Categories: Crawling, indexing & ranking :

Website has dropped 15 pages on 5 weeks

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Website has dropped 15 pages on 5 weeks Hunts 7/18/12 6:22 AM
I had www.removalstofrance.net between position3 and position 5 on page 1 of google for over 2 years.
I cannot work out what filters are causing the problem, but the site has dropped to the bottom of page 15, and is still falling.
Can anybody throw any light on this for me.
I have reached a point that I have no hair left to tear out.

Thanks for any advice in advance.
Re: Website has dropped 15 pages on 5 weeks LThompTX 7/18/12 6:31 AM
Exactly how many of the "removal" domains you own?
Re: Website has dropped 15 pages on 5 weeks Hunts 7/18/12 6:43 AM
We have 30 domains, but each site is based on the country you are moving to.
The purpose of the individual sites was to allow people to read content that is relevant to the country they are moving to or from.
They all use the brand HUNTS INTERNATIONAL REMOVALS, and the main site simply directs you to the relevant country biased site from this page.
http://www.hunts-international.co.uk/international-removals.asp

Re: Website has dropped 15 pages on 5 weeks JohnMu 7/19/12 1:47 AM
Hi Hunts

Looking at the various sites, it looks like they are all pretty much identical. Is the plan to create a separate domain for every location that you would transport material to? My recommendation would be to focus on a single website, working to make sure that it's the best it can possibly be, instead of duplicating the content like this. As mentioned in http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=66359 "However, in some cases, content is deliberately duplicated across domains in an attempt to manipulate search engine rankings or win more traffic. Deceptive practices like this can result in a poor user experience, when a visitor sees substantially the same content repeated within a set of search results." 

Focusing on a single website makes it much easier for our algorithms to understand your site, the services you're providing, and the regions that you service. Splitting that into separate sites for each location that you ship to not only makes it harder for our algorithms, but also for users (imagine if the post office did that). 

Cheers
John
Re: Website has dropped 15 pages on 5 weeks Hunts 7/19/12 3:30 AM
Thanks for the reply to the question.
The problem that I have is that 90% of the content for moving to a specific country is the same. It is only things like what you can and cannot take with you, emigration documents and information about the country, so the 10% that is different is very useful to the person using the site.
This has always worked well for the user as when they get to the relevant country site, even though the buttons all look identical, when you click on certain pages the content it is only about that specific country.
What I was trying to avoid was every site looking different, as this our goal is to make the site simple to use. The about page will be the same, the contact page will be the same, the terms page will be the same, but if we used just one site when you click on the about page. how would you be able to then click on the relevant documentation download page or read the current news about that specific country as you have left the country site and gone back to the main site (www.hunts-international.co.uk).
For example : You only require a documentation page for Deep sea removals, European removals do not require this link. So only Deep sea sites have this sort of information. using one site would not allow you to demonstrate this as easily as we do now.

This is the only reason that the sites have been built in this way. As you have correctly pointed out, the sites look the same and have the same headers, footers and buttons, this is because we are promoting the brand "Hunts International Removals".
 It has taken us several years of communicating with people using our sites to allow us to keep fine tuning them to make the users experience as simple as possible.

From what you are saying the problem seems to be that we need to concentrate more on the Google algorithm rather than listening and doing what people using our companies websites have said that want to see.

Whoever uses our websites will see a site that looks the same wherever they end up, they will never have any doubt that they are on the Hunts International Removals website and they are only ever one click away from the information that they require. Is that not more important than an algorithm.
I dont want to make our sites harder to use and make the user have to keep drilling down further simply to satisfy an algorithm, I want to satisfy the people that we are helping to move.
 

Re: Website has dropped 15 pages on 5 weeks cristina 7/19/12 4:22 AM
Have a look at alternate hreflang annotations as a way to indicate to Google when you have duplicate content,
 http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=189077


Re: Website has dropped 15 pages on 5 weeks GoldieBolx 7/19/12 4:24 AM
I have read this a couple of times now and understand both sides of the arguement . .however, on this occasion I will come down on the side of Google ..

If you are building the Brand of Hunts International, why would you want or even need to spread the brand around between so many different domains? You could easily rank very well in search results globally using just the one domain.

I shall use an example to prove the point. When I was taken on by a company here in the UK to sort out their website woes, the first thing I did was to remove over 40 domains to concentrate on the core business. The core business, since making this move has increased by 600% in just over a year and has more hits to keyword phrases relevant to the business than they ever had using the 40 domains method.

It's just something to think about ... 

Goldie...
Re: Website has dropped 15 pages on 5 weeks Hunts 7/19/12 4:45 AM
I am very grateful for all this information, as it is all very useful.
The problem that I have is the fact that Worldwide Removals is quite different to most other business.
We have very specific information for people moving to different countries, which was why our main website has the link to choose which country your are moving to or from - http://www.hunts-international.co.uk/international-removals.asp.
This gives the person the chance to chose which country they are moving to, and the site the get to is based on that country.
This gives us the ability to add news stories about that country, information about that country, testimonials about that country.
And it also means that our main site can display general information at removals to any country.

The entire concept was to make all the sites look the same so that the user felt they were still on the same website but only the relevant content was different.

The problem that this has now caused is the fact the the micro sites initially got indexed rather than  our main site.
This was never our objective, our objective was simply to make our website very simple to use, but more importantly to allow us to add whatever relevant content we though was relevant for that particular country, leaving the man website as simply an interface.

I have since added country specific page to our main site as to try to get some sort of page rankings back.
This however to me is not providing the user information as relevant as the method we have been using for years, but I have got to follow this process to get enquiries at the same level as before the Penguin and panda updates.

 
Hunts 7/19/12 4:47 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Website has dropped 15 pages on 5 weeks Hrgot 7/19/12 7:18 AM
Typically John Mu offers good counsel. He doesn't jump in on many conversations. You may have all the reasons in the world why you are doing things the way you are doing them but he is telling you how Google operates so if you want better results consider what he provided.
Re: Website has dropped 15 pages on 5 weeks cristina 7/19/12 7:54 AM
Check if you are interlinking a lot between the sites, without nofollow, that might be perceived as a domain farm.
I think that if you use correctly link rel canonical or link rel alternate hreflang for duplicate content for multiple countries you could continue to use the micro-sites,
but, as JohnMu wrote, a single site would help you consolidate search results.


Re: Website has dropped 15 pages on 5 weeks GoldieBolx 7/19/12 8:33 AM
Why couldn't all those micro sites be internal directories on your site relevant to the countries?

that way, you could still get all of your relevant information, updates, reviews etc all under one roof and build the brand ..


Re: Website has dropped 15 pages on 5 weeks Hunts 7/20/12 1:57 AM
Every reply has been very useful, and I have taken it all on board.
John Mu sounds a very useful man to know with a vast knowledge of how Google works, so I would be a fool not to listen to his advice.
It is just a shame that we need to make so many changes to satisfy an algorithm when the sites do everything that the people using want them to do.
Re: Website has dropped 15 pages on 5 weeks Hunts 7/20/12 1:59 AM
Ref : GoldieBolx.
That is exactly what I have started to do, I am rebuilding the country sites in subdirectories of the main website. I assume that also means that I will not have to worry about duplicate content as it is all in the same website.
Re: Website has dropped 15 pages on 5 weeks Hunts 7/20/12 2:01 AM
And I would like thank JohnMu for replying to my question.
The information that I have got from all of your replies has been very helpful.
Thank you all for taking the time to reply.
Re: Website has dropped 15 pages on 5 weeks GoldieBolx 7/20/12 2:11 AM
On Friday, 20 July 2012 09:59:37 UTC+1, Hunts wrote:
Ref : GoldieBolx.
That is exactly what I have started to do, I am rebuilding the country sites in subdirectories of the main website. I assume that also means that I will not have to worry about duplicate content as it is all in the same website.

I never thought it was really a matter of duplicate content, I believe the issue was more one of domain farming .. the process of having a large volume of domains all pointing back to the main business ... 

Now, that will no longer be a problem as all the links will be internal and your core business should benefit from being a larger complete site

I hope that makes sense and wish you all the success possible

Goldie...
Re: Website has dropped 15 pages on 5 weeks Hunts 11/14/12 4:01 AM
Thanks for all of the advice about this.
I did as suggested and created internal country pages : http://www.hunts-international.co.uk/international-removals.asp
I hope this resolves the problem and the sites start o come back.