Categories: Crawling, indexing & ranking :

Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time

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Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Laura Miles 10/30/12 9:01 AM

My humble opinion is that Google's disavow tool.... is a utter waste of your time!

My site, http://goo.gl/pdsHs  was penalized over a year ago after the SEO we hired used black hat techniques to increase ranking.

Ironically, while having visibility, Google itself had become a customer. (I guess the site was pretty high quality, trust worthy and user friendly enough for Google employees to purchase from.)

Soon enough the message about detecting unnatural links had shown up on the webmaster tools and as expected, our rankings sank and out of view.

For a year we had contacted webmasters, asking them remove links pointing back to us.

90% didn't respond, the other 10% complied).

Work on our site continued, adding high quality, highly relevant unique content.
Rankings never recovered and neither did our traffic or business…..

Earlier this month, we learned about Google’s "link disavow tool" and were excited! 

We had hoped that following the cleanup instruction, using the “link disavow tool”, we would get a chance at recovery! 
We watched Matt Cutts’ video, read the various forums/blogs/topics online that were written about it, and then we felt comfortable enough to use it...

We went through our backlink profile, determining which links were either spammy or seemed a result of black hat practices or the links added by a 3rd party possibly interested in our demise and added them to a .txt file.  We submitted the file via the disavow tool and followed with another reconsideration request.

 The result came a couple of weeks later… the same cookie cutter email in the WMT suggesting that there are “unnatural links” to the site.

Hope turned to disappointment and frustration.  Looks like the big box companies will continue to populate the top 100 results of ANY search, the rest will help Google’s shareholders…

 If your site has gotten in the algorithm crosshairs, you have a better chance of recovering by changing your URL than messing around with this useless tool.

Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time luzie 10/30/12 9:21 AM
40 %
 of all your links on 250 domains have the term "plastic bins" as their anchor text
 - a strong spam signal. You can't just spam the hell out of the search engine, and after having been penalized for it, submit a list of spam links with your apologies ... that's not really the way it's intended to work. You need to get rid of all links you can get hold of first, and use the disavowal tool then on links that are not and have never been under your control.

-luzie-
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Laura Miles 10/30/12 9:28 AM
Maybe you missed the part about hiring an SEO company with bad/poor techniques... And maybe you missed the part about spending a year contacting webmasters and asking them to remove links & content (and including that info in the multiple reconsideration requests we sent)... And maybe you missed the part about using the disavow tool, after all else failed, on the remaining links that were there and acquired by our SEO and are not under our control...





Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time luzie 10/30/12 9:33 AM
Well, I didn't "miss" any of that. 

You may have missed what Google themselves say about the disavow links tool. From what I infer, it will take at least several months before any reaction could be expected after having submitted a sizable list of bad links.
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time StevieD_Web 10/30/12 9:39 AM
>on the remaining links that were there and acquired by our SEO and are not under our control... 

under your control means employees, agents or others contracted to perform a service/task.

The SEO was paid to perform a task, therefore the firm was under your control.

Whether they performed to the exact terms of the contract is a civil issue between you, the firm and the courts.
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Laura Miles 10/30/12 9:51 AM
 The firm was under our control... They have been fired!
The links they bought or acquired are not under our control!

What's done is done, no one is arguing that we hired a bad SEO... 

So now that that's out of the way, please explain the purpose of the link disavow tool
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Laura Miles 10/30/12 9:52 AM
Well they were sure quick to deny my reconsideration request...

Regardless, the tool is a waste of time and Google continues to rank sites that lack relevance, quality, user experience, products or information that i do ahead of my site.

They are ranking multi billion dollar companies like Target and Walmart ahead of mine for a keyword those companies know very little about.  Those sites do not provide unique and relevant content and I am convinced that my site does offer this as well as the largest selection.

Be honest, if you search for the term "plastic bins", which site do you think a user would prefer? 
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time luzie 10/30/12 9:58 AM
Not this one:


... took me two random clicks to get stuck on your site, so this may be symptomatic perhaps?
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Laura Miles 10/30/12 10:05 AM
What?  Please explain why finding a page on my site that i recently removed the products from means Google's disavow tool shouldn't work.

And please, answer this question:

If you searched for the term "Plastic Bins" on Google, which site would you (a user) prefer?  http://plasticstorage.com/ or http://www.target.com/s/plastic+bins

Thanks
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time luzie 10/30/12 10:06 AM
I'd prefer yours ... 
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Laura Miles 10/30/12 10:19 AM
Thanks, I figure most people prefer my site (as it is highly informative and easy to use) rather than these massive companies (who just spend a ton on SEO) that don't have any relevance to the keyword...As a matter of fact, Google prefers my site too (from a user experience point of view, just not an SEO point of view).  I know this b/c they have bought from that exact site!

The silence from Google and their employees who read these forums says a lot!
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time dannysullivan 10/30/12 11:10 AM
Since you got in touch with me at Search Engine Land about this, I thought I'd share the same response I emailed back, in case it helps others who might be confused.

The tool has been out for two weeks, so in your post, when you say you did this "weeks ago," that's a bit of a stretch.

Google said the process would take several weeks, with "several" commonly meaning three or more. So, you've got at least a week before you can declare that this doesn't work and perhaps longer. Complicating matters, even after the links are processed, it will still take time before they work into Google's various algorithms.

The reality is that this tool is probably going to take a month if not two or three until anyone sees any impact, and that's assuming you've identified the correct links.

My stories below have more about this, including a fresh Q&A with Google on the topic:

http://searchengineland.com/google-disavowing-links-removal-138149

http://searchengineland.com/matt-cutts-qa-how-to-use-google-link-disavow-tool-137664

Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Laura Miles 10/30/12 11:21 AM
Thanks for the reply, Danny.

In regards to the word weeks, it's literally been 11 days, sorry for the confusion.

Are you saying that I shouldn't pay attention to the response i just got from my reconsideration request (11 days after using disavow tool and sending req)?  The reason i state the tool isn't working is because i got a response about my reconsideration request: "Site violates Google's quality guidelines"


Also, if google is really in the business of trying to rank what the best results are for a user (not based on who pays the best SEO company) based on relevancy, content, UI and some other factors, wouldn't you agree that my site is better suited to rank for the targeted terms as opposed to target?

Thanks
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time dannysullivan 10/30/12 11:32 AM
Can you send me what you received, if you don't mine sharing, to the email address I wrote you at earlier?

The disavow links tool is designed for those who have a problem with bad links. The penalty message you got doesn't sound like it's about bad links. It's about bad quality. That's why it might be that using the tool didn't prevent you from getting a rejection message. You've likely not corrected the real problem.

Think of it like this. If you have a bad quality issue, that's like having a broken arm. Bad links are like having a broken leg. You're trying to fix your broken arm by putting your broken leg in a case.


Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Laura Miles 10/30/12 11:34 AM
E-mail coming right up...
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time pink fluffy unicons 10/30/12 11:40 AM
hi

I wouldn't give up hope just yet Laura, google will need to recrawl the urls which could take seconds,days, or a month.

I'd also check out your 'links to your site' in case there are other top links that may seem unnatural that you may have missed (or use ahrefs.com).

Once you've compiled a list and updated your disavow list, when you send the reconsideration request make a note to the engineers that you have also submitted a disavow file.
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Lysis 10/30/12 12:10 PM
Just think about the site owners who had to clean up your spam from their own sites. You're getting what every spammer deserves. It's about time Google did something to webmasters who polluted our sites with their spam.
Laura Miles 10/30/12 12:36 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Laura Miles 10/30/12 12:43 PM
Your response is spamming my thread and my brain... and honestly, no1 asked for your opinion on what spammers deserve!

What I was talking about (since it clearly went over your head) was using the link disavow tool, which google created so people who have done things against the guidelines (yes, including web-spam) can recover from the penalty...

And just so we're clear... we had to hire an SEO company (admittedly a bad one) to keep up with the times.  Google was not ranking my high quality site that was built with user experience in mind so we had to hire an SEO company to outrank all the other companies that were showing higher than us in the SERPS.  It is a cycle, a vicious one!
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Johnny Mazuma 10/30/12 1:14 PM
I'm sorry that you're having the problems you appear frustrated from.
Allow me to share a story from a client we have.
She fell from position #2 for her top two keywords to page two. She contacted us when she fell from page two to not within the top 100 results. She fell to position 480 and 525 for those two keywords. Certainly, people were not going to look that far to find her site.
We began researching the problem and found the following:
1. She was listed in a blogroll on another site
2. She had several blogs of her own pointing to her store
3. She had duplicate content
Fortunately, all this was brought to our attention just before the disavow tool became public.
The first thing we did was request the blogroll site remove the link to her site. They refused. That gave us grounds to disavow.
Second, we nofollowed the links pointing to her store.
Those two actions resulted in her site rising over 100 positions within 48 hours.
The third thing we did was remove the duplicate content. That resulted in another positive change of 100 positions within an additional 48 hours.
Some people claim that the disavow tool is useless based upon their belief that Google has already removed the spammy links from the link profile. Too much evidence stands in place to counter that argument. If Google already ignored the bad links, they wouldn't penalize people for them.
Here's the actions you need to take.
1. Submit your disavow list using the proper format. Include the date you requested the link removal and response if any for each domain. ** Do NOT Send a list of all domains without the explanation.
2. Start getting links to your site from other websites using varying anchor text. You can incude such phrases as click here, read more, and other non-cohesive phrases. Use the thesaurus as well. I would use terms like tub and basket instead of bin. Use Google's keyword tool to get other options. If you have 1,000 links pointing at your website for plastic bins, you need three times as many using other phrases to produce a proper link profile. One thing you can do is use a blog. Don't use WP or others similar to it; they won't help.
3. Start creating links within the content section of your pages to other pages of your website. Google ignores links in your header, left/right gutters, and bottom of your pages. They no longer help with your search engine optimization efforts.
I hope this helps you.
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Ashley 10/30/12 1:20 PM
Laura - 

Google didn't buy from your site. Google is an algorithm. Google has many employees (all of which are mere mortals, I'm afraid) who may have purchased from your site. That doesn't mean they endorse it holistically. 


/Carry on. 
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Ashley 10/30/12 1:22 PM
2. Start getting links to your site from other websites using varying anchor text. You can incude such phrases as click here, read more, and other non-cohesive phrases. Use the thesaurus as well. I would use terms like tub and basket instead of bin. Use Google's keyword tool to get other options. If you have 1,000 links pointing at your website for plastic bins, you need three times as many using other phrases to produce a proper link profile. One thing you can do is use a blog. Don't use WP or others similar to it; they won't help.

This is the wackiest shit I've read.

Google doesn't want unnatural links - so be sure to build more. SMART. 
And blog, but not on Wordpress. 

what the.....?
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Lysis 10/30/12 1:27 PM
You forgot the part about her site being in the top 100 within 48 hours because of what he did....
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time seo101 10/30/12 1:33 PM
"and honestly, no1 asked for your opinion on what spammers deserve!

What I was talking about (since it clearly went over your head) was using the link disavow tool, which google created so people who have done things against the guidelines (yes, including web-spam) can recover from the penalty...

And just so we're clear... we had to hire an SEO company (admittedly a bad one) to keep up with the times.
"

The point you are missing is that YOU paid someone to spam on your behalf (ie abuse other peoples web properties) to "keep up". If you abuse other peoples web properties, why should you not suffer the consequences?

Do you have any idea how much staff time (ie $'s) I have to spend to clean up the attempted spam on my web properties! ... all because of people like you!!!! If you genuinely feel how you do, then how about Paypal me some $ to compensate me for the amount I spend keeping people like you off my web properties.

Spammers are getting what they deserve. How can you sleep at night knowing that you are responsible for polluting the web with nonsensical crap .... let alone have this expectation that Google should be sympathetic to you !!   no figure!!
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Laura Miles 10/30/12 1:46 PM
The point YOU are missing is that Google created a link disavow tool to help people who spammed or hired someone who spammed!!  Stop telling me what i did, i know what i did, and have admitted it repeatedly.... Thats not what this thread is about!

1) I HAVE SUFFERED THE CONSEQUENCES, FOR OVER 1 YEAR NOW

2) THESE PEOPLE'S SITES WERE NOT POLLUTED BY SPAM THEY DID NOT WANT, THEY HAD TO APPROVE ANYTHING THAT IS ON THEIR SITE... I DO NOT  HAVE ACCESS TO PUT BLOG POSTS ON THEIR SITE, THEY AGREED TO IT!!!!

3) I AM NOT LOOKING FOR SYMPATHY, I AM EXPLAINING TO PEOPLE THAT I USED THE DISAVOW TOOL (WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO BE USED IN SITUATIONS SUCH AS MINE).  IF GOOGLE THOUGHT THAT SPAMMERS (AND WEBMASTERS WHO HIRED BAD SEO COMPANIES) DESERVE DEATH, WHY DID THEY CREATE A DISAVOW TOOL!!!???!!!???!!!???

4) YOU SHOULD SEND ME MONEY VIA PAYPAL FOR HAVING TO READ YOUR RESPONSE!

Laura Miles 10/30/12 1:58 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Laura Miles 10/30/12 2:13 PM
Ashley -

Actually ... Google's procurement department DID in fact buy from this site.  I have tracking for several pallet loads on Yellow Freight to prove that (more than once, in fact)...  No one ever suggested they endorsed the site, as you put itThe reason I mentioned this is to show that our site is relevant, easy to use and trust worthy!

As for the issue at hand, let's stick to the thread about the usefulness (or lack thereof) of the "link disavow tool", shall we?

/ Carry on.
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Ashley 10/30/12 2:17 PM
That's fine. I work for Cisco and we have a procurement system too for vendors. That doesn't mean that we endorse every aspect of their business, especially their website. It just meant the quote/service for the product filled an immediate (or ongoing) need we have.


What if it was any other business besides Google? The search algorithm isn't built from plastic bins so what you're offering vs. what they bought as a very diverse company really doesn't equate to any sort of algorithmic vote for the site. Sorry. 



And enough with the caps. Yowzas!
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Lysis 10/30/12 2:24 PM
>> 
2) THESE PEOPLE'S SITES WERE NOT POLLUTED BY SPAM THEY DID NOT WANT, THEY HAD TO APPROVE ANYTHING THAT IS ON THEIR SITE... I DO NOT  HAVE ACCESS TO PUT BLOG POSTS ON THEIR SITE, THEY AGREED TO IT!!!!

Wrong
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Laura Miles 10/30/12 2:27 PM
Ashley,

Once again, no one said we got any algorithmic vote... All I am trying to say is that if Google bought from me, they must think my site was trust worthy and easy to use... according to google, that plays a part in rankings.

 

I posted an opinion about the “link disavow tool” on this forum.

I have received some real valuable advice and pointers from some seriously clever people.

I think you are clueless about my intent, however I must thank Cisco's Richfield, OH, Richardson, TX and San Jose, CA locations for all of their business over the past 8 years.

I wish you well

Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Johnny Mazuma 10/30/12 2:37 PM
Whether someone thinks things are wacky does not constitute a disqualification of techniques others have used successfully.  Nor does it make them look smart.
 
The point of engagement here is to help people.  Battering someone down because of your ignorance shows how small-minded you are.
 
Additionally, because you have a TOP Contributor rating doesn't mean you're smart.  It only means you've spent a lot of time in here posting comments.
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Geminineil 10/30/12 2:39 PM
From someone who has been penalised I would suggest that there are three things that you can do....

1. Disavow will take several weeks.. and this will depend on how often Google crawls the websites that link back to you... I actually think this is likely to be several months as some websites may not get re-crawled within 'several weeks'. So.. wait...

2. Keep emailing webmasters requesting the removal of poor quality links as some may eventually decide to remove spam backlinks... for no apparent reason other than they just decide to do it...

3. Look at the links that are pointing to your website and be ruthless in rooting out POTENTIAL spam backlinks...

That is what I would do...
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Lysis 10/30/12 2:41 PM
>> Additionally, because you have a TOP Contributor rating doesn't mean you're smart.  It only means you've spent a lot of time in here posting comments.

At least she's not giving bad advice while claiming to work in SEO.
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Ashley 10/30/12 3:00 PM
I <3 this thread. 
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time blue4ever 10/30/12 3:37 PM
Laura

I think you've been given good advice here, buy people who normally give good and consistent advice.

So, the issue here is that you, most likely, have to simply join the queue. Your inference is that you should be dealt with first because you're the most apologetic and have admitted the sins of the past like some 'truth and reconciliation' session. No, that doesn't wash either,

I come in at the end of this just to add that the advice here was clear, concise and actionable. Also, I'd have been very slow to contribute anything after your second post -  because your attitude is appalling to people giving you sound advice. 
jellybabys 10/30/12 3:49 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time jellybabys 10/30/12 3:51 PM
Ashley and Lysis...

You are like tweedle dee and tweedle dum, you both come on to this forum day in day out and say the same thing on every post, spam this,  bad site that, read google rules and so on, do you really think none of us can read nor understand the rules? I would class you both as trolls, offering NO good advice but just like putting your two pennies worth in on every post, you both must get off on other peoples misery. like I have said before! if you do not have any good ADVICE please do not offer your pointless views.

Laura Miles


Nice site and I am sorry to hear your bad news, we are having problems like yours with massive traffic drop, but not because of bad linking.


The only advice I would offer you is that you have a good business and its worth keeping at it, I would add more content when ever possible, give disavow longer to work and most importantly get more nature brand links, hopefully they will dilute the keyword plastic bins links you do have.


I'm sure if you stick at your traffic will grow again.


Sorry I can not offer you the one magic trick to go back to normal, but on one can give you that.


Regards


Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time seo101 10/30/12 4:04 PM
"Additionally, because you have a TOP Contributor rating doesn't mean you're smart.  It only means you've spent a lot of time in here posting comments."

Wrong. Being a TC has nothing to do with how much you post.
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time mundabit 10/30/12 4:15 PM

Laura Miles


Nice site


No it isn't and that's the point. No good relying on the wrong thing.


Your link profile needs cleaning up, you know that, say you have tried manually and now used the disavow tool. See how that goes but I wonder how many posts here will follow this route and miss the point. You can disavow everything you like but still need to offer a cogent and useful website to interest search engines, more now than ever.

Much of the content that does exist is just keyword spam e.g, the bottom of the home page.

The blog consists of one short entry, basically an excuse for a little internal anchor text. The about page poor, what else is there, the products:

Many product related pages are multiple listings, or almost empty, the actual product pages not much better, many a few lines that are all over the web.

There's almost nothing on that site for a search engine in 2012. Good luck with the tool but this does not replace a website. Your pages will sort of come up for a few terms, seen worse but I agree, commercialy non-viable. Just don't imagine you can sit and wait for that tool to somehow magically sort the problem.

The link crap from the SEO team was poor but their worst mistake, not telling you also need to build a valuable website. The current one is going nowhere, links or no links.
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time StevieD_Web 10/30/12 4:16 PM
>All I am trying to say is that if Google bought from me, they must think my site was trust worthy and easy to use.

Ah, no.  It means the person buying the product found your website.

My customers include some the biggest, baddest mega corps in the world (plus some the most prestigious colleges, universities and hospitals).  My site is neither easy to use nor am I more trustworthy than any other business.  I have the products they want or can provide the products they want in a timely manner.

I am a vendor.  Nothing more.  Next week they will buy from somebody else.  There is no endorsement.  I don't get to use their name for promotional materials and marketing efforts.


And the few times I have crossed over the line from supplier to partner the effort was significant.  There are also huge restrictions as to when/how/where I can use their name/logo for my benefit. 





Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time matchmate 10/30/12 4:18 PM
you just told what I am thinking about google now. over years google is shouting get backlinks and all webmasters have putting hours of their lives into this crab and ext day google decided " escrow you guys who have no $$" no we change our plan who ever got fooled and created links for free are dead. why not penalized big guys like  match.com , eharmony ebay etc. because the pay big buck?
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time matchmate 10/30/12 4:20 PM
didn't just google say "anchor text matter"? now you say it is bad?
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time luzie 10/30/12 4:25 PM
>>> Sorry I can not offer you the one magic trick to go back to normal

You gotta understand once and for all that there is no such thing as "normal" in regard to organic traffic. There's more sites wanting to sell plastic bins than position slots on SERP One and Two of any conceivable search engine, so, if rankings change, it could well be for a long time (not to say "forever"). A demotion of this kind demonstrates that the search engine is in no need of the corresponding search result. Users will be satisfied by other results too, obviously they don't expect exactly your site to appear when searching for your products. Ask yourself why that is (no branding).


>>> I'm sure if you stick at your traffic will grow again.

Who says so? You need to tap other possible sources of traffic in order to show the search engine you're not desperately dependent from it, that real  popularity is your asset (not more or less accidental, temporary ranking that even turns in innocent Googlers as new clients). Convince the search engine it needs your site as a result, not the other way around, seek it's "grace" by "abiding to the rules"; it won't work this way in the long run.
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Ashley 10/30/12 4:25 PM
Oh Jellybabys - you've received loads of help and at least an hour of my time. Take what you will of it. 

1. Being a TC just isn't post count; we're hand-picked by Google. So while you may not see value in our presence - someone clearly does. 
2. You're getting help, and damn good help, for free. We're all volunteers and we see our fair share of spammers, liars and jerks. So, we'll cut the BS. Again, we're volunteering our time to help you. You think it's all roses on our side of the fence? 
3. If you require communication in a specific fashion - pay someone. Again, this is a free forum. 


But here's where I take personal issue. 
I have volunteered hundreds of hours here and helped thousands of webmasters in this forum alone. I have volunteered locally in other capacities and have done dozens of presentations to thousands people again, helping small businesses. Clearly I'm not just a troll that likes to cause other people misery. 
In the meantime, I'm supporting my family, raising two ridiculously awesome daughters and managing to be a knock-out wife. So when you ask if I have something better to do - the answer is yes. But shame on me for caring enough to keep coming back to volunteer and help out webmasters. What a horrible person I must be!
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time ShopSafe 10/30/12 4:42 PM
I see luzie and Ashley are still swapping "best answer" votes.  

What a waste of what could be a good feature if only it was used properly. Nobody trusts it.

==================================================

Hello Laura Miles.

I am not an expert but I think I can see what the problem is here. There are two types of penalties, algorithmic and manual. 

You may have both but an unnatural links warning message is only an indication of a manual penalty whereas the Disavow Links tool is only useful for an algorithmic penalty. 

You should address the message via the reconsideration request process and only rely on the Disavow Links tool when you are unable to have a bad link removed altogether. Some say that you can refer to your disavow list as part of your submission.
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time luzie 10/30/12 4:45 PM
Ok, this might be a key to what is going on:

Your site is called


whereas your brand is 

simplastics

WHY?

If you tried to derive your success from something like a keyword domain, it went wrong. Keyword domains necessarily had to turn out worthless. Build an online brand out of your offline brand name. "Simplastics" says it all, "plasticstorage" is generic nothingness.
jellybabys 10/30/12 4:52 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time luzie 10/30/12 4:54 PM
>>> What a waste of what could be a good feature
>>> if only it was used properly. Nobody trusts it.

I do. Google obviously also do, otherwise they wouldn't "swap" "best answers" with us. So you better leave the decision of what is a waste and what is not to Google. Of course it's again you, Jim, who knows how to "use everything properly". Since you're already running an own SEO site, may I suggest you open your own forum too? It's there where you could freely bully people to your liking.

Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time jellybabys 10/30/12 5:02 PM

Hours of your time and HELP.


Three quotes?


- Guess no one told you what a proper/usable sitemap was? (this comment just keeps helping)


- Super busted (guess I would have to be american to understand what that means, am a thief or is it broken) again your second advice meant alot!


- The robots.txt page has some lines that seem strange to me. Strange hmmm that helpful as well, maybe I should just delete the txt because it SEEMS strange.


Again, helpful advice is a wonderful thing, but when one repeats themselves time and time again if just becomes boring to read and not helpful, and when people in need just gets told to read google rules or you are a spammer and deserve all you get is pointless, and using words like Super busted and stranges means nothing. maybe you are too young to remember but exchange links with good website and directories with your keywords was normal thing to do and google did not mind EVERYONE doing so, and just because google changes the goal post this does not make us all crooks and spammers and we deserve to lose are business, homes and family. 



PS


But here's where I take personal issue. 


I have volunteered hundreds of hours here and helped thousands of webmasters in this forum alone. I have volunteered locally in other capacities and have done dozens of presentations to thousands people again, helping small businesses. Clearly I'm not just a troll that likes to cause other people misery. 

In the meantime, I'm supporting my family, raising two ridiculously awesome daughters and managing to be a knock-out wife. So when you ask if I have something better to do - the answer is yes. But shame on me for caring enough to keep coming back to volunteer and help out webmasters. What a horrible person I must be!


God you are full off yourself! I dont care if no one loves me as no one can love me more than I love myself 

Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Ashley 10/30/12 5:02 PM
I have not voted anyone's answer on this thread, actually. Sorry, Jim.

whereas the Disavow Links tool is only useful for an algorithmic penalty. 
Why do you think that Jim? The original post covers it's usefulness for manual penalties in the very first paragraph http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2012/10/a-new-tool-to-disavow-links.html


Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Geminineil 10/30/12 5:25 PM
"Today we’re introducing a tool that enables you to disavow links to your site. If you’ve been notified of a manual spam action based on “unnatural links” pointing to your site, this tool can help you address the issue. If you haven’t gotten this notification, this tool generally isn’t something you need to worry about."

I read this Q&A with Matt Cutts... and the bottom line is IF you have used the
Disavow tool it could take MONTHS not several weeks..

Question:

How long will it take sites to see any potential improvement? It seems like potentially months.

IE, say you upload a file. It takes several weeks for that to be read. Then you might wait several weeks for the next Penguin update until the change would be reflected, right?

Or when you say multiple weeks, do you mean that really, the file might get read right away, but the changes might not be reflected until some Penguin or other update can act on those changes?

Answer:

It can definitely take some time, and potentially months. There’s a time delay for data to be baked into the index. Then there can also be the time delay after that for data to be refreshed in various algorithms.


Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Lysis 10/30/12 5:53 PM
>>  I would class you both as trolls

Thems fighting words. I'm the troll around here. Ashley has gone and taken my fanclub, so I'm gonna have to fight her if she keeps getting the troll honors.
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time ShopSafe 10/30/12 6:48 PM
I guess we don't see eye to eye, Ashley, and I regret that but I still think you were wrong to promote Luzie's response as somehow being the "Best Answer" to this thread.

Luzie's made the same claim many times and I think there's plenty to demonstrate that it's not accurate. 

If you re-read JohnMu's post in the other thread, you might even half-agree with me.

I agree that the complete process might take months or many months, but I still maintain it's possible to see elements returning to rankings during the algorithms' run towards completion. 

I'm not interested enough to establish the exact cause and I agree with John that it would be impossible to be absolutely certain anyway, but I know I'm seeing interim results viz keywords that used to rank which are now returning to former positions.  

RE: your other question: I think the action of the Disavow Links tool might be to provide static data for exclusion during the running of algorithms, and there has been no announcement of manual intervention. If that's right, it seems reasonable to assume that the only apparent use for a Disavowal Links list during a reconsideration request might be as supporting information. I cannot see what would connect the two in any other way.
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time YCPD 10/30/12 6:53 PM
I have been waiting to hear if disavow tool worked prior to using it. This is very helpful information. Thank-you.

I disagree with one point: that you have a better chance of recovering by changing your URL. As an experiment, we put up another site with similar content to ours to see if it would outrank our 16 year old site that was killed by Penguin. (We had articles that were widely scraped, creating countless crappy backlinks to us-- that's the primary reason we were killed by Penguin).The new site has a tiny fraction of the traffic that is still coming to our old site. The new site only ranks well for keywords very closely related to its URL name. So, even our Penguin-bashed old site is out-performing a new test site by a long shot, even though the original site's traffic remains at 75% below 4-24-12. It's keywords bounce all over just like the Google patent described, never returning to original positions no matter how many improvements we make or how many bad links are removed.

I remain amazed that Google has no clue how much damage it is inadvertently doing to sites that weren't violating the rules but got caught up in Penguin nonetheless. If the disavow tool is as useless as you describe, there continues to be no way to ever recover. Thanks for this useful post.
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time StevieD_Web 10/30/12 7:00 PM
> that's the primary reason we were killed by Penguin

For all we know bad links might have been contributory but remember there are on-site causes that have been identified and have yet to be corrected.

Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time ShopSafe 10/30/12 8:13 PM
Hello YPCD. :)

Don't be too sure that Laura Miles is right to say the Disavow Links tool is useless. It depends, she may not have had a need to use it in the first place.
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Geminineil 10/31/12 5:06 AM
ShopSafe...

I don't understand your comment "whereas the Disavow Links tool is only useful for an algorithmic penalty."

when Google have Specifically said.. "Today we’re introducing a tool that enables you to disavow links to your site.

 If you’ve been notified of a manual spam action based on “unnatural links” pointing to your site, this tool can help you address the issue. If you haven’t gotten this notification, this tool generally isn’t something you need to worry about."
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time JohnMu 10/31/12 6:24 AM
Hi Laura

I'm sorry to hear about the trouble you've had with your previous SEO. It does appear that there is manual action being taken on your site based on some of the links that are still out there. My recommendation would be to double-check the list that you've used in the disavow links tool, make sure that it's really comprehensive and that it matches what you've worked on removing manually, and then submitting another reconsideration request when you feel ready. For example, I'm still seeing live links that aren't on your list from various forum posts, forum profiles, blog comments, articles, etc. -- here's a small sample of what I found while taking a quick look:


Also keep in mind that - as others have mentioned - in addition to manual action, our algorithms may find issues like these as well. Once these kinds of issues are either resolved (for example, by having those links removed -- which is the recommended action -- or by using the disavow links tool), we'll update that in our records as we recrawl & reindex those pages. This is not an instant process, it can take weeks, and in some cases, a few months, before that happens for all URLs. Once those links are reprocessed, it can still take a bit of time for the various algorithms to reflect that. 

So, my general recommendation in a case like this is to solicit help, perhaps from this community or from others like it, to make sure that you're flagging all the right things, and cleaning things up where it's possible. One possibilty could be to make your exported links & the uploaded disavow file accessible as a Google Doc (or with some other online spreadsheet), so that others can give you specific feedback on what you've submitted, or what you could submit. Keep in mind that even after submitting everything optimally, as has been mentioned before, you generally won't see any instant change. 

Hope it helps!
John
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time ShopSafe 10/31/12 6:28 AM
There are two types of penalties, manual and algorithmic.

You get a notification for a manual action.

You don't get a notification for an algorithmic penalty like Penguin.

The disavowal tool data is consumed when algorithms are run and I imagine that links are excluded from the calculation and if they were the links that caused the algorithmic penalty I imagine that the penalty would no longer apply.

A manual spam action can sometimes be reversed via a successful reconsideration request or through the passage of time providing the conditions that caused the manual spam action have been rectified. 

If you’ve been notified of a manual spam action based on “unnatural links” pointing to your site, this tool can help you address the issue. If you haven’t gotten this notification, this tool generally isn’t something you need to worry about."

I guess it's true to say that the disavow list can help you with the reconsideration request by proving what you've done or maybe it also means they use the list in some way as part of the reconsideration process. I don't know really, why worry about it? Why do you think it's important to know? Nobody's announced that you no longer need to submit a reconsideration request for a manual penalty so it doesn't change anything.

The disavowal process is different. If you are only impeded by an algorithmic penalty, and you are able to select the links that caused it, the disavowal tool list might expire the penalty without needing for a reconsideration request.
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Laura Miles 10/31/12 8:56 AM

Hi John,

Thank you so much for a to-the-point answer and guidance.

It is easier finding an SEO that would do damage, than finding someone to undo the damage.

We found someone to do the cleanup, turns out it is us… (with hopeful future help of the disavow utility)

We have just edited our .txt file and re-submitted it through the disavow tool.

Thanks again for volunteering your time to respond. I trust others would benefit from this exchange as well.

 Warm regards,


Laura Miles

Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Kanji Wu 10/31/12 11:32 AM
I agree with Danny. Just give it more time, and it won't be an instantaneous result.  There is no magic to the disavow tool.  Google has to make notes about all the bad URL's or domains you listed in it.  It is just possibly, that your .txt file just has not been read yet.  But when it is read, it will still take Google months to travel to all those domains.  Google does not crawl 100% of the web every single day.  They do it in piece-meal.  The tool will work, but it will still take time to recover.  I used it two weeks ago, but have noticed other URL's out of my control that I may need to update into a new .txt file.  I am just hoping to see some promising news early next year.  I don't think too much will happen over the next 4 to 8 weeks.
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time koko55 10/31/12 3:24 PM
Where is the Disavaow tool located in WBT?
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Geminineil 10/31/12 3:49 PM
I don't think it is in WMT(yet) . it is at https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/disavow-links-main


Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time thefellafromthere 11/14/12 2:04 AM
glad i found this thread. Without posting our whole story, we got slapped with un natural links warning after using perhaps the worst seo firm on the planet. Have done recon request 3 weeks ago after being turned down multiple times before.

also, including submitted a list of links on a spreadsheet in google docs, to which i personally reviewed every single one, despite many links that google says i have, have already been removed by site owners or the site has gone altogether.

. Also did link disavow too but we have heard absolutely nothing, in fact i would say our traffic has got slightly worse since then.

Been concentrating with on-site seo at present to strengthen our case.

Done everything in our power to correct mistakes but still nothing from gogole. :(

GOOGLE WHEN WILL YOU RESPOND>>>!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????

I just want my site back to normal.
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time luzie 11/14/12 3:40 AM
>>> I just want my site back to normal.

Say farewell to this notion of "normal", there is no such thing as "normal" ranking. Your site ranks where it ranks and no one guaranteed disavowing links would do anything. In fact in most cases it won't have any effect.

(The effect is demotion in search prior to disavowal and disavowal most likely won't affect more than a few percent of backlinks on your list, most of them will already have been devalued by Google themselves long before you submit your list)
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time GordonP2 11/14/12 4:12 AM
I see lots of people complaining about how long Google takes to "fix things". A hell of a lot of talk about "we hired bad SEO"

Even a lot of talk about how good our site is and how it deserves to be "back in its place at the top"

What I never hear very much about is the people who DO follow the rules, have good websites and have been held back for years by the the very vocal whiners who got their sites undeservedly into the top spots using tricks.

While competition makes people do whatever it is they need to to keep in front, and people understand this 100%. Arguing the toss as if you deserve something never seems to go out of style.

funny that
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time Mark Pommett 11/14/12 8:54 AM
Hi John,

I have some sites that I was a bit careless with in the past and did excessive optimization. It looks like it got hit with the so called "minus 50" slap.  I have been cleaning up my spammy links and constantly improving my website's content and user experience. Is it necessary to do a reconsideration request or will the site eventually return once most of or all the issues are resolved? 

Thanks
Re: Disavow Tool - Complete Waste of Time luzie 11/14/12 12:53 PM
>>> Is it necessary to do a reconsideration request 

Erm ... no.

>>> or will the site eventually return once most of or all the issues are resolved? 

Erm ... yes - but it could take several months longer than with a successful reconsideration request.
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