya 8/19/13 1:30 AM
I found this french story:

https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!msg/webmaster-fr/jfmUVghbBts/p-llW6kuDfYJ

1 727 947 links...
Google removed the penalty...
Serp recovered in 15 days
.



Re: Please post your recovery stories here. ets 8/19/13 1:59 AM

I think you might be arguing about different things? There is a big difference between (say) a penalty for spammy behavior (which includes Penguin) and an "algorithmic demotion" for Panda types issues, which can IMHO even affect sites of high quality that just happen not to be well optimized in the way Google is looking for.

And, yes, recovery from Panda is perfectly possible. Here is the traffic from my main site for 2011. Ignore the big spike in the middle, which was caused by a kind of accidental DDOS attack. Traffic took a big hit from an early Panda and by the end of the year had recovered. It did take about six months of work. It should go without saying - you know me well enough - that my site was not using any sort of spam trickery or accidental traffic enhancement: it was a plain, ordinary site. I accept that the site had room for improvement and I improved it. Did it deserve the hit? I rather think not, but then I would say that, wouldn't I? I think Panda is and was a bit of a blunt instrument - and I fully understand the reason for that.

Anyway, when I make suggestions about Panda, Raseone, they're based on personal experience. I hope this gives you some glimmer of hope.

Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/19/13 8:25 AM
Best answer so far ets. Thanks a usual. That certainly helps to provide some hope.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. StevieD_Web 8/19/13 8:40 AM
@ets

was there a single correction you made or were there several corrections.... and was the improvement instantaneous? 
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/19/13 9:18 AM
Thats a good question. The recovey looks pretty gradual which would be "normal". Did you notice any specific reactions to specific changes? Had you ever had a manual penalty if any sort?
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Paul Macnamara 8/19/13 9:44 AM
I can tell you from first hand experiancethat Panda is most definitely recoverable. I agree with ets, it really was a blunt instrument but I fully understand the reasons behind it. The bottom line is that for any site that did get caught up in Panda and was able to recover, they ended up with a far better site as far as user experiance is concerned. The days of throwing up crap pages and getting search traction are pretty much coming to an end if we aren't there already.

Penguin, in my experience is a different animal altogether.(so to speak) Although I have heard of adectotal evidence of recovery from the first iteration of Penguin, I have seen no first hand evidence of it. By recovery, I mean that the site has no "anchor" around it that would prevent it from getting search traffic if the penalty did not exist. As far as Penguin 2.0 goes, only the scummiest of SEO charlatans are claiming recovery and I would be wary of anyone that said that they could recover a site from a Penguin penalty as there is just not enough evidence out in the wild that it is possible.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/19/13 10:10 AM
Excellent Paul. Thats good to hear. And more is better. Please keep them coming.

Better sites and better user experience are a webmasters every day mission. In my personal experience these dramatic drops that often put people out of business are much more harmful than helpful in terms of a sites continued development. I understand where you're coming from but in my case this cost me an entire build of my site and diverted tons of attention away from publishing content and improving UX for two years now. Another effect has been an exponential increase in the piracy of my material since those sites now rank so well. That costs me even more time and diverts me even further from my core mission.

Most publishers will not be sure if its penguin, panda or an effect of the increased personalization or just a natural decline in the percieved quality of their site. These drastic moves just confuse people.

Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/19/13 10:42 AM
Thank god I'm starting to run out of ideas for fixing the existing site. It will be nice to focus more on the new one. 
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. cristina 8/19/13 11:06 AM
Hi RaseOne, it is possible that people who got their problems solved after posting to this forum do not even read this forum much until they have a new question, so they might not even see this thread.
Usually when someone posts here with a starting line of wow what a recovery, they go on to mention that they came back to the forum to ask another question, so it is not all just thank you guys it is all wonderful now.
But it is very nice of you to start a thread like this.
I think the success is when people do not post to ask questions about problems, and that means that all is good with their sites :)
We just go on trying to help the people who ask questions here.


Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Ashley 8/19/13 11:29 AM
I actually moved this to chit chat.

Anyhow - I think the best thing to do is to use the search function and go and look for some threads. There are quite a few stories here, especially in the last 12 months, of algorithmic and manual penalty recoveries. 

But most people don't loiter around the forums. So, I don't think a lot of people are coming back to check and will see this post and add their site. Especially since most participants are here because of a current issue - not because they've recovered and are doing well. Make sense?
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. ets 8/19/13 12:21 PM
I think what Paul says is bang on the money:

The bottom line is that for any site that did get caught up in Panda and was able to recover, they ended up with a far better site as far as user experience is concerned.

That's a very valuable observation - because it's the real motivation to anyone struggling with these types of issues: if you do emerge, your site will be in better shape. On the other hand, it's a sickening experience, you might well feel a great deal of damage has been done in the process, your "far better site" might no longer be financially viable, and you might emerge feeling bitter and resentful, whether others think that's justified or not. So it's a mixed bag. I understand why emotions run high on this forum and why people get angry and upset. Sometimes it's justified; sometimes it's not. I try to see it from both sides.

The thing I find difficult is, on the one hand, trying to see your site through completely objective, algorithmic eyes ("What exactly does Google want from me?") while on the other hand ignoring the algorithm completely (which is, of course, what you should be doing!) and focusing entirely on users and user satisfaction. I don't agree with "focus on building a great site and all else will follow"; I think you can do that and still struggle, especially if you're a straight-down-the-line, SEO-free, honest webmaster trying to compete against spammy or seriously SEO-optimized competition. 

I don't think the world cleaves neatly into honest people and spammers: there's a middle-ground. I think there are people who operate entirely oblivious to SEO (or, like me, have a strong aversion to it) and just build sites, good or otherwise; very savvy SEO people who try to figure out exactly what works and what doesn't without actually spamming - but who nevertheless, as far as I'm concerned, do their best to game the system; and the spammers themselves. If you're in the first group, it's the second group you have to worry about not the third group. And this, for me, is why the "just build a great site and all else will follow" theory falls down. 

But, of course, this applies to anything and everything in life...
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. cristina 8/19/13 1:13 PM
I doubt that people will post here if they had a recovery from a bad drop in search results and give details like site URL etc.
Simply because no site can be perfect. The moment they would post here "hey guys look this site is now perfect and totally recovered from that penalty etc." they will have people pointing to them various things that are not right.
Search results will pick that up, and for a few days it might  be in the first page of results for their site name.
When the site is not doing well that would not matter much.

Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/19/13 5:18 PM
The point of this thread was never to complain that people don't post recovery stories. The point is to prove that such stories even exist.

It is fankly embarrassing to post here about trouble with your site. Most site owners get advice that is so basic or subjective that it embarrases and frustrates them even more.

Obviously large numbers of perfectly sane webmasters believe recovery is impossible or incredibly unlikely & personally i don't blame them. After about a year i practically gave up. Its been two years now and google still seems completely numb to any upgrades or expansions that i do on these sites. Meanwhile dozens of other sites i run seem to rise and fall on thier own merrits as they should.

Google has influence over 70% -90% of all traffic depending on who you believe. If someones dreams & lifes work or the site they build around them falls out of favor naturally it would be a gradual effect that they could react to naturally. That was allways the way it worked. This sudden trash-canning that google does now just destroys people. Doubly so if they've been at it for years or decades.

I have allways had trouble believing that panda or simple algo changes were what crushed our site. I allways thought it was related to the increasing manipulation of each individual persons search results.

I would have liked to see this thread contain nothing but recovery examlples no matter how few, how partial, how second hand, how difficult, delayed, mysterious etc. ... Good luck with that right :)

This is not a game. Peoples futures are at stake. A little light at the end of the tunnel is the first thing people need when this happens to them and i was not seeing it anywhere.
 

Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Lysis 8/19/13 5:32 PM
>> Most site owners get advice that is so basic or subjective that it embarrases and frustrates them even more.

Well, that's usually the problem. We can't help it if noobs like to call themselves webmasters.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. StevieD_Web 8/19/13 6:40 PM
>Obviously large numbers of perfectly sane webmasters believe recovery is impossible or incredibly unlikely


and you base that statement upon what snippet of fact?
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. StevieD_Web 8/19/13 6:57 PM
>Google has influence over 70% -90% of all traffic depending on who you believe.


Organic Search?   Yes, Google has a majority of the USA traffic.  And some other countries as well.   World wide % are estimated to be substantial.  However, there are a lot of other countries where Google isn't dominate in search or sometimes not even a major player (think China, Korea and Japan for starters).


But Organic Search isn't what it use to be considering the proliferation of smart phones and tablets and the desire for quick/simple solutions.   And lets not forget the influence of social media sites.

Bottom line, I wouldn't be surprised to see Google start to dip below 50% this year in market/search segments that they use to have 80% or even 90% market share.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/19/13 8:09 PM
@ StevieD_Web
"and you base that statement upon what snippet of fact?"
1.) Innumerable posts in this forum
2.) similarly Innumerable posts in similar forums
3.) Quite a few Individual blogs & articles, youtubes etc.
4.) The existence of certain sites solely to call attention to the issue.
5.) My own experience & personal contacts

I don't even think it's worth arguing. It's a common theme. I notice a certain reluctance to touch on the personalization issue. It seems obvious that would have a broader effect than something like panda. 

@Lysis
This is decidedly not a "noob" issue. It's proven, high value content & long standing goodness that ends up suffering in a lot of cases. People start rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. How can you blame them when a site that's been stable for years get trash-canned overnight.

I almost never see bad advice in here unless it's really subjective. I've certainly gotten great support on a few specific issues myself but there is a certain futility in chasing down all the bugs & imperfections when they never seemed to hurt the site before. From what I see this consistently fails to produce a result. 
 


Re: Please post your recovery stories here. StevieD_Web 8/19/13 11:54 PM
Your sample base of users is 

A) Small sample set

B) Biased

There are on average about 1000 unique threads on this forum per month (my estimation from the data that I can see).  Lets figure 500 are about indexing/ranking concerning a single unique site. 500 per month and there are how many billions of websites?  Your sample set is just too small.  Even counting all the other forums etc, your sample set is decimal point % of the entire web.

Secondly, the webmasters etc expressing the opinion are biased as they are discussing their own site.  Objective comments about one's own site are pretty rare.  Kinda of like objective critical comments about one's wife, gf, children, mother, dog etc are seldom well received. 

Now I am not saying the thought isn't commonplace among the sample set as it does seem quite common.  That said most webmasters have no clue about Panda/Penguin or anything else for the simple reason it hasn't affected them in a negative manner.

Sure, maybe some peeps are blind to the issues....however the real test is real business expansions/closings etc. Real business means those who sell a tangible good or service... such as you selling fonts or myself selling widgets are not massively closing.
.




Is personalization an issue for checking search rankings?  Absolutely.  It distorts proper ranking.   Fortunately there is Chrome Incognito.  And Google WMT results.  I also keep one platform clean (never click on any query) just to check search results using multiple geographic specified locations with different search engines.   Again, the average website owner doesn't care as long as traffic comes and buys stuff.



> I've certainly gotten great support on a few specific issues myself but there is a certain futility in chasing down all the bugs & imperfections when they never seemed to hurt the site before.

You do realize that Google admits to using 200+ parameters to determine search results? (Personally, I propose the number of parameters is over 300)  And the weight/emphasis of the parameters is constantly changing?

None of us, not even the Googlers who show up on the forum, have a real clue as to what is being evaluated on the site at any one moment in time.

Yep, it is a guessing game.  It is actually an easy guessing game when there is a clue (ie a link message from Google) OR the site tanks on a specific date OR when the site is small and simple.  Things get real complicated, real fast when the size of the site grows etc.  Even simple stuff can be hard.  I am not saying you have this problem... hidden text... unless you know where to look is a real bytch to find (unless your name is Google and you have automated tools specifically for the task).  Therein is another problem with judging sites.  I am good at finding hidden text on small sites.  Big/complex ones not so much.  And some hidden text is just a mistake, an errant piece of coding or whatever..  Bottom line, we look for common and simple issues and might completely miss something drastic and important.  Most of us don't even look for hidden text issues because we don't have the time to hand comb through the site.  Sorry we are not perfect, but we are free. Which is a lot cheaper than the alternative.  
 
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/20/13 8:23 AM
Sorry Stevie. You have no obligation to try to convince me of anything but I think you're arguing the wrong point.

When the reality is complete uncertainty and the number of factors so vast and ever changing ... When the situation looks so intractable. people need some evidence that recovery is even possible. Thats the only reason i started this thread. Bias is not an issue since perception is exactly what im talking about.

I mentioned personalization not because the effect confuses webmasters on their percieved rank but because of the potentially massive effect that it has on thier actual traffic.

On business closures etc. ...
If 10,000 small time artisans and sites in niche markets suddenly went belly up there would be virtually no data available to prove it.

We do much more then sell fonts here. Part of the reason i read this forum is to help insure that what happend to my sites never happens those of any of my clients. I need to be able to advise people in general.

Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Edwin Chavey 8/22/13 2:14 PM
Wow RaseOne - I'm very surprised by how this post was interpreted by so many.  I'm also hungry to hear recovery stories and to learn from them.  Just to hear that anything Matt C. and the webspam team has recommended resulted in even a slight positive effect on an injured site... would be very helpful.  It's a crime this post was relegated to "chit-chat."  It's one of the most important issues for "crawling, indexing & ranking."  If you hear about relevant recovery stories, please let me know.  Thanks!
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. StevieD_Web 8/22/13 3:02 PM
Chit-Chat is just as important as any other forum thread and is used to handle threads when/where a single website is not being discussed.


Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/22/13 11:29 PM
Thanks Edwin. It's a little rough in here if you dare to propose anything that would reflect poorly on Google such as an apparent lack of recoveries. 

Even so, I was surprised at the repeated attempts to derail the thread or render the question irrelevant. I'm pretty offended at the post that our friend Stevie marked as "best answer". What an insult to so many people. 

As for it being moved into "chit chat". I think its a demotion of sorts but Stevie is sort of right. It's a non-technical post. 

I've found a few recovery stories & a few are posted here so apparently it's possible but it certainly seems to be exceedingly rare. I'm still waiting for someone to prove me wrong.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. StevieD_Web 8/23/13 12:06 AM
most people don't want to discuss their various points of embarrassment, be it an STD or website disease.

Maybe 90% of first posters don't include their url until it is coaxed from them..  And a significant portion of  those will delete their posts. 

Why?  Embarrassment.

If your site was drop kicked to the curb because you did something.... careless.... would you want your competition (or boss)  to know the facts?   Not likely.

Which means most people aren't going to discuss their successes in fixing the situation simply out of fear that their competition will gain an advantage (or the boss will fire their arse for being stupid).


Yes, I know, it is crazy, but we do deal with a lot of paranoid people on this forum.


As to the Best Answer.

A) I was told by John Mu when I became a TC it is my prerogative as to who receives the reward or why.

B) There can be multiple BA per thread.  Wait till you get a real rambunctious thread and every TC and 6 Googlers joins in with a BA of their own. 

C)  Been Wrong Before pointed out my basic observation is a simple sentence.  I rewarded him a Best Answer.   I almost did the same for you RaseOne just a few hours ago, not because your answer was the best per se for the topic, but that it provided meaningful insight tangentially related to the issue.  I didn't because the thread was on the Crawl forum and those BA I generally reserve for BA directly related to the topic of the thread.



>but it certainly seems to be exceedingly rare. I'm still waiting for someone to prove me wrong.


I don't think you are wrong.... recovery is not very common.  I suspect recovery happens for less than 10% of all sites.  I would not be shocked to hear 5% or less will recover.  And remember, recovery being a relative terms.... most sites who recover are not going to return to prior traffic levels so there is going to be sites who "recover" but are just not happy with their levels distorting all the recovery numbers.  
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/23/13 12:54 AM
I really don't understand why you are going sooo far out of your way to say no one will ever post a recovery story. Just let people not post them then!

Out of everything that you said the part that strikes me as most strange is not the low number of recoveries. I can see with my own eyes that this seems to be the case. The strange part is the assertion that few will recover to previous levels.

Why?

Good sites grow week over week, year over year. Why would they never return to or surpass previous levels? The internet is growing, the population is growing... why would a particular site fail to thrive as it it did before if it cures whatever the algorithms suddenly decided to hate about it?  
nidya 8/23/13 1:28 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/23/13 1:43 AM
Stevie D

The more you talk, the more offensive you are. Now to have been hit like this is like having an std? What's the matter with you?

Why do you keep insisting that everyone who got trash-canned did something wrong & should be embarrassed. It's infuriating. No wonder people are suspicious... or "paranoid" as you put it.

Bosses? Competition? ... distraction, deflection.

Screw my competition. When they start making decent fonts (or at least stop stealing mine) I'll worry about them. 

Google has actually become my biggest competition since they are competing with me over who will make money from my fonts.


Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Ben Griffiths 8/23/13 8:13 AM
Google has actually become my biggest competition since they are competing with me over who will make money from my fonts.

Google always occupied this position for the segment of your traffic delivered via natural search. If your business relies on this segment 100% then you ignored a major part of your responsibility as a company.

How active are you on pinterest?

Do you know what a good blended CPA is for your product across an organic/PPC mix?

Etc


Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/23/13 8:41 AM
I know well what CPA & PPC mean but I refuse to discuss paying google for traffic to my site in this thread. They should be paying me for all the ads they are serving on pirate copies of my fonts

I am not active on Pintrest at all. Wouldn't that be "artificially boosting my backlinks" and "spamming"? The users of my material will put it on pintrest for me if they want to. I frankly don't care at all.

Who said we rely on organic traffic 100%? Why imply that? What in gods name does any of that have to do with posting recovery stories?

Would you suggest I start selling my digital typefaces in the grocery store?

True, Google always has led people to pirate copies of my work. It's just 100x worse now.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. StevieD_Web 8/23/13 8:43 AM
>The strange part is the assertion that few will recover to previous levels.

In simplest terms manual action, penalties/demotions and algorithmic changes can be classified as one of two types

1)  Mistake
2)  Intentional.

Mistakes are just that... an honest mistake.   Mistakes are oversights.  Using a template that is corrupt and includes a hidden link in the template for example.   What ever traffic that was lost will be recovered 1=1 when the mistake is removed and the penalty/demotion/action expires.  

Intentional is deliberate.  Typically pushing the envelop/rules to gain traffic.   Cooking backlinks to gain traffic and Page Rank is intentional.  Intentional usually will gain a boost in traffic that is not deserved.  

John Mu has repeatedly stated in one form or another that sites who received such boosts and are penalized are most likely (or even not) going to return to prior traffic levels.   In simple terms if the site had 500,000 visitors and the boost got them to 1,000,000 the penalty will take them down far below 500,000 and AT BEST the 500,000 starting point would be full recover.   Obviously not the 1,000,000 to which they became accustomed to.  Why the 500,000 At Best comment?   Because the competition will have acquired some of the lost (penalized) traffic and might not be willing to give it up (ie make improvements to their own sites to keep the traffic).


Re: Please post your recovery stories here. StevieD_Web 8/23/13 8:47 AM
>I am not active on Pintrest at all. Wouldn't that be "artificially boosting my backlinks" and "spamming"? 

No.  Pinterest links are nofollow tagged so their is no PageRank benefit, only traffic.  Same-same with Facebook,


Personally I agree with your position and see only limited benefits for your product from both social media sites as your product is something people buy and use not discuss with their long lost high school 4th best friend.



Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/23/13 9:11 AM
You're still assuming that everyone who fails to recover has done something wrong or dishonest & would by nature just fail to compete adequately against their competition. Thats preposterous. I know who my real competition is. I know who really makes quality material in my genre & they are barely on Googles map at all.

Further... how am I supposed to "compete" against my own material? I am an artisan, maybe even a curator. Those seen by Google as my "competition" are a bunch of useless, redundant aggregators & software pirates... all funded by Adsense. They do nat make anything and they do not add any value to the items they are aggregating. 

Google sells my registered trademark as an Adsense keyword. Is that even legal? Google profits 24 hours a day from countless instances of Adsense sponsored piracy of my material that they choose to give favorable rank to. Is that even legal?  
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Ben Griffiths 8/23/13 9:12 AM
I just like to make sure I'm represented in any venue where I might have potential customers, seems like common sense - but yes, for traffic and increased site exposure, not because of backlinks or because of what it might do on Google (although it's all interdependent IMO).

Seems that custom fonts = designers = pinterest, but it's your customer base so I'm only offering examples of diffusing risk by diversifying my traffic.

The relevance to recovery stories is that most posters here are desperate for help (and sadly maybe even laying off employees) because they need a recovery Stevie points out is unlikely/impossible to achieve, so there won't be many to sample.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Ashley 8/23/13 9:25 AM
People here DO post success stories - do a search. They are all over the place. I like to do searches for phrases like "thank+you" or "recovered", etc. 

My only theory on why this wasn't a thread that deserved to be pinned or anything like that was because people who have recovered and are doing well are not likely to be hanging around here. The vast majority of people in this forum only come when they have a problem. When it's solved, they're outta here. So they won't see this thread. 

It's like this:
- I have weird car problems. I find a great place to get it fixed. It takes time, but the car is running better than ever. Do I stop by the shop every day or week after just to enjoy lobby coffee and tell people about the luck I've had?


Also - it was me who moved it to Chit Chat (stated before). I don't think it's criminal. Give me a break, boys - ease up on the drama (I'm looking at you Edwin!). It's not about a specific site and there's nothing wrong with the Chit Chat subforum. It's just where we put more general threads to keep the main forum for diagnosing issues on specific websites. This is the most appropriate subforum. 


Whatever. I said this all once before but apparently the rational/boring answers are easiest to ignore. 
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. ets 8/23/13 10:13 AM
Google sells my registered trademark as an Adsense keyword. Is that even legal? 

Well RaseOne (TM), as you will now be known, here is your answer:

And on the wider question of protecting trademarks:


Re: Please post your recovery stories here. StevieD_Web 8/23/13 10:50 AM
the forbes article is a great find ets.   +2 to you.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/23/13 11:47 AM
@ets
Forbes Article - There have been settlements that make the opposite case. 
Protecting Trademarks article - Unfortunately I have constant work to do protecting my copyrights & trademarks as I have for years. It sucks.

Good reads though. Totally relevant & credible. They both point to the "murkyness" of IP law. 

I just link spammed you with a green arrow.

@Ashley
This thread totally belongs in chit chat now but I didn't want it to turn out that way.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/23/13 12:18 PM
@Ben Hof

You're right. Any way to reach our audience is good. I have a facebook account & an FB fan page for our business. I use instagram. I have a tumblr account & a wordpress blog. I have all of these items linked & flowing together & some are piped into my sites. I had business & band pages on myspace before facebook existed. I've gained about 5,000 FB fans since panda... not from FB activity but from my limping pandalised site. If my traffic were anything like it were before "panda" or "grmsp" I would likely have 40,000+ by now.

In any case I don't really need to spend my time "spamming" my social network with promotions. The users of my fonts, artwork, apps & other creations publish millions of items featuring my work without any help from me. I post when I want to. My social network is by definition not for commerce or advertising.

I'm sure you can find some of my work on pintrest. I should probably get set up there as well. Diversity is indeed good. 

When I got started people were still unsure if any kind of internet business was really viable. Business owners debated if being online was even worth the trouble. Full Time Artists - founded in 1991, Google - founded in 1998.

This is a GOOGLE ORGANIC SEARCH issue. Not a pintrest or facebook issue. 

@ets 
:) "raseone" actually IS a registered trademark. Raseone® would be the appropriate format I believe. I rarely disagree with anything you say & you're very polite. 

@Ashley
True there are some recovery stories out there. As I said I found a few. They seem very rare & partial. The point was to ask the user of this forum to share. First hand, second, hand, mythical, detailed, vague... whatever you got. For the benefit of those losing hope.

Re: Please post your recovery stories here. ets 8/23/13 2:18 PM
Unfortunately I have constant work to do protecting my copyrights & trademarks as I have for years. It sucks.

I sympathize. I reckon I now spend about four weeks of my time a year chasing copyright infringement and filing DMCAs...
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Luke :) 8/23/13 9:11 PM
I did - I recovered.

I am a therapist - and for several years my site was a 5 page site - focusing on Hawaiian massage that I was qualified in a the time. 
I was at #1 or 2 for many years for many variances of massage type queries in Sydney Australia.

I got there by just optimising each of the 5 pages - with no back links (well no relevant ones any way)

Last year I upgraded the site and changed the focus to Energy Work / Counselling - which I acquired qualification for last year. At the same time I upgraded I got hacked by a russian site that inserted redirects in my .htaccess file.

Thats how I found my way to this forum.

It took a month for the russian spam to fall out of cache. I used the URL removal tool which may have delayed the process.
It took 3-4 months to learn all about thin content pages, and the level of authority required to rank for a site as a therapist. Like insurance, and google+ verified business location.

All is well now - I have top ten rankings , many 2nd page rankings and various long tail rankings. All with less than 30 backlinks , that are basically junk that a 6 year old site can accumulate.

It takes time - and so long as each and every page is balanced , worthy of being indexed , and you are as honest about your business to Google as you are to the tax man - you will rank.

And while I wasnt ranking I printed pamphlets , and delivered them my self - in the process learnt the most effective way to market my business. 

This forum really helped me learn - recovery stories are like good restaurant reviews - when its good you just enjoy it and get on with it - when its bad you want everyone to know about it
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/24/13 8:49 AM
Thanks Luke! I really Appreciate that.

I'm gonna get red arrows for this but...  it sounds more like you recovered from having your website hacked as opposed to recovering from Panda or some algorithmic penalty. I gather that you site was suffering algorithmically, not from a manual penalty & I understand... however being hacked is a bit of a different situation. 

The extensive, 2 year, 3 site work we have done to try to get back on track has so far produced only negative results. A lot of sites are in similar situations. 

Before Panda our bounce rate was in the low 30% range. Ever since it has been flirting with 50%. The remaining portion of google traffic yields a disproportionately small number of sales & contacts. Our demographic has skewed to far flung lands like Indonesia. Our expansions & upgrades are met with immediate, further demotion from google. I've never had a site behave this way in 16 years.

This "GRMSP" stuff is pretty scary. As I said somewhere before it implies a sort of purgatory between a manual & algorithmic penalty where one might see unexpected, confusing, counterintuitive, reactions to their work from google.

If I am going to continue publishing my work in this way as I have done since the 90's I'll need to know that I'm not arguing with a google robot that's purposely screwing with my mind. The overall impression is that they've been holding my hear under water & waiting for me to stop struggling.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. StevieD_Web 8/24/13 9:50 AM
>Before Panda our bounce rate was in the low 30% range. Ever since it has been flirting with 50%

whoopee crapola



A meaningful bounce rate analysis can not be performed without knowing the visitor's interaction with the site AND the visitor's interaction with Google after leaving the site

You might be able to measure the visitor's interaction with your site, but you lack the critical information about the visitor's followup interactions with Google.  Conversely Google only knows the interaction of the visitor relative to Google and nothing about the visitor's interaction with the site.  Google can deduce information about your site based upon the behavior of the visitor but you can not do the same.

Therefore as a site owner, chasing Bounce rate is about as meaningful as chasing down the visitor intent using 10 horribly misspelled long tail words to find your site.


Want an example of incomplete information.

A query "Apple Tree" lands on your site.

(your site sells Apple Trees)

the person visits for a short period of time, visits the single page and leaves.

What can you deduce from the visit?  Very little.  Maybe information about the duration of the visit relative to other visitors would be beneficial.  Other than that, you are pretty much hanging out in mid air without a safety net.


But for Google, the deduction and analysis has only started.


A) the person does not return to Google search for 1 hour.  Google's assumption is the person was happy with the query that found your site and you satisfied the visitor's needs.

B) the person returns immediately to Google search and performs a query for Pizza.  Google's assumption is the person was happy with results of the query and your site satisfied their needs.

C) the person returns immediately to Google search and performs a query for Diseases Causing Apple Trees to Die.  Google's assumption is the person reached your site, discovered some more key words to refine their query and in general terms your site performed a valuable service to the visitor.


All of those are bounce events as measured by Google (and reported in Google Analytics) and none of them are bad.... yet you are chasing yourself around in a circle trying to determine whether the visitor was bad to your site but you can not because you lack complete information.


D)  The person returns immediately to Google search and performs a query for Apple Trees but adds the -YourSiteName to refine the query.  That my friend, is a bad bounce.  And you know NOTHING about the bad bounce because you lack complete information.


Bottom line, Bounce rate is noise and in general terms you don't need to worry about bounce unless people really don't like you.


as to your increase in bounce rate the increase might reflect a position improvement as a result of a simple change (ie consolidating information into a single page) that caused visitors to hit only a single page  OR the increase could be result of visitors seeking free rather than paid products.   Again, you don't know for sure because you lack the followup information that only Google possess.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/24/13 10:02 AM
@Stevie

That's a very long winded way of stating something that I think most webmasters are well aware of. Nobody is claiming that bounce rate means any particular thing in and of itself. Nobody is "chasing anything around in a circle". I was merely pointing out that not only the quantity of our traffic declined but the QUALITY also declined sharply.

For example: 
If every 1,000 visitors once produced 4 sales & now it takes 2,000 visitors to get 1 sale ... that's worse.
If every 1,000 visitors once produced 10 emails and now it produces 1 ... that's worse.

I was merely stating a fact & despite what you say, a huge jump in bounce rate is a clear negative sign & in our case it is reinforced by a number of other negative signs.


Re: Please post your recovery stories here. StevieD_Web 8/24/13 10:18 AM
your transaction rates (visitors/emails/sales) is the statistic that you need to chase and publish in discussions as it is more meaningful

I would content that a big chunk of your bouncers have always wanted free stuff.... unfortunately the free loaders are only going to increase... which means your raw bounce numbers are only going to increase.



Re: Please post your recovery stories here. webado 8/24/13 10:19 AM
Well if before 1000 visitors got you 4 sales and now 1000 visitors get you 1 sale, what does that mean? Simple, it means more of the visitors are not interested in buying. Either the product as they see it on your site doesn't satisfy them or they find it's too expensive. This is entirely based on your site's content. The visitors already got there. It's up to you to grab them if you can and convert them into buyers... if you can.

If you have so many visitors, what content on your site resulted in it being indexed so as to give them the impression that this may be what they seek only to discover after the fact that that's not it?

With every day that passes there are more and more websites that rise to the top (so they are found) offering the same, similar or better products. Competition at work.

Getting the visitor to your site is the first crucial step. Making them buy anything is the hardest thing but it's entirely up to you to achieve that. This is where Google has no influence at all.

Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/24/13 12:52 PM
@webado @Stevie D

You seem obsessed with finding reasons to blame the site for changes that are clearly beyonds it's control. You're speaking to me as if this is the first I've heard about to turning visitors into customers. 

Are you even reading what I'm saying?

The trouble I am having is with sudden & seemingly permanent drops in traffic from google... plain and simple. I am not having trouble running my site or engaging my customers.

Some Evidence:
In the recent past, before I merged the 2 sites I added some content to my .net site. There was an immediate 400% increase in Google search impressions & a corresponding increase in traffic. This was a huge jump it only brought me to about 25% of the Google traffic that I had before the trash-canning. Sales & emails increased as you would expect, in proportion to the increase in traffic. This was a good thing. It was the first time Google had seemed to respond to my updates in a positive way since april 2011.

A month later, time came to finally merge my 2 font sites. I did so. I moved the .net - to the .com. It went fine. Thanks to a kick in the pants and some help in this forum from ets & webado I also did some other upgrades while I was at it. Shorter htaccess files, redirect non-www to www, redirected all the index.php files to the / location & stripped unwanted query strings... 

Sales & emails went down to virtually nothing after the move and all the recently gained Google impressions evaporated. It's been a month since the move and it's not improved. Business for this site is currently at the lowest point it has ever been.

I'm not sure why I have to make a case for this. It seems pretty obvious. Your acting as if some sudden change in human behavior or is to blame.  As if all of a sudden one day everyone just decided to dislike our material or our site. 

It is very obvious and provable that changes at Google cause these shifts in quantity & quality of traffic.

If Google has shifted my presence in their search in a way that it is reaching the wrong people then Google is making a mistake. The right people are out there. They always have been & they still are. If not then we would not have done so well before & the sites who've replaced us with pirate copies of my work would not be doing so well now.

You mention "price" (again) We offer material from free to infinitely expensive. Our offering covers all bases from what a child might want to what a huge firm might want. Again, we set the price of our own material & no one has any of it any cheaper other than the pirates who give it away for free. You're assuming that I do not understand the always changing cultural trends etc. that drive supply & demand & suggesting that demand for my material simply evaporated one day. You are wrong.

I in fact have little real competition. The artists who would compete with me in this niche often choose to work with me instead. By the way, those guys (my real competition) have a presence online too & google is not showing them much love anymore either. 

The sites we're are outranked by are a combination of redundant aggregator sites & software pirates. THAT is the problem.  


Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Luke :) 8/24/13 3:27 PM
I get that you have had a long battle.

But maybe you should look at it as battle 2.0 now - because everything is different now that you have all sites joined into one.

So this new phase is only 5 or so weeks old - but your still seeing it as 2 years old

As has been mentioned its realistic to expect a 1-3 month settling time once the new single arrangement is complete

With my site I won't be able to prove it , but I'm certain it was panda - as my now top ten rankings were held out to 300 (page 30)
And the crawl rate jumped with the last announced panda update earlier this year. And the rank returned . Il never know

Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/25/13 8:39 AM
Hey Luke. Thanks for the encouragement. Stop being so reasonable. I'm trying to have a temper tantrum! I can't look at this as round #2 but if I squint my eyes really hard I might be able to see it as round #6 or so.

I was just reading through some of this again and I really can't believe where this thread went. Those last few posts from the TCs display a pretty serious misunderstanding or denial of what's happening here. Frankly the injection of a bunch of incorrect assumption about my business & my industry is not going to help anyone. Why would anyone take the time to make up a bunch of crap like that when they know damn well they have no idea what they're talking about?  

It really points very clearly to the need for certain things in this forum such as the examples of recovery that I requested with the original post or some pinned threads that summarize best practices for the novices or the stubborn or the old-school.  

Even more it points to a clear need for more action & clarity from Google. Why not provide us with:

1.) A tool in WMT that tells us what Google thinks of a particular back-link or of our overall link profile..
2.) A meaningful response to DMCA, Reported Images & Webspam Reports
3.) A meaningful Google presence in this forum.
4.) Some explanation of why sites get trash-canned so abruptly now rather than rising & falling naturally as they always did 
5.) Some assurance that an unduly persecuted site can get back in Google's good graces.
6.) Answers about the GRMSP

Don't they understand that "spammers" are more tech savvy than your average publisher? 

Do they realize the massive "bait & switch" that they've pulled?

Do they not realize what they could do to a person who is trying to save their business by purposely screwing with their head as implied by the GRMSP? 

Re: Please post your recovery stories here. lcurr 8/25/13 11:32 AM
>> 2.) A meaningful response to DMCA, Reported Images & Webspam Reports

What response to your DMCA takedown are you looking for?

What do you mean by reported images and webspam reports?

Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/25/13 1:25 PM
When I file a DMCA it needs to be acted on & not not ignored.

If I report images as being in violation of my copyrights I expect to stop seeing them in SERPs.

If my site is being reported as web spam WMT should tell me.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Lysis 8/25/13 1:31 PM
Why would Google tell you that you've been reported? That's dumb.  You know how many rant threads we get from people claiming someone is ranking after they've reported the site as spam and it's usually being taken care of by the algorithm and either A) the user is looking at personalized results cuz they are too dumb to realize that if they obsess over a competitor and keep clicking the site after doing a query, it will show up higher for them or B) the query is a garbage query that no one uses or it's spammy, so no one cares.  

If Google sent out messages about being reported, they'd be inundated with whiners complaining that they've been reported. It would suck for them and for us.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Luke :) 8/25/13 1:45 PM
In general , those who have worked with site optimisation for some time, and specifically with Google Search , have come to view the process in a philosophical manor. And on the other hand its often seen that we dance around responses where there is someone doing their very best to blame the big G for their harsh treatment. There is simply no point to it.

Google is a very complicated bit of software , but so are other software languages , and when working with other software languages , and you find a bug , or a new level of coding that you are stuck with , you look for work arounds , patches fixes and solutions .... generally you dont go on an epic tirade in a dismal effort to get your way with a tantrum.

If WMT gave direct feedback on spam , the spammers would just setup 100 websites and tweak them , until they got direct data on what was spam and what wasnt. Its a tricky situation , so instead they built this forum where you have been given advice that would have cost you $$$$ out in the physical world.

Read between the lines a little I guess, and the process wont seem so black and white.

The only part I can sympathise with is the stolen fonts. But even that is blurred , because your site isnt ranking and the fonts niche is riddled with spam. But when you have a ranking site , you may find that changes. But you wont know until it does
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. lcurr 8/25/13 3:52 PM
>> When I file a DMCA it needs to be acted on & not not ignored.
>> If I report images as being in violation of my copyrights I expect to stop seeing them in SERPs.

And your earlier statement:
>>The sites we're are outranked by are a combination of redundant aggregator sites & software pirates. THAT is the problem.

--------------------------
I want to clarify this because it is a sticking point.

Understand that RANKING in the SERPs is a different matter than PIRACY and DMCAs.

Where RANKING is concerned, you need to ask yourself why your site is not ranking in the SERPs. 

For example, why is your site not #1 for the keyword "RaseOne font" over and above the font aggregator sites. Many in the forum have provided you with suggestions about what you can do to improve your ranking. As you know, Google's ranking algorithms take into account content, links, user metrics plus the other 200+ factors that Google has come up with.

--------------------------

Now for the DMCA and take down requests. Note that without the safe harbor provisions of the DMCA, Google and all other internet intermediaries may be liable by default for direct and secondary copyright infringements. The safe harbor provisions places LIMITS on Google's liabilities. 

In order for Google to be protected under the provisions, it must comply with certain requirements. If Google receives a take down notice under the DMCA provisions, it MUST comply with the notice and in its transparency report, Google claims that it complies with 97% of take down notices. The ones that it does NOT act on are notices that do not comply with the requirements under the DMCA.

You need to know that there have been many false claims of copyright infringements and abuse of the DMCA take down process. Despite this fact, Google's obligation is to adhere to DMCA take down notices.

All of the above means that if Google did not comply with your take down notice, you need to ask whether you have complied with the requirements. For example, looking again at the search results for the keyword "RaseOne font":

Result #1: http://www.fontpalace.com/font-download/RaseOne+Fill/ - not in your DMCA notice (unless you have filed another one)
Result #2: http://www.dafont.com/raseone-full-time-artists.d3100 - no RaseOne font available and implied license or an affiliate since you have your ad on the page
Result #4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85pH0v0zCp4 - a tutorial on how to download your font
Result #5: http://fontscore.com/fonts/RaseOne-Original_37669.html - not in your DMCA notice
Result #6: http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/highground/rase-one/ - appears to be your affiliate
Result #8: http://www.azfonts.net/load_font/raseone.html - appears to be your affiliate
Result #10: http://www.robotswillkill.com/graffiti/showgraff.php?artist_id=7215 - no idea what this is. Is this your site??

So out of the 10 results on page 1, results #1 and #5 appear to be pirated copies of your font.

One of the algorithm updates that Google implemented last year was the "Piracy" update where sites that have received a lot of VALID takedown requests may be demoted by Google:

Whether the update applies to the font aggregator sites is something again, you need to ask yourself. Objectively, I would say that the font aggregator sites would be carrying legitimate free fonts so without a DMCA notice, those sites will not be demoted in the search results by the "Pirate" update.

---------------------------

The funny thing about it all is that it is a fact that most copyright owners prefer to file a takedown with Google rather than with the service provider itself. Your angst for the RaseOne font for example should be directed against the font aggregators themselves: 


Have you tried this route?

Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Ben Griffiths 8/26/13 4:41 AM
Oh, by the way, the site I worked for in 2007 dropped massively (we're talking ALWAYS having been P1 for terms with tens-of-millions monthly searches and a site that predated Google by around 4 years), around 8 weeks after a huge redesign. Cost me some sleep but we bounced back (stronger) after around 6 weeks. Obviously well before Panda and Penguin (and the site would have and did pass both animals with flying colours, thankyouverymuch) but a recovery, and a drop for reasons which will be the same for many of today's "penalised" sites.


Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/26/13 1:25 PM
Sorry guys, this has become a pointless, circular argument since there is just way too much specific info that you are all unaware of. I'm not really willing the entertain this dance around the issue any more. 

This thread has decayed into a very long attempt to justify the way Google is treating MY site. That was never the point. I have other threads for that.

@Ben Hof - Of course you were able to recover from a traffic drop BEFORE Panda! I've done the same thing many times before. The reason you were able to recover is because your drop in traffic was "natural" & no one was stepping on your head when you tried to regain your rank.

@Icurr - Thank you for that lesson on IP law & Google DMCAs but unfortunately I've become a bit of an expert on the issue over the years & none of that is news to me or to anyone with a dog in that fight.


Re: Please post your recovery stories here. StevieD_Web 8/26/13 9:48 PM


Re: Please post your recovery stories here. StevieD_Web 8/26/13 9:55 PM


Re: Please post your recovery stories here. StevieD_Web 8/26/13 9:56 PM
not everybody had been tanked by an algorithm and yes, peeps can recover but sometimes it is an ugly drawn-out mess.


Re: Please post your recovery stories here. lcurr 8/27/13 12:09 AM
>> @Icurr - Thank you for that lesson on IP law & Google DMCAs but unfortunately I've become a bit of an expert on the issue over the years & none of that is news to me or to anyone with a dog in that fight.

At least I gave you the refresher course you seem to need, hmm??

:)

Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 8/27/13 4:35 PM
Sorry Icurr. At this point we just mail letters directly to Googles lawyers.

I'll still be using the web form but it's just not getting the point across. Too many repeat offenders, same pages popping back up, denied orders, orders that get no response.... etc. It's a huge job & IMO Google is not doing their fair share. 

I have another thread about piracy if you wanted to drop some knowledge there. http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!mydiscussions/webmasters/2OVeRI-Amp4

This thread was supposed to be a place to collect info about actual recovery from one of these death blows. My goal is not to regain my rank by suing all the sites ahead of me until they go out of business.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Lysis 8/27/13 5:30 PM
oooh lawyers! Pleece add me to the glorious litsigation lits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!
lcurr 8/27/13 6:14 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. lcurr 8/27/13 6:56 PM
Just one final point.

Where recovery is concerned, I believe it's always been the case that many sites find it hard to recover from Penguin - this is nothing new. Even Matt Cutts has previously mentioned that a site owner may need to start a new site:


As a business owner, you need to make a decision. Give it 6 months, 9 months etc and if things do not improve, then move on and go to plan B, start a new site or target B2B customers and so on. That's your call.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. RaseOne 9/3/13 1:29 PM
So, you finally acknowledge the apparent truth that Google can just put a site out of business permanently? What gives them the right  to persecute a specific site or business or group or individual in that way & go on raking in the adsense dollars from the sites who scrape our material. Who exactly do they think they are helping by doing that?

I have no specific evidence that Penguin or Panda is responsible other than a couple of corresponding dates. Since I never did any link building & I have a quality site with quality content, since I think my current ranking is a mistake of some sort I see any persecution of my site by these algo changes to be an error on Googles part. 

Sure I can just chalk my life's work up as a loss and move on. That's where I've been living for 2 years now. I've long since had to focus on other areas to stay in business. I'm not here for that type of advice. I've been doing this for a decade and a half. I know how to run a business. 

The problem I and many others are having is a problem with mistreatment in Google organic search. It's strange that the frequent posters & TCs in this forum with talk about everything under the sun other than the actual issue. GOOGLE ORGANIC SEARCH is the issue at hand.

Are the days of a fair & truthful Google search just over now that Google is personalizing each individuals results? 

Why do you seem to be okay with this? Do you like your access to information being limited & skewed in whatever direction the Google robot thinks is best for you?  

I've matched the traffic graphs from some of my own sites with a few others and there is a very obvious correlation in dates. Something bigger than Penguin or Panda is at work. Google itself said that these animals would only effect about 2% of websites. Either they were waaaaay off or another force is weighing down a lot of sites. 

This forum is about the only place on earth where people are in denial of this notion.


Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Lysis 9/3/13 1:45 PM
Or maybe we just like to do stuff instead of whine about it.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Ben Griffiths 9/3/13 1:47 PM
I thank Google every day for the users it decides to send to my sites. If they suddenly went away I'd be confused but not angry. They're not my users.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Luke :) 9/3/13 1:48 PM
2% of hundreds of millions of sites is a lot of sites. But in the big picture its a small ammount.

Join us in the bigger picture and give up on the pointless protest
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Lysis 9/3/13 1:56 PM
As Phil used to say... it's just foam in the ocean.
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. lcurr 9/3/13 3:28 PM
@RaseOne, I think I've posted enough so that you already know my strong views on the matter, including the one I deleted, which I did since it was too OT. 

Your two statements which I've quoted below really highlight the key difference in opinion between us:

>> The problem I and many others are having is a problem with mistreatment in Google organic search.

I don't see any entitlement to claim mistreatment, really, I don't. It's a computer based algorithm - it's got no feelings. You either work with the algorithm or work against it. Google has given us enough clues already so that site owners should be able get it right the first time round.

>> So, you finally acknowledge the apparent truth that Google can just put a site out of business permanently?

YOU view the site as a business in itself. I don'tTo me, it's not the site that is the business as it is merely a platform for marketing and promoting the business, online or otherwise. It's laughable for a business owner to think that a site can be considered a business.

Therein lies the difference and with that, I'm out.

Re: Please post your recovery stories here. Ashley 9/3/13 3:37 PM
Stop with the logic Icurr, you might earn yourself a hug. 
Re: Please post your recovery stories here. lcurr 9/3/13 3:50 PM

From me to you :)


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