Chinese moated fortresses

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Chinese moated fortresses CL1ffjumper 7/31/05 12:14 PM
I don't know what it is, but it looks like a fortress. ocool
Anyone know what I am looking at?
Re: Chinese moated fortresses Hill 11/20/13 9:39 PM
I don't know what it is, but there are more around. Check the attachment. A,B,and C are very similar. D looks like it might have been the same but has fallen into disrepair. Interesting find. And welcome. smile

After almost 5 years I have visited this thread again because there are changes in the imagery. I have struck out some text that will no longer make sense and removed attachments. There is an updated placemark folder containing all of my placemarks in one location in my more recent response.
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“Only when the last tree has died, the last river has been poisoned, and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.” Cree Proverb

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Re: Chinese moated fortresses flb 7/31/05 1:49 PM
There's another very similar 11 miles north west. They certainly appear to be some kind of fortress arrangement with artificial moat. It's a very isolated spot to live.
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When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.

Leonardo da Vinci
Re: Chinese moated fortresses Katamari 7/31/05 4:23 PM
My Respect to anyone who can find the historical meaning/story behind these intrigueing find. Must be from another time, theres a more than several around the area, maybe enemy fortreses that once engaged in battle?
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I search, therefore i am. Hello, Before you post up a new placemark, check it isnt already been posted by a: ticking the box- b:searching the forums, as it might take time for it to appear on the map Look after the BBS!, dont clog up the same placemark unless you have something new to add to it! (like a map)
Re: Chinese moated fortresses ctitanic 7/31/05 6:13 PM
what ever it's is huge: 500x700 mts.
Re: Chinese moated fortresses CL1ffjumper 8/1/05 10:29 AM
I found a vague artical about Russia and Mongolia-with a mention of "North China"

In north China there are some tombs of the Hsiung-nu and Erlanhuhou fortress in Ordos. Possibly there are others sites in north China bat not enough the information.

website:

http://www.silk-road.com/artl/minyaev1.shtml
Re: Chinese moated fortresses changeup 8/22/05 12:22 PM
You know what? Actually you guess it right. They are fortresses with moats. However, they are not really that ancient. They were built around 1960's to 1970's, by Grand General Lin Biao, the chief of Chinese Millitary back then. The main purpose is to defend a possible Russian invasion. There are totally nine of them, each of which has adequate firearm and sufficient water supply. These constructions were abandoned in late 1970's and now some of them are developed into resorts.
Re: Chinese moated fortresses Akebono 8/22/05 3:02 PM
Thanks changeup for the very informative post.
Re: Chinese moated fortresses Sojourner 8/22/05 3:17 PM
Yes thanks changeup.
Well done but I tought that ther were 13 of them not 9?

Regards
Sojourner
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quo Vadimus
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Cheers Sojourner Quo Vadimus
Re: Chinese moated fortresses Radiculus 10/15/05 3:45 PM


Could it be this one?
Re: Chinese moated fortresses Hill 12/22/05 8:05 PM
Our membership has grown much since the original post on these locations. Read the whole thread in flat mode before commenting. Changeup 's explanation seems feasible, but I'd like to know more about these mysterious places if anyone has additional local information - or even photos.
Re: Chinese moated fortresses andrebrannan 5/22/06 6:59 AM
An interesting site there are many such sites in the area mainly following the line of the river. They might be fortifications the Chinese may have been trying to control the water supply to counter the Hsuing-nu. But it is on the large side there is a very similar one at 40 25 44.51N 99 50 57.98E are they something to do the the Chinese space program.
Re: Chinese moated fortresses Hill 11/20/13 9:40 PM
The latest imagery reveals the southernmost one (labeled "D") , which showed/shows signs of modification. There are tunnel entrances leading into the artificial "mountain". This seems to back up the description of their being recent underground fortresses or storage. "D" seems to show signs of earth-moving. I still don't have an article or web reference to it.

After almost 5 years I have visited this thread again because there are changes in the imagery. I have struck out some text that will no longer make sense and removed attachments. There is an updated placemark folder containing all of my placemarks in one location in my more recent response.
_________________________
Click the images to view two important videos about our only home.
A Pale Blue Dot HOME

“Only when the last tree has died, the last river has been poisoned, and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.” Cree Proverb

My avatar Mr. Raven posed for me at the Tower of London.
Re: Chinese moated fortresses Hill 11/20/13 9:42 PM
I'm calling this site "E". Recent improved resolution shows it in high resolution. Old building foundations surrounding it mean it isn't brand new, but it seems like there is recent re-working. Tunnels enter the central mound at its base. There are lots of shapes of unknown purpose surrounding the structure. It's well worth a close look.


After almost 5 years I have visited this thread again because there are changes in the imagery. I have struck out some text that will no longer make sense and removed attachments. There is an updated placemark folder containing all of my placemarks in one location in my more recent response.
_________________________
Click the images to view two important videos about our only home.
A Pale Blue Dot HOME

“Only when the last tree has died, the last river has been poisoned, and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.” Cree Proverb

My avatar Mr. Raven posed for me at the Tower of London.
Re: Chinese moated fortresses sasroodkapje 7/18/06 2:42 PM
wat about this...

matrix
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wwww.paukepauke.nl
Re: Chinese moated fortresses Hill 11/20/13 9:41 PM
These features appear to be part of the defensive structure of the moat. I'm only speculating as to their purpose, but I think my guesses are accurate. There is a lot more around than I have marked. New construction is beginning to hide the old structures. It appears this fort may have actually been attacked from the a western direction. Or maybe it has just been used for war games. Lots of room for speculation here.


After almost 5 years I have visited this thread again because there are changes in the imagery. I have struck out some text that will no longer make sense and removed attachments. There is an updated placemark folder containing all of my placemarks in one location in my more recent response.
_________________________
Click the images to view two important videos about our only home.
A Pale Blue Dot HOME

“Only when the last tree has died, the last river has been poisoned, and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.” Cree Proverb

My avatar Mr. Raven posed for me at the Tower of London.
Re: Chinese moated fortresses Nick_Grayson 12/2/06 12:00 AM
Here are some more strange things in the Gobi, to the East. I found 65 sites within 100 square miles, all very remote. No idea what they are.

Link:

http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=704440&page=0&vc=#Post704440

Enjoy!
Re: Chinese moated fortresses Hill 4/28/15 5:16 PM
About five years ago member CL1ffjumper found an unusual structure surrounded by a moat in North-central China. I have so far found seven others. Each of these fortresses has many similar features. I still don't know their history, but now that the imagery has improved greatly I've redone the placemark folder and created some screen captures (in case the imagery changes again). I'm hoping someone can lend add some more detailed information to this thread.

















So far the most likely answer to the origin of these fortifications is from Changeup. But I have been able to find no verification yet. Perhaps it's just a matter of using the right key words.

Originally Posted By: changeup
You know what? Actually you guess it right. They are fortresses with moats. However, they are not really that ancient. They were built around 1960's to 1970's, by Grand General Lin Biao, the chief of Chinese Millitary back then. The main purpose is to defend a possible Russian invasion. There are totally nine of them, each of which has adequate firearm and sufficient water supply. These constructions were abandoned in late 1970's and now some of them are developed into resorts.


But I still have not independently found anything linking the general to these locations. My search has so far found 8 of the 9 locations.


_________________________
Click the images to view two important videos about our only home.
A Pale Blue Dot HOME

“Only when the last tree has died, the last river has been poisoned, and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.” Cree Proverb

My avatar Mr. Raven posed for me at the Tower of London.
Re: Chinese moated fortresses Hill 4/8/10 10:42 PM
I spent some time now in search of other fortresses. Though I have found none to match the original structures, I have found other sites that probably were active about the same time. But a search of the area near the river and adjacent to the rail line turned up other sites - eleven at the moment.



Though none of them had all of the components of the complete fortresses, most had at least a few; all shared the common characteristic of the original buildings being reduced to open foundations. Most of these eleven sites are within or near Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center, China's oldest and most active missile and satellite launch sites. There has been much construction in this area and chances are some old sites have been completely destroyed.
Re: Chinese moated fortresses Gman101 4/16/10 8:48 PM
Wow the surrounding area looks like the remains of an ancient city. Some one wanted a secure area and have gone to great lengths to make it. Awesome find, wonder what they are using it for now?
Re: Chinese moated fortresses figgers 7/5/10 8:23 PM
I have found another source that verified the fortresses were used to defend the Soviet army during the 60s to 70s, when USSR were hostile to China.

Ejina is the county where the fortresses are located.
See my brief translation to the section that related to the fortresses (or Er Hao Shan, "Mountain the second")

It's a blog (in Chinese) from someone used to live near that area:

http://hi.baidu.com/fish0w0camel/blog/item/fc18783fdcd3193b70cf6c95.html

å¿ƒé£˜é¢ æµŽçº³
(Title Translation: Ejina is always in my heart)


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Here comes the explanation to the fortress "Er Hao Shan" or "Mountain the second"
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Brief Translation:

Everyone knows the first mountain of China is Mt. Everest, but where is the second mountain of China? It's just in Ejina county. Thanks to the existence of "Moutain the second" during the period when Russia and China fell foul of each o ther, without it, the beautiful diversifolious poplar trees were gonna be pulled out and plundered by the Russians. It's just kidding. However, back to the age when "Mountain the second" being built, the construction work was really huge: Thousands of heavy trucks queued in Ejina, in and out, day and nights. The gas cans used for those trucks piled up was even higher than the mountain (must be viewed by the author). Now the kids living near the mountain must have grown up already. We wish "Mountain the second" can still bring luck to Ejina county as well as the old poplar trees.


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Re: Chinese moated fortresses figgers 7/5/10 8:36 PM
And check this out:

http://su-27-china1.blog.163.com/blog/static/31706920103641820607/

The fortresses with moat can be found even near Beijing, the captial of China. The blog author said they were all military works built in the time when China and Russia were in bad relations (1960 - 1970), but most of them now abandoned or used as warehouses.
Re: Chinese moated fortresses Hill 4/28/15 5:17 PM
Thanks for posting this figgers. Now we have much more information about the origin of these defensive fortresses. This Google translate version isn't that good but helps a lot.

I have placed these fortresses in a folder with annotated observations. You can download the locations from the attachment below.

Directly below are screen captures of the forts located in eastern China. Some of these have undergone some significant changes over the past twenty years, as can be seen by viewing them with the "historical imagery" feature.















It seems possible there are yet more versions of these moated fortresses with moat in other parts of China. let me know if you find any more.
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Re: Chinese moated fortresses Hill 7/9/10 10:07 AM
In my continuing search for details about these forts, I found the following Google books result.



This paragraph is from China Hands: Nine Decades of Adventure, Espionage, and Diplomacy in Asia
by James R. Lilley and Jeffrey Lilley



The forts in this collection have mounds that are about 500 yards long, not 100. But otherwise the description seems close. Shuang Cheng Zi is another name for Jiuquan, China's large western launch complex.
Re: Chinese moated fortresses nanoman 8/2/11 8:44 AM
It is really hard to find so much document about this fortress.
It is interesting even for me, a Chinese:)
The fortresses show us a picture of Sino-SU relationship changing in 60-70s, 20th century.
Re: Chinese moated fortresses heypolice25 8/13/11 11:33 PM
I see ,It's very interest .
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Re: Chinese moated fortresses Hill 4/1/12 2:46 PM
figgers mentions this link in his post above. It has been edited and expanded and shows even more information. It is well worth a read if you are interested in these fortresses..

Images of two new moated fortresses revealed by the link.



  




It, in turn, links to a blog which has a tour within one of these man-made mountain areas (left image above) in the eastern part of China..



The link with the revised collection of eastern forts is attached below as a response to this post.



(unknown) 4/1/12 12:01 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Chinese moated fortresses Hill 4/1/12 2:59 PM

On Sunday, April 1, 2012 9:58:14 AM UTC-7, Hill wrote:
figgers mentions this link in his post above. It has been edited and expanded and shows even more information. It is well worth a read if you are interested in these fortresses..

Images of two new moated fortresses revealed by the link.

The link contains the following text. While the translation is somewhat imprecise, I hope you can figure out what the authors intended:

 The majority of these fortress has been abandoned, only a few remain as a warehouse, and tourist attractions.

 Fact, more than the edge of the desert, the Beijing-Tianjin region is also distributed a number of similar military fortifications are these man-made mountain and above the Lin Biao and whimsical masterpiece in 1971 after the death of Lin Biao barrier Mountain Project "to stop.

 

         Of course, a different discourse, said that the artificial hill built by Mao Zedong's instructions, but asked the man-made mountain is indeed the Vice Chairman Lin.

-------------------------------------------- According to Mao's instructions, China the army began to heap leading to the plains of Mongolia built just like a huge bunkerMan-made mountain, in order to resist the Soviet tanks. 
these man-made mountain design Each 20 to 40 meters high, positive and 250 to 400 meters wide, the depth of $ 20 to $ 20 m astronomical sum of money voted into the stone and earth from the distance shipped, in the mountains to establish a steel and concrete fortifications. who have seen these mountain people, including former U.S. Secretary of Defense James Schlesinger (James R. Schlesinger,) thought that rely on this several solitary The artificial hill to block the Soviet tanks in-depth, wide front of attack impossible. later this works let the matter rest.

                                                                                                                                    From the "Mao: The Unknown Story"

 

    Su Yu know their suspicions and doubts are justified, inspection, he further feel metaphysics, idealism and extreme leftist ideas, have a great impact and destruction in the military field, reflected not only in the field of military thinking, but also fallen victim to the national defense construction national defense projects. He saw a regionEngineering of man-made mountain, the seven man-made mountain, placed closer to a place away from the cutting-edge, away from the rear of relying on, the garrison direction is not right. He ever more worried about, the state has spent a large amount of capital, the majority of commanders and fighters of painstaking labor, but this artificial mountain project in terms of strategic or tactical point of view, and placement are wrong. The idea of ​​the formation of these errors tend to come from above. He believes that metaphysics, idealism is the serious hazards of the military and national defense construction, should arouse the central attaches great importance.

                                                                                                                                       From Su Yu Biography


 In May 1967, the Corps of Engineers hosted in Beijing convened heap Hill Engineering Conference, study and formulate the "man-made mountain engineering tactics technical requirements (draft)", 
  according to this "request", the artificial mountain is to defend the coastal mountains, to defend the plain transport hub and strategic points, to defend the backbone of the fortifications of the big cities, mainly for long-range artillery trial, and every mountain tube of 40-50 km. Therefore, the distance between the two artificial hill can not be too close to the cross Lee gunfire. Construction of connection between mountains fortifications, configuration, small and medium artillery. Artificial mountain and connected fortifications rely on each other to connect the fortifications to cover man-made mountain. The artificial hill also assume the role of artillery observation and command posts, once the enemy crossed, but also as an artillery fortress to stay behind enemy lines.   An artificial hill to configure a garrison camp, including a long-range artillery battery (4-6 guns); 1-2 garrison and even (with light anti-tank weapons, antiaircraft weapons, and other infantry weapons); wartime enter an artillery command structure.The total strength of about 300-500 people.   Artificial mountain Yamagata diamond unimodal or bimodal oval at altitudes of 20-40 m, the front width of 250-400 m, 120-220 m depth. Tunnel axis length of 600-1000 m, Keng Daokou 6-10. The fortifications requirements to 500-1000 pounds of blasting cartridge able to withstand a direct hit. Internal requirements of the natural ventilation, electricity and water supply.

 
(unknown) 4/1/12 3:18 PM <This message has been deleted.>
(unknown) 4/1/12 3:23 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Chinese moated fortresses Hill 4/28/15 5:13 PM
I have redone the placemark folder and updated details. You can follow further investigation of these fortresses HERE  in the New Google Earth Community Forums
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