Categories: Chit-chat :

Manual Penalty

Showing 1-16 of 16 messages
Manual Penalty jimcook1 7/12/12 3:24 AM
As 1 of many site owners who are currently under a manual penalty, I have a few questions

Why is it necessary for a manual penalty. I thought the penguin algorythm's job was to demote sites that were over optimised, Why does manual action have to be taken as well. By paying for adwords G would be more than happy to list my site, even with a penalty. Does that not breach an unfair competition law?

Firstly you can't control your backlink profile, I keep being told that if I have a link on another site it should be "nofollow" but 10 years ago there was no such thing as nofollow.

How can you be penalised for something that was once accepted but now isn't.

I agree that sites that have cheated there way to the top should be demoted but isn't that the job of the penguin and not a manual hand.
Re: Manual Penalty Robbo 7/12/12 3:40 AM


>>> How can you be penalised for something that was once accepted but now isn't.


Hi

Rules, guidelines, recommended methods change from time to time in search engine stuff as well as every other walk of life.

Whether google use only algorithmic methods, only manual methods, or a mixture of both is surely for google to decide; they do their best to act fairly and are waging constant war with spammers.  

It seems to me entirely appropriate to use a mixture of methods.  In particular, algorithmic methods for the vast majority of issues, and manual review for extreme cases or cases that are not currently handled so well by automated methods.

I don't KNOW, but I would not be surprised if manual actions are taken after human review of various factors, with the the evidence provided by the algorithms an important part of the data that google staff review.

"Manual adjustments" also give you the opportunity to "request reconsideration", explain your situation, what you have done, and why, and somehow get to a situation that is satisfactory all round.

Google knows that many siteowners do not know/understand half of the extremely bad/deceptive practices that so-called SEOs get up to.

Nevertheless, the overriding job is for google to produce the best results for users. 

Re: Manual Penalty jimcook1 7/12/12 3:52 AM
Hi Robbo

All valid points, but what about adwords, how can it be that G determine a site is that bad it can not be allowed to feature in its serch results. Yet give them some money and there happy for it to be top of page 1.

That is just greed
Re: Manual Penalty fathom 7/12/12 4:02 AM

On Thursday, July 12, 2012 7:24:15 AM UTC-3, jimcook1 wrote:

Firstly you can't control your backlink profile

 
Well honestly, you can control your own actions... and this is what I know about developing your own link profile...
 
EVERYBODY LIES! 
 
I helped a few hundred business with backlink issues... and not one accurately disclosed the truth in the first place... vaguely saying "I don't spam" doesn't mean that... it means (sssshhhhhh... I don't want anyone to know I'm a spammer)
Re: Manual Penalty jimcook1 7/12/12 4:21 AM
Hello Fathom

Ok agreed you can control your own links to a certain extent.

I am currently going through our own profile and I am coming accross links I have never even seen before. Low quality directories that have used the title and description of the homepage at the time they were added.

No contact details, I get an email address from whois and the message fails. What do I do about it?
Re: Manual Penalty fathom 7/12/12 4:57 AM
Google WILL NOT just devalued the webpage getting unnatural links... it actually devalues the resident page providing the link.
 
With a little innovation you can prove or disprove each link whether Google determined it to be unnatural or natural.
____________
 
Check DNS upstream and contact host, or their host, or their host... I'm 100% sure someone can get in touch with their customer.
 
Post one here... I'll do it.
 

On Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:21:35 AM UTC-3, jimcook1 wrote:
Re: Manual Penalty JohnMu 7/12/12 6:15 AM
Hi Jim

It sounds like you're fighting with a problem on your website -- do you have a thread here where we could take a look at the specific issues that you're seeing with your site? Feel free to use a URL shortener if you prefer. 

Cheers
John
Re: Manual Penalty jimcook1 7/13/12 2:09 AM

Hello John

Thanks for joining the thread,

Yes we are fighting a problem on our site, it all started here.

https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!search/wmt$20in$20german/webmasters/QBFjYL6ZxP0/rZWPiPVAN10J

We thought because the site was on a German IP it was harming our rankings, but you cleared up that matter and informed us that “links were no to our site were no longer counting as they once did”

We removed all links from the site and filed a reconsideration request.

5 days later (27/03/12)

We received the “We've reviewed your site and we still see links to your site that violate our quality guidelines” message in WMT

No changes to our existing rankings at this point, but we now knew what the problem was, we set about removing the links we thought were causing the problem or least tried to remove.

On the 24th April when penguin first rolled out we were removed from Google altogether apart from our brand name, we submitted our second recon on the 25th April with a link to a Google doc detailing our efforts.

The next response was on 17/05/12 again “we still see unnatural links” so we set about removing more links and blocking links via htaccess I know not a proven way but at least shows intent that we don’t want the page rank to pass through the link.

We got a response on 5/7/12 again “we still see unnatural links” it has been nearly 3 months now since we were dropped from search, we have spent so much time sending emails that fail or never get a response from.

I have just downloaded all the links again from WMT just over 6000 this was nearly 20,000 when we first started so we feel we are getting close. I read on the forum other people have had partial removal or examples of links that need removing but we just keep getting the generic message.

Where we go from here I don’t know, yes in the past we would try and get links from travel sites as they were a natural source of business for us, we didn’t know they should have had a “nofollow” tag on them even though we never paid for them or submit to travel directories as that was what you were told to do, it even says in the Google guidelines that the “Links are usually editorial votes given by choice, and the buzzing blogger community can be an excellent place to generate interest” what does that mean, blog comment? guest post?

As I stated on the opening thread I have no problem with an algorithm placing our site where it thinks it should be, but to have someone place a penalty on the site so we get virtually no traffic for doing what you were mean to be doing seems unjust to me.

I welcome your feedback John and advice on where we should go from here.

Google Doc from last failed recon

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At9uGpkAoJBFdEk1aXZZZFRwcFFIWjkyeERBLVVGRGc&pli=1#gid=0

Page 1 removed
Page 2 blocked

Re: Manual Penalty JohnMu 7/16/12 5:32 AM
Hi Jim

What's happening here is that we're ignoring some of the links pointing to your website, which on the one hand can be useful if these are problematic links that you don't want to have counted, but on the other hand, it would be easier for our algorithms to understand your site if that wasn't necessary. Past those ignored links, there is no manual action being taken against your website, there is no penalty involved. My recommendation would be to continue working on cleaning up any issues that you may be seeing (including the unnatural links that you mentioned). 

With regards to links, I'd take a look at http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.ch/2010/06/quality-links-to-your-site.html and similar posts there. The kind of links that our algorithms love are genuine recommendations by other websites, which are generally best earned by having an absolutely fantastic website with the best content possible. I realize that's not something which is easily done from one day to the next, but that would be my long-term recommendation. 

Hope it helps!
John

PS The Google Doc isn't publicly accessible, so the reconsideration request team would not have been able to review that.
Re: Manual Penalty jimcook1 7/16/12 5:55 AM
Hi John

Thanks for taking the time to get back to me, it is greatly appreciated,

The fact that there is no manual action on the site really surprises me, I thought if you got the message saying "Site Violates The Guidelines" it meant manual action has been taken.

I am slightly confused, if there is no manual action, then why does the message say to remove links and submit a reconsideration request as you can't apply against the algorythm.

P.S Thanks for the heads up on the Google Doc






Re: Manual Penalty DaMan 7/16/12 6:23 AM
Hi Jim

John told me something along the same? lines  a couple of weeks ago about my website.

Whilst the generic responses I get are "we have reviewed the site" (no mention of manual action), I got a response from the webmaster-central-help@google email (Google Search Quality Team)

"At this time, there is still a manual action on your site.

We know that perhaps not every link can be cleaned up, but in order to deem a reconsideration request as successful, we need to see a substantial good-faith effort to remove the links, and this effort should result in a decrease in the number of bad links that we see. You might consider reaching out to the webmasters of the sites with the inorganic links on them. For advice on how to go about contacting them, read http://support.google.com/websearch/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=9109."



This was very confuseing and I cant say I understand this communication fully. On one side John says no action, on the other the GSQT says there is still action and the generic reponse in the webmater tools doesnt say anything /though most say that this is indication that there is still a manual action on your site/. Cant say that this is clear communication :(.

Anyways from what I gleaned (and maybe John can clear this up) this means that there is no "general" action on your website except on those links that they previously took action on (they are still suppressed). Due to that action they may have suppressed more than was actually spam and you incurred a sitewide/keyword penalty greater than you actually may have if the algorithims "understood your site".

Thus you should continue to try and clean up links - which at some point I know is just impossible as most ignore you and try to get more clean links. I hope there is some timeout
after 1-2 years as after 7 months I have had no success and I doubt I can get out at this stage.

Re: Manual Penalty fathom 7/16/12 6:56 AM
It's important to realize that with or without a manual review your domain will not likely pass a PENGUIN update in the current state so keep cleaning things up.
Re: Manual Penalty jimcook1 7/20/12 1:37 AM
Thats Odd.

Having failed our last reconsideration request, we are currently doing another wave of link removal requests. I just logged into WMT to see if the link count was going down,(which it is) and was surprised to have a new message waiting for me from Google.

Saying
Google Webmaster Tools notice of unnatural links detected


But we were already aware of this, so what does this new message mean. This is the first time we have recieved the message when we havent done a reconsideration first. Plus the fact that we have removed around 10,000 links is a bit dissapointing.

Any ideas.
Re: Manual Penalty fathom 7/20/12 1:44 AM
In all likelihood, someone else has just reported you for webspam and that initated another manual review.
 
Bill (the newest member of the Webspam Team) had a hot date tonight and didn't review too closesly to see you already having a manual review... the little brain was doing all the thinking! :-)
 
Obviously, that's BS but the point... Googlers are human to.
Re: Manual Penalty jimcook1 7/20/12 1:51 AM
Why would someone report for spam when it is already under manual review. It hardly gets any traffic from G as it is?
Re: Manual Penalty fathom 7/20/12 6:21 AM
Who knows... the report could have been submitted weeks or a months or two ago.