First, thanks for sharing your voice in the forum. We always want to create a space for users to share their opinions and feedback with us and we appreciate the passion that you all have for Gmail.
As a Googler who worked on the new compose, I want to reiterate that we have taken a lot of feedback into account throughout our time working on these new features. This has been a feature that has seen several iterations since it's initial launch over a year ago, and we have made major changes from conversations with our users such as the Full-screen view and pop-out replying as well as smaller tweaks.
At this time, we will not be going back to the old compose format. Your feedback is being aggregated from the forum as well as our other feedback channels (such as the Feedback link under the gear icon in Gmail). We monitor trends in feedback across these channels, and your voices are added to that discussion. We also weigh this feedback with other features we are developing and bugs we are fixing to determine what we can to take action on to create the best user experience. At this time, we don't have anything to report about the specific features and issues you are discussing here. We'll be sure to post any future updates here.
subscribing to this thread
Carl can you add one last post to PT 3 with a link here ?
EDIT never mind Div has i see now
Subscribing.
BTW, the last thread was the second "part 3". It should have been the actual Part 4, and this is actually Part 5.
BTW, the last thread was the second "part 3". It should have been the actual Part 4, and this is actually Part 5.
On Monday, November 18, 2013 4:57:41 PM UTC-5, Carl Sligh wrote:As a Googler who worked on the new compose, I want to reiterate that we have taken a lot of feedback into account throughout our time working on these new features. This has been a feature that has seen several iterations since it's initial launch over a year ago, and we have made major changes from conversations with our users such as the Full-screen view and pop-out replying as well as smaller tweaks.
As a Googler who has worked on the new Compse, you failed to take into account the views of users who were happy with what they had and as a result have alienated those users. Many have already left the service, which means those millions of users will never be heard from again. Naturally, this means less negative feedback, and Google continues to think they are doing a good thing by trying to emulate AppleSoft because there is less negative feedback. Naturally, my continued refusal to use the piece of trash you call an "improved interface" means I cannot directly submit feedback, and therefore, you need to account for the fact that I AM submitting my feedback here explaining that your new layout is trash and overly inferior to the old layout.
Unfortunately, the old Compose format WAS the full-screen format. The fact that you are still calling this monstrosity a full-screen interface is mind-boggling. I am going to continue to happily use Thunderbird as my link to Gmail because it has a format more like the commonly accepted Outlook format and allows me to log into multiple accounts simultaneously rather than having to log out to switch accounts. Additionally, I am notified every time a new message comes in rather than having to change accounts to see if I got a reply to a message in the alternate account. Convenience speaks volumes.
On Monday, November 18, 2013 4:57:41 PM UTC-5, Carl Sligh wrote:At this time, we will not be going back to the old compose format. Your feedback is being aggregated from the forum as well as our other feedback channels (such as the Feedback link under the gear icon in Gmail). We monitor trends in feedback across these channels, and your voices are added to that discussion. We also weigh this feedback with other features we are developing and bugs we are fixing to determine what we can to take action on to create the best user experience. At this time, we don't have anything to report about the specific features and issues you are discussing here. We'll be sure to post any future updates here.
Re: C-Man's previous question I would take part in a discussion to improve New Compose.
Through this forum we have identified key improvements that would make a world of difference to the user experience.
Let's talk.
Through this forum we have identified key improvements that would make a world of difference to the user experience.
Let's talk.
First, to tag on to this new, fifth Forum (numbering was based on added forums and started after the original Forum overflowed, so we are now past 4,000 posts and climbing)
Second, how ridiculous is is to have a 1,000-post limit? It is a royal PITA to go back and try to find anything from the previous forums, and incredibly easy to miss the creation of yet another new forum. Does this somehow represent Google's current level of technical sophistication? In a claimed universe of half a billion users, you can't support more than 1,000 posts in a Forum?
Third, to Carl Sligh, thanks for your comments and your participation. The (apparent) presence of Google personnel has been truly underwhelming, and any step in a positive direction is welcome. In the long run, of course, it is only meaningful if it has some actual impact, and despite your comments, I see no evidence of that so far, an utter incompetence in user engagement that goes far beyond this particular fiasco.
And fourth, I must agree with Cyclone. I have already abandoned Google as a search engine and map resource, I find g+ to be an absolute abomination (with the fact that it is thrust upon me incessantly whenever I access any Google product making it all the more repulsive to me), and I long ago deleted Chrome from my computer. For GMail & YouTube, there are "content" issues that have prevented my complete departure. With YouTube, I go there for the content, but the g+ nonsense now prevents me from taking part in any conversations there --so I come, I watch, I leave. With GMail, the issue is that I have 5,000-plus contacts, and weaning them all from GMail is a task I am deferring in hopes that some sort of sensible / workable interface can be reinstated or added afresh. I find that the "Old Compose" option on Firefox is adequate for now, but if the truly awful interface(s) that you have foisted upon us in GMail remain(s) the only Google-supported option(s), then I will permanently migrate away. More than 2,500 of my contacts are now on LinkedIn, including virtually all of the really active ones, so I'm less concerned about "losing" anyone permanently, but I do need a method to communicate regularly, and as of now, GMail doesn't cut it.
Finally, I think I have figured out concisely how to summarize my view of the Modern Google: If Scott Adams was just starting out today, he would have no problem drawing his inspiration for "Dilbert" entirely from Google
I've already used Google and Gmail as inspiration for at least two of my own mashups - which are basically user redos of the third frame of the strip.
On Monday, November 18, 2013 6:25:59 PM UTC-5, Joe Anonymous wrote:Finally, I think I have figured out concisely how to summarize my view of the Modern Google: If Scott Adams was just starting out today, he would have no problem drawing his inspiration for "Dilbert" entirely from Google
Can someone please link me to the right spot to post regarding Youtube and give the TCs there a heads-up that there is a serious, serious problem with Google+ and Youtube communicating? I will be posting this there as it's not related to Gmail, but I really want to know this feedback is being read and unsderstood by someone at Google. Basically, I loaded a video today that was working perfectly, then I went to comment on the video and was forced to verify my password. From that moment onwards, I have not been able to watch any of a half-a-dozen videos (and virtually all of them by definition) at all - including the one that was working perfectly before.
THIS is an example of how Google+ is ruining not only Youtube, but all Google services including Gmail. Google is ruining the best video content provider on the Internet. And they need to stop.
THIS is an example of how Google+ is ruining not only Youtube, but all Google services including Gmail. Google is ruining the best video content provider on the Internet. And they need to stop.
Can someone please link me to the right spot to post regarding Youtube and give the TCs there a heads-up that there is a serious, serious problem with Google+ and Youtube communicating?
So, to sum it up, my biggest complains about the new format are:
- The names of the fields that disappear when we type something in (subject, to...)
- The extra clicks steps almost everywhere to access features
- The "menus" that appear on click or hovering only, it's annoying for the eyes
- The attachement system where you can't see the names of the files you are attaching... and with the new drive thingy, you can no longer see the names of the files you are getting (which you could formerly) unless you hover the thing.
- The reply feature has a way too small window,
- The reply window hides the former message, and places the cursor BEFORE the citation (at least provide an option to have the message displayed and the cursor placed after), also provide a way to remove te citation without extra clicks
- The reply window makes it very hard to change the subject (yeah it's possible but with so many clicks, even when you remember where to look)
- The top black navigation bar disappeared but we did not gain much vertical space in the process, how so?
I'm probbaly forgetting some other ones. Oh, and while I'm at it... one suggestion :
- Add an optional real conversation view, with threaded tree so it's possible to tell exactly which message is answered instead of the current chronological mess listing the answers without logic.
On Monday, November 18, 2013 4:57:41 PM UTC-5, Carl Sligh wrote:
I want to reiterate that we have taken a lot of feedback into account throughout our time working on these new features. This has been a feature that has seen several iterations since it's initial launch over a year ago, and we have made major changes from conversations with our users such as the Full-screen view and pop-out replying as well as smaller tweaks.
But you've listended to NONE of it, because here we are on PART 4 of this thread and Gmail still has the shitty interface instead of the old good, WORKING one, that didn't take Hotkeys, Key+Clicks and other time wasting arsey things.
At this time, we will not be going back to the old compose format. Your feedback is being aggregated from the forum as well as our other feedback channels (such as the Feedback link under the gear icon in Gmail). We monitor trends in feedback across these channels, and your voices are added to that discussion. We also weigh this feedback with other features we are developing and bugs we are fixing to determine what we can to take action on to create the best user experience.
BFD, seriously.
This is the ONLY thing I have to do with Google anymore.
I only come here in hopes that you arrogant people in your ivory tower come to your collective senses and realize just how much your USERS HATE the new Compose along with being FORCED to use your CRAPPY and CONVOLUTED, SWEAGE DUMP SITE, Known as Google+.
My GOD, google+ is the epitome of godawful design, no wonder you have to force it on everybody so you can falsely claim that "Google+ is the Number #1 fastest growing social network"
Do me a favor Carl, go to youtube and type in the search term "Google+ sucks", (There's even a catchy song done by a girl in the UK with a Ukele called F*** You Google+), then sit back and watch the Pages and Pages of videos of Youtube Users venting complete RAGE at Google, for completely RUINING Youtube by ramming that "Ebola of Social Networks" on everybody.
Now, Sign on to Google+ and do a search of "Google+ sucks", also notice that there are a BUNCH of groups on Google+ called F***Google+, F***Google, GooglePlusSucks, GoogleSucks etc etc etc
Seriously, you people at google REALLY REALLY need to listen to your users instead of treating them as "Data Cattle"
I have uninstalled Chrome, I use BING and Duck-Duck-Go for my searches now, I use Thunderbird to deal with the left over mail at my now Unused Gmail Account, I don't sign in to my Youtube account anymore since my original one was Deleted thanks to the CONSTANT HARASSMENT to change my Username and Connect it to a Google+ account I NEVER WANTED.
I'm also in the market for a new smartphone and Tablet, and I will be making sure that NEITHER have anything to do with google, especially since a friend of mine found out her google phone automatically uploads pictures to her google+ account that she HAD TO HAVE.
I am also proactively showing friends, family, and also Faculty and students in the Medical program I'm in, USEABLE, and WORKING alternatives to everything Google.
I guess all we can do is get out our lawn chairs and popcorn and watch the biggest Internet FAIL in the History of the Internet, (I'll be buying some Champagne for THAT event)
C Man:
Thanks for your response, but I'm not sure what you mean by "delete it from other devices? Do you mean delete all cookies on every computer I ever used my gmail account on?
I don't use Circles and hangouts, wouldn't even know how to find them. Is it possible that those were created automatically wihout my wanting to create them?
Thanks again for your help. It's much appreciated.
Thanks for your response, but I'm not sure what you mean by "delete it from other devices? Do you mean delete all cookies on every computer I ever used my gmail account on?
I don't use Circles and hangouts, wouldn't even know how to find them. Is it possible that those were created automatically wihout my wanting to create them?
Thanks again for your help. It's much appreciated.
Cyclone GU: Thanks for your response. I deleted all e-mails from that former contact as well as the contact itself (I have to do that several times, but clearing the cookie enabled me to finally make it stick.
I am guessing it is still in Chat, somehow as there is no way for me to get rid of that contact in chat (the Help tells me to delete the contact, which is already done and yet the contact is still in Chat).
I am guessing it is still in Chat, somehow as there is no way for me to get rid of that contact in chat (the Help tells me to delete the contact, which is already done and yet the contact is still in Chat).
C Man: On Old Compose being available as the HTML, I will have to disagree. The Firefox add-on is a much better approximation to what i originally did, which was to not use the New Compose.
To me it always looks like engineers want to force "clients" to use their new "better" design as it justifies their pay. I'm always amazed that a company as large as Google seems not to do any meaningful marketing research (not the "tell me my new product is great" kind).
To me it always looks like engineers want to force "clients" to use their new "better" design as it justifies their pay. I'm always amazed that a company as large as Google seems not to do any meaningful marketing research (not the "tell me my new product is great" kind).
wdurham: Thanks for the anecdote,. but this is a false excuse. I had no idea at that time such a "hangout" was even possible. I didn't even realize there was a forum like this one.
You are assuming that people have time to learn all the intricacies of trying to communicate with a company that takes great steps not to get feedback from its users.
Saying a "meeting" was organized that nobody knew about so nobody came so the will be no more such meetings is quite strange logic to me...
You are assuming that people have time to learn all the intricacies of trying to communicate with a company that takes great steps not to get feedback from its users.
Saying a "meeting" was organized that nobody knew about so nobody came so the will be no more such meetings is quite strange logic to me...
Carl: Thanks for joining the discussion, but I have to say I am once again disappointed.
You give us the same response as usual : "your feedback is appreciated and taken into consideration, except when we disagree with your feedback that there was no need for a downgrade (I mean upgrade... yes... that's what I mean)".
Seriously. In two paragraphs, you're telling us you're listening, but will take no account of it. A politician wouldn't do any better... :(
Do you really not see how this looks and sounds like hubris out of control?
On Monday, November 18, 2013 1:57:41 PM UTC-8, Carl Sligh wrote:
You give us the same response as usual : "your feedback is appreciated and taken into consideration, except when we disagree with your feedback that there was no need for a downgrade (I mean upgrade... yes... that's what I mean)".
Seriously. In two paragraphs, you're telling us you're listening, but will take no account of it. A politician wouldn't do any better... :(
Do you really not see how this looks and sounds like hubris out of control?
On Monday, November 18, 2013 1:57:41 PM UTC-8, Carl Sligh wrote:
...As a Googler who worked on the new compose, I want to reiterate that we have taken a lot of feedback into account throughout our time working on these new features. This has been a feature that has seen several iterations since it's initial launch over a year ago, and we have made major changes from conversations with our users such as the Full-screen view and pop-out replying as well as smaller tweaks.At this time, we will not be going back to the old compose format. .....
Prompted by the iGoogle debacle and the New Compose debacle, I am now a Bing search user (they even give me rewards!!!) and a myYahoo user.
How this is helpful to Google is baffling to me.
How this is helpful to Google is baffling to me.
I don't like the clumsyness of forwarding an email! Most of us, probably all of us like to clean up an email before forwarding it........this includes getting rid of all the Fwds: in the subject line. Now we have to make 2 extra clicks in order to do that. Why not keep it simple?
I, like others also send messages Bcc......why can't the click for that and cc be right there instead of way over on the right? KISS!
Is there actually any way we can get concerns such as this to the powers that be at Google???.........Nail
I, like others also send messages Bcc......why can't the click for that and cc be right there instead of way over on the right? KISS!
Is there actually any way we can get concerns such as this to the powers that be at Google???.........Nail
I would have liked to have been involved with the 2011 UI Hangout, but at the time the only device I had that would do a Google Hangout was my phone, and it only had a backward-facing camera. I never volunteered rather than trying to set up a location with enough lighting (and possibly buying a webcam) that would work for the hour or being nothing but a mysterious voice.
It would be nice to get occasional participation from one of the involved folks on the forums. It doesn't have to be as big a back and forth as you see on many official video game forums, but a discussion on the merits of certain decisions would be nice. Plus nobody needs a webcam or needs to be available at one specific time to participate here. :)
I agree. Someone from the Gmail team should simply step into ths forum, choose a suggestion/feedback from any one of these 4 threads, and take a moment to explain WHY our suggestion is not being considered.
For example ... we NEED a static FROM line. I'd like to be able to verify AT A SIMPLE GLANCE which email address I'm sending from. Could someone from the Gmail team explain WHY this isn't being considered?
okay. Next.
On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 2:51:35 PM UTC-6, Parody wrote:
For example ... we NEED a static FROM line. I'd like to be able to verify AT A SIMPLE GLANCE which email address I'm sending from. Could someone from the Gmail team explain WHY this isn't being considered?
okay. Next.
On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 2:51:35 PM UTC-6, Parody wrote:
I would have liked to be involved with the 2011 UI Hangout, but at the time the only device I had that would do a Google Hangout was my phone, and it only had a backward-facing camera. I never volunteered rather than trying to set up a location with enough lighting (and possibly buying a webcam) that would work for the hour or being nothing but a mysterious voice.It would be nice to get occasional participation from one of the involved folks on the forums. It doesn't have to be as big a back and forth as you see on many official video game forums, but a discussion on the merits of certain decisions would be nice. Plus nobody needs a webcam or needs to be available at one specific time to participate here. :)
Anyone purporting to support a user base of nearly half a billion souls and to provide products that cover all compatible combinations of screen / processor / user input devices should support at least the 4 interfaces shown graphically below, i.e., the four possible combinations of large screen vs. small screen (desktop monitors & full-size laptops vs. tablets & phones) and precision input devices vs. approximate input devices (keyboard & mouse vs. fingers & thumbs). Ideally, the software would automatically detect the device and offer the most likely interface, but in any case the user should be able to switch to any of them. From the diagram below, #1 and #4 are the most common combos, but I can think of plenty of examples where #2 and #3 would be appropriate. My interpretation of this current Google fiasco is that they have abandoned the "1's" (about 80% of my Google interaction time) in favor of the trendy "4's" (about 20% of my Google interaction time). I don't care what anyone says or how many workarounds there are or how much Google says that they have listened to our input, the current native GMail options provide no acceptable interface for combination #1. Those of us who spend a lot of time in mode #1 have become especially frustrated because Google abandoned an acceptable (though not perfect) interface and replaced it with the abomination we have now. And the more we get told to try this tweak or that add-on or simply to agree that the new interface is wonderful, the more frustrated we become. In a world of billions of users and thousands of different hardware choices for accessing Google's products, is it too much to ask for 4 broad categories to be supported adequately?
It's called "Putting all their eggs in one basket"
On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 7:12:32 PM UTC-5, Joe Anonymous wrote:Anyone purporting to support a user base of nearly half a billion souls and to provide products that cover all compatible combinations of screen / processor / user input devices should support at least the 4 interfaces shown graphically below, i.e., the four possible combinations of large screen vs. small screen (desktop monitors & full-size laptops vs. tablets & phones) and precision input devices vs. approximate input devices (keyboard & mouse vs. fingers & thumbs). Ideally, the software would automatically detect the device and offer the most likely interface, but in any case the user should be able to switch to any of them. From the diagram below, #
Abandoning regular users in favor of "trendy" users is how Mac lost the market share of the
Apple II. It got great reviews and an adoring press but it lost out on most of the PC business.
Being "trendy" has its costs...
Apple II. It got great reviews and an adoring press but it lost out on most of the PC business.
Being "trendy" has its costs...
It should be noted that the label on the basket reads "Apple".
Also, this whole one login, all of Google thing is bullshyt. Why is it bullshyt? I am logged in here, but I am NOT logged in on Youtube. What gives? (Granted, I would just be unable to watch videos, so it's all for the best.)
Also, this whole one login, all of Google thing is bullshyt. Why is it bullshyt? I am logged in here, but I am NOT logged in on Youtube. What gives? (Granted, I would just be unable to watch videos, so it's all for the best.)
On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 8:58:30 PM UTC-5, Herp wrote:It's called "Putting all their eggs in one basket
I, for one, would LOVE to read an actual explanation as to why we can't have the Classic look and feel of Gmail any longer... I mean, something that isn't "we know better so you'd better get used to it" since it's all the feedback we got from Google at this point.
I don't understand how they can get off saying "we're listening to feedback" when they decided not to listen to the feedback most people gave them, which was to go back to one...
I don't understand how they can get off saying "we're listening to feedback" when they decided not to listen to the feedback most people gave them, which was to go back to one...
Hi Carl! It's good to see someone who actually worked on the new Compose show up here. As you're well aware, numerous posters have enumerated the issues they face with the new compose, so I won't reiterate those here.
Perhaps you will be kind AND courageous enough to address the following points. Although many users have asked, Jason Cornwell has not yet shown the necessary courage to discuss with the users here.
Perhaps you will be kind AND courageous enough to address the following points. Although many users have asked, Jason Cornwell has not yet shown the necessary courage to discuss with the users here.
- What exactly, if anything, does the new Compose do better than its predecessor, esp. in functional terms?
- Last summer, my 75 y.o. father noticed I was using the regular Compose. He asked me how he could get back to the old Compose. Why? Because he couldn't even see the default (tiny) window of the new Compose. Once I showed him how to revert, he asked me what sort of idiot comes up with such dumb idea and which fool allowed this stupid idea to proceed. Perhaps you could provide the names, so I can communicate those to him.
This tells me two things - one, usability testing at Gmail is badly broken or non existent. The simple fact that the new compose would be very hard for some to use should have been apparent in design, at the very least in usability testing.
Secondly, the mechanism to revert wasn't obvious to all the users. Hence, they continued with the new Compose. That skews the relevant data. In my father's case, he wasn't able to respond to emails nor send any until I showed him how to revert to the old Compose.
So, why wasn't this issue detected during usability testing? - Why is your (Gmail team's) definition of "full screen" different than that used by the rest of the world? The pop-out feature available with the old compose was truly full screen. The new one definitely isn't.
- The Gmail team may be reading the feedback. However, we don't see major changes as a result. You made the statement that we won't be going back to the old compose. That, honestly, sounds rather arrogant. It sounds like you're saying "We, the Gmail team, don't care what the users want. We'll give them what we want them to have". So, when will your changes actually reflect the major changes users desire?
However, I must admit your statement definitely isn't as arrogant and asinine as "We wanted to give users permission to write shorter emails". Jason Cornwell deserves the "credit" for that one.
Personally speaking, the Gmail UX quality has dropped significantly in the last two years. Long term users, such as myself, have started to look for other email providers. That isn't exactly a roaring success.
Rather than use the new Compose, I was using the HTML version. After I found oldcompose.com, I no longer have to use the ridiculous new compose.
Now let's see you have the courage to respond to the four points I enumerated above.
อยู่บานก็เบือไปเทียวเส้งเพราะเพือนมันเฮีย
Sometimes, we try to judge whether one contribution is better than another, but let's just call this one a Thai.
Level Seven, the "official" explanation has been that supporting multiple UIs, testing, etc. They do have a point. However, it isn't all that complicated to support a couple of UIs. Been there, done that.
Frankly, given the responses I've seen thus far, I don't believe that the Gmail folks are being entirely truthful, about different points involving Gmail UI. Until there's a directive from higher ups at Google and/or replacing Gmail UX "designers", I don't anticipate any meaningful changes. Why? I've seen several complaints about the recent changes to Gmail UI on Twitter, direct messages to Jason Cornwell. He either doesn't respond or tries (unsuccessfully) to defend said changes.
Frankly, given the responses I've seen thus far, I don't believe that the Gmail folks are being entirely truthful, about different points involving Gmail UI. Until there's a directive from higher ups at Google and/or replacing Gmail UX "designers", I don't anticipate any meaningful changes. Why? I've seen several complaints about the recent changes to Gmail UI on Twitter, direct messages to Jason Cornwell. He either doesn't respond or tries (unsuccessfully) to defend said changes.
Amol, LOVED your reply to Carl BTW.
Very true, and honestly, would google even NEED to support the old compose if they just restored it as an option and just left it alone, as is, and working?
I'm sure that they've left the HTML version as an option and haven't touched the code to that version EVER, so why not do the same with the original compose.
While I love the Compose.com plugin for firefox, that allows me to keep using gmail, it also which doesn't send the message to google that they've screwed up big time.
So, I'm opting for them seeing their customer base dwindle.
Google doesn't care about US, they only care about the advertising revenue that we make for them, we're just a resource, and at one time, we were treated nicely, as a resource, now we're being treated like Data Cattle, and instead of letting us roam 'free range' by giving us a useable interface, instead they're locking us up like laying hens, dairy cows, or slaughterhouse animals in small cages, so they can milk as much advertising off of us as possible.
There is nothing but hate for google+ on youtube and google+, and google STILL isn't listening, there's nothing but hate for the new compose on twitter, youtube and google+ and google STILL isn't listening, instead they spout some numbers that they never show Hard Data for and tell us the numbers are in favor of the new compose, the youtube/google+ integration and the gmail/google+ integration, even though tons of videos on youtube and posts on google+ say otherwise.
Also, the way google has skewed the comment section on youtube, only the comments that say "Google+ is DOUBLEPLUSGOOD!" bubble up to the top, the ones that say "I hate google+!" msyteriously sink to the bottom.
Very true, and honestly, would google even NEED to support the old compose if they just restored it as an option and just left it alone, as is, and working?
I'm sure that they've left the HTML version as an option and haven't touched the code to that version EVER, so why not do the same with the original compose.
While I love the Compose.com plugin for firefox, that allows me to keep using gmail, it also which doesn't send the message to google that they've screwed up big time.
So, I'm opting for them seeing their customer base dwindle.
Google doesn't care about US, they only care about the advertising revenue that we make for them, we're just a resource, and at one time, we were treated nicely, as a resource, now we're being treated like Data Cattle, and instead of letting us roam 'free range' by giving us a useable interface, instead they're locking us up like laying hens, dairy cows, or slaughterhouse animals in small cages, so they can milk as much advertising off of us as possible.
There is nothing but hate for google+ on youtube and google+, and google STILL isn't listening, there's nothing but hate for the new compose on twitter, youtube and google+ and google STILL isn't listening, instead they spout some numbers that they never show Hard Data for and tell us the numbers are in favor of the new compose, the youtube/google+ integration and the gmail/google+ integration, even though tons of videos on youtube and posts on google+ say otherwise.
Also, the way google has skewed the comment section on youtube, only the comments that say "Google+ is DOUBLEPLUSGOOD!" bubble up to the top, the ones that say "I hate google+!" msyteriously sink to the bottom.
On Friday, November 29, 2013 1:35:45 AM UTC-5, amol.c.khedkar wrote:However, it isn't all that complicated to support a couple of UIs. Been there, done that.
Frankly, given the responses I've seen thus far, I don't believe that the Gmail folks are being entirely truthful, about different points involving Gmail UI. Until there's a directive from higher ups at Google and/or replacing Gmail UX "designers", I don't anticipate any meaningful changes. Why? I've seen several complaints about the recent changes to Gmail UI on Twitter, direct messages to Jason Cornwell. He either doesn't respond or tries (unsuccessfully) to defend said changes.
Excellent read. Google employees confess the worst things about working at Google
Many of the engineers are arrogant.
"Unfortunately, in spite of the common belief, I think the average level of Google engineers is mediocre. With a lot of arrogance, too. Everybody believes he (males dominate) is better than his neighbor. So it is really hard to discuss any issue unless it is your friend you are talking to. Objective discussions are pretty rare, since everybody's territorial, and not interested in opinions of other people unless those people are Important Gods."
Middle management is mediocre.
"I'd say the relentless daily mediocre thinking of middle management types who are completely focused on metrics to the exclusion of all other factors. They don't want to rock the boat, they don't know how to inspire their workforce, and they rely far too much on the Google name and reputation to do that for them."
Google may understand engineering, but not design.
"There is not enough focus on product and visual design. This has led to many aborted/semi-successful products, like Wave, Google Video, Buzz, Dodgeball, Orkut, Knol, and Friend Connect. There is probably too much focus on pure engineering."
The new update to gmail absolutely ruined what used to be a simple,user friendly email.
As an "older" user, I need an interface that is clear and uncomplicated. The new compose feature is all WRONG! The changes are in the wrong direction. Smaller, more complicated.
As an "older" user, I need an interface that is clear and uncomplicated. The new compose feature is all WRONG! The changes are in the wrong direction. Smaller, more complicated.
As a writer and author, I need to be able to attach articles (WORD docs) anytime, anywhere to submit my copy. I cannot do this with the GMAIL App. I urgently need to find ANOTHER EMAIL service that meets my needs. I almost never send photos. Many of my contacts do not have FACEBOOK, TWITTER, or use some of the new social media.
The GMAIL update is USELESS for my purposes. I don't suppose you care, but Google has just left the door open for a company that does care.
Thanks for the response, Amol. What do they mean by "multiple UIs, testing, etc..." It's Greek to me. :)
About Jason Cornwell, I think he is entirely vested in being a "genius" who is "right" and will resist to his last breath any criticism of his "brilliant design"... It's a problem that's endemic in large organizations. People become vested in projects, whether they're needed or not and whether they work or not and a lot of their time is spent defending their project (and thus job) rather than improving it.
About Jason Cornwell, I think he is entirely vested in being a "genius" who is "right" and will resist to his last breath any criticism of his "brilliant design"... It's a problem that's endemic in large organizations. People become vested in projects, whether they're needed or not and whether they work or not and a lot of their time is spent defending their project (and thus job) rather than improving it.
On Thursday, November 28, 2013 10:35:45 PM UTC-8, amol.c.khedkar wrote:Level Seven, the "official" explanation has been that supporting multiple UIs, testing, etc. They do have a point. However, it isn't all that complicated to support a couple of UIs. Been there, done that.
Frankly, given the responses I've seen thus far, I don't believe that the Gmail folks are being entirely truthful, about different points involving Gmail UI. Until there's a directive from higher ups at Google and/or replacing Gmail UX "designers", I don't anticipate any meaningful changes. Why? I've seen several complaints about the recent changes to Gmail UI on Twitter, direct messages to Jason Cornwell. He either doesn't respond or tries (unsuccessfully) to defend said changes.
Herp: I think it harkens back to the fact that significant parts of google are vested in Google+ being "great". If those same people were moved to another project, they'd probably admit its failings because they wouldn't be scared of being fired any longer.
Sofarsogood: Have you considered using Thunderbird as a UI? I used it to send files before someone made an add-on to Firefox "restoring" Gmail to its Old Compose state.
Are you using Firefox? If so there is a great add-on that'll solve your problem.
Are you using Firefox? If so there is a great add-on that'll solve your problem.
sofarsogood1, you may want to check out Zoho. Apart from email, there's a full suite of office apps.
I've said this several times. Over the last 2-3 years, the Gmail UI has deteriorated badly. The UX is absolutely poor. The whole mess started with the "new look".
IMHO, the time this is going to change is when someone much higher up than these so-called UX "designers", Gmail "product managers", Gmail "front end engineering directors", etc., realizes Gmail is deteriorating rapidly and mandates a change!
Sadly, none of these UX "designers" have the courage to show up here, explain their changes AND answer users concerns. Instead, they send hapless Google employees as reps and the TCs.
I, for one, would really like to see someone from the actual Gmail design team, preferable the one who gave us lowly users "permission to write shorter emails", show up here and explain exactly how the new compose is functionally better than the predecessor. From the perspective of both a user and a former software engineer, I don't see any improvement whatsoever. To the best of my knowledge, Jason Cornwell has not answered this question at all anywhere. Perhaps that, in itself, is a very clear answer!
You're exactly correct. A simple truth in business - if a company does not provide what the customers want, a competitor definitely will! GM found this out the very hard way. Once upon a time, GM thought they were invincible. Now the world knows otherwise.
"I don't suppose you care, but Google has just left the door open for a company that does care."
I've said this several times. Over the last 2-3 years, the Gmail UI has deteriorated badly. The UX is absolutely poor. The whole mess started with the "new look".
IMHO, the time this is going to change is when someone much higher up than these so-called UX "designers", Gmail "product managers", Gmail "front end engineering directors", etc., realizes Gmail is deteriorating rapidly and mandates a change!
Sadly, none of these UX "designers" have the courage to show up here, explain their changes AND answer users concerns. Instead, they send hapless Google employees as reps and the TCs.
I, for one, would really like to see someone from the actual Gmail design team, preferable the one who gave us lowly users "permission to write shorter emails", show up here and explain exactly how the new compose is functionally better than the predecessor. From the perspective of both a user and a former software engineer, I don't see any improvement whatsoever. To the best of my knowledge, Jason Cornwell has not answered this question at all anywhere. Perhaps that, in itself, is a very clear answer!
He hangs around on Twitter to give the illusion that he actually give a rat's behind, people will tell him a problem with gmail, then he'll asks "what isn't working?" or "What problems are you having?" knowing full well that NOBODY can give a helpful response when they're limited to 145 characters.
But it let's him look all helpful and caring in meaningless 145 character tweets
But it let's him look all helpful and caring in meaningless 145 character tweets
On Saturday, November 30, 2013 9:37:53 PM UTC-5, amol.c.khedkar wrote:Jason Cornwell has not answered this question at all anywhere. Perhaps that, in itself, is a very clear answer!
Just a note, Herp - it's 140 characters.
For those wondering, BTW, here is Jason's Twitter. It's nice to know his most recent advice is on which video game to buy.
For those wondering, BTW, here is Jason's Twitter. It's nice to know his most recent advice is on which video game to buy.
Level Seven, I'll try to explain that "multiple UIs" stuff.
UI = User Interface. That's how a user accesses the functionality built into an application program. That's how the typical user "sees" an app.
So, now we have the Classic UI (look) and the current UI (New Look). Let's say each UI supports exactly the same set of functions, i.e. the actions a user can perform. When new functions are added or existing ones are modified, both UIs need to be modified and tested. If some code that executes behind the scenes in response to user actions is modified, then both code bases (Classic UI & current UI) have to be appropriately modified and subsequently tested. That does increase the development and testing effort.
Having said that, testing two codes isn't all that complicated. I can understand the reluctance if there were 5-6 code bases installed. However, as has been remarked here, it rather looks like the UX "designers" consider themselves geniuses and they're more concerned with "improving" their brilliant designs, rather than accept their creations haven't been exactly roaring successes. They'll get away with it as long as the higher powers-that-be don't realize how badly these UX "designers" are alienating users.
UI = User Interface. That's how a user accesses the functionality built into an application program. That's how the typical user "sees" an app.
So, now we have the Classic UI (look) and the current UI (New Look). Let's say each UI supports exactly the same set of functions, i.e. the actions a user can perform. When new functions are added or existing ones are modified, both UIs need to be modified and tested. If some code that executes behind the scenes in response to user actions is modified, then both code bases (Classic UI & current UI) have to be appropriately modified and subsequently tested. That does increase the development and testing effort.
Having said that, testing two codes isn't all that complicated. I can understand the reluctance if there were 5-6 code bases installed. However, as has been remarked here, it rather looks like the UX "designers" consider themselves geniuses and they're more concerned with "improving" their brilliant designs, rather than accept their creations haven't been exactly roaring successes. They'll get away with it as long as the higher powers-that-be don't realize how badly these UX "designers" are alienating users.
Lost track of this thread unfortunately. For whatever reason the requested updates have not been coming to me.
Agreed (yet again) with Ronna on the static "from" line. Also the to line still combines all the addresses in a very unreadable and dangerous format -- To, CC and BCC must be separated and always visible.
The attachments are still at the bottom, and still don't show enough of the name to differentiate between attachments with similar names.
And, of course, there is the new attachment method on the incoming mail that is truly non-functional.
I agree with another comment from above (several, in fact) that states it is very clear nothing that has been suggested is even being looked at or listened to.
On Tuesday, 26 November 2013 16:23:29 UTC-5, ronna wrote:
Agreed (yet again) with Ronna on the static "from" line. Also the to line still combines all the addresses in a very unreadable and dangerous format -- To, CC and BCC must be separated and always visible.
The attachments are still at the bottom, and still don't show enough of the name to differentiate between attachments with similar names.
And, of course, there is the new attachment method on the incoming mail that is truly non-functional.
I agree with another comment from above (several, in fact) that states it is very clear nothing that has been suggested is even being looked at or listened to.
On Tuesday, 26 November 2013 16:23:29 UTC-5, ronna wrote:
I agree. Someone from the Gmail team should simply step into ths forum, choose a suggestion/feedback from any one of these 4 threads, and take a moment to explain WHY our suggestion is not being considered.
For example ... we NEED a static FROM line. I'd like to be able to verify AT A SIMPLE GLANCE which email address I'm sending from. Could someone from the Gmail team explain WHY this isn't being considered?
okay. Next.
On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 2:51:35 PM UTC-6, Parody wrote:I would have liked to be involved with the 2011 UI Hangout, but at the time the only device I had that would do a Google Hangout was my phone, and it only had a backward-facing camera. I never volunteered rather than trying to set up a location with enough lighting (and possibly buying a webcam) that would work for the hour or being nothing but a mysterious voice.It would be nice to get occasional participation from one of the involved folks on the forums. It doesn't have to be as big a back and forth as you see on many official video game forums, but a discussion on the merits of certain decisions would be nice. Plus nobody needs a webcam or needs to be available at one specific time to participate here. :)
I quite like the image you included -- and wonder if it is simple, clean and clear enough for the people at Google to actually understand it.
And, yes, I also agree that the largest percentage of users, at least those who do more than send badly spelled five word texts, fall into sector 1
On Tuesday, 26 November 2013 19:12:32 UTC-5, Joe Anonymous wrote:
And, yes, I also agree that the largest percentage of users, at least those who do more than send badly spelled five word texts, fall into sector 1
On Tuesday, 26 November 2013 19:12:32 UTC-5, Joe Anonymous wrote:
Anyone purporting to support a user base of nearly half a billion souls and to provide products that cover all compatible combinations of screen / processor / user input devices should support at least the 4 interfaces shown graphically below, i.e., the four possible combinations of large screen vs. small screen (desktop monitors & full-size laptops vs. tablets & phones) and precision input devices vs. approximate input devices (keyboard & mouse vs. fingers & thumbs). Ideally, the software would automatically detect the device and offer the most likely interface, but in any case the user should be able to switch to any of them. From the diagram below, #1 and #4 are the most common combos, but I can think of plenty of examples where #2 and #3 would be appropriate. My interpretation of this current Google fiasco is that they have abandoned the "1's" (about 80% of my Google interaction time) in favor of the trendy "4's" (about 20% of my Google interaction time). I don't care what anyone says or how many workarounds there are or how much Google says that they have listened to our input, the current native GMail options provide no acceptable interface for combination #1. Those of us who spend a lot of time in mode #1 have become especially frustrated because Google abandoned an acceptable (though not perfect) interface and replaced it with the abomination we have now. And the more we get told to try this tweak or that add-on or simply to agree that the new interface is wonderful, the more frustrated we become. In a world of billions of users and thousands of different hardware choices for accessing Google's products, is it too much to ask for 4 broad categories to be supported adequately?
I see that THIS google thread where google once again assured us that they were "listening" is a raging success, much like the last thread titled "We're Listening!" was.
They really need to add SOUNDS to these forums, The sound of Crickets chirping would be apropos
They really need to add SOUNDS to these forums, The sound of Crickets chirping would be apropos
exactly. Give us a reason WHY google is not considering specific requests for changes ... and not just "because I'm the mom, and I said so, that's why."
On Wednesday, December 4, 2013 1:27:02 PM UTC-6, Herp wrote:I see that THIS google thread where google once again assured us that they were "listening" is a raging success, much like the last thread titled "We're Listening!" was.
They really need to add SOUNDS to these forums, The sound of Crickets chirping would be apropos
At this time, we will not be going back to the old compose format. Your feedback is being aggregated from the forum as well as our other feedback channels (such as the Feedback link under the gear icon in Gmail). We monitor trends in feedback across these channels, and your voices are added to that discussion. We also weigh this feedback with other features we are developing and bugs we are fixing to determine what we can to take action on to create the best user experience. At this time, we don't have anything to report about the specific features and issues you are discussing here. We'll be sure to post any future updates here.
In other words we should drop dead or submit to the awful UI because Google doesn't care how their users actually USE Google products? The complaints about asinine changes to Maps, groups, Gmail, and now Youtube should be a HINT that you are failing miserably at listening to the user base when it comes to maintaining essential UI configurations and product features.
What they failed to mention here is, now that they've completely bunged up the comment section on YouTube, by mating it with that UI Nightmare/Disaster called Google+, the ONLY comments that bubble to the top are "GOOGLE IS DOUBLEPLUSGOOD!"
Your feedback is being aggregated from the forum as well as our other feedback channels (such as the Feedback link under the gear icon in Gmail). We monitor trends in feedback across these channels, and your voices are added to that discussion.
This is what I have found infuriating from the start: Google in its very rare communications with us is saying they're listening, but just don't be saying what we don't like...
There is an easy (and ultra-cheap) fix to all the problems. I, and many others, have suggested it countless times: GO BACK TO THE OLD COMPOSE.
But all we get from Google is "we are listening to you but won't go back to the Old Compose"...
Sorry but that means they're not serious about listening and are just saying that because they think it's good PR...
Meanwhile I used yet another Amazon gift card I got by using Bing Search... Thanks Google for making me look elsewhere. :)
There is an easy (and ultra-cheap) fix to all the problems. I, and many others, have suggested it countless times: GO BACK TO THE OLD COMPOSE.
But all we get from Google is "we are listening to you but won't go back to the Old Compose"...
Sorry but that means they're not serious about listening and are just saying that because they think it's good PR...
Meanwhile I used yet another Amazon gift card I got by using Bing Search... Thanks Google for making me look elsewhere. :)
On Wednesday, December 4, 2013 12:11:58 PM UTC-8, Needs help! wrote:At this time, we will not be going back to the old compose format. Your feedback is being aggregated from the forum as well as our other feedback channels (such as the Feedback link under the gear icon in Gmail). We monitor trends in feedback across these channels, and your voices are added to that discussion. We also weigh this feedback with other features we are developing and bugs we are fixing to determine what we can to take action on to create the best user experience. At this time, we don't have anything to report about the specific features and issues you are discussing here. We'll be sure to post any future updates here.
In other words we should drop dead or submit to the awful UI because Google doesn't care how their users actually USE Google products? The complaints about asinine changes to Maps, groups, Gmail, and now Youtube should be a HINT that you are failing miserably at listening to the user base when it comes to maintaining essential UI configurations and product features.
Thanks Level Seven for mentioning that there is a Firefox add-on to fix that terrible new compose. I did a DuckDuckGo search and found it!
For other users who weren't aware of it, here's the link:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/restore-your-gmail-settings/
I was in the market for a smart phone a couple months ago. Was very interested in Moto X. But how Google handles this simple "bring back the old compose" request greatly diminished my good faith in Google. I got a Windows Phone instead.
You're very welcome. I'm glad I could pass this on as I discovered it here too. :)
I also stopped using some Google products because of this (or in the case of iGoogle because Google decided to pull the plug and sent me scurrying to Yahoo).
Bing gives you gift cards and other goodies for using their search. I have already redeemed $15 worth of Amazon cards since the New Compose debacle (and the Bing search page looks a lot like Classic Google to my eye!)
I also was forced to use Yahoo Finance instead of Google Finance when they "improved" the newsfeed so that it became useless (and of course all feedback was ignored since they know better than me what news I need to see... :( )
I used to use google products without a second thought since I was introduced to gmail classic (I was never a huge Google Search fan and liked AltaVista and others better) but now I hesitate to become dependnt on their product as they now have a history of yanking product that works for me and making other product unusable...
It bemuses me they don't seem to get it...
I also stopped using some Google products because of this (or in the case of iGoogle because Google decided to pull the plug and sent me scurrying to Yahoo).
Bing gives you gift cards and other goodies for using their search. I have already redeemed $15 worth of Amazon cards since the New Compose debacle (and the Bing search page looks a lot like Classic Google to my eye!)
I also was forced to use Yahoo Finance instead of Google Finance when they "improved" the newsfeed so that it became useless (and of course all feedback was ignored since they know better than me what news I need to see... :( )
I used to use google products without a second thought since I was introduced to gmail classic (I was never a huge Google Search fan and liked AltaVista and others better) but now I hesitate to become dependnt on their product as they now have a history of yanking product that works for me and making other product unusable...
It bemuses me they don't seem to get it...
I've not been here a while, just quietly fuming at the new compose as it continues to break my workflow. I'm pleased that a few (not all) of the most egregious problems have been dealt with but that still leaves the awful 'full screen' and chopped off attachments, amongst others. Imagine my delight when I found I now have to download each attachment separately if I want to save them to a folder other than the default (which is just about every time, I put client attachments into new folders named after an edited copy of the subject line). I used to right-click on the download all and I could copy the subject line, navigate to the correct client folder, create new folder, paste (and edit if required) for the name of the folder and save. I'd then go to the location and extract the zip with all the lovely files inside. Now I have to do this for each attachment individually, otherwise 'Google Knows Best ®', and I get a webpage HTML and a folder for image assets. Useful, 'eh?
I realise this has been discussed before in this thread but I need to get back to work so haven't read through everything, although I did see a few comments about this delightful new way to frustrate and annoy anyone over the age of 8 who actually works with google products.
I just wanted to continue to add my voice to the chorus here. Oh, and an update. I've told a new client to forget about Google Apps for Business. We are now investigating Outlook.com and Office365. It's a bit more expensive for the business offering but I'm hoping MS will treat it's customers more like adults. This may be naive, but I'm so disappointed in the company I was formerly accused, on more than one occasion, of being a fanboi for I'm prepared to give the ex-evil empire a second chance. This isn't said as a passive-agressive nyah nyah, rather as a statement of fact. There's only one of me but I am the sort of person everyone asks when they want any information on anything digital (a bit annoyingly, actually). So there.
Signed, Disgusted from Tunbridge Wells (My English compatriots should get the joke).
You know, you're right.
I guess I owe google a "Thank you" for ruining their products so much, and being completely arrogant about that ruination by taking the attitude that they know better than the people who actually USE their products on a daily basis, and showing their complete and utter disregard for their user's feedback and opinions, amdist protestations of "Change it back" for ALL of their products across the board.
That it's made me completely hate google in a way I've never hated any other product brand before.
It's also helped me break what I perceived as a complete Dependancy on google and their products, because I couldn't picture using ANYTHING ELSE but Gmail, for my email, and other google products for everything else.
Thanks to their complete disregard for their user-base as nothing more than Data-Cattle, I've since learned that it's OK to leave google, there are much much better and friendlier Interfaces out there, interfaces that actually make sense, TO HUMANS, written by Humans, instead of snobby engineers so far out of touch with human interaction that they are clueless about what constitutes a good and USEABLE interface.
I'm going back to the old way of dealing with Humans who are willing to listen to feedback AND criticism instead of creating artificial data and statistics that ALWAYS pats google on the back for a terrible job and says "DOUBLEPLUSGOOD!"
So, Thank You Google!
Thank you for pushing a loyal google customer away, to greener pastures.
Greener pastures that contain interfaces that make sense, written by people who give a damn.
I guess I owe google a "Thank you" for ruining their products so much, and being completely arrogant about that ruination by taking the attitude that they know better than the people who actually USE their products on a daily basis, and showing their complete and utter disregard for their user's feedback and opinions, amdist protestations of "Change it back" for ALL of their products across the board.
That it's made me completely hate google in a way I've never hated any other product brand before.
It's also helped me break what I perceived as a complete Dependancy on google and their products, because I couldn't picture using ANYTHING ELSE but Gmail, for my email, and other google products for everything else.
Thanks to their complete disregard for their user-base as nothing more than Data-Cattle, I've since learned that it's OK to leave google, there are much much better and friendlier Interfaces out there, interfaces that actually make sense, TO HUMANS, written by Humans, instead of snobby engineers so far out of touch with human interaction that they are clueless about what constitutes a good and USEABLE interface.
I'm going back to the old way of dealing with Humans who are willing to listen to feedback AND criticism instead of creating artificial data and statistics that ALWAYS pats google on the back for a terrible job and says "DOUBLEPLUSGOOD!"
So, Thank You Google!
Thank you for pushing a loyal google customer away, to greener pastures.
Greener pastures that contain interfaces that make sense, written by people who give a damn.
On Thursday, December 5, 2013 9:07:49 PM UTC-5, Level Seven wrote:
I used to use google products without a second thought since I was introduced to gmail classic (I was never a huge Google Search fan and liked AltaVista and others better) but now I hesitate to become dependnt on their product as they now have a history of yanking product that works for me and making other product unusable...
It bemuses me they don't seem to get it...
The only good thing to come out of this is a rabid dislike of google and all google products that have been degraded into crap and the consequent desire to avoid all things google wherever possible.
When idiots like the google employee above (astounded that google actually employs such idiots) claim "As a Googler who worked on the new compose, I want to reiterate that we have taken a lot of feedback into account throughout our time working on these new features. This has been a feature that has seen several iterations since it's initial launch over a year ago, and we have made major changes from conversations with our users such as the Full-screen view and pop-out replying as well as smaller tweaks" to justify such shit, it's time to leave.
Sane, sophisticated, intensive users hurling infuriated abuse at google for what they have done to gmail - is everyone at google now blind? Their feedback processes are so far removed from reality that they cannot at all sense this?
Spent half an hour on the phone trying to explain to a computer illiterate user how to attach file in gmail due to the lack of text icons. Ultimately, I had to go to my computer and load the abomination called the "new compose" to find the paper clip icon for file attachment. WTF was wrong with text labels that you could logically and happily describe on the phone without needing to decode abstract visuals?
Ridiculous. Bloody idiots.
When idiots like the google employee above (astounded that google actually employs such idiots) claim "As a Googler who worked on the new compose, I want to reiterate that we have taken a lot of feedback into account throughout our time working on these new features. This has been a feature that has seen several iterations since it's initial launch over a year ago, and we have made major changes from conversations with our users such as the Full-screen view and pop-out replying as well as smaller tweaks" to justify such shit, it's time to leave.
Sane, sophisticated, intensive users hurling infuriated abuse at google for what they have done to gmail - is everyone at google now blind? Their feedback processes are so far removed from reality that they cannot at all sense this?
Spent half an hour on the phone trying to explain to a computer illiterate user how to attach file in gmail due to the lack of text icons. Ultimately, I had to go to my computer and load the abomination called the "new compose" to find the paper clip icon for file attachment. WTF was wrong with text labels that you could logically and happily describe on the phone without needing to decode abstract visuals?
Ridiculous. Bloody idiots.
WTF was wrong with text labels that you could logically and happily describe on the phone without needing to decode abstract visuals?
Not to argue your position, but I'd like to point out that Gmail works in more languages than just English. Localization and string length for translated labels can create problems that non-text Icons simply don't have. I happen to prefer text too and use that option for the button at the top. But then I'm not responsible for making those buttons work in every supported language. The picture is bigger than just your ability to describe an icon over the phone.
But then we go back to why it can't be an OPTION instead of telling everyone that images are "the new black".
On Saturday, December 7, 2013 4:43:13 PM UTC-5, bkc56 wrote:WTF was wrong with text labels that you could logically and happily describe on the phone without needing to decode abstract visuals?Not to argue your position, but I'd like to point out that Gmail works in more languages than just English. Localization and string length for translated labels can create problems that non-text Icons simply don't have. I happen to prefer text too and use that option for the button at the top. But then I'm not responsible for making those buttons work in every supported language. The picture is bigger than just your ability to describe an icon over the phone.
They like to SAY they're listening, not to actually listen. Since the new version is an "improvement" it goes to sense they can't go back to the superior version...
I use the following to explain. The new compose is to "useful" as poutine is to actually being healthy for you. Doesn't stop me from eating them, but I still refuse to use the new crap they insist we use here.
I had to DDG "poutine." Poutine has not yet made it's way to Kansas...
On Monday, December 9, 2013 9:57:27 PM UTC-6, CycloneGU wrote:I use the following to explain. The new compose is to "useful" as poutine is to actually being healthy for you. Doesn't stop me from eating them, but I still refuse to use the new crap they insist we use here.
Haha Nice! "googled" is banned from my vocabulary now too.
So I "Binged" poutine, and my eyes got fat just looking at a picture of it.
So I "Binged" poutine, and my eyes got fat just looking at a picture of it.
On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 5:25:55 PM UTC-5, ronna wrote:I had to DDG "poutine." Poutine has not yet made it's way to Kansas...
Dayum. I oughta open up a food truck and bring it down there. Beats being jobless.
Let me know when you plan to be here!
:o)
:o)
On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 8:28:00 PM UTC-6, CycloneGU wrote:Dayum. I oughta open up a food truck and bring it down there. Beats being jobless.
It'll be on April 31. =)
Just something I found on the interwebs to deafen the roar of silence from google employees
Google Plus keeps bugging me,
"Use me, use me! I am free!"
I will not use you, Google Plus.
"Would you use me on a bus?
Would you use me on a train?
Would you use me on a plane?"
Not on a plane.
Not on a train.
Not on a bus.
I will not use you, Google Plus.
"You use my browser and my mail.
With Google Plus you could not fail!"
Gmail sucks, and Chrome ain't great
And Google Plus I really hate.
"Would you could you on a Nook?
Or instead of your Facebook?"
I would not could not on a Nook,
Nor instead of my Facebook.
I will not use you to find fun.
I will not use you to Plus One.
I will not use you on my Droid.
My Circles are all null and void.
I will not use you to share pics.
I will not use your other tricks.
Although I like Green Eggs and Ham,
I do not like you, cuz you're spam.
So please stop making such a fuss;
I will not use you, Google Plus!
This is the only appropriate response to that:
To Zibit,
We haven't spoken in ever so long. Do you still exist?
Heya SLMed,
Yes, I exist. I am currently trying to think of something interesting to type... I still think we should just ask if anyone here knows anyone with a good, cheap vacation rental place... What do you think? Is that too off topic?
Um, the new G+ taking over your account was horrible... Yuck. There.
Zib sweet pea,
So good to know you exist. Sure, let's ask: Would anyone know of an inexpensive yet lovely rental property for 7-14 days. We've looked on Craigs list. But somehow we keep getting linked to "personals", "casual encounters", which is a bit creepy. Forum users suggestions would be helpful.
Zib, nothing's too off topic. Flow with it. <3
G+ only seemed to take over my account. Control of my mouse is, however, your responsibility.
Um, the new G+ taking over your account was horrible... Yuck. There.
May be of interest: http://gmail-tips.blogspot.com/2013/12/avoiding-google-plus.html
For me, controlling your mouse is a responsibility I would not want. Two users on one computer? Kinda hard to use a computer that way. Can't think of much more difficult than that.
Oh, wait. The new Gmail and Google+. I stand corrected.
Oh, wait. The new Gmail and Google+. I stand corrected.
Too bad about Boston Dynamics, they used to be a good company.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/12/google-acquires-boston-dynamics-a-leading-robotics-company/
On the plus side, I can't WAIT for the Antitrust lawsuits to start pouring in.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/12/google-acquires-boston-dynamics-a-leading-robotics-company/
On the plus side, I can't WAIT for the Antitrust lawsuits to start pouring in.
The new compose is unspeakably time-consuming for people who use the 'send email as' feature, or have to reply to emails sent via web forms, or need to change the Subject line in a reply. I constantly have to re-send emails that I have sent by mistake to myself or sent from the wrong email address. Now we no longer have to put up with this thanks to the great new Chrome / Firefox plugin that restores Gmail to proper functionality. Pity Google couldn't be bothered. Here it is http://oldcompose.com/
So today the hilarious fail of the new Gmail came to light.
I was on the road and needed something out of my e-mail. Sadly, this forced me to have to log into Gmail through the physical site for the first time in four months. Happily, however, I had great joy and tidings when I logged in and was promptly told that Gmail would not display correctly and I was being advised to use the HTML version instead. Oh happy day! I didn't have to look at the stupid crap that Jason Cornwell thinks is superior to all who don't give a spit and think he has destroyed Gmail (me included).
So, if a job searching computer refuses to run the new Gmail, why bother upgrading the service to something that will not be supported? I will happily use this HTML version just to basically tell Cornhole to - well - imagine a certain finger perched upwards. However, at home, I continue to use Thunderbird because it's an open source e-mail client created by users for users. This is what Google needs to learn from.
I was on the road and needed something out of my e-mail. Sadly, this forced me to have to log into Gmail through the physical site for the first time in four months. Happily, however, I had great joy and tidings when I logged in and was promptly told that Gmail would not display correctly and I was being advised to use the HTML version instead. Oh happy day! I didn't have to look at the stupid crap that Jason Cornwell thinks is superior to all who don't give a spit and think he has destroyed Gmail (me included).
So, if a job searching computer refuses to run the new Gmail, why bother upgrading the service to something that will not be supported? I will happily use this HTML version just to basically tell Cornhole to - well - imagine a certain finger perched upwards. However, at home, I continue to use Thunderbird because it's an open source e-mail client created by users for users. This is what Google needs to learn from.
Cyclone,
If you are in a weak or slow signal area then Gmail will automatically switch to HTML and in borderline zones probably advise you to use it. Is something wrong with that?
If you are in a weak or slow signal area then Gmail will automatically switch to HTML and in borderline zones probably advise you to use it. Is something wrong with that?
It's not a weak or slow signal area. It's a job searching employment finding center. However, the computers at these places typically aren't updated with the newest doodad stuff, and things like Adobe Flash Player are never installed to keep people from using them to, say, watch videos; typically they are supposed to only be used for finding jobs, and if sites like Indeed can run, that's all they care about. The typical setup on these computers can never run the new Gmail. And frankly, if it did, the staff there would have to waste a lot of time helping people figure out something they themselves don't know how to use.
So, in other words, it's great that these places CANNOT use the "new and improved" Gmail. No problem at all. I was just telling the story.
So, in other words, it's great that these places CANNOT use the "new and improved" Gmail. No problem at all. I was just telling the story.
So, in other words, it's great that these places CANNOT use the "new and improved" Gmail.
Anyone can use the Basic html version of Gmail. That's been one of the suggested workaround since Day 1. Not sure why it (seems) to be a surprise to you.
Here we go again as usual.
Someone finds YET ANOTHER FAULT with GMAIL, and the TCs pop out of the woodwork defending it like rabid Justin Beiber Fanbois.
Give it up already, we HATE the new GMAIL, and you TCs coming in here basically posting "No it's not" is getting really old.
Have a lousy xmas the lot of you Google robots
Someone finds YET ANOTHER FAULT with GMAIL, and the TCs pop out of the woodwork defending it like rabid Justin Beiber Fanbois.
Give it up already, we HATE the new GMAIL, and you TCs coming in here basically posting "No it's not" is getting really old.
Have a lousy xmas the lot of you Google robots
And yet again the TC's come under fire for daring to comment.
Have a Very Happy Christmas.
Have a Very Happy Christmas.
That's because you all sound like one of those Magic 8-balls, A novelty, but completely useless.
● It is certain, ● It is decidedly so, ● Without a doubt, ● Yes definitely, ● You may rely on it, ● As I see it, yes, ● Most likely, ● Outlook good, ● Yes, ● Signs point to yes, ● Reply hazy try again, ● Ask again later, ● Better not tell you now, ● Cannot predict now, ● Concentrate and ask again, ● Don't count on it, ● My reply is no, ● My sources say no, ● Outlook not so good, ● Very doubtful
Let me check... ● My sources say no
On Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:48:27 PM UTC-5, The C Man ((mobile laureate)elder advisor) wrote:Have a Very Happy Christmas.
Let me check... ● My sources say no
Herp,
I hope the ghosts of Christmas past, present and future visit you tonight. Once again "Have a Very Merry Christmas".
I hope the ghosts of Christmas past, present and future visit you tonight. Once again "Have a Very Merry Christmas".
Where is the "COMPOSE: button?
So I STILL can not get a solo reply window without double clicks but now anyone - ANYONE - can email me via google plus ??
screw this. screw you google. http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/09/gmail-plans-to-allow-google-plus-users-to-send-anyone-an-email/?_r=0
And now this. ?? Let the world email you through google plus? You've got to be kidding. Beyond belief.
Ack! How frightening!
Happy New Year!
Happy New Year!
but WTF making this invasion of privacy a default to ON?
As I understand it, the default is whatever you had previously set for that equivalent option in your G+ settings. I'm trying to get confirmation of that, but that would mean the default is whatever you already had it set to.
I have virtually nothing checked in my G+settings because I have never wanted unknown people to be trying to contact me via G+. But yet in my Gmail settings, I, too just went and changed that to NO ONE. If I wasn't checking Product Forums on a semi-regular basis, this would have been completely hidden from me for who knows how long. I mean, I don't regularly check settings in Gmail to find out if they've added something! SHEEZ.
This most certainly is an invasion of my privacy to have set the default to anyone!
This most certainly is an invasion of my privacy to have set the default to anyone!
On Thursday, January 9, 2014 10:31:17 PM UTC-6, bkc56 wrote:but WTF making this invasion of privacy a default to ON?As I understand it, the default is whatever you had previously set for that equivalent option in your G+ settings. I'm trying to get confirmation of that, but that would mean the default is whatever you already had it set to.
Happy New year all!
Ronna (or anoyone who knows) - Where is that setting to turn Google + users emailing you off? Once again, the easy-to-use settings page has defeated me (keep in mind I do not have a G+ account - as far as I can tell since Google may have created one for me anyway so it can say it's "growing rapidly"...
Ronna (or anoyone who knows) - Where is that setting to turn Google + users emailing you off? Once again, the easy-to-use settings page has defeated me (keep in mind I do not have a G+ account - as far as I can tell since Google may have created one for me anyway so it can say it's "growing rapidly"...
@ Level 7 ... go to settings, then general. I found it beneath the "Conversation View" line ... it says "Email via Google+"
Just swinging by to say I still hate the new compose.
Also thanks for pointing out how to turn off mail via G+, I appreciate that.
I'm just waiting for the next big thing in mail and file storage to jump ship because its obvious google blah blah blah, you know the rest...
To turn off the new default which allows everyone to email you through Google+
In Gmail
1) go to Settings (click cog wheel image on upper right of gmail page)
2) select "General" tab (if not already selected)
3) look for "Email via Google+" (9th entry down the list, under "Conversation View" and before "Send & Archive" - if you don't have a google+ page you won't see this)
4) Select "No One" (options are: Anyone on Google+ (the default) // Extended Circles // Circles // No One)
Have pasted a screen shot below.
hope this helps.
Was so annoyed by this latest development that I forgot to say......
Happy New Year everyone!!
As we're still in time for both Russian New Year (Jan 14) and Chinese New Year (Jan 31).... I'd like to wish all of you a happy, healthy & magical 2014!
Be sure to also "OPT OUT" of Google using your personal photos in their Ads.
You have to do this on Google+, also make sure that your Google Phone isn't automatically uploading any pictures you take to google+,
as a friend of mine found out her google phone was doing.
http://lifehacker.com/how-to-opt-out-of-google-using-your-name-and-face-in-ad-1445516840
You have to do this on Google+, also make sure that your Google Phone isn't automatically uploading any pictures you take to google+,
as a friend of mine found out her google phone was doing.
http://lifehacker.com/how-to-opt-out-of-google-using-your-name-and-face-in-ad-1445516840
Also this article.
http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/01/google-comes-up-with-a-new-way-to-infiltrate-the-gmail-inbox/
I think one of the BEST comments was "Google has become Captain Ahab, Google+ its white whale. The company wantonly pursues Google+ to its own ruin."
http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/01/google-comes-up-with-a-new-way-to-infiltrate-the-gmail-inbox/
I think one of the BEST comments was "Google has become Captain Ahab, Google+ its white whale. The company wantonly pursues Google+ to its own ruin."
Ronna -
All Google+ users are being emailed personally about this new feature. In addition to explaining how the new feature works, you are told how to opt out of receiving mail from people who have Circled you, and given a direct link to the option in Settings >> General which controls who can and can't contact you by emailing their Circles in G+.
Keep an eye open for the email - if you haven't yet received it yet, that's probably because the feature is not yet fully turned on for you - i.e. you cannot yet send mail to the people in your Google+ Circles. I just received my email 3 hours ago. It looks like this, which I am sure you will agree gives you all the information required to manage this to your own satisfaction:
This is an outstanding example of fine customer service!!!
Now that there is a widespread uproar about the issue, Google has decided it is time to explain how they have been invading our privacy without our knowledge in the past, and even to provide us with instructions for actions that we must explicitly take in order to prevent our privacy from being similarly invaded in the future. You've got to hand it to Google. When they are caught doing something blatantly wrong and publicly chastised for it, they eventually admit it and offer a solution. They even show great respect for our valuable time by not forcing us to read anything like an apology for them being such intrusive a**holes!
Yay Google!!! If anyone can make Microsoft and the NSA look warm and friendly, it's you!!!
Joe,
This is a brand new feature, launched and announced two days ago, on 9th January 2014.
It has never before been possible to email people in your Circles whose email address you did not already know. You could only email the people in your Circles if you already had their email address in your Contacts. Even now, if you do choose to email them, that does not reveal their email address to you unless they choose to reply to you.
All Google+ users have been personally emailed with detailed information about the feature, BEFORE being able to send emails to anyone in your Circles, as well as a link to the settings page where your email availability to people who have you in their Circles can be limited or turned off altogether.
There is no invasion of privacy, there has been no invasion of privacy and there has been no covert stuff going on in this connection in the past.
There DID used to be an opt-in ability to allow people to email you via Google+ which any Google+ user could set in their Profile preferences. As a TC I did choose to set that option to "ON", so that people having Gmail problems could contact me privately by email with information they did not want to post on a public Forum. But then, as now, that did not give those people my email address, although it did reveal their's to me. This option was removed from Google+ some months ago. Since then there has been no ability at all to email someone via Google+ who's address you did not already know.
Do please be aware of the facts before you launch into yet another series of unfounded allegations.
Thanks Ronna. I don't have that option. Probably because I managed not to create a G+ account in spite of the countless pop-ups. ;)
Thank you. It's very helpful. I don't have that on my account (probably because I don't have G+)
@wendy ... I got my email about it 1/10 @ 3:27 pm. Actually, I have 4 Gmail addresses ... but I have filters in place and have to literally go looking for those emails. I really got the first email about this on 1/9 @ 11:55 pm, the 2nd on 1/10 @ 7:57 a.m. my main gmail addy yesterday @ 3:27 pm, and another one early this morning just after midnight. LOL. But because I have filters in place and I have to literally go looking for emails to those other addies, I didn't see them. And the notice to my "main", "unfiltered" email addy, because of conversation view, ended up nestled with the other notices in the same "folder" if you will, so I didn't see it until I went looking for it just now.
I don't use Google+ as the format is too confusing.
I don't use Google+ as the format is too confusing.
Google is nothing but a massive invasion of privacy for profit. Perhaps YOU should read some of the press about things that have already happened with respect to this issue, not to mention the numerous other ways that Google "mines" our data for their own benefit, for that of their advertisers, and that of the U.S. Government.
And it's absolutely typical Google behavior to say -- yes, we e-mailed you about this, why didn't you figure out how to opt-out? When it comes to our mailboxes being opened up to anyone on G+, especially with Google trying to foist G+ on us every time we turn around, the DEFAULT should be "opted-OUT," not the other way around. It's like a locksmith leaving a note on your front porch: "I unlocked your front door and left it open so people could come and go as they please. If you would like to close your door and lock it, please follow these steps . . ." Actually, for the analogy to be truly apt, the locksmith wouldn't leave the note on my front porch -- he'd bury under a rock in the backyard, then express shock if I complained that I hadn't found it.
I know that some people on these forums try their best to be helpful, but far too much of it is you apologists for Google, defending the indefensible.
Very witty Joe. :)
When it comes to our mailboxes being opened up to anyone on G+
Realize that "anyone" is only people who already have you added to one of their circles. That means they already know you by G+ name, or saw a PUBLIC post you made in order to add you. Using the term "anyone" is a bit of a generalization of who can actually send you a message.
Then what does this mean? (copied/pasted from the email I got)
Receiving email from people outside your circles
If you receive an email from someone outside your circles, it will be filtered into the Social category of the inbox (if enabled) and only after you respond or add them to your circles, can they start another conversation with you.
On Saturday, January 11, 2014 6:58:45 PM UTC-6, bkc56 wrote:When it comes to our mailboxes being opened up to anyone on G+Realize that "anyone" is only people who already have you added to one of their circles. That means they already know you by G+ name, or saw a PUBLIC post you made in order to add you. Using the term "anyone" is a bit of a generalization of who can actually send you a message.
On Sunday, January 12, 2014 9:25:57 AM UTC-8, ronna wrote:Then what does this mean? (copied/pasted from the email I got)Receiving email from people outside your circles
If you receive an email from someone outside your circles, it will be filtered into the Social category of the inbox (if enabled) and only after you respond or add them to your circles, can they start another conversation with you.
Wdurham previously (and snarkily) posted:"This option was removed from Google+ some months ago. Since then there has been no ability at all to email someone via Google+ who's address you did not already know"
So if there is no ability to do it, why is Google explaining what will happen when the DO??????
I guess they can't do it except if they do, in which case it will go into your Social folder, if that's enabled. If that is not enabled, I suppose it goes into your main mailbox. Sounds a whole lot like people you don't know being able to e-mail you via G+, doesn't it?
On Saturday, January 11, 2014 6:58:45 PM UTC-6, bkc56 wrote:When it comes to our mailboxes being opened up to anyone on G+Realize that "anyone" is only people who already have you added to one of their circles. That means they already know you by G+ name, or saw a PUBLIC post you made in order to add you. Using the term "anyone" is a bit of a generalization of who can actually send you a message.
Then what does this mean?
Exactly what it says. I guess I don't understand your question. Perhaps you could re-phrase it?
Note there is a difference between who's in YOUR circles which has little relationship to who's circles you are in for OTHER people.
I don't know if anybody read the article I posted, but a man is going to court because, thanks to Google+ automatically emailing people
that are in your contact list.
It seems that this guy had his wife/ex-wife in his contact list from back in the day that they were getting along, but she now has a "No Contact" restraining order against him,
and Google+ in all its enthusiasm to force you to connect with people again your will, sent off an email to her,
Now he's facing charges for violating the terms of the restraining order.
that are in your contact list.
It seems that this guy had his wife/ex-wife in his contact list from back in the day that they were getting along, but she now has a "No Contact" restraining order against him,
and Google+ in all its enthusiasm to force you to connect with people again your will, sent off an email to her,
Now he's facing charges for violating the terms of the restraining order.
Herp - I saw that link, and that was one of the anecdotes that made it clear Wdurham's assertion fell short of full disclosure (par for the course for Google). In their quest to generate more "hits" and attract more customers and generate more ad revenue, Google seems not to care that no matter how much of our data they mine, THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON IN OUR LIVES, AND THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT WE WANT!
In the story you posted, the woman was probably caused emotional distress by what looked like contact from someone against whom she had a restraining order, and for the man, he's in trouble with the law over a communication that Google chose to initiate on his behalf. I've never been on either side of a restraining order, but certainly there are people with whom I once happily exchanged e-mail from whom I would be less than happy to hear today (and I'm sure vice-versa).
Google -- Please let US decide how to run OUR lives!
One of my intense dislikes about Google, (Besides the fact that they're slowly destroying their company and reputation by turning their productions into that ghastly facebook clone called "Google+")
is that when they add a "feature" that completely violates your privacy even more, they ALWAYS, ALWAYS have that "feature" defaulted to "ON", then they 'matter-of-factly' tell you how to "Opt Out".
I believe they do this because they know that some people will be unable to find the setting to Opt-out, while a certain percentage won't be arsed to turn it off in the first place, they KNOW that
if they defaulted the "feature" to "OFF", that NOBODY would go and turn it on purposely.
Since google obviously isn't ever going to listen, and remains fixated on destroying their company by integrating all of their products into one horrendous "Star Trek Transporter Accident" mass of confusing and terrible interfaces,
my Gmail account is slowly turning into my Spam account as I move more and more of my email over to to another service.
I stay on these forums in the hopes that one day someone from google actually says something USEFUL rather than just a nebulous "We're Listening", because they clearly AREN'T listening.
My twitter feed is just pages and pages of people complaining about Gmail, so I would like to visit this happy land with rainbows, unicorns and ponies where everybody who loves the new Gmail lives,
because according to google, that happy land is populated with the gazillions of people who LIKE the change to Gmail.
I would think that if the amount of people that LIKED the new and unusable Gmail was so great, my twitter feed would be devoid of complaints about the Gmail UI.
Roughly 50% of the twitter complaints are directed to jason cornwell, and IF, jason responds, he'll tweet back "What problem are you having?" knowing full well that nobody can
address their problem in 145 (or whatever it is) characters.
is that when they add a "feature" that completely violates your privacy even more, they ALWAYS, ALWAYS have that "feature" defaulted to "ON", then they 'matter-of-factly' tell you how to "Opt Out".
I believe they do this because they know that some people will be unable to find the setting to Opt-out, while a certain percentage won't be arsed to turn it off in the first place, they KNOW that
if they defaulted the "feature" to "OFF", that NOBODY would go and turn it on purposely.
Since google obviously isn't ever going to listen, and remains fixated on destroying their company by integrating all of their products into one horrendous "Star Trek Transporter Accident" mass of confusing and terrible interfaces,
my Gmail account is slowly turning into my Spam account as I move more and more of my email over to to another service.
I stay on these forums in the hopes that one day someone from google actually says something USEFUL rather than just a nebulous "We're Listening", because they clearly AREN'T listening.
My twitter feed is just pages and pages of people complaining about Gmail, so I would like to visit this happy land with rainbows, unicorns and ponies where everybody who loves the new Gmail lives,
because according to google, that happy land is populated with the gazillions of people who LIKE the change to Gmail.
I would think that if the amount of people that LIKED the new and unusable Gmail was so great, my twitter feed would be devoid of complaints about the Gmail UI.
Roughly 50% of the twitter complaints are directed to jason cornwell, and IF, jason responds, he'll tweet back "What problem are you having?" knowing full well that nobody can
address their problem in 145 (or whatever it is) characters.
Ooh, me, me! I got one!
Google should use this as their doodle throughout the trial! Complete with a link to full coverage! That way people can see how intrusive and how stupid Google's new ideas actually are!
Google should use this as their doodle throughout the trial! Complete with a link to full coverage! That way people can see how intrusive and how stupid Google's new ideas actually are!
We're not the only ones appalled by this latest development......Just search 'google plus email news' and look at NEWS results.
Here's one from the NY Times, where the analysis is same as we've been saying here for months:
A Desperate Plot to Boost Google Plus
By VIKAS BAJAJBeck Diefenbach/Reuters
When Google launched Gmail, Internet users quickly began using the service. Same with Google Maps. But the company has struggled to get people to try Google Plus, its answer to Facebook and Twitter.
On Thursday, in a ham-handed attempt to make Plus seem more appealing, the company said it would allow anyone to send an email to any Gmail user through the social networking service. This follows an earlier move
to give every Gmail user a profile on Plus regardless of whether they
wanted one or not. The company also recently started requiring people
who want to comment on YouTube videos to sign up for Plus.
The company does give Gmail users a way to opt out
of unsolicited messages from other Plus users – it took me less than 30
seconds to do so. And Google also says senders will not be able to see
the email addresses of the people they are writing to unless the
recipients reply.
It’s good that the company is doing at least that much to protect Gmail users from a barrage of unwanted messages. But the fact that it keeps tying its weak social networking site into its stronger products seems desperate. Like Microsoft before it with its operating system and browser, Google is trying to use its dominant position in one field to push a lesser service onto unsuspecting users.
I do know some people who like and use Google Plus, but most of my friends simply aren’t interested in it. They are already on Facebook or Twitter, and find no need for another social networking outlet. No amount of shoehorning by Google executives is likely to change that
Key sentence in the above NY Times article, I meant to highlight:
Google is trying to use its dominant position in one field to push a lesser service onto unsuspecting users.
Herp.
Have you ever received an invitation such as that which wasn't sent by the person? I receive notices that somebody has added me to their Circles but not inviting me back. It actually tells me that they will be able to follow only what I make public.
"It seems that this guy had his wife/ex-wife in his contact list from back in the day that they were getting along, but she now has a "No Contact" restraining order against him,
and Google+ in all its enthusiasm to force you to connect with people again your will, sent off an email to her",
The one time I logged in to Google+ (had to log in to google+ in order to leave a comment on YOUTUBE) I noticed people automatically added to my circles from my Gmail Contact list, and also have had people
suggested to me for my circles from my contact list from gmail, EVEN PEOPLE I HAVE BLOCKED from my Gmail contact list.
On Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:58:08 PM UTC-5, The C Man ((mobile laureate)elder advisor) wrote:
suggested to me for my circles from my contact list from gmail, EVEN PEOPLE I HAVE BLOCKED from my Gmail contact list.
On Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:58:08 PM UTC-5, The C Man ((mobile laureate)elder advisor) wrote:
Herp.
Have you ever received an invitation such as that which wasn't sent by the person? I receive notices that somebody has added me to their Circles but not inviting me back. It actually tells me that they will be able to follow only what I make public.
I've had that problem with a site. I thought I was going to look at the options to refer it to people and it sent a request to all my contacts...
While I understand how difficult it is to assess customer feedback, the impression google gives is that it think everyone except a few usual malcontents loves the New Compose.
I think they are in complete denial.
As usual, if you want to make them notice, I suggest turning to Bing for your search like I did. I very much like it and it's giving me Amazon Gift cards for using it!
I think they are in complete denial.
As usual, if you want to make them notice, I suggest turning to Bing for your search like I did. I very much like it and it's giving me Amazon Gift cards for using it!
Glad I dropped back, I wouldn't have known why I was getting those unexpected emails otherwise. Although I set everything for my business accounts to 'do no share' and 'do not say - like, wanna be my bff? I'm really kewl' when I went into the (apparently compulsory, given my usage profile) G+ I found it had defaulted to 'tell the world and let the world talk to me' settings for everything I hadn't explicitly set to private in the past. And given that when I last went in to protect my privacy most of the parameters didn't exist in the same form, it was quite a few. Not to mention the difficulty of working out where all the correct parameters are in the first place. Thank you, fellow posters. It's been harder than I expected to change email providers and, so far, I don't feel that Chrome has been ruined (mind you, I haven't done any research into what they're doing behind the scenes) so I'm still a Google paying and free customer for the moment (if you can call search free, we pay with our behaviour) but unless Google gets over the Facebook white whale (and Facebook is having it's own issues anyway) I will be taking the first opportunity to leave. Ahab indeed. Along these lines I also held my nose and bought another eyeFone. The phone is generally good but Appl has been behaving like Google is now for a while so I was going to move to Android. That road is now closed, obviously. I considered Microsoft for the phone OS but I really didn't like the interface.
We are all sheep now, I mourn for the days when tech companies were bright eyed good guys (first MS, then Apple, now Google). It seems this is a cycle they all go through when they get large and arrogant although MS seems to have pulled it's head in since the 90s, I have hope for them. I wonder who the company will be to give Google a spanking for treating us like idiots? I hope it's not a case of musical chairs and we're stuck with whomever is in the hot seat when the music stops.
No need to help, top contributors. I'm posting to keep the flame burning and to vent.
johnz,
Check out the latest Blackberry 10 phones. The Z10 outruns anything in a normal sized phone and the Z30 in a 5" phone/pad. The Q10 if you really want to be able to use a keypad.
Check out the latest Blackberry 10 phones. The Z10 outruns anything in a normal sized phone and the Z30 in a 5" phone/pad. The Q10 if you really want to be able to use a keypad.
johnz,
Would you mind posting the wording of one of those unexpected emails please? Blank out any private information.
Would you mind posting the wording of one of those unexpected emails please? Blank out any private information.
This: Receiving email from people outside your circles... If you receive an email from someone outside your circles ...
If someone adds me to their circles but I don't reciprocate and add them to my circles, I have a reason for that; I don't know them or I don't want to include them in my circles for whatever reason. Maybe I just abhor the color green and their avatar background is green. Whatever. Regardless, I do not want people who are not in any of my circles or to whom I have not given my email to have the ability to try to contact me via email. I know they won't have my email address until I reply and their email will show up in the Social category rather than my inbox. Still, Whatever. I prefer NO ONE.
Thankfully this time, at least we get the choice to make that determination.
If someone adds me to their circles but I don't reciprocate and add them to my circles, I have a reason for that; I don't know them or I don't want to include them in my circles for whatever reason. Maybe I just abhor the color green and their avatar background is green. Whatever. Regardless, I do not want people who are not in any of my circles or to whom I have not given my email to have the ability to try to contact me via email. I know they won't have my email address until I reply and their email will show up in the Social category rather than my inbox. Still, Whatever. I prefer NO ONE.
Thankfully this time, at least we get the choice to make that determination.
I suggest turning to Bing for your search like I did. I very much like it and it's giving me Amazon Gift cards for using it!
Really? Microsoft is so desperate for users they are bribing people to use Bing with gift cards?
Better than being told "You can't post any comments on Youtube or interact AT ALL, unless we sign you up for our crappy Social Network called Google+"
Bing returns relevant results fore a search, Bing has been very much improved.
The google search algorithm has been changed to include google+ results (once more, forcing that horrible google+ on people) into the results, which in turns, screws up google searches' results.
Bing is far superior to today's google search.
If google search went back to the old way of doing things, then google would once again be the superior search engine, but again, in their desperation to force google+ on everybody,
they've even ruined THAT service. (related story)
I've switched to Bing, I've also uninstalled Chrome, because Chrome likes to crash at the slightest hint of Flash, and Chrome also likes to have Multiple instances of itself running all the time, and will eventually leave
an instance of itself running even after you shut it down.
iGoogle is no longer a choice for me to use, so now I'm stuck using "My Yahoo" as a start page until I can find something more like iGoogle.
I don't bother signing into YouTube anymore, what's the point?
The comment system is completely FUBAR'd now, people who post videos are complaining left and right, because now Comment notifications go to their UNWANTED Google+ accounts instead of their Inbox
I'm looking at google in astonishment, because the obvious arrogance at Google HQ is astounding that the masses are all complaining about google+ being shoved on them and Google STILL ISN'T LISTENING.
Surely there is some bean counter at google watching user numbers drop (unless they're still fooling themselves with their made up "Unicorn and Rainbow" Statistics)
I look at it as sheer madness, and the only thing I can figure is that there's some huge money to be made "somehow" by running the company into the ground, which seems to be the path they're heading.
Not only Captain Ahab, but apparently Google has a few Windmills to try and defeat as well
Are they so arrogant over there that they really can't fathom what all this anger towards google+ and google is?
Google+ has the absolute WORST interface for a social networking site, I mean it's completely AWFUL
The good part about all this integration is sooner than later an Anti-Trust Lawsuit will be knocking on their door, and Europe already has an antitrust suit against them (click here) for down ranking rival search engine results
Bing returns relevant results fore a search, Bing has been very much improved.
The google search algorithm has been changed to include google+ results (once more, forcing that horrible google+ on people) into the results, which in turns, screws up google searches' results.
Bing is far superior to today's google search.
If google search went back to the old way of doing things, then google would once again be the superior search engine, but again, in their desperation to force google+ on everybody,
they've even ruined THAT service. (related story)
I've switched to Bing, I've also uninstalled Chrome, because Chrome likes to crash at the slightest hint of Flash, and Chrome also likes to have Multiple instances of itself running all the time, and will eventually leave
an instance of itself running even after you shut it down.
iGoogle is no longer a choice for me to use, so now I'm stuck using "My Yahoo" as a start page until I can find something more like iGoogle.
I don't bother signing into YouTube anymore, what's the point?
The comment system is completely FUBAR'd now, people who post videos are complaining left and right, because now Comment notifications go to their UNWANTED Google+ accounts instead of their Inbox
I'm looking at google in astonishment, because the obvious arrogance at Google HQ is astounding that the masses are all complaining about google+ being shoved on them and Google STILL ISN'T LISTENING.
Surely there is some bean counter at google watching user numbers drop (unless they're still fooling themselves with their made up "Unicorn and Rainbow" Statistics)
I look at it as sheer madness, and the only thing I can figure is that there's some huge money to be made "somehow" by running the company into the ground, which seems to be the path they're heading.
Not only Captain Ahab, but apparently Google has a few Windmills to try and defeat as well
Are they so arrogant over there that they really can't fathom what all this anger towards google+ and google is?
Google+ has the absolute WORST interface for a social networking site, I mean it's completely AWFUL
The good part about all this integration is sooner than later an Anti-Trust Lawsuit will be knocking on their door, and Europe already has an antitrust suit against them (click here) for down ranking rival search engine results
On Monday, January 13, 2014 11:49:00 AM UTC-5, bkc56 wrote:Really? Microsoft is so desperate for users they are bribing people to use Bing with gift cards?
All that cut-off from Google and here you are on The Google Forums typing away =)
Get ready folks, google wants to be in your HOUSE.
http://www.wired.com/business/2014/01/google-nest-buy/
3.2 billion cash and we still can't get a freakin decent reply window without 4 clicks.
6 months now. shift+r, as described by google itself since August, should be a stand alone reply window.
It isn't.
but google wants to control the thermostat in my house.
http://www.wired.com/business/2014/01/google-nest-buy/
3.2 billion cash and we still can't get a freakin decent reply window without 4 clicks.
6 months now. shift+r, as described by google itself since August, should be a stand alone reply window.
It isn't.
but google wants to control the thermostat in my house.
On Monday, January 13, 2014 11:42:47 PM UTC-5, konkwest wrote:I don't believe there is any other option. Google for some stupid reason doesn't believe in people sending them e-mail from another e-mail account, nor do they hang around - you know - FACEBOOK looking for feedback. Twitter's accounts are most likely just placeholders that they don't look at. I meanwhile sent a mention to Jason Cornwall to reference a story about the new Windows coming in 2015 because Windows 8 - which Google seems to think is the new standard - has been bombing. It's funny they are trying to do something tablet-friendly. That's what Jason took his lead from.All that cut-off from Google and here you are on The Google Forums typing away =)
Microsoft is back-pedaling now. Google, it's time you do the same and give us back the superior interface you have taken away.
If this is how Google thinks I want to do my e-mail, they can stay the *bomb* out of my house. They will be turned away at the door.
If you read my other posts I explain WHY I'm here in the google forums still typing away.
On Monday, January 13, 2014 11:42:47 PM UTC-5, konkwest wrote:
All that cut-off from Google and here you are on The Google Forums typing away =)
Dear Google-Guys, WORDS are only symbols of meanings, and I cannot say enough to 'PRAISE' the 'Google Chrome Staff' !!! The more I use it the more wonderfully helpful items that are discovered to be Useful for me.
After Hacker problems since 11/12 I finally got my old XP computer Brain replaced with Windows 7 and when the problems began again, as a last resort I tried checking my McAfee and found that the Settings needed changing by ME. So even as a 83 yr old woman who learned to use a PC 10 yrs ago, today I'm filled with APPRECIATION for my amazing GOOGLE CHROME that makes my life simpler in more ways than words will tell.....but I'll tell just a few: ALL my family in 3 states far away, Banking,Socializing with groups with new friends in Canada and England when I live in Arizona, usa. PEACE AND LOVE TO ALLUGJOYMAKERS. :) sn
Sally,
Thank you. You put to shame some of these youngsters who seem to have insurmountable difficulties.
Thank you. You put to shame some of these youngsters who seem to have insurmountable difficulties.
you got it right...
g-mail feedback for better experience on google,thanks for your input
And C-man, you clearly put to shame anyone who aspires to be a complete turd.
Joe,
Your jealousy is showing.
Your jealousy is showing.
Enjoy having Chrome automatically update your Malware :)
Malware vendors buy chrome extensions to send adware filled updates
In case that link doesn't work, here's the plain url
http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/01/malware-vendors-buy-chrome-extensions-to-send-adware-filled-updates/
Malware vendors buy chrome extensions to send adware filled updates
In case that link doesn't work, here's the plain url
http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/01/malware-vendors-buy-chrome-extensions-to-send-adware-filled-updates/
Enjoy having Chrome automatically update your Malware :)
While this has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, it's still an interesting (and worrisome) article. I guess my best defense is that of the various extensions I have installed and available. I only have two actually enabled (the main one being AdBlock+). What I don't use won't hurt me?
M post that had "absolutely nothing to do with this thread" was a response to Sally's post about the Google Chrome which had "nothing to do with this thread"
I think she deserves fair warning when she finds that google chrome is hijacking her start page because some trusted addon she has installed gets sold by the Author to a Malware/Ad company,
considering that google is OK with authors sticking ads in their add-ons,
The point of the article is that nothing is stopping the authors of those "Safe and Trusted" addons, (that you already have installed and trust), to sell them for a lot of money to malware and that google doesn't notify people that the addon has changed hands, and the autoupdate insures that the malware addon will be installed, because google has a TERRIBLE screening process.
The only way google is actually going to lift an apathetic finger to fix this situation is when it starts hurting THEM, otherwise, they couldn't care less.
I think she deserves fair warning when she finds that google chrome is hijacking her start page because some trusted addon she has installed gets sold by the Author to a Malware/Ad company,
considering that google is OK with authors sticking ads in their add-ons,
The point of the article is that nothing is stopping the authors of those "Safe and Trusted" addons, (that you already have installed and trust), to sell them for a lot of money to malware and that google doesn't notify people that the addon has changed hands, and the autoupdate insures that the malware addon will be installed, because google has a TERRIBLE screening process.
The only way google is actually going to lift an apathetic finger to fix this situation is when it starts hurting THEM, otherwise, they couldn't care less.
On Wednesday, January 22, 2014 1:50:38 AM UTC-5, bkc56 wrote:While this has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, it's still an interesting (and worrisome) article. I guess my best defense is that of the various extensions I have installed and available. I only have two actually enabled (the main one being AdBlock+). What I don't use won't hurt me?
I'm assuming this same scenario could also happen with FF?
Well, duh. Welcome to capitalism.
On Wednesday, January 22, 2014 1:03:23 PM UTC-5, Herp wrote:The only way google is actually going to lift an apathetic finger to fix this situation is when it starts hurting THEM, otherwise, they couldn't care less.
Firefox has a very strict screening process done by actual living, breathing human beings who even look at the source code to make sure everything is A-OK,
google has an automated process, unfortunately, if an addon author sells the addon to a less-than-reputable company, it gets through the cracks,
and the automated process lets a lot of bad things slip by mainly because they can't be arsed with actually CARING for their customers,
after all, they're just "Data Cattle"
To be fair, they HAVE pulled two of the biggest offenders, (After announcing they would scan addons back in June of Last year, which shows just how well THAT worked)
but AFTER the fact that people have been infected with them, because they were both often used, installed, and trusted addons that were sold unknowingly to malware/ad vendors.
http://www.omgchrome.com/google-remove-adware-extensions-web-store/
Here's a current list of 15 adware/malware addons complied by a chrome USER, (Not Google) that you should watch out for.
http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1vir7a/chrome_extensions_are_being_bought_out_by_malware/cesp80l
google has an automated process, unfortunately, if an addon author sells the addon to a less-than-reputable company, it gets through the cracks,
and the automated process lets a lot of bad things slip by mainly because they can't be arsed with actually CARING for their customers,
after all, they're just "Data Cattle"
To be fair, they HAVE pulled two of the biggest offenders, (After announcing they would scan addons back in June of Last year, which shows just how well THAT worked)
but AFTER the fact that people have been infected with them, because they were both often used, installed, and trusted addons that were sold unknowingly to malware/ad vendors.
http://www.omgchrome.com/google-remove-adware-extensions-web-store/
Here's a current list of 15 adware/malware addons complied by a chrome USER, (Not Google) that you should watch out for.
http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1vir7a/chrome_extensions_are_being_bought_out_by_malware/cesp80l
Hi Ronna,
I somehow doubt it. Mozilla is unusual in that it is independent and basically runs on donations from users and payments from Google. The thinking is not the same.
Just seen the new post from Herp and I'll leave it at that apart from saying we should all donate our $3:00 to keep it the way it is.
I somehow doubt it. Mozilla is unusual in that it is independent and basically runs on donations from users and payments from Google. The thinking is not the same.
Just seen the new post from Herp and I'll leave it at that apart from saying we should all donate our $3:00 to keep it the way it is.
I just stumbled across this one ... interesting, huh?
http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/chrome/X3i6AAqvhN4
http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/chrome/X3i6AAqvhN4
Thanks Ronna, I'll post and raise it with Google Employees.
Ronna,
It's actually three years out of date so I'll leave it.
It's actually three years out of date so I'll leave it.
yes, seems it's been going on for a while now ...
On Wednesday, January 22, 2014 4:01:38 PM UTC-6, The C Man ((mobile laureate)elder advisor) wrote:Ronna,
It's actually three years out of date so I'll leave it.
What's REALLY interesting is this, (clipped from that forum thread you posted.)
The addon developer says this; "Since most users will be updated automatically (usually without even realizing it), and the chrome gallery has no review process before pushing out updates you have the potential to take my 14,000 users and push out advertising or malicious code"
The interesting part is, the date on that thread is April 2011, then this article (CLICK HERE) comes out on June 27 2013.....(A whole 2 years and 2 months LATER) announcing that google will start scanning addons for malware.
It took them that long to acknowledge there was a problem, and I'm willing to bet they acknowledged it only because it was hurting THEIR pocketbooks.
Look at the amount of Help those two addon authors got in the google forum.
ABSOLUTELY NONE AT ALL.
I guess when google says "we're listening" it's a lie.
The addon developer says this; "Since most users will be updated automatically (usually without even realizing it), and the chrome gallery has no review process before pushing out updates you have the potential to take my 14,000 users and push out advertising or malicious code"
The interesting part is, the date on that thread is April 2011, then this article (CLICK HERE) comes out on June 27 2013.....(A whole 2 years and 2 months LATER) announcing that google will start scanning addons for malware.
It took them that long to acknowledge there was a problem, and I'm willing to bet they acknowledged it only because it was hurting THEIR pocketbooks.
Look at the amount of Help those two addon authors got in the google forum.
ABSOLUTELY NONE AT ALL.
I guess when google says "we're listening" it's a lie.
Herp,
It's not always possible to know whether anybody is contacted in private by a Google Employee so there might have been something behind the scene that happened.
It's not always possible to know whether anybody is contacted in private by a Google Employee so there might have been something behind the scene that happened.
OK, I'll give you that, but it would be helpful if the title of that thread included a (SOLVED) or some indicator that the problem was addressed.
Other forums do that, someone will post "How do you fix this?" and once the person's problem has been solved, a moderator will usually lock the thread and change the title to read "How do you fix this? (SOLVED)"
It helps keep track of what has and hasn't been fixed/addressed
Other forums do that, someone will post "How do you fix this?" and once the person's problem has been solved, a moderator will usually lock the thread and change the title to read "How do you fix this? (SOLVED)"
It helps keep track of what has and hasn't been fixed/addressed
On Wednesday, January 22, 2014 7:06:33 PM UTC-5, The C Man ((mobile laureate)elder advisor) wrote:Herp,
It's not always possible to know whether anybody is contacted in private by a Google Employee so there might have been something behind the scene that happened.
Well, since Google doesn't answer any feedback messages (through the Web site, etc.), I think the likelihood of a Google employee taking the time out to contact someone is 0.00001%.
Cyclone,
Once again "It's not always possible to know whether anybody is contacted in private by a Google Employee".
Once again "It's not always possible to know whether anybody is contacted in private by a Google Employee".
I am fed up with composing emails in Gmail.
-The most troubling thing is that all the tools are hidden behind menus. I need to check the more options arrow, or click in the recipients section to see who the sender is. As someone with multiple email accounts in gmail, this is very annoying. There is a chance that I send an email with my professional email instead of my personal email, or vice versa.
-Why is spell check, print, plain text, and label hiding. Shouldn't those essential options be visible in a menu for formatting?
-There should be a discard button and a save button. Why hide it from us? In no other program does the close button save a draft. Just put the command there in plain text. I miss the old compose.
This interface makes sense. Yahoo!
http://www.oeupdates.com/image-files/send-email-yahoo-2.gif
-The most troubling thing is that all the tools are hidden behind menus. I need to check the more options arrow, or click in the recipients section to see who the sender is. As someone with multiple email accounts in gmail, this is very annoying. There is a chance that I send an email with my professional email instead of my personal email, or vice versa.
-Why is spell check, print, plain text, and label hiding. Shouldn't those essential options be visible in a menu for formatting?
-There should be a discard button and a save button. Why hide it from us? In no other program does the close button save a draft. Just put the command there in plain text. I miss the old compose.
This interface makes sense. Yahoo!
http://www.oeupdates.com/image-files/send-email-yahoo-2.gif
There is a workaround in fact. In the middle of my rant, i found this article.
http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-57603259-285/two-chrome-store-extensions-bring-back-gmails-old-compose-window/
-I hate the apps button on google.com. It is hard to find google services. The black bar showed a lot more services and it was easy to use. To fix google use this address that brings back the bar that makes google useable. https://www.google.com/?noj=1
Adding extraneous steps to find menus is really annoying. Also, why isn't images in the app list? Google should at least be consistent in ignoring what users want.
They are (so desperate they are bribing users with gift cards!)! Isn't that wonderful?!! I already go close to $50 in Amazon cards. :)
Bing also has a very nice feature if you're checking out historical (or just well-known people) It shows a short bio with picture on the right with links to their family or associates.
I also had the same experience with iGoogle. I liked it better than MyYahoo. Still do, but there isn't a choice any longer for me...
On Monday, January 13, 2014 10:42:08 AM UTC-8, Herp wrote:
I also had the same experience with iGoogle. I liked it better than MyYahoo. Still do, but there isn't a choice any longer for me...
On Monday, January 13, 2014 10:42:08 AM UTC-8, Herp wrote:
Better than being told "You can't post any comments on Youtube or interact AT ALL, unless we sign you up for our crappy Social Network called Google+"
Bing returns relevant results fore a search, Bing has been very much improved.
The google search algorithm has been changed to include google+ results (once more, forcing that horrible google+ on people) into the results, which in turns, screws up google searches' results.
Bing is far superior to today's google search.
If google search went back to the old way of doing things, then google would once again be the superior search engine, but again, in their desperation to force google+ on everybody,
they've even ruined THAT service. (related story)
I've switched to Bing, I've also uninstalled Chrome, because Chrome likes to crash at the slightest hint of Flash, and Chrome also likes to have Multiple instances of itself running all the time, and will eventually leave
an instance of itself running even after you shut it down.
iGoogle is no longer a choice for me to use, so now I'm stuck using "My Yahoo" as a start page until I can find something more like iGoogle.
I don't bother signing into YouTube anymore, what's the point?
The comment system is completely FUBAR'd now, people who post videos are complaining left and right, because now Comment notifications go to their UNWANTED Google+ accounts instead of their Inbox
I'm looking at google in astonishment, because the obvious arrogance at Google HQ is astounding that the masses are all complaining about google+ being shoved on them and Google STILL ISN'T LISTENING.
Surely there is some bean counter at google watching user numbers drop (unless they're still fooling themselves with their made up "Unicorn and Rainbow" Statistics)
I look at it as sheer madness, and the only thing I can figure is that there's some huge money to be made "somehow" by running the company into the ground, which seems to be the path they're heading.
Not only Captain Ahab, but apparently Google has a few Windmills to try and defeat as well
Are they so arrogant over there that they really can't fathom what all this anger towards google+ and google is?
Google+ has the absolute WORST interface for a social networking site, I mean it's completely AWFUL
The good part about all this integration is sooner than later an Anti-Trust Lawsuit will be knocking on their door, and Europe already has an antitrust suit against them (click here) for down ranking rival search engine results
On Monday, January 13, 2014 11:49:00 AM UTC-5, bkc56 wrote:Really? Microsoft is so desperate for users they are bribing people to use Bing with gift cards?
Personally, I'm still holding to the hope Gmail will remain usable. With the Old Compose add-on it is, but it'd be better if they learned from the feedback and went back to a better, happier interface.
Also I don't want them saying "you see - nobody complains anymore because everyone loves the New Compose". They might say it, but it will be demonstrably false.
On Tuesday, January 14, 2014 6:34:36 PM UTC-8, Herp wrote:
Also I don't want them saying "you see - nobody complains anymore because everyone loves the New Compose". They might say it, but it will be demonstrably false.
On Tuesday, January 14, 2014 6:34:36 PM UTC-8, Herp wrote:
If you read my other posts I explain WHY I'm here in the google forums still typing away.
On Monday, January 13, 2014 11:42:47 PM UTC-5, konkwest wrote:All that cut-off from Google and here you are on The Google Forums typing away =)
I have started migrating away from Google products since the compose fiasco (Bing is now my preferred search engine), but gmail was usable with the old compose addon. It was also usable with the html version. Occasionally, viewed this thread for entertainment. Yesterday tried gmail on a different account with Google's current compose design. Was surprised that it was usable although it was about 2 steps below the old compose. The big difference from the texting compose that was imposed on everyone fairly recently was that the compose reply window could be configured to be an OK size. (Why I can't stretch it, I don't know. I guess Google feels that it is always smarter than its users and that they aren't smart enough to customize their own emails.) Also, a drop down button allows you to edit the subject when replying, which is a very big improvement. However, the new compose is still substantially inferior to the old compose. So, the bottom line is that ultimately Google half listened and at least kept an email product instead of changing gmail to a texting product, which is what the original release of the new compose was.
Had a short interesting discussion with a Microsoft employee I met over Christmas vacation. She worked in Microsoft email and told me the reason that it crashed so often was that they merged two systems together (presumably Hotmail & Outlook) and that the servers couldn't handle the load. This is really too bad because I tried Outlook and really liked it, but when I checked reviews, I found out that Outlook went down quite often and realized I couldn't use it.
Also, I have an important backup aol email account, and it was closed because AOL said something suspicious was going on. Was amazed that there was a phone no. I could call. I called and someone came on the line quickly, and the problem was taken care of in about 5 minutes. I can only imagine what a nightmare that would have been if it had been an important Google account.
The bottom line for me is that apparently the horrible reception for the new compose had some effect, which is welcome. Too bad that Google treats its users like sheep and wouldn't retain the old compose option.
I've migrated completely away from using google as a main "Anything" anymore.
I use Thunderbird as my email interface and have accounts at Outlook.com and Yahoo.com
Whenever I use my gmail.com address, it's only used as a spam collecting address when being forced to register for a website, all my important email has been switched over to outlook, gmail is now my "junk drawer/spam account"
I've found Bing superior to google now, because google skews the results to continue to promote their garbage called Google+
I was initially worried about leaving google, but now I find that life is much better without them
I just stay subscribed to this forum and respond to posts that I like.
Seeing as this forum is as pointless and as useless (for actually giving google feedback) as every single other google product is, I sign into this when the forum shoots me an email showing someone has posted.
I use Thunderbird as my email interface and have accounts at Outlook.com and Yahoo.com
Whenever I use my gmail.com address, it's only used as a spam collecting address when being forced to register for a website, all my important email has been switched over to outlook, gmail is now my "junk drawer/spam account"
I've found Bing superior to google now, because google skews the results to continue to promote their garbage called Google+
I was initially worried about leaving google, but now I find that life is much better without them
I just stay subscribed to this forum and respond to posts that I like.
Seeing as this forum is as pointless and as useless (for actually giving google feedback) as every single other google product is, I sign into this when the forum shoots me an email showing someone has posted.
What is sad is the lack of acknowledgment by Google that there even was a problem.
I'm having the same issue with Imdb.com. I am a pro subscriber and they just forced everyone to use their new site, which is a massive downgrade and are so proud of it, they're going to charge $20 a year more (presumably to pay the "geniuses" that downgraded the site!)
So far I have gotten zero feedback from them and am hoping they won't take vengeance by taking down my credits as they have a horrible reputation. Sadly their competitor is even worse.
Back to what you said, I use Bing for most of my searches now and am very happy with it. It's like the old google search...
I'm having the same issue with Imdb.com. I am a pro subscriber and they just forced everyone to use their new site, which is a massive downgrade and are so proud of it, they're going to charge $20 a year more (presumably to pay the "geniuses" that downgraded the site!)
So far I have gotten zero feedback from them and am hoping they won't take vengeance by taking down my credits as they have a horrible reputation. Sadly their competitor is even worse.
Back to what you said, I use Bing for most of my searches now and am very happy with it. It's like the old google search...
Yea, I'm having the SAME problem with Soundcloud.com
They had an awesome functional interface, and have since changed it to be this unusable click-fest MESS.
There was even a protest campaign started on Sound cloud with people voicing their displeasure about the new interface, and people even complained to the head-honchos on their facebook page.
What's even worse, is the people in charge of Soundcloud.com, who RUINED the interface, were actually arguing and fighting with the people complaining, and were even "LOLing" at the users and insulting them
Apparently this arrogant attitude towards writing dysfunctional and useless Interfaces...sorry "EXPERIENCES" isn't just delegated to Google anymore
They had an awesome functional interface, and have since changed it to be this unusable click-fest MESS.
There was even a protest campaign started on Sound cloud with people voicing their displeasure about the new interface, and people even complained to the head-honchos on their facebook page.
What's even worse, is the people in charge of Soundcloud.com, who RUINED the interface, were actually arguing and fighting with the people complaining, and were even "LOLing" at the users and insulting them
Apparently this arrogant attitude towards writing dysfunctional and useless Interfaces...sorry "EXPERIENCES" isn't just delegated to Google anymore
On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 11:14:10 PM UTC-4, Level Seven wrote:
I'm having the same issue with Imdb.com. I am a pro subscriber and they just forced everyone to use their new site, which is a massive downgrade and are so proud of it, they're going to charge $20 a year more (presumably to pay the "geniuses" that downgraded the site!)
So far I have gotten zero feedback from them and am hoping they won't take vengeance by taking down my credits as they have a horrible reputation. Sadly their competitor is even worse.
Back to what you said, I use Bing for most of my searches now and am very happy with it. It's like the old google search...
Sadly, it's not just Google. Companies invest huge amounts of money to get a "better" site and when they get negative feedback, they don't want to hear or acknowledge it. A friend of mine worked for a company that had just overhauled their website and the new version was so clunky, keeping it open actually slowed my computer down because it was a mySpace-fest with dozens of videos on the front page.
I did send them feedback, but the company was telling all their employees they hadn't gotten a single negative feedback...
Of course, the people that do those downgrades are afraid they'll be fired if their bosses realize what a horrible job they've done (which is what Google should have done with Jason Cornwall given the mes he made of one of their star products).
I did send them feedback, but the company was telling all their employees they hadn't gotten a single negative feedback...
Of course, the people that do those downgrades are afraid they'll be fired if their bosses realize what a horrible job they've done (which is what Google should have done with Jason Cornwall given the mes he made of one of their star products).
Minor detail. It's CornWELL.
And yes, Google needs to distance themselves from him and restore the older (better) interface. I have not switched simply because I use it with my Thunderbird and all e-mail accounts look the same there (it's like Outlook Express, I guess you could say), but for the head people at Google to say they have received no negative feedback is like telling a fitness nut she needs to lose 50 pounds.
And yes, Google needs to distance themselves from him and restore the older (better) interface. I have not switched simply because I use it with my Thunderbird and all e-mail accounts look the same there (it's like Outlook Express, I guess you could say), but for the head people at Google to say they have received no negative feedback is like telling a fitness nut she needs to lose 50 pounds.
On Thursday, March 13, 2014 10:28:44 PM UTC-4, Level Seven wrote:Of course, the people that do those downgrades are afraid they'll be fired if their bosses realize what a horrible job they've done (which is what Google should have done with Jason Cornwall given the mes he made of one of their star products).
On Thursday, March 13, 2014 6:58:05 PM UTC-7, Herp wrote:Yea, I'm having the SAME problem with Soundcloud.com
They had an awesome functional interface, and have since changed it to be this unusable click-fest MESS.
There was even a protest campaign started on Sound cloud with people voicing their displeasure about the new interface, and people even complained to the head-honchos on their facebook page.
What's even worse, is the people in charge of Soundcloud.com, who RUINED the interface, were actually arguing and fighting with the people complaining, and were even "LOLing" at the users and insulting them
Apparently this arrogant attitude towards writing dysfunctional and useless Interfaces...sorry "EXPERIENCES" isn't just delegated to Google anymore
On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 11:14:10 PM UTC-4, Level Seven wrote:
I'm having the same issue with Imdb.com. I am a pro subscriber and they just forced everyone to use their new site, which is a massive downgrade and are so proud of it, they're going to charge $20 a year more (presumably to pay the "geniuses" that downgraded the site!)
So far I have gotten zero feedback from them and am hoping they won't take vengeance by taking down my credits as they have a horrible reputation. Sadly their competitor is even worse.
Back to what you said, I use Bing for most of my searches now and am very happy with it. It's like the old google search...
Thanks for the correction. I guess I had put him out of my mind. :)
It is a general pattern of companies to deny they receive any negative feedback, even in the face of obvious bad reactions, or to say "well, people don't like change but the new stuff is still great", without realizing that if you do something different, there has to be an improvement in the product.
To go back to imdb.com, their new Pro site is missing info that's in the general site, is no longer customizable and requires multiple clicks where one sufficed, etc... I am entirely convinced they will chalk up my comments to them as "oh, he just doesn't like change". They will (I guess - prove me wrong imdb.com!) never stop and think their "uprade" actually does not offer anything new and just makes their site less user friendly. Personally I hope it prompts competition as this is what makes products better (clearly marketing is useless when you use it for ego stroking and customer feedback is ignored in the absence of competition).
As I said before, the best move is to use other products as much as possible. Frankly, at this point I like Bing search a lot better than Google (then again I was an AltaVista fan!)
It is a general pattern of companies to deny they receive any negative feedback, even in the face of obvious bad reactions, or to say "well, people don't like change but the new stuff is still great", without realizing that if you do something different, there has to be an improvement in the product.
To go back to imdb.com, their new Pro site is missing info that's in the general site, is no longer customizable and requires multiple clicks where one sufficed, etc... I am entirely convinced they will chalk up my comments to them as "oh, he just doesn't like change". They will (I guess - prove me wrong imdb.com!) never stop and think their "uprade" actually does not offer anything new and just makes their site less user friendly. Personally I hope it prompts competition as this is what makes products better (clearly marketing is useless when you use it for ego stroking and customer feedback is ignored in the absence of competition).
As I said before, the best move is to use other products as much as possible. Frankly, at this point I like Bing search a lot better than Google (then again I was an AltaVista fan!)
On Thursday, March 13, 2014 8:06:18 PM UTC-7, CycloneGU wrote:Minor detail. It's CornWELL.
And yes, Google needs to distance themselves from him and restore the older (better) interface. I have not switched simply because I use it with my Thunderbird and all e-mail accounts look the same there (it's like Outlook Express, I guess you could say), but for the head people at Google to say they have received no negative feedback is like telling a fitness nut she needs to lose 50 pounds.
Cyclone,
Google have never said they haven't received any negative feedback. Seven said it was a company where a friend of his worked.
This thread has been replied to somewhere by a Google Employee which would tend to prove that Google does know about it.
Google have never said they haven't received any negative feedback. Seven said it was a company where a friend of his worked.
This thread has been replied to somewhere by a Google Employee which would tend to prove that Google does know about it.
Noted. But Google is not directly addressing negative feedback here other than to try to show people new ways of doing things that take twice as long or are more confusing and cumbersome. Google has refused to learn that we are not disobedient mutts who need to be trained on new and confusing buttons and instead continues to force this new interface on us instead of giving the faithful what they want: their original interface.
I have been forced to access my e-mail on the road on two occasions. Thankfully, it was in the HTML format because those computers (government machines basically) don't get all the things that the new Gmail needs.
I have been forced to access my e-mail on the road on two occasions. Thankfully, it was in the HTML format because those computers (government machines basically) don't get all the things that the new Gmail needs.
Cyclone,
Once again you are disregarding the changes made by Google in response to the complaints.
Once again you are disregarding the changes made by Google in response to the complaints.
- Compose box was too small: You can now choose to have the expanded Compose as a default.
- Hidden formatting tools: Choosing the expanded Compose default gives you back the toolbar in plain sight.
- Change of subject: Takes an extra click but available.
Those are off the top of my head. Just because not everything in the previous version has been brought back does not show Google has not listened.
Most of us would prefer the previous version but who knows what the next version will bring.
Once again you ignore the point. Anything that disrupts in any way the fluidity of using an e-mail client makes the e-mail client worse. In my opinion, Gmail is still worse than it was at the start of 2013.
Not sure why that posted twice. I got a cookie error or something and apparently two went through.
Cyclone,
You seem to have missed the last line of my previous post.
You seem to have missed the last line of my previous post.
I didn't ignore your main point which I happen to agree with but I will correct what I regard as misleading statements and misuse of what others have said.
"Most of us would prefer the previous version but who knows what the next version will bring".
The last statement was not lost on me in the previous reply. My main reason for replying is merely to note that I still have a distaste for the "new and improved Gmail". A resizable window does not replace the full pane functionality from before, no matter what anyone at Google thinks. Including Cornhole.
Just answer my question. gmail started adding names to Cc/Bc, and I wil add my own names...thank you.
How do I get Google to stop adding names tgo my emails?
I recommend an external client. Thunderbird works good.
On Monday, March 24, 2014 10:42:05 AM UTC-4, Don Griffith wrote:Just answer my question. gmail started adding names to Cc/Bc, and I wil add my own names...thank you.How do I get Google to stop adding names tgo my emails?
Using Thunderbird is the only way that gmail is of any use to me.
The whole gmail interface is one worthless cumbersome unnecessary click-fest of nonsense.
As it is, I'm slowing migrating off all of my important email contacts to my other, now main email account with a different provider, and leaving gmail as my spam account that I use
whenever I have to register for a website.
So, WAY TO GO GOOGLE! Now, not only do I not see ANY of your stupid ads in Gmail anymore, but all the email going to my gmail account will be completely irrelevant for
you to aim any advertising at me.
Way to FAIL in a big way google.
The whole gmail interface is one worthless cumbersome unnecessary click-fest of nonsense.
As it is, I'm slowing migrating off all of my important email contacts to my other, now main email account with a different provider, and leaving gmail as my spam account that I use
whenever I have to register for a website.
So, WAY TO GO GOOGLE! Now, not only do I not see ANY of your stupid ads in Gmail anymore, but all the email going to my gmail account will be completely irrelevant for
you to aim any advertising at me.
Way to FAIL in a big way google.
On Monday, March 24, 2014 11:44:44 AM UTC-4, CycloneGU wrote:I recommend an external client. Thunderbird works good.
I'm downloading Thunderbird now. I've had it with the attachment file names being cut off and the stupid subject line extra clicks, not to mention the double scrollbar email within an email hell. I've been avoiding moving to Outlook as it installs too many large files on my local disc but I'm hoping Thuderbird will be better behaved, being a primarily internet focussed product (as opposed to an MS Exchange focussed one) .
John:
Let me be the first to welcome you to "sanity".
Let me be the first to welcome you to "sanity".
On Monday, March 24, 2014 12:41:03 PM UTC-4, johnz12345 wrote:I'm downloading Thunderbird now. I've had it with the attachment file names being cut off and the stupid subject line extra clicks, not to mention the double scrollbar email within an email hell. I've been avoiding moving to Outlook as it installs too many large files on my local disc but I'm hoping Thuderbird will be better behaved, being a primarily internet focussed product (as opposed to an MS Exchange focussed one) .
Don,
Google should not add names/addresses to cc or bcc unless you want it to. Would you please give more details as this is something that does need investigating.
Google should not add names/addresses to cc or bcc unless you want it to. Would you please give more details as this is something that does need investigating.
Have you tried the Old Compose add-on if you use Firefox?
On Monday, March 24, 2014 7:42:05 AM UTC-7, Don Griffith wrote:Just answer my question. gmail started adding names to Cc/Bc, and I wil add my own names...thank you.How do I get Google to stop adding names tgo my emails?
Gmail doesn't add names to anything. It will suggest names, but will not add them without your say-so.
How odd, considering that for the first time I was forced to log into my actual Gmail web interface EVERYTHING WAS NAMED.
Then I was given the option to turn it off, but ONLY AFTER EVERYTHING was NAMED.
You google apologists are worse than Young Earth Creationists. SERIOUSLY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPgV6-gnQaE
Then I was given the option to turn it off, but ONLY AFTER EVERYTHING was NAMED.
You google apologists are worse than Young Earth Creationists. SERIOUSLY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPgV6-gnQaE
On Monday, March 24, 2014 10:44:00 PM UTC-4, Fuzzy wrote:Gmail doesn't add names to anything. It will suggest names, but will not add them without your say-so.
I have no idea what you're trying to say. What does it mean "EVERYTHING WAS NAMED"?