AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT!

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AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! BradenOmnicide 9/9/10 5:09 PM
I today, have been a victim of "Click Bombing" for the second time and what that is, is when some degenerate nutcase comes to your channel and clicks the AdSense ads over and over again, trying to trick Google into thinking that there is some invalid activity on the part of the channel owner, therefore getting the AdSense account terminated. I had to disable revenue sharing on FIVE AdSense approved monetized videos on my channel, because I am without protection from some lunatic doing this to me and a lot of people are losing their AdSense accounts due to some jealous, insane psychopath simply clicking on their ads numerous times. I am losing revenue and so is Google by me having to disable the ads on my videos to prevent my AdSense account from being WRONGLY W R O N G L Y suspended. I have located ONE of the individuals who is click bombing my ads, and reported he/she to Youtube, I have also reported this horrible invalid clicks to AdSense and I have even done a video about this, kept unlisted here is the link WATCH THIS VIDEO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiiYmoJxV_g  <<< I am not making another video or enabling revenue sharing until I am protected from these kind predators, doing this to innocent people. Partners are leaving Youtube because of this too btw.

Help protect us, we do nothing but make videos we need protection! Block an ip after it has clicked an ad ONE time please!
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ebbixx 9/9/10 5:26 PM
You might want to add this as a reply to the staffer comments lately berating partners for alleged infractions.

This one in particular http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/youtube/thread?tid=157d2cda1995ed14&hl=en
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! BradenOmnicide 9/9/10 5:29 PM
Can you post it there, I'm not sure how to do that?
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ebbixx 9/9/10 5:46 PM
It's not my claim, it's yours.  Surely you can cut and paste the text as a reply as easily as I could.

And I'm not saying this out of prejudice.  The fact that staff is commenting on this when they have no time to comment on any tech issues of any significance suggests to me there may well be two sides to the same coin here, and that Google may be braindead enough to assume that what you describe as "click bombing" is the same thing they are seeing as violations of AdSense TOU.

Click the active link in my reply and you should find the post I'm referring to and there should be a Post reply form there you can enter your comments in, either simply as a cut and paste or directed specifically to what ytSandy describes from Google's POV.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ugleeee 9/10/10 12:18 AM
If you track your clicks on a daily basis and see unusual click totals on any given day I would be proactive about it and alert adsense immediately explaining your situation and that you believe someone might be clicking your ads maliciously.  That's what I did one time I had a bunch of unexpected clicks.  Turned out my video was just going viral and I didn't know it.  But that's the best way to handle it I believe.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! rewboss 9/10/10 3:45 AM
As ugleeee says, keep an eye on your eCPM rate. Any unusual activity, you report it to AdSense immediately -- this is handled by AdSense, not by YouTube.

You might get a better response from the AdSense Help Forum, here:
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/AdSense
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! Taofledermaus 9/10/10 11:30 AM
I saw a slight increase of my CTR  last month,  I average around 0.50%  and saw some days @ 0.80%,   probably nothing serious,  I have not idea what is "normal" for YT CRT's.   Anyway,   I  proactively sent in an  "unusual click"  notification,  and a few days later saw a couple hundred dollars had been subtracted from my earnings.    I have no idea if my CRT was suspicious or normal,  but I am short a good chunk of change for trying to do the right thing.   Beware.
 
 
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! BradenOmnicide 9/10/10 11:42 AM
I don't care anymore I disabled ads on all of My Youtube videos, to hell with it. I will not turn them back on until i am protected from internet scum maliciously clicking on My ads out of hatred, jealousy, envy or whatever.

Here is the solution to our problem, BLOCK THE IP AFTER IT HAS CLICKED AN AD ONE TIME! That is the only thing that needs to be done, and until that is done, I am DONE making videos and good riddance.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! Taofledermaus 9/10/10 11:50 AM
A partner buddy of mine has had this same issue.   He got 4000 clicks in one Day.   That is either a giant group of nuts or one really obsessive compulsive hater!
 
It's a lose/lose situation.  If you leave the ads up,   you risk losing your adsense and make no money.   Good luck,   I hope the guys mouse button wears out.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! BradenOmnicide 9/10/10 11:53 AM
It's unfortunate, I'm sorry to hear about your friend. I'm just sick of it. I shouldn't have to worry about someone being able to ruin all of my hard work, there should be a protection filter. Thanks and good luck to you as well.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ebbixx 9/10/10 2:22 PM
Unfortunately, if this is a systemic attack on partners it is probably being done using the same sort of bot programs that were probably a huge contributor to how YouTube changed the view count inventory, which of course generates about 20% of all traffic in this forums to this day.  I do hope they find a solution that's less draconian than that, but then I recall making a comment a few weeks ago about cannibal culture that leaves me less than hopeful that the near future will be any better than the recent past.

In other words, no mice will wear out, as this is taking place in virtual space, via automated tools, especially if you're seeing unusual volumes of malicious ad clicks, and there certainly seem to be no shortage of reports to suggest that's just what's going on.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! Teresa_ 9/10/10 2:42 PM
This is terrible that people are targeted and losing their accounts for something that they had no part of.  There should be a review for all the people that have had this happen in the recent months and a way to identify when Partners are being attacked.   Google has technology that can almost pinpoint your front doorstep.  Why can't they identify and block these attackers?
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ebbixx 9/10/10 3:05 PM
Keep in mind, Teresa, thatm so far these report have been vague, at least those I've had time to read.  I would encourage those with a vested interest to conduct their own investigation and present as compelling a case as possible.

It's quite possible the approach being used, if there are blackhats involved, or simply users frustrated past the boiling point with the last few years' trends in GooTube policies -- the patterns might be subtle enough that Google has missed the clues, or grossly underestimated user dissatisfaction -- I really can't be sure. 

And my access is so severely limited that I'm unlikely to get feedback from staff (especially with a national emergency gas explosion crater next to HQ) on whether or not there's any clue inside that this is something other than what Google appears to assume it to be, namely, desperate people in a terrible economy trying to boost revenue with bogus clicks. 

I'm not sure how you would manage to distinguish the two, in fact, since there are ads all over the net offering people paid traffic, most of them probably blatant rip-offs, but this is something I don't have time or resources to dig into much further myself, not unless someone is offering to pay me to do it (and I'm sure one could find much more capable and discrete investigators than myself).

My (constructrive) point being that, if there's to be a fair outcome here, assuming some of this is maliciousness targeted at higher profile accounts, the burden of proof is unfortunately going to be on the community, and it's far more likely community members can come up with a solution than it is to expect much support from staff, at least until there's some strong evidence the community can offer that shows this is something more complicated than a simple reading of patterns seems to be suggesting to them, Google management.


Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ebbixx 9/10/10 3:39 PM
He's far from the only example of an account making such claims.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! BradenOmnicide 9/10/10 3:49 PM
Thanks for all of the replies everyone, I'm thinking about making a video on this subject, we can all comment there and perhaps it will get more attention than this sort of obscure forum. What do you think should I do it?
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ebbixx 9/10/10 3:54 PM
When do we ever hear anything from staff?  At this point I'm lucky to see three or four notes a week from staff that aren't posted in the general forum.  Granted, one of those notes is a weekly summary of issues and warning of oncoming trains, but rarely anything substantive, and Google warned me it might be that way.  We do pass along the info to the staff "memory hole" and sometimes an individual channel gets shut down, but what does that actually accomplish, when the actors can simply open a new channel in a matter of minutes (and probably have dozens of channels already established in reserve to deal with such inconveniences?)

Face it, the YouTube community is on its own.  We/you can organize and devise some kind of plan to deal with this, or sit passively by assuming Google has some special superpowers just because it has such an inflated stock price and business press fanboys write glowing puff pieces about it.  When have corporations, especially huge ones, not had feet of clay?
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! Publisher1 9/10/10 6:45 PM
I'm a Top Contributor over on the AdSense help forums and I'm certainly seeing more than a reasonable amount of inquiries from disabled YouTube publishers complaining about clickbombings.  This is frustrating and we simply don't have many resources over on the AdSense side to help right now.  I have become something of the resident expert on clickbombing, having survived a particularly intense one from a disgruntled disabled publisher who didin't like one of my response to his postings.  The upshot of it was Google staff came to my rescue and when the bots caught up and "disabled" my account I had it restored within 24 hours.  Then two weeks later, staff nominated me to be a Top Contributor.

The problem we have is that the proactive measures to deal with click bombing on websites just don't seem to work well on Youtube.  There is for example an "allowed sites" feature which allows you to ensure that your code cannot be maliciously placed on someone else's site.  You can also use blocking and tracking software to curtail click bombing damage and in a crisis, simply remove your own sites from the Allowed Sites function. Your revenue stops, but you don't lose your account.  It seems the only thing youtube publishers can do when under attack is to remove their stuff as well; I don't know what reporting methods you have and how much data is available, but obviously if there is a sharp increase in activity which cannot be explained.  Since YouTube not the individual publishers hosts the videos, however, many of the safeguards and controls we can use on the conventional AdSense side just don't work here.

All of which paints a pretty frustrating picture and if there is "no one home" on the YouTube management side I guess things won't get better soon.  Perhaps if the noise continues to rise over on my side staff there may take notice and push forward within Internal Google systems to reach over to YouTube, but I just can't be sure how or when this will happen.

It's a mess, indeed.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ebbixx 9/10/10 8:06 PM
I hope someone will take some kind of reasonable action on this... right now all we seem to have is a presumption of guilt, and the usual lack and lag in staff dealing with what admittedly must be a huge number of cases to deal with... and a very toxic level of frustration from some users that I think has to be some part of the story.  However, I am not a partner, so I can't speak well to what the tools are or how partners can realistically defend themselves.

I really appreciate someone with some insight jumping in here!

Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! racing16 9/10/10 9:03 PM
Well I posted this in a different response and only raised one eyebrow. This is a site I stumbbled across by accident. It is a site where people are looking for freelance programmers to create bots and they are willing to pay for the programs. Just go take a look for yourself. It isn't a bogus link but rather a real eye opener as to what people are trying to do with bots on YouTube. http://www.freelancer.com/ just look in the box under youtube and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! rewboss 9/11/10 1:48 AM
This is extremely common, and there's nothing YouTube can do to prevent people from advertising such "jobs". YouTube can (and does) put measures in place to catch these bots out, and if people want to waste their money paying for programs which either won't work or will eventually break, that's their business. Of course, the downside is that the measures YouTube has to put in place then impact negatively on all of us (illegible CAPTCHAs are just the start), but realistically, what can YouTube actually do?

On this tangent, I blogged about something similar just yesterday:

http://www.rewboss.com/index.php?postid=20100910124554080
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! MrMrsAwesome 9/11/10 11:42 PM
If anyone at Google reads this here's what you need to do, and I'm sure you can do it.

You obviously have a program that monitors the clicks and the IP's from which the clicks are occurring because your current program can spot when too many clicks come from one IP and you label it as suspicious activity. Simply adjust the program to stop counting clicks from any IP address that clicks the same add more than a couple times in one day. And while you're at it adjust the program so if a partner accidentally clicks their own adds their clicks can't and wont count. That way good partners don't accidently loose their accounts and any bad partners can't try to boost their revenue by clicking their own adds either. This is not beyond your capabilities - FIX IT! The partners you lose are costing YOU revenue as well. This is common sense. So why haven't you thought of it yet?

Anyone who reads this PASS THIS MESSAGE ON!
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! rewboss 9/11/10 11:58 PM
You do know that bots can refresh their IP addresses constantly, don't you?
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! MrMrsAwesome 9/12/10 12:18 AM
rewboss: yes you're right that wont help against bots they're a whole other problem entierly. But it would still help because there a lot of trolls who don't use bots (too cheap to pay for one and with plenty of time on their hands - I've seen LJ forums where jerks brag about doing that stuff on purpose). And it would also still help by keeping partners from either accidentally or purposely clicking their own adds (providing they don't use a bot). Internet explorer does this stupid thing where while the page is loading it makes a slight jump or jerking motion as it finishes loading. If you're trying to hit pause play or skip ahead in your own video and accidentally land on your own add adsense can hold it against you. (One good reason why I switched to firefox no weird jumpy page on loading). I know putting caps on clicks from certain IP's wont completely solve the problem with invalid clicks but I'm sure it'd solve a good many of them. Right about now any improvement to the adsense system would be greatly appreciated at least pertaining to these specific problems.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! rewboss 9/12/10 2:37 AM
Well, since an IP address, contrary to popular belief, does not identify an individual computer, that would be difficult to do.

In reality, if a partner accidentally clicks on an advert, it makes very much no difference at all. It's when somebody clicks on an advert dozens of times in a short space of time that AdSense takes any notice, but because of the way the IP system works, it's not always possible to know where this is the result of a "click bombing" or the partner is using some kind of bot, or even paying somebody else to do it.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! notdonewithmeyet 9/13/10 8:05 PM
@ugleeee

You said you saw an increase in clicks/views on your youtube and you said it was just because it went viral... my video has gotten almost a million views in a month... but my adsense account was disabled about 2 weeks ago now :(
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ytSandy 9/23/10 11:33 AM
Hey Guys, 

Just wanted to let you know I am in here looking into this with our teams over here. Thanks to all for posting, we will continue to keep an eye on this thread. 

Cheers


Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! BradenOmnicide 9/23/10 12:13 PM
ytSandy the problem is this, I have five AdSense monetized videos and I definitely enjoy Youtube for the great site that it is, unfortunately those that are jealous of our success, people like me that have revenue share videos and full partners is that, anyone that is jealous can simply come by our channels click our ads and send our CTR through the roof and get our AdSense accounts terminated. I had to disable all five of my revenue share videos and private them because of this. If there is a way to stop an ip from clicking on our ads more than one time than that will solve our problem. It's nothing more or nothing less than jealousy. It's a real shame because I and many others that are victims of this have been severely demoralized and it puts a real negative tone out there. Create a video, get revenue sharing enabled and then kiss your AdSense goodbye. It's incredible the level of immorality that these click bombers have but it is quickly becoming an epidemic.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! BradenOmnicide 9/23/10 12:29 PM
Block an ip after it has clicked one time, not several times or a hundred times, one ip one click. And also if the same ip is showing to have clicked several ads on different channels don't count it in the CTR either. If I didn't closely monitor my adsense account I would have lost it, cause they attempted to click bomb Me, attempted and failed miserably.

The maliciousness of the criminals click bombing us will not ever stop because they will always be JEALOUS of us that are successful quality content uploaders. They have no talent and are less than nothing, the only weapon they have is to come to our channels and repeatedly click our ads 100s or 1,000s of times.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! WhistlersBrother 9/23/10 1:02 PM
I have a friend whose AdSense account (and partnership) was recently terminated for "suspicious activity" and he says he had done absolutely nothing, and never asked anyone to click on ads, he claims total innocence. 

I just made partner recently and I noticed that while I VERY rarely got rude troll comments in the past, now I am starting to get some here and there.  Maybe it's just coincidence, but I can't help but think there are a lot of disgruntled haters out there who were rejected for partnership, and/or for whatever other reason, have a vendetta against YouTube and anyone who is a YouTube partner.

It seems amazing to me that this can happen.  With the brains Google has at their disposal, it seems there has got to be something that can be done to prevent malicious attacks from wiping out innocent partners like this.  If Google is ever going to turn a profit on YouTube, they can't afford to lose partners who haven't done anything wrong.

I know it may get murky as far as being able to prove whether suspicious clicks were connected to the partner or were unconnected, so instead of presuming guilt and terminating people's accounts, wouldn't it be a better idea to simply deduct those clicks (the ones identified as suspicious) from the total, and don't pay on them?  This way, partners would not be able to boost their own clicks to begin with and they also would not be in danger of losing their accounts if they've done nothing wrong.  It seems like a win-win for all concerned.  Stop the click bombers, stop any potential fraudulent clicks, and both potential problems are solved.  Some partners may complain whenever they have a deduction on their AdSense for suspicious clicks, but personally I would far prefer dealing with that than to be vulnerable to some a**hole who could wipe out my account just because he picks me for his victim that particular day.

I know AdSense has to punish fraud, and the suggestion above may be met with resistance because nobody gets "punished," but the problem is, there is an assumption of guilt apparently without necessarily having any way of establishing it as fact, so as long as that is the way the policy is enforced, click-bombers will continue to be successful in eroding the profits of Google and YouTube by taking down partners.  Standing on principle for the sake of the principle is not always the most constructive thing to do, and this may be a good example of that.  If you're going to deduct the suspicious clicks no matter what, it seems to me it would be a better policy to presume innocence unless there is clear evidence that the suspicious clicks can be connected back to the partner.  Otherwise, every partner is a sitting duck and YouTube will lose more and more revenue as more and more partners are taken down.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ugleeee 9/23/10 1:27 PM
I recently, due to enlarged CTR numbers, had to use the invalid clicks form just to be on the safe side, and I'm sure I'm not the only one doing this.  Unfortunately this will put an increased workload on Adsense workers who have to sift through the data and determine if anything is less than legitimate.  Under ordinary circumstances, and without all this talk of clickbombing and people getting their accounts revoked, I would not have seen my data as so far out of the ordinary to warrant notifying adsense support, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! OpinionGuy 9/23/10 1:52 PM
I'm in the process of creating a youtube series, which I hope will one day make partner. What I find most troubling and a biggest deterrent from wanting to pursue this, is the threat of click-bombers ruining my chances, and in effect putting to waste the time and money I would invest in this. Until this is resolved, myself, and likely many other promising youtubers, may think twice about putting in the effort.

The voices of those effected will only grow louder until this is resolved.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! BradenOmnicide 9/23/10 2:17 PM
I am not going to even bother creating any more videos until my adsense account is protected. Why bother when some criminal trash click bomber can just rape me like that. All of my revenue share videos have been turned off and I am not turning them back on until there is NO way a click bomber can hurt my adsense account. Good riddance!!!
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! OpinionGuy 9/23/10 2:44 PM
I feel the same way: I would rather wait for a solution, not earning anything in the meantime, than risk a permanent end to any earnings in the event of a click-bomber.

I also fear that this is going to get worse before it gets better. Once the real trolls of the internet get wind of how easy it is to ruin a partner, we can be sure click-bombers are going to multiply until out of control. I feel as though it almost HAS to become a more widespread problem before drastic, immediate actions are taken to protect partners on youtube.

This has to be dealt with before mass click-bombing ensues. This problem can very quickly escalate, wiping out a good chunk of the b-list partners.

Do not underestimate the resources of trolls on the internet.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! OpinionGuy 9/23/10 3:35 PM
I would imagine the major youtubers have a safeguard against something like this from happening. Youtube wouldn't sit by while RWJ or the Shaytards are getting click-bombed and banned.

It's the b-list youtubers that are in danger, not the famous partners.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! OpinionGuy 9/23/10 3:39 PM
I mean, there's a website that is obsessed with this kind of thing. It's easy to do, and has a real effect. They rig internet polls, hack facebook accounts at what seems to be an hourly rate, and do really anything that doesn't take much effort, but ruffles feathers.

THIS would be completely aligned to what they are known for, and I fear if they get wind of it, it may be their next "mass operation".

Like I said, do not underestimate the trolls of the internet.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! OpinionGuy 9/23/10 3:44 PM
In fact, they have in the past caused trouble with youtube, causing all popular videos to redirect to obscene material, some of it pornographic, and others much worse. Youtube fixed the issue that allowed the attack, but MANY people were effected.

The internet is a jungle gym and they are always looming.

I don't mean to flood this thread, but I think it's better for everyone to know that what we see now is minuscule in comparison to what WILL eventually happen if not dealt with.
This message has been hidden because it was flagged for abuse.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! BradenOmnicide 9/23/10 5:38 PM
Let's hope the fix this click bombing issue soon I am losing money and so are a lot of other people that HAD NO CHOICE but to disable our ads and sit and wait.

I never would have even started a Youtube channel had I know that click bombing could just make all of that hard work for MONTHS absolutely worthless!
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! KiddsockProductions 9/23/10 6:11 PM
There is just nothing you can do. I am just so disappointed about losing partnership. I found something I enjoyed doing and wanted to make a living at it. As silly as it is as a SockPuppet on YouTube, I do something completely Unique and was ready to go full time.

There is no benefit of the doubt, there is no due diligence, no warning, no teamwork, no "willing to work with you" as it states in the Adsense FAQ.

I would hope that Partnership would get a little more defensive about this issue the more it grows. These "attacks" our out of our hands and there maybe a backlash from Partners if it keeps getting worse OR if a Big YouTube Parter gets hit. 

What else can we do?
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! notdonewithmeyet 9/26/10 6:54 PM
I wish someone (google? youtube?) would have told me how to watch all those #'s on my adsense account....  and what to be looking for... for suspicious activity/clicks. I got almost a million views of my video in a short amount of time so just figured that's why I was making more. I don't know all the terms and vocabulary and acronyms about what they all stand for... and especially did not know what to look out for. I didn't know there was a form for invalid clicks?
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! KiddsockProductions 9/26/10 9:38 PM
Hey notdonewithmeyet,

I am assuming you were disabled on Adsense. Sounds like you had a viral video. Looks like you want to stay Anonymous or is it the same name on YouTube? That's one of the issues of Ads on YouTube. So if you got a Jump in real traffic/Views to your video page and your Channel page, Then that should be OK. According to Adsense's Help, " there's no need to notify us of a surge in activity, as we continually monitor all clicks and impressions on Google ads to prevent any abuse of the AdSense program." There is NOTHING we can do to protect from "Invalid Activity" on YouTube. Does their "proprietary Automated monitoring system" really work? Their "Dedicated Team" seems to want protect AdWords advertisers from any risk at all cost. THAT is understandable. But then come up with a system that work better for the Publisher AND the Advertiser. Why should the Publisher 

There needs to be a better way of Adsense communicating with Publishers/Accounts INSTEAD of just cutting off Accounts. A warning, or better Monitoring system. Along with the Earnings, a list of questionable pattern of impressions /Clicks. A Statement saying that this amount of impression/views will not be included. Why don;t we have the tools the "Dedicated Team" uses? 

Just being disabled and cut off is just wrong when we are truly attempting to do everything right  It is Legal Under the Term & Conditions of Adsense, but is it Civilly Just? Are any Civil Rights being stepped on?  What is there to protect us as the "Publisher"? Nothing. We are the Victims of a "Internet DriveBy" and the Abumulance rushes to help the Top YouTuber Partners while we sit and die.
 
It is like firing a mechanic at a Car Dealer when a customer decides not to buy a car.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! Taofledermaus 9/26/10 9:41 PM
When it comes down to it we make videos,  and we all don't have advertising degrees,  if any of us do.   Adsense is very confusing to figure out and I couldn't begin to tell what is "normal activity"  or "fraudulent activity"   Adsense seems to be more concerned about keeping things in the dark so no one knows how the system works than to fix the pinholes in the system.    I've seen many partners lose their accounts and it all just makes me nervous.   
 
It would be nice to know if one were to block someone on YT,  if it would block them from clicking ads too.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! notdonewithmeyet 9/27/10 8:44 AM
no my youtube name is notdonewithmeyet.. the cat video (over 2 million views).

yep hope they can "fix" this problem of attacks.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! cecilioamar 9/30/10 6:41 AM
Edit
 
This reply is for ytSandy

I have been looking  everywhere in my YouTube page, stat visits from countries and so on. When I received the disabling e-mail I was mind boggled. I asked my wife and thru a misunderstanding I accused her of invalid activity and blamed her. After talking and brainstorming I began to look into every videos and there comments and I saw what I believe a threat that I had spammed. Unfortunately I, went to this persons channel and this individual has been targeting videos with toddlers not just mine. His threat read the following: http://www.youtube.com/user/lauren6000blue  """"" Fuck up your toddler's i am back i am very mean this time if you ruin my video's i am going to remove your video's this time i mean it""" " "  This is a direct quote from my comments.  In his page you can see further threats and see what other parents had to say. apparently he has targeted a few and actually achieved his goal.  Some other threats in his page include the following " am here ruin children lives and video's
i hate toddler's i want toddler's to die from this world
i am back i am good heath i am going ignore all of you now
""""fuck up your toddler's i am back i am very mean this time if you ruin my video's i am going to remove your video's this time i mean it""" " " " all people i hope you all die today bitch people

His channel is full of threats.  It is a fact that he last logged in around the time my account was disabled. 

It really bothers me that  Ad sense and YouTube where quick in disabling my account but this individual plainly has been targeting videos with toddlers is still on and active. How many other featured videos like mine with a toddler has been targeted and disabled?

Is http://www.youtube.com/user/lauren6000blue violating YouTubes policies and terms. Yet his channel is still up and running. Further more more why isn't this individual being investigated by the FBI.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ebbixx 9/30/10 7:29 AM
Do you know that he isn't being investigated?  If you believe he's not, as someone who could be seen as having been threatened, you carry more weight than most in seeing to it that appropriate law enforcement agencies give this the attention it deserves, or at least the attention such agencies can afford to give in an era obsessed with defunding government.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! Teresa_ 9/30/10 8:52 AM
When you are being threatened by someone, you can report it to YouTube.  If  you feel this fits what is happening to you, go directly to the Help and Safety Tool to report bullying/harassment. You may also want to notify other channels that this person is bullying. 

Help and Safety Tool

http://www.youtube.com/safety_help

YouTube Safety Center

http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/request.py?contact_type=abuse
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ugleeee 9/30/10 8:59 AM
That person's channel is very disturbing.  That threat is right there on their channel, a threat to all 'toddlers'.  The person also has video posted where he/she spies on little kids on one of those bouncy house things in a field.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1PF8YgFZLQ&playnext=1&videos=RUEcZVucBWQ&feature=mfu_in_order

There is something wrong with this person.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! KiddsockProductions 9/30/10 9:04 AM
Then the Question becomes, what to do when someone just attacks. no threats just clicks your ads like crazy? Some, like me, had that issue too.

It is like a Bank Closing a Customer account when someone comes in and robs it. Is the "Robber(s)" making it seem like Channels/Accounts are clicking on their own accounts? THAT is a whole new level and maybe why Appeals to adsense are being rejected.

Hopefully the lauren6000 account/person is being investigated. Very disturbing.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! Teresa_ 9/30/10 9:15 AM
I agree with you ugleeee, it is very disturbing.  I have seen stuff like that and worse, on channels in the past.  They just change their profile information and continue on with their behavior.  I see a lot of loopholes for predatory behavior.  Some of the channels recognize this and flaunt it!!!
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! cecilioamar 9/30/10 9:23 AM
I did what was appropriate, I flagged, spammed and blocked this channel.  I tried reporting it but I don't see a number, I don't see anything but a video and what to do. Unless I did not see it but there is no direct link for reporting this kind of issue. I did not see anything about approaching the police or the FBI. It was not after now, after being disabled and thinking to my self why? I am a novice with no mal intentions and no intentions of over clicking on ads. There where months that I did not look at the Adsense account.  Any innocent person will do what I did. I kept investigating, informing my self. there is allot of info. You will need days of dedicating reading to see what is going on. Well I have pin pointed the threat and it is obvious that this channel is targeting a group of videos he writes that he will get their videos out., What is you tube, Google and Asense doing about it, especially when there is proof.  Read what this channel says " i am going to remove your video's this time i mean it"  the only way is by doing what happened to me. I believe he is targeting featured videos with toddlers. Featured videos are most likely connected with ads. Where are the top Youtube/adsense people. Every one that directs themselves to this link will see how disturbing and how threat full the message behind the channel portrays.  www.youtube.com/user/lauren6000blue
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! Teresa_ 9/30/10 9:48 AM
Kiddsock brings up a good point as well.  Click bombing is a predatory behavior as well.  I would think something like clicking on multiple ads could be monitored when a person is logged in their account.  Maybe the account should be suspended if they click on more than a specific number of the same ad in a short period of time.  If a person is logged out of an account, no more than 1 click should be registered or permitted. Adsense is still going to measure impressions.  Right now the predators are being rewarded for taking down channels.  If they get suspended, they just create another account and start all over. The small Partner channels and Individual Partners need some sort of protection!
 
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ebbixx 9/30/10 10:20 AM
@cecilioamar - Police agencies have limited budgets.  They usually only investigate complaints that are sent to them by concerned citizens and criminal acts that are too obvious and too hard to ignore.  They are also often hampered in what they can do to prevent crimes, unless there is compelling evidence of crimes already commited.  

I didn't see the specific videos that have been mentioned above, but if someone is stalking children, and putting their images online, that's a clear violation of privacy, at the very least, and if the parents are made aware of it, in most cases they will make a compelling complaint to resolve the issue.  But to do something about it yourself, unless it was your child, you need to figure out who is being shown, contact the parents, and suggest they contact both YouTube and local police, especially if the acts were recent or there are multiple incidents.

In among the help center pages there are recommendations that users contact police when there is a suspicion of some criminal behavior.  But even if there weren't, contacting police when appropriate is much more likely to result in action than contacting YouTube, whose liabilities are mainly civil.

Without a credible complaint, however, both law enforcement and YouTube are likely to assume that the video might be consensual, or might be a joke in poor taste.  Because free expression is involved, without contrary evidence from someone who can claim injury, the usual course of action is to take no action.

Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! cecilioamar 9/30/10 10:46 AM
 Dear ebbix,

I have read the above post. I believe with things going the way they are. Law enforcement, YouTube and Google would be on top of the issue if someone commented " I will bomb ....." I will kill the pres....." and so on.  This individual is making it clear that he wants to harm children and even if he does not do it physically he is doing it by hurting the channel they are on. Such as using means to click on ads, as we all now see. It is the way this individual takes his hate and action for the meantime. In a more serious note, words become actions. Any one who repeats the words he is saying and I'm not the only one he has posted these threats to, will one day actually hurt a toddler.  How would you feel if you where in my shoes?
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ebbixx 9/30/10 12:20 PM
I'm not contesting that.  But this is a user-to-user forum.  If you want to make sure YouTube is aware, you need to contact them by mail or fax, since that's about the only way you can reach them directly at this point.  Or you might try a lawyer.  

Same goes for police agencies.  I think they probably will act, but first they need to be informed, and those directly threatened are in the best position to bring pressure, since they are among those most directly threatened.  My toddlers are now teenagers, and I have many other threats to pay attention to.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ervans 9/30/10 1:15 PM
It looks like lauren6000blue is a disturbed child. The teens other channel RainbowLettuce http://www.youtube.com/user/RainbowLettuce#p/a/u/1/mc8fFQON2Gg
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! cecilioamar 9/30/10 3:08 PM
I will try to get the media's attention. I will write to Arnold Diaz on shame on you and to Help me Howard.  I bet when the media gets involved Youtube will suspend the account and act if nothing ever happened.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! KiddsockProductions 9/30/10 3:14 PM
ebbixx: Contacting them directly does not seem to help. I know they have small teams to service MANY MANY Channels. Adsense tends to Ignore you after so many communications. They even state they in their FAQ

Cecilioamar: what's your channel? or you can contact me via my channel Kiddsock. I might have something for you about contacting Media. They are starting to reach out about this.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ebbixx 9/30/10 4:48 PM
From what I had time to review, I tend to agree with ervans, at least on first impression.  While I share the concerns of parents, I would also hope you exercise caution and restraint in bringing a carnivorous media circus into the mix.  Then again, maybe I'm being hyperaware at the moment because of the college student not far from here who jumped of the GW Bridge awhile ago after being cyber-harassed.  Think before you leap to conclusions or drastic measures.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! cecilioamar 9/30/10 9:30 PM
My channel is http://www.youtube.com/user/melodyandannelise kiddsock please e-mal me at my channel thanks.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! cecilioamar 10/1/10 3:10 PM
Everyone who is reading this I reported www.youtube.com/user/lauren6000blue channel. The crazy thing about this is that his channel has featured videos and is getting ads.  I don't get this, many are being cut off Adsense but it is ok to put threats on other channels be predatory, deranged and a menace to society. Not too mention that his threats are being shown in his recent activities as far back as 20 hours ago. Yet his ads live on and so are the videos.  This is an outrage.  He is bomb clicking and nothing is being done about it.  He is determined to eliminate some videos and is doing a good job at it.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! cecilioamar 10/1/10 7:23 PM
Here once again I find that Asense anad Youtube don't care.  Everyone can plainly see that this channel is predatory, there is a person who wants to kill children, stalks them and shows how and where. This channel is not hiding it's evil intentions and Youtube does not do anything about it because it is partnered through a sponsor. This is  an outcry. This individual violates so many things and is sponsored and partered with Adsense. The Channel makes it clear that it will target viodeos with toddlers and will do everything to harm the channel as well and yet Adsense and/youtube say that they will disable your account because of invalid click activities. I STRONGLY believe that Adsense should go after the criminals who are doing the damage. many like this one in particular who plainly is not hiding their motives.  Unbelievably, this Channel is still on with ads sponsored by Youtube and adsense. This is crazy. Where is every one out there. There is a loop hole and people are just scratching their heads.
 
Great.... Youtube is allowing this and is actually sponsoring this Channel.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! WhistlersBrother 10/1/10 10:00 PM
ceciloamar, maybe I missed it, but I don't see anywhere that you acknowledged the post above by tjw1963 where he gave you the link to report the abuse to YouTube.  If that user made this comment on your video, you need to go to this link and report it.  If you do, then YouTube will probably notice all the other comments this person has made as well.  I don't know if it will help your click-bomb situation, but it may help take care of the other problem.  Use this link!  This is how you report this user to YouTube.  It will take you through a series of questions and will allow you to select the exact video the offensive comment was made on, and it will pick out that user's comment on the video so when you submit it, they know exactly what you are reporting.


YouTube Safety Center

http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/request.py?contact_type=abuse

Also -- regarding the ads on that channel, I didn't watch every video, but the two that I saw ads on have copyrighted music in them, so it is very likely that these ads have been monetized for the benefit of the copyright holder, which means the channel owner is not making any money off these ads.  Zero.  Some record labels and/or copyright holders, instead of having videos removed from YouTube when their music is used without permission, instead they have the option to make YouTube put ads on there and give the ad revenue to the copyright holder.  I suspect this is the case with this user's videos.  I do not believe they are a partner, and they don't have enough views on those videos to have individual revenue sharing on them either.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! cecilioamar 10/2/10 3:21 AM
WhistlersBrother I did read tjw1963 post and I did send in a report.  How long it takes for something to happen?  I also have read the latter part to your last post. I believe that google should redefine their policy. Many people have been victimized and have been stripped from their privlidge to have Adsense. Many channels will fall on a daily basis but I only see a few that will fight back. Those that really do I truely feel for because I have actually gone to channels that are worthy of being reinstated. If YouTube and Adsense take the responsibilty to place ads and use people's channel with  their videos, then they should implement a better tracking system and a better fool proof system that shuts over-clickers automatically, then the system should inform the channel of the activity. It gives the publisher the chance to make a choice. At that point they can temporarily disable their ads, locate the person who is doing the attack and make a block them and so on.
 
What gets me is that you'l get an idiot from anywhere on earth that feels like overclicking on your ads then boom your blamed for it. That is not cool. Not everyone is on Youtube every moment of their lives. In my case, I work and sleep.  Am I supposed to be tracking these over clicking every single moment of the day  only to avoid being disabled?  If this is the case then they should send automatic e-mails right away informing of the unsual activity.
 
Now I have read of those Bots and the supposed Indian clickers. Then there should be a software that identifies these Isp adresses and blocks ads from hitting these computers.
 
At this point I believe that All the top rated publishers have had overclicking, but are protected only because thre are thousands of viewers seeing their videos. Which also makes me think how acurate these numbers really are.
 
One last thing.  When I  made my appeal I mistakenly wrote a wrong publishing ID and guess what? I still got a response and a denial. It almost makes me think that my appeal was never read and analyzed as they claimed. 
 
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ebbixx 10/2/10 5:52 AM
Quoting the Terms of Service for this forum:

"Much of the content of Google Help Forum -- including the contents of specific postings -- is provided by and is the responsibility of the person or people who made such postings. Google does not actively monitor the content of Google Help Forum, and takes no responsibility for such content. Instead, Google merely provides access to such content as a service to you. [emphasis mine]

By its very nature, Google Help Forum may carry offensive, harmful, inaccurate or otherwise inappropriate material, or in some cases, postings that have been mislabeled or are otherwise deceptive. We expect that you will use caution and common sense and exercise proper judgment when using Google Help Forum.

Google does not endorse, support, represent or guarantee the truthfulness, accuracy, or reliability of any communications posted via Google Help Forum or endorse any opinions expressed via Google Help Forum. You acknowledge that any reliance on material posted via Google Help Forum will be at your own risk."

The complete text can be read at the Terms of Service link which appears at the bottom of this page, to the right of the copyright notice.

In other words, no one here can tell you what the response time to your formal report is likely to be with any certainty.  At least not unless a staff member does so, and that's fairly unlikely for many practical reasons.  

Since it hasn't been posted to this page, here at least is the link that now exists for reporting suspicious clicks to AdSense.  Not saying this is necessarily adequate but it is the tool related to this issue that I'm aware of.  https://www.google.com/adsense/support/bin/request.py?contact_type=invalid_clicks_contact

Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! cecilioamar 10/2/10 6:49 AM
I wish I knew the stuff I know now, unfortunately, 99% (my opinion) of the publishers do not know about all of this. My point is even with all the policies out there concerning this issue. More and more stuff comes out.  I wish I knew how to defend my self rather than get a surprise e-mail saying that I was disabled. I still believe that there should be a warning before such things happen. Most of all, every Novice out there are not aware of the malicious ring clickers and the clicking bots and so on. I personally was not aware. Adsense should give a warning of such activities, but they won't because it would create fear to their advertisers. And this is the truth.  Even when I received the threatening comment I just flag spammed it. I thought that by doing so it would create a red flag to Youtube. To my experience it did not.  To the mentioned above I guarantee any reader that all of my post is accurate. My opinions can be my opinion but my experience is real and accurate. ebbixx how did you became a top contributor? What is your gain in all of this?
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ebbixx 10/2/10 7:51 AM
I became a TC over 2 years ago because I made the mistake of trying to sort out technical glitches when YouTube started bringing HD into the picture.  Before that I had all but given up on YouTube, and if I were more rational I probably would have stuck to that original assessment.  In fact, most of the video that I share is shared elsewhere.  The vast majority of video I post here is specifically aimed at sorting out encoding problems or looking for ways to minimize the horror created by YouTube's encoding process.  But the puzzle part of figuring out YouTube bugs, audio defects and encoding glitches keeps my mind active, and maybe some fraction of the time it helps someone out, which is more than you can say for solving crossword puzzles.  

There's also the occasional benefit of getting to play with new Google tools and features ahead of time, and getting info on new tools that sometimes are actually useful. 

The original aims that led me to become active in this forum's almost inaccessible predecessor were entirely selfish.  I'd rendered a lot of 16:9 widescreen material as 4:3 (academy) ratio videos with letterboxing, so when the widescreen viewer was introduced, almost all my videos (along with millions of others) were suddenly swamped by a huge black box on all sides.  I wanted to see if I could get enough feedback from YouTube to prevent nasty surprises in the future, by finding out what I could about what YouTube was doing and whether they had a plan that I could use to save myself further surprises, not to mention lost views if I felt compelled to upload a better quality version of the same video.

On this topic, I personally agree and a TC from AdSense has likewise posted frustrations about the current state of AdSense regarding "click bombing" and on the selfish side I do have an AdSense account attached to my blog, which at this rate may generate a check sometime around my 80th birthday, if Google doesn't find an excuse to not pay for the ads it has placed on that blog over the past year or so.  Then again, I only signed up for the AdSense account there so that I could try to make some sense of the various wackiness I read about in these forums, I don't maintain the blog actively enough for it to be a real money maker, so maybe I'm still just looking for another puzzle with some practical applications?  Granted, those with real traffic and serious income from AdSense probably cannot look at this with anything like the bemusement I can muster, since my investment is far, far less than theirs.  

Yet, even though my investment is small, I do have a sense of how frustrated I would feel if I felt I had no choice but to spend even 15 minutes (more likely an hour) each day scanning for anomalous views that might cause AdSense to robo-reject my account.

In the case of this thread I can (and have) "escalated" the issue to staff, which experience tells me has unpredictable and usually inadequate results, especially when policy, money and legal liabilities may be an issue.  My reason for posting the ToS quote was an attempt to make clear that this forum is not seen by Google as an official channel for dealing with substantial issues, except to whatever degree sharing information among users might lead to something more constructive and/or satisfying to those affected by Google's policies and management decisions.

One reason I usually avoid these types of issues is the feeling that any overpromising or any misphrasing on my part could be interpreted as a statement on behalf of Google, which it isn't and cannot be.  I now feel fairly chumped at the amount of time I've spent trying to say, essentially, I don't have access to the inner sanctum, and I'm not a part of their decision-making process, at least not unless those decisions change in part because someone inside decides to push for a change based on something I've said, or as acknowledgement of a logical fallacy that others and myself might have pointed out.

I'm not saying anything to try to hamper the discussion, but I don't want people to read this and get the impression that Google management are paying close attention.  It's my understanding that for most Google products, the staffers tasked with responding in the forums are fairly junior and fairly restricted in what they're allowed to say, especially if they want to move up at some point and do something other than provide general announcements in these forums.  We're actually fortunate here that Liz, in her role as Google Guide, has been here as long as she has.  My sense is that few other Google Help Forums have nearly as much continuity.  Then again, things can always change.

Sorry for the novella.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! KiddsockProductions 10/2/10 10:18 AM
Hey ebbixx,

You have no idea how much people appreciate your posts. Sometimes just for someone to acknowledge the issue can diffuse someone frustration and anger.  So thank you for you awesome work.  

It is ashame that something is not set up for Adsense to communicate issues it sees  BEFORE getting Disabled. It is like taking a kid to the principles office and expelling term, because someone blew up the science lab. But supposedly they have the evidence. But I, like the kid, know that I did not do it. So are successfully viewed videos considered "Suspicious Activity." So then their " Proprietary Automated" tools need to send an email asking. "We noticed that there are Many Clicks on VideoX and there are only so many views. or that they are so many views in this amount of time and there are not that many views.  Just something to explain what their system sees. Then ask,  do you have an explanation for this? I am sure they remove revenue because they see this invalid activity. That is fine by me. I have always tried to do the right thing and follow the rules

I HATE having to focus on this problem, and would rather focus on Making videos. After this, THAT is what I am going to do. It is just frustrating that basic rights and principles seems to stomped on instead of using Teamwork, Communications and Growth. It would be so much better and add Value to Partners and Google.
Again, I understand rules/policy is in place is to protect, but basically is feels like there are no Rights once the Disabling occurs. Their FAQ states that they will no longer communicate with you.

"Can my account be reinstated after being disabled for invalid click activity?"
Please also bear in mind that once we've reached a decision on your appeal, further appeals may not be considered, and you may not receive any further communication from us."

Hopefully we can work WITH them. I am in no way trying to work against them
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! cecilioamar 10/2/10 9:43 PM
Ebbixx,

I have read your last post and I am overwhelmed by your sincere hospitality. For this reason I applaud your help. Forums like this one in particular are hard to find because I see honest people taking their time to get answers. In you case you are taking your time to help others.  A recognition worthy to be shown.  As many others express hatefulness and desire to put down Google for disabling them, I want to contribute in the proper education of understanding Google's policies.  Adsense and Google aims primarily to their protection at the expense of limited rights to the majority of their publishers. And this is something that is not right.  Despite the fact that Google is the Giant of a network and company that it is, it still lacks the interest or the technology to help the victims of true invalid activity disablement. My voice is just one I hope that true victims come out and voice their concern as well. I don't discard the fact that many accounts have been disabled with just reasons. Usually, the guilty party will act in fear.  I wish I can look at statistics and I bet that most publishers who do their own clicking are under aged, I would consider even thinking that young adults would do the same. College students and people struggling in this economy.  Then, I weigh the fact, that if money is an issue then How do they get the money to pay for the internet and and their mobile phones.  I another thing that I have brain stormed is that I also believe that Adsense should tally up all all free WiFi Isp numbers and not allow accounts coming from them. If you cannot afford to have the internet legally then you should not be in Adsense. Of course this is my suggestion. How many accounts are being used from free WiFi places? Things like these should red flag their system immediately.

 I have also thought of those with wireless systems in their homes. Google and Adsense cannot control that but a warning should be given if invalid activities are coming from legal services it will alert the publisher to act quickly and revenues should stop immediately until the publisher sends a form with their correction and investigations. With all respect the appeal form should be given after the publisher fails to fix the problem. With these implementations Adsense can always come back and say we gave you a warning we did all we could to help you.

Out of all the forums that I have read, the YouTube and Adsense disabling seems to be the greatest problem of them all.  Something should be done to YouTube. YouTube needs a system to protect the publisher just as much as they protect their advertisers.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ebbixx 10/3/10 6:07 AM
Thanks to both of you for the kind words.

I hate to naysay, but blocking free WiFi as a "solution" seems to me to be making a bad assumption.  

Example: Some practical things have changed a little for me lately and I'm spending much more time driving than I was a few months ago.  I do still have a costly paid connection from home base, but if I were more sensible I might be considering cancelling it.  One way to keep my living costs in check would be for me to rely much more on free WiFi for most things than on my home connection, and if I were only uploading highly compressed, moderate resolution vlog videos that might be a doable alternative.  It might have even been tempting to cancel my costly cable connection.  Consider, as your  example, instead of a scruffy, shifty 20something schemer (somewhat of a cliché, in any case) think of an executive blogger constantly on the move.  Picture George Clooney's character from Up in the Air, or a slightly less extreme case.

I really wouldn't want to have to trust Google to get the algorithm right for something that could have so many different causes and so many different motives.  Scammers will find a way no matter what, and as in this current mess with AdSense, trusting, busy users wind up being the main losers.  The scammers always seem to find another way.  Of course, without Google's records, I'm just speculating as to how many AdSense accounts are being terminated justifiably, compared to the percentage who have been victims of click bombing.

I definitely agree Google should be doing this better, but making even more complicated restrictions seems to me to be a recipe for further confusion and unfairness, but something that I hope they would never consider, even if their reason might be that doing so would cause them to disable huge numbers of revenue sources.  My impression is that very few AdSense accounts are generating enough revenue to pay for 24 hour vigilance and a really high-end connection.  In the case of non-video bloggers especially, you'd have to be very, very popular to generate the kind of income from AdSense to even cover the costs of a high-speed cable connection -- I imagine there are many people running on tight budgets who may have nothing more than a NetBook and a daily trip to a library, bookstore, restaurant or other location with free WiFi and most of them are not crooks.   

Hopefully, Google is realizing this is a problem for them too, but even if they are working on it at top speed, the fix isn't going to be instantaneous.

It's already been said, but for now the only working answer seems to be either to monitor click traffic at least daily and be proactive about reporting the suspicious stuff.  I suppose the alternative might be to disable your AdSense account from your own side until Google comes up with a better plan.  Not that either choice is anywhere near ideal.

Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! cecilioamar 10/3/10 6:35 AM
With all said and done I still believe that a warning system should go into effect. This will protect both the publisher and the advertiser. This is something that can be done, especially with You Tube. The reputation of both You Tube and Adsense would be escalated. This will discourage the millions of disabled to go and make  back door accounts.  For how much Adsense claims that they would be watching anyone who reopens an account it is being done successfully from all over the world. 
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! thet0rp 10/8/10 6:29 PM
i am disabling my adds now..i got 1300 clicks in i day with 400 views hello!
and not to mention that there are partners in my community that have been terminated by click bombers
if this keeps up google stocks are about to feel the same pain invalid activity pulling your money out
im pulling my adds also if its not allreaday to late
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ugleeee 10/8/10 7:06 PM
@thet0rp if you haven't already, then immediately fill out the invalid click form:

https://www.google.com/adsense/support/bin/request.py?contact_type=invalid_clicks_contact

I'm sure time is of the essence.
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Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! cecilioamar 10/8/10 8:18 PM
thet0rp,

You are doing the right thing. Please post if what your doing have given you a good result. It will help others in the future.  


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Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! KiddsockProductions 10/15/10 3:09 PM
Another Victim:

Check out the comments too. Trying to start up a Twitter Awareness Campaign too: @MrCaseyNunez

So maybe this will help get some attention of Google and Top YouTube Partners. Adsense totally ignores me now. 

A couple weeks ago PeterCoffin Slammed me for putting my Opinion out there to try to get awareness. Was very Foul. Very Unbecoming a YouTube Partner.  Then he blocked me and had more nasty words about me. CyberBully? I did not stoop to his level, I just called him out on his foul language. Makes me Suspicious why, but who knows. Does he know something?
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! cecilioamar 10/15/10 6:27 PM
Very sad too know that this is happening and nothing is being done about. In another forum I noted how the person who click bombed me e-mailed me with another Youtube Channel just to let me know that one of her account was hacked and that she has a new one she followed her mesage. All her channels are linked in one way or another.  The new channel has other subscribers that like what she does. By the way this click bomber is a minor who targets videos with children. She cannot click bomb my Ads because I am now disabled. But she is targeting other victims with her new channel. AdSense failed in one thing, they should add to their policies the following: "If you are a victim of click bombing you will be disabled for invlid click activity, just because your a target place you a risk to our Advertisers"
 
This is sad for many YouTube channels. Very sad indeed Kiddsock.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! tomleeman 10/15/10 9:57 PM
I just had my ad sense account disabled. It took me over 3 years to build my account. I had almost 600 videos with untold hours of production. I have 1610 subscribers and average about 25,000 hits a day. Then yesterday I get an e-mail saying I'm out- fired. I was building a great channel with a good income stream. The way the economy is god knows I need the money. I thought I was building a business. I was a good partner.  ( And of course there is no one to call or e-mail). Draconian. I thought Google's motto was "Do no Evil"
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! cecilioamar 10/15/10 11:46 PM
AdSense failed in one thing, they should add to their policies the following:
 

WARNING

 
"If you become a victim of click bombing you will be disabled for invalid click activity.  In the event that your channel  gets click bombed it will be flagged by our AdSense team and you will be disabled because you unwillingly become a risk to our Advertisers"
 
This especially true for everyone in YouTube!
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! KiddsockProductions 10/19/10 5:32 PM
Well it looks like it MAY have happened to Spricket24/Karen Alloy.  but got it fixed within Minutes? Interesting. don;t know the whole story yet.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! HistoryTours 10/23/10 9:35 AM
After several Partners I know lost their adsense to click bombing I got a message telling me that my channel was next I wrote Google/Youtube right away but was too late and lost my adsense.
I filed the appeal but it was Denied even tho I have post dated time stamped copies of my E mails to Youtube in the days before my account fell.
on our channel we invested time travel and money into traveling as we covered the Gulf Oil Crisis and was about to actually invest several thousand dollars in better camera and equipment yet we have fallen to Haters who clearly Control Youtube/Google R.I.P. Channel  http://www.youtube.com/user/historytours
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! cecilioamar 10/23/10 10:07 AM
HistoryTours- I had a message where a channel threatened me as well. My spikes in YouTube views where directly associated with this threat. I made it clear in my appeal in it was denied as well. I agree with what you wrote 100%. They don't care especially when it comes from YouTube.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ugleeee 10/23/10 10:12 AM
Wow that's terrible, man.  322 videos too.  Something has to be done about this.  I understand that no one should rely at all upon revenue from adsense, but that isn't the reality in today's world.  Every little piece of income helps, and for me anyway, if I lost my channel and revenue stream (even though I'm only IVP, they do pretty well), it would put me in a real bad spot.  Google has to realize that they aren't just disabling accounts, that they are screwing with people's families and well being.  I mean, when you build up a bunch of videos like you have it ceases to become just a hobby after awhile and is more of a part time job with useful part time income.  You just don't expect it to be taken away from you unfairly.

The most surprising thing about this is that it is run by Google, who seems to run everything else in a more professional and careful manner.

I hope you get your channel back.  Appeal, and re-appeal if it doesn't work the first time.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ugleeee 10/23/10 10:34 AM
I gotta say, this whole clickbombing epidemic has caused me to be ultra nice to even the most vitriolic comment posters.  Most of them I just block/delete comment without even corresponding as that seems the safest way to not ruffle the wrong person's feathers.  How sad has this become?
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! cecilioamar 10/23/10 11:19 AM
Google needs a dedicated team to help out with this issue. Not only with their engineers but also with professionals that deals with education and human behavior. A Psychiatrist  with a specialty in human behavior. Someone with a PhD in Education. In the team I would have one of the best top contributors who see these forums everyday. This team would not be complete without a publisher who has been affected by the disabling and has not violated the policies.

I'm advocating for a fair YouTube /Adsense and Adword system that protects both the publisher and the advertisers in turn will increase the confidence and trust of everyone and ENCOURAGE HONESTY.

Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! KiddsockProductions 10/23/10 4:57 PM
There maybe a need to get lawyers involved. If Bigger Partners are getting disabled and then getting their accounts right back because they bitch and moan because of the traffic/views they draw, how is that fair? A "Partner" is a Partner no matter what amount of Subscribers, views or Channel views. It's time they treated us ALL fairly. I have continued to email and appeal Adsense and they have completely ignored me. Maybe we need to go Up the Chain of command and get the attention of higher ups. SOMETHING has to be done. 

I was JUST getting momentum with success and Adsense really messed that up.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! ugleeee 10/23/10 6:03 PM
Is there a law that says that Google/Youtube has to treat their content providers fairly?
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Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! KiddsockProductions 10/24/10 3:05 PM
When it comes right down to it, No "Rights" at all. If I was a Big Corporation and I was making a substantial amount of money, I would have definitely gone the legal route. I am sure that is what Spricket24 and sxephil did, but who knows. something went on with their channels, but nothing i can confirm. Just a gut Feeling.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! cecilioamar 10/24/10 3:58 PM
Google has the technology too limit a click per Ad per computer. IT is widely used.  They don't implement it because it might not be cost effective. We all have seen the Ads. Usually, it's an Advertisement from one company over and over again. So you go to the other channel and guess what? You see the same companies Ad again. Sometimes they will alternate to 3 or 4 but it is not a constant stream of different Ads. If they want to be fair then they have to do things right. First AdSense should implement a fool proof system. Google should give you an option to stop all click counts from your computer. Just in case there are accidental clicks or even intentional ones. Second- Give the publisher a Warning when a spike occurs and have an automatic stop to your Ads to avoid invalid clicks. Third- Give the publisher the chance to see where the attacks and spikes are coming from and have an option to block and report the Ip number.  If they want to protect the advertiser why not correct the problem by pinpointing the attacker.  Now, I bet that some one will read this and say well there are softwares and stat counts and some other stuff to aid you. And there will be others that will say well you have to be proactive and not have a life while you watch for unusual activities and then report them.  I have the answer. What ever system is in place now can be compared to a caveman's method of defense. It does not work. You need to keep on shutting your Ads until the click bomber gets tired. Really do they get tired. They are growing in numbers and it is being ENCOURAGED by Google itself.  

Read what I wrote a while back.
Re: AdSense Click Fraud "Click Bombing" INNOCENT VICTIMS WE ARE SICK OF IT! KiddsockProductions 10/24/10 4:40 PM
cecilioamar,

The issue with blocking IP addresses and Internet Area is that IP addresses Constantly change and you never know who you are blocking. Your IP address could change 3 times in one week an you would never know it. Systems, routers and computers automatically adjust and reconnect to the internet. Windows and MacOS have gotten that down so well now.

Definitely agree with you about the warning system. Automated system message to employees who then send out a warning to the Publisher. Plus we need more control and data in the adsense controls so that WE can block or invalidate Clicks. It's there, but it is that proprietary that we suffer?

There HAS to be something to tell the Publisher where the attack/clicks are coming from. There maybe "privacy" issues, but at least go after the people that are creating the extra Clicks and Attacks. Prosecute the Guilty, NOT the innocent.

Now how to get word to Advertisers? Not something I want to do. Not something really allowed to do. But they should know. REALLY they should. 


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