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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers

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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers n9oum.pp 11/28/13 12:29 AM
Weird that they are creating parking lots and the Google Automated Internal Syncer 3 aka Anonymous5771 is changing them to locksmiths. I thought they were getting rid of the GAIS.
(unknown) 11/27/13 1:09 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 11/28/13 12:48 AM
Looks like this one bought the kit as well...except he's marginally brighter...or he got the upgrade. 'PARK' is the tip off..
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers n9oum.pp 11/28/13 12:49 AM
This one they placed the parking lot in the middle of a lake. http://goo.gl/979bWX  Looks like they need to remove the Key Duplication Service as an additional category since it is causing problems with the syncer. I did report this as spam so, hopefully they will get the issue fixed.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 11/28/13 1:26 AM
They have not got rid of the Sync bots, they have just tried to hide them, and I really do not know why.

Previously when spam was added like this, the sync bot would add the change to locksmith from places, and we could undo it. Now though, they do not list the changes, and they have removed the undo button from the Sync edits, meaning it is now even harder to fight spam.

RIDICULOUS...
(unknown) 11/28/13 1:31 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 11/28/13 9:43 AM
Just coming in this morning and auto-approved: particularly stupid Locksmith edit
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 11/28/13 10:19 AM
Looks like the word is out that Columbia, South Carolina is a Google spammer heaven: spamspamspamspam,spamspamspamspamspam.   There are more.  The phone numbers were all the same but he has, at least, bought some new phones .  

And, also looks like this guy finally bought the upgrade to the "How to Spam Google Locksmith" kit
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 11/28/13 12:23 PM
Your POI's were all reverted but I can still go through and rate the raters.  Indeed, you've been GLE'd
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 11/28/13 4:53 PM
Since I've already eaten my microwave turkey dinner I checked further on just one of my spam listings, Cayce Locksmith, Svc. I found their G+ page and I checked its Reviews from Around the WEB on superpages.cominsiderpages.com, and citysearch.com.  

How can this be?  How could our crack researchers and reviewers at Google have missed that all the URLs on this G+ page for 904 Knox Abbott Drive, Cayce, SC are about the &2.49 Dry Cleaners (also visible in Street View)

My faith in Google spam fighting is shaken.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Jet_ 11/28/13 9:00 PM
Admittedly, this is confusing. It appears the changes they've made over the "maintenance period" are downgrades. "xxx changes by Google" is very unhelpful and the lack of transparency very frustrating. The fact that obvious spam is so difficult to remove and apparently so easy to add is shameful. 

I begin to wonder if the only option is to allow the spammers to take over - and then Google would actually take care of the problem (after there is a locksmith on every block :D ).

Has *anyone* had success in quickly removing spam?? I often find features locked or denials from Google staff? May be better to let them invade instead of waste our time to encourage Google Map Staff to act (there appear to be many options, from granting more authority or powers to reviewers to better detection of spam like features).

Jet
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 11/29/13 1:13 AM
The problem in my opinion seems to be that Places don't want/like/care about MapMaker. They see us as a nuisance/irrelevance. They can't understand how their data can be wrong, and they are closed to ways of fixing it.
But presumably as Places presumably is a revenue driver, and MapMaker is a cost centre, it allows them to shout much louder than anyone else.
It would not surprise me at all to see spam get even more increasingly difficult to remove. Either because they just don't care enough, or their systems are so broken that in order to allow as many legitimate businesses as possible, they have to allow as much of everything as possible.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 11/29/13 1:17 AM
To play devils advocate a little more... They like spam.

If a town has one licensed locksmith, and someone searches for locksmith in abctown, they will find that locksmith.

If that town gets 50 spam locksmith locations, and a user makes the same search, they will likely not get the licensed locksmith.

SEO for the legitimate business then gets business to pay for ranking, and business can be found again.

Without the spammers, Google does not get that revenue, but to fight the spammers would cost them even more than what they miss out on = lose/lose for Google...
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/2/13 3:59 AM
Just managed to find one that was undo-able.

If they make any change at all in MM after initial publication, you can still use the undo all upto this and it will include the places changes - and then I can delete the locksmith :)


Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Jason in PGH 12/2/13 1:58 PM
A way to discredit their reviews is to rate the edit, I usually say the edit should have been denied, because it is spammy, and say something like "This place does not exist, does not have a storefront, and is spam-like, all violations of Google Places, cause for removal."

It's tedious, but it will over time discredit their ratings.

Also, I've tried reporting the user as a spammer, waiting to see if anything happens.
(unknown) 12/2/13 11:10 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/4/13 6:32 AM
Managed to catch one of them in the act and got in there with a deletion before the category change, now just need approval...



Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/4/13 7:00 AM

This guy got tired before I did, and by the end his edits were going to review :)
The following (I think most of his spam) had my deletions in there before locksmith addition, and are in need of review please :)
The other thing I noticed was that normally as soon as one went to review, they undid it.

http://goo.gl/gDyvMl

Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/4/13 7:05 AM
http://goo.gl/AasMzH

My fingers are tired, but thought I'd get this in there as well :)
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/4/13 7:09 AM
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/4/13 7:19 AM
Two more:
http://goo.gl/PeCnZu
http://goo.gl/fW3E0l

And I have been thinking about prevention methods, so here's a few more suggestions:

Any place added via mapmaker cannot be claimed for 24 hours, and then can only be claimed by the user who added it for a further week (to stop hijacking)
Any place added cannot have categories or names changed for 24 hours, not even with approval, and for a following week without approval
Any contact information added/changed cannot be used for verification for 24 hours
If they cannot stop new users requiring moderation, there should be a strict limit of one unapproved POI addition per 24 hours - how many legitimate users actually need to add more than 1 without review??

Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/4/13 7:43 AM
http://goo.gl/IP3NYQ


Too much now to keep posting, just keep an eye on the profile listed above, he is still going and so am I, so lots to review :)
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers M.Jones (RL-USA) 12/4/13 8:08 AM
I just plugged through and approved all of them - of course with the current trust levels, my approval means little to Google. Hopefully its enough to convince the automated moderator to pay them a visit.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/4/13 8:20 AM
Yeah I am in one of my all too frequent moderation months currently, or a lot of these would have gone straight through... The GAM does seem to be fairly helpful to me at the moment though.
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 12/4/13 12:46 PM
Keith,

I went through the list but a few are still pending.  You may need another US RER.  The garage doors seem to be gone but not the locksmiths
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 12/4/13 1:03 PM
Yep, do a lot. they'll get tired before you will
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers jim.jaggers 12/4/13 1:12 PM
Amen brother.  I'm hammering poor Jade pretty hard over in the Places private forum.  I've been pushing this since mid-summer and button hole every Googler I can to ask them about locksmith spam.  The situation has continued to deteriorate with no answer from Google other than they don't like spam either.

I know Google wants to keep their algorithms pretty close to their vest; but I feel that this deserves an answer that addresses the problem, rather than one that just acknowledges it.

This has been a great thread by the way.  I've referred to it a couple of times in my Jade hammering thread.
(unknown) 12/4/13 2:03 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/4/13 3:16 PM
OK so I had a bit of a break for a few hours, came back, and carried on, and have made a few observations:

My eyes hurt
I want Google to pay for my mice and RSI treatment...
This guy is getting bored. I hope he realises just how little of his crap is still left on the map. When I started today I started 5 seconds after his first edit, and was keeping pace with him just about. In the last hour I have eliminated everything I missed in the previous 4 hours. Although I put that down partly to improved processes on my end, trying to aim for 10 deletions/minute :)
It seems that the longer a POI has been on the map from this guy, the easier it is to remove. Everything over half an hour old I had auto publish on. Anything newer went into moderation
They are not very good, or nearly as quick, with the places edits - even when they do it they are missing the locksmith change 95%+ of the time (hoping this is a trend and not just this guy missing it... not holding much hope though.)
If I add a deletion before it hits places, does it prevent them adding locksmith to it, or, does it prevent approval?

I still have a bunch in moderation, if people could go through that would be awesome. https://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=66&uid=211473461704476506766 I just really don't want to get GLE'd... So if anyone sees anything they can't approve, like a duplicate deletion (there may be some) etc, just drop me a note on it to undo please :)


Thanks to Mara, gzub, M.Jones and anyone I missed who reviewed so far.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 12/4/13 4:45 PM
That was creepily quick for some edits including in the UK.  I didn't have much effect on others in the US...went through page 4.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 12/4/13 4:49 PM
Thanks, Dan

I'll try using this URL for marking fakes
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers M.Jones (RL-USA) 12/4/13 6:46 PM
I just caught a new "trick" they're doing as well.

If they submit an edit and it does go into moderation, they'll try an Undo it before a vigilant editor catches it to deny it. They'll then try submitting another edit, if it auto-publishes they continue unabated. If the second edit goes into moderation, they abandon the account (or so far that's what it appears happened)

Dan -

The unlocking of the Locksmith category might open it up to a flood of new spam coming in at a faster rate since it eliminates the two-step process they're now employing. Ideally, any edit adding a Key Duplication Service, Locksmith, Alarm Installer, or any of the other commonly used categories should automatically go into review, even if it originates in Places (unless Places wants to start policing their own realm for this garbage instead of GLE's harassing us for cleaning up their mess). Likewise, a edit with sufficient trust should be able to, at minimum, remove any edit with the same amount review as it took to put the edit on the map. So these Parking Lot seed records should be deletable without further review (locked or not), since they were added without review.

I've deleted over 175 spam records today by catching them before they were locked (In addition to all the reviews on Keith's, Eastwest's and other editors that are also chasing these people). I also review the initial add record, and mark it as spam, but the ongoing Trust/Moderation issues is likely not raising the bar high enough (I also report the profile as a spammer) to ever get the system to force these users into moderation for all records (or trigger the automatic denier) - which is sad. I haven't had any time to do any other mapping work the past few days as I'm wasting all my time trying to stop people from trashing the map.
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers M.Jones (RL-USA) 12/5/13 6:33 AM
Given the current (dysfunctional) state of Moderation that we've discussed in other threads, I doubt they could get it to work right for months. Just getting the existing Moderation/Review algorithms working would choke a good portion of it in the bud, since newbie accounts would have most of their early edits moderated - allowing the spambusters to eliminate them before they even show on the map (and if their trust levels drop like they're supposed to, the spam accounts will self-destruct on their own, meeting the "Automated Denier" sooner rather than later).

Likewise, if post edit reviews (for auto-published edits) worked against their trust level like it is supposed to, even if they did get to the point of un-moderated additions, by rating the edits properly it should - by the 9th or 10th negative review - put them back in moderation and on the road to the "Automated Denier"

Of course this is all armchair theorizing, since we're not Google Insiders and don't have the influence to convince them to make the fixes that are necessary.
(unknown) 12/5/13 7:42 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers n9oum.pp 12/6/13 12:55 AM
Now we have Comcast as a locksmith. http://goo.gl/Zdkbt3  This is a joke Google really needs to get there act together. How does a Parking lot for Dunton end up being Comcast. And then a locksmith.
(unknown) 12/7/13 9:53 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers M.Jones (RL-USA) 12/7/13 10:24 AM
Was there a change made by Google in the last 24 hours?

I had one of these spammers drop a Parking Lot in my area, that was "pending". I pulled it up and sure enough it was waiting approval for addition. I, of course denied it, then pulled up their profile, which had only 3 additions - all "pending". I denied the remaining 2, and marked the editor as a Spammer. Of course my low trust levels on reviews means I alone won't stop these (and the spammers will probably figure out how to game the review system next), so the more negative reviews the merrier to deliver the message.

Here's this guy's profile: https://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=66&uid=202451689969358560102

Lets hope that Google's finally getting to the point of choking off the flow of this garbage.
(unknown) 12/7/13 10:27 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 12/7/13 10:30 AM
If the change was just in the past 24 hours, then it probably woudn't affect an account that had hundreds of approved edits before then, even if it was just it the few days before then.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers M.Jones (RL-USA) 12/7/13 10:31 AM
Maybe not for profiles that were initialized before the change, but now applies to profiles created since the change?

To change "defaults" for a new profile would be easy and done at a single point in script. To touch the existing profiles would be a major query/update operation in a database (which needs to be done to fix the ongoing Trust/Moderation issues)
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/7/13 10:51 AM
It's probably more likely a newbie who hasn't quite figured out how to do it yet.
(unknown) 12/7/13 11:07 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 12/7/13 12:28 PM
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 12/7/13 12:55 PM
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 12/7/13 1:12 PM
A different strategy? There are way too many new locksmiths in Columbia, Charleston and Greenville all newly added by Google.  Kolarick Family Chiropractic  does seem a surprising place for a locksmith.
(unknown) 12/8/13 8:54 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers W12 engine 12/8/13 9:06 AM
Yes, they seem to have a heart and brine. Yes, brine. Let's do some brine-storming on this issue. 
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/8/13 9:52 AM
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/8/13 10:32 AM
If anyone is please using this account to delete spam, can they please claim it and set it to use a proper nickname: https://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=66&ptab=0&uid=211208167219805279610

Having an anon account, created today that only does locksmith edits does look suspicious, even if it is to remove POI's - it could well be construed as an attempt to gain trust, or to remove a rivals spam. On the other hand, if it is a regular editor who has created a specific account just to fight spam, that is really not advisable.

That said, the following profiles are all to add to the list to be reported:
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers M.Jones (RL-USA) 12/9/13 11:39 AM
Danny -

I looked at the 4 listings, two of which were marked closed in Places (since the spammer started down that road on all 4 of claiming them for the insertion of real spam, but stopped when he/she realized we were beating them to the punch on deletions), the other two remain intact and open - I have submitted a separate request for deletion on each, which is pending approval.

I too this morning had a Listings Editor deny the edit, but in my case the Spammer finished the process, and got their Spam record created (and of course locked to us). That one really chaps my hide, but all we can do is "report" it for removal:
https://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=55&editids=FgQSsTKW864Pgc8vH5&iwloc=0_0&t=h&dtab=history

I don't worry much about how its marked, just that the listing is not visible on maps should be the objective.

(PS I saw the one you just submitted in a separate message while I was typing this, and it too was removed, so nothing to worry about on it).
(unknown) 12/9/13 8:03 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Manish.S 12/10/13 12:59 AM
Hello,

How to edit or remove spam listing that have a lock icon on it? If you look at these listings anyone can notice high level of spam but still these are performing well on search results. Those listings are given below:



I have also tried reporting via "report a problem" link many days ago. But I think a spam once published and locked is no more considered as spam


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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Manish.S 12/11/13 1:39 AM
Hi consciounessbliss,

Is that email id specifically for reporting about spam listing? And can anyone report about spam?

Do you have any idea about response action time, if mailed to this email id?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers geopgeop (RL-USA) 12/11/13 6:25 PM
It's also used for appeal if blocked from using Google Map Maker: see http://www.google.com/mapmaker/intl/en_ALL/mapfiles/s/guidelines.html at bottom.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/13/13 9:44 AM
Have to agree with you here now. The last couple of days I have been able to go back to fighting black hat SEO's rather than locksmith spammers. Still the odd locksmith getting through, but most of  the accounts I was watching are getting an awful lot going into moderation (and then being reverted, obviously)

There's now a new (to me) spam trend in the UK whereby 1 edit anons will add a phone number to an unclaimed listing, in the hope using it to claim it. However, the re-purposed GAIS3 bot is actually doing something good, as the numbers are immediately removed again.
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Manish.S 12/13/13 11:07 PM
Please check another kind of spam:


All these listings belongs to same person. The urls used in these place pages are different but have same designs and same content. The trick is that, they are using a new contact number every time for validating their listing with different urls and at different fake addresses. None of these listings have correct business names, they are all search keywords, and these listings are doing well in search results.

Can anyone do something about these spams?

(unknown) 12/14/13 9:07 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 12/15/13 11:21 PM
Really irksome Locksmith spam
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers M.Jones (RL-USA) 12/16/13 5:14 PM
I know you and I can sit here all day and armchair quarterback this, but I tend to disagree on the unlocking of the Locksmith category.

We've already seen what happens when a listing is hijacked in Google Places for Business, and a legitimate locksmith gets his listing flagged as spam. Unlocking this category means that, despite him being legitimately listed correctly in Google Places for Business, hidden on maps (unless a bug makes him visible) and properly following the guidelines - he could see his listing vaporize, either by a diligent spam-fighter, or by a fraudster trying to drive more people to his fraudulent business.

Likewise, fraudsters could add their spam at a multitude faster rate than they currently are, knowing that while the records aren't locked, the spam busters will never be able to keep up.

What needs to be done is leave the Locksmith category locked from being added on new/existing POI's, and general edits on existing POI's with the category in MapMaker. Removals of POI's with the category should be unlocked - with one restriction - all deletions go to GR's or the dedicated Spam Team for review/approval - no GLE's.

Likewise, Places needs to lock any newly claimed listings from edits for 24-48 hours, much like it was with Postcard verification (since that obviously has given way to an automated phone based verification). In addition, any radical category change (i.e. Parking Lot to Cable Company, Parking Lot to Locksmith, etc.) should face a review (again, preferably not by a GLE) before pushing the change back to Maps/MapMaker. Likewise anytime the Locksmith category is added or deleted should face the same review.

I recently did a database search on the Texas Department of Public Safety's website for Licensed Locksmiths in 3 cities in my immediate area. There were 5 licensed locksmiths across the 7 ZIP codes in the area I covered. I reported the remaining 20+ entries (not all of them locksmiths, but had the locksmith category) for the Spam Team to review, which was 6 days ago (12/10). The fact that it takes that long for these spammers to get flushed is a problem - the reported accounts have been abandoned and the spammer has long moved on to other spam accounts. The fact that the "Report" option is not available on every locked record in MapMaker is a problem.

There are many means of using automated methods to help clear this backlog, using simple logic and review of the history, a bot could flush most of the recent garbage in a few days. It could watch trends and patterns and suspend accounts that are suspicious. It could follow spam-buster trends (ie a spam-buster flags 5-10 of the recently added "parking lots" as a spam edit, should have been denied) and retroactively hide/lock all other POI's associated with that profile regardless if it was claimed in Places or not.

Alas, I don't see anything happening quickly, as Google has shown little interest in trying to fix what's broken (look at the ongoing issues with GLE's).

That's my $.02 on the subject.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 12/16/13 5:40 PM
incipient spammer: http://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=66&uid=212371768028580042264.  Incorrect phone numbers added for Irmo, SC (not a toll call) and Myrtle Beach, SC (call center for Hotel Indigo chain said that did not own Indigo Inn).  This is not clever.
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/18/13 9:53 AM
Has anyone noticed recently the wave of buildings being added by the spam accounts? Not sure if it is to boost edit count or percentage, to give a veneer of respectability, or a vain attempt to stop Google just undoing every edit they ever made. Either that or just trying to mask their other edits...
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 12/18/13 11:43 AM
It's a common technique, for example there is GM Ed, or is his name Theia?  GM Ed's latest edit is to fix something that someone complained about in the Map Maker G+ Community, and both accounts are doing a bunch of building edits lately; but it doesn't hide their past of working together one producing spam.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/18/13 1:02 PM
Theia is the sort of account I was mainly referring to. It appears to be linked to at least 20 other accounts that I have been investigating over the past week. Nasty little network of spammers. Probably have 10-15k edits in the last month between them.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 12/18/13 1:06 PM
I found Theia via Ed's account, so they're both part of it.  Ed did the classic "I'll follow an RER's edits around and approve them, they should all be good edits and so approving good edits should earn me trust."  When the same guy approves your edits in Canada, the UK, Mexico and the US; you look a little closer.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/18/13 2:17 PM
I found Theia via Ragnarok http://goo.gl/QCceFx
I found Ragnarok via Tiamat http://goo.gl/2bcigF
I found Tiamat via Ben211013 http://goo.gl/98tQH4
I found Ben211013 via Sam http://goo.gl/OiX7Zu
And so on and so on etc etc

I am still in the process of reviewing the historical edits on all accounts to find all the linked accounts. When I have it all together, what's the best way to proceed to report this to Google other than just reporting each account?

I also do approve some of your edits I see, but only if they are obvious ;)
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers A fish called Wanda 12/18/13 7:09 PM
Bad....

Perhaps it is because of his / her high density of edits? 3500 edits in 31 days?
The trouble with algorithms and machines....!

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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers RagnarokMM 12/19/13 12:28 AM
Hi,
I saw my account here. I will explain you a little part of my story as a Mapper and why I'm not the spammer you vitiated me.  The only reason I'm editing in MapMaker is to make better map which is the purpose, that's why there is the MapMaker. The only edits I'm doing is adding buildings that are not visible in MapMaker and businesses that I'm finding in internet, social media and so on. After that I'm adding the business and that's all. Since the last changes in MapMaker every business no matter of the type, SAB or not is visible:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Plumber+Las+Vegas+nv&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb
the results C & D are with hidden address, because the business is SAB, but:
here is the C's link in MM: http://goo.gl/YV5ker
and here is the D's link in MM: http://goo.gl/bV66En
So why I'm not allowed to add sab businesses in MM?
Now I'm connected with some other accounts that I really don't know! You are blaming them as spam account therefore mine is too?
I think all of my edits are by Google guidelines.
If my edits are spam, explain to me the following edits:
csuke - http://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=66&ptab=0&uid=211473461704476506766&start=0&sort=
This user is deleting business without checking them if they are real or not. The edits are made by 20-30 secs. After removing many businesses he/she is adding a lot of buildings too. Isn't he/she a spammer too if I am?
Also there is not any restriction for edits per day. If I have free time why I can't add some buildings or business that I find on the web?
And now you are saying my account is a spam. That's not right!
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/19/13 12:44 AM
Hi RagnarokMM, welcome to the forums.

Please show us one of your additions to the map that has a hidden address and we can let you know if it is valid or not.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 12/19/13 12:45 AM
SABs without storefronts are not permitted on the map.  Please see the attached guideline that explains that service area businesses listing addresses that are closed to the public are not permitted.  This has been the guideline for years.  That is because this is a map, not a business directory.  A map is a record of places to which I can go.  f I cannot visit the business, it has no place on a map.

The definition of spam in Map Maker as per the terms of service is adding items in violation of the guidelines.  Since it is not an occasional mistake, but rather every business you add is one not permitted on the map, you fit the definition of a spammer.

Your state that you are just helping out businesses that you found weren't listed.  But every one of these businesses is a SAB without a storefront, and also is the type of business a lead generator would add.  Your story thus does not hold water.

To add to it, there are a bunch of linked accounts doing the same thing and working on each other's additions, and then drawing buildings between to increase their edit count.  All of them do just spam and buildings.  Your story now holds even less water.

CSLuke is following the guidelines.

You are free to continue to adding buildings and anything else allowed under the guidelines.  Adding SABs without storefronts is not permitted.  In fact, the guidelines call for you to only add things where you have personal knowledge of them or can verify them in the aerials, which means adding places across the country based on finding them on social media is not allowed.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 12/19/13 12:46 AM
On Thursday, 19 December 2013 00:44:22 UTC-8, keith.a wrote:
Hi RagnarokMM, welcome to the forums.

Please show us one of your additions to the map that has a hidden address and we can let you know if it is valid or not.

Keith, he is referring to listings that he didn't add, but rather the owners properly added via Places; and saying that because they could do that he then should be able to add SABs.  This, of course, is not allowed; they can only be added via Places by the owner. 
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers RagnarokMM 12/19/13 1:20 AM


On Thursday, December 19, 2013 10:44:22 AM UTC+2, keith.a wrote:
Hi RagnarokMM, welcome to the forums.

Please show us one of your additions to the map that has a hidden address and we can let you know if it is valid or not.

Hi, keith.a
for now I'm not able to show example, because csuke deleted everything that was added by me. I'm sure there were businesses with hidden addresses. If I find something I will link the links here.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 12/19/13 1:23 AM
It is not possible to hide the address from Map Maker, so if you added them there then none had hidden addresses.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers RagnarokMM 12/19/13 1:45 AM
Okey,
explain to me this:
Search: https://www.google.com/search?q=plumber+traycy+ca&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb#channel=fflb&q=roofer+tracy+ca&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
Business: https://plus.google.com/102439221933112009467/about?hl=en
MapMaker link: http://goo.gl/rQukKi
A business not verified, visible address, visible in MM and obviously it's old business. Why this one is allowed to be shown and exists in MapMaker, but not that one that I'm researching for and after adding?
As I can see this is a business that has information visible on the web and because of this info it's added by Google bot and this business is not verified. So Google by it self is not following his rules?
The other problem that I'm seeking is when you remove a business from MapMaker it is removing it from everywhere, no matter if it is verified or not. Both MapMaker and Places are connected since last changes.
So is it correct to remove real business and literally ruining it?
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/19/13 1:57 AM
Just because you can find examples of businesses listed incorrectly, it does not allow you to ignore the rules.

You added this business this morning: http://goo.gl/h0LNYZ Does it have a hidden address?
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 12/19/13 2:02 AM
For the last time, you are not allowed to add SABs without storefronts via Map Maker.

I am not going to give lessons to you so that you understand better how to spam.  There is a guideline that says you cannot do it, and every business you add that way is eligible and will be removed.

Businesses that add themselves via Places and comply with their guidelines do not appear on the map, and thus are not in violation.

That one did not do so.  It's address is visible on the map.  We will delete it.  It is correct to remove it, it is spam.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers RagnarokMM 12/19/13 2:11 AM


On Thursday, December 19, 2013 10:28:51 AM UTC+2, RagnarokMM wrote:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Plumber+Las+Vegas+nv&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb
the results C & D are with hidden address, because the business is SAB, but:
here is the C's link in MM: http://goo.gl/YV5ker
and here is the D's link in MM: http://goo.gl/bV66En



On Thursday, December 19, 2013 12:02:12 PM UTC+2, Flash (RER) wrote:
Businesses that add themselves via Places and comply with their guidelines do not appear on the map, and thus are not in violation.


They do appear in map maker. After last changes every business appears in MapMaker.
 
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 12/19/13 2:28 AM
And they appeared in Map Maker for years before that.  I'm still experimenting, but it appears we have gone back to the way things were 6 months ago, which would mean the hiding of SABs in Map Maker was just a temporary experiment.  It makes no difference; the appeared in Map Maker for years before then and the rules were still the same then and remain the same now.  You cannot add them via Map Maker.  If they don't have hidden addresses in Maps, they are to be deleted.  They are not allowed to appear in Maps, that is the point of all the rules and what you were violating.

Why do you keep arguing when the guidelines were shown to you?
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers RagnarokMM 12/19/13 2:38 AM
What I mean is that even if the business is activated and it is with hidden address it is still visible in MapMaker and every Mapper can remove it, because in MapMaker the business is with visible address. This user csuke is doing exactly this. Businesses with hidden addresses are removed from mapmaker, because he/she can remove them and the address is visible only in mapmaker. I can't give an example, because the businesses are already removed.
I'm not arguing, do not get me wrong, I'm just trying to find out the truth!

6 month ago google bot was removing SABs from map maker, but without deleting the business. Now when you delete the business from Map Maker you are deleting the whole business. It is not appearing anymore in google. Is that correct, I don't think so! When mappers are removing the business they remove whole business. When Google Bot was removing the SABs from Map Maker the business still was alive. Now, can you see the difference?
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/19/13 2:53 AM
Google Maps is NOT a free advertising service. If businesses want to be listed, they must follow the rules. Your clients were not on the map before you added them, and they are not there now, ergo they have not lost anything.
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Debra Nickols 12/19/13 8:45 AM
Hello everybody,
very interesting topic.
I just want to ask one question...

I agree that it is against guidelines to add SAB businesses in MM but when you remove a place in MM it disappears from Maps also, no matter verified or not, no matter how is verified...it just disappears.

Here is example of how business with hidden address in Places shows in MM (I just searched random kw for random city, don't know this business at all)

Places: https://plus.google.com/115430879275444461544/about?gl=us&hl=en - properly hidden address
MM: https://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=39&fid=0x8644cc672d8094a1:0xe6dbb1847905cc0d - address is visible

So..the question:
Is it going to be legitimate to remove this place from MM? It is SAB business...(please don't remove it it is just an example). And if I'm a business owner and claim and verify via places my page by phone (this is one of the 2 options I think) which has been added by someone, Am I violating the guidelines and will I be punished with removing my listing from everywhere?...Sorry more than one question...oh and one more thing, can I as a business owner  edit my SAB business kws in MM or this will be violation too?

All this guidelines stuff is a little bit complicated, please enlighten me, from everything above I understood that you are experts. Thank you.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers treebles 12/19/13 9:20 AM
Debra,
The SABs with hidden addresses listings been displayed again in Map Maker is a mistake by Google that surfaced after the update of Map Maker, Google is supposed to fix this issue but so far nothing has been done.


And if I'm a business owner and claim and verify via places my page by phone (this is one of the 2 options I think) which has been added by someone, Am I violating the guidelines and will I be punished with removing my listing from everywhere?
No, there is no violation of guidelines by claiming a public Local listing created by somebody else through Map Maker in Places. Unfortunately, Google is given phone verification to business listings created through Map Maker and has resulted in spam abuse as the one described in this thread and other threads.


 can I as a business owner  edit my SAB business kws in MM or this will be violation too? 
There are no keywords in Map Maker or Places, you are referring to the business categories I think.
Although it is possible to edit the business details through Map maker, if you have a Places verified business you should be better off by doing all your edits through the Places Dashboard, specially if you available the new Places Dashboard.

Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Debra Nickols 12/19/13 9:47 AM
Thank you treebles for the answers. Things are more clear for me now.
So ...if I'm a business owner of a SAB my only option not to violate guidelines is to send myself postcard and verify my page via Places. Even if I find my business live on maps it is not a good idea to verify by phone because there is no way to know how my business got there. In my Business Dashboard I must hide my address and hopefully my business won't be removed from MM (cause it will be there because of this bug or mistake you mentioned in your answer). And also I should not edit or try to add custom categories or keywords or anything else in MM even if it is not possible to do it through the places dashboard.(SAB I mean again)
Did I understand correctly? Please tell me if I'm wrong and thank you again for your time.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 12/19/13 11:15 AM
Debra, just to be clear because RagnarokMM touched on it too, there is nothing to worry about the fact that a claimed, hidden address listing can be deleted in Map Maker, as those edits need to go to a trusted reviewer for approval.

Google collects data from many sources, in addition to Map Maker and Places there are database imports, web crawling, etc.  Once a listing is created by any source, it is visible in Map Maker.  There is no reason not to claim that existing listing if you are the business owner; as if you create a new one then the existing one will end up getting merged with it.  In fact, the best thing to do is to fix up the existing listing in Map Maker with fully spelled out address that is in all the right blanks, and then claim that.  In that way you know that Maps properly understands your address, which can make a big difference.

Now if you situation is that your business should have a hidden address to remain within guidelines, I'd recommend fixing it up, but with a note that says "I am the business owner, fixing the address so that I can then PIN verify immediately after through Places and get the address hidden.  Please leave a comment when approving so that I know it is ready for me to request the postcard."  A note like that would probably make the reviewer skip the step of deleting it, and instead just mark it to check again in a few weeks to make sure it is now hidden on Maps.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Debra Nickols 12/19/13 11:49 AM
More helpful info, thanks again. Sorry for the many questions I just want to understand things right ;) It became clear that a postcard verification is the best thing to do no matter claiming page or creating new one(for SAB). Can you only clarify the question about the custom categories, please. Will it be violation to add one or two in MM (not suggested in the dashboard )?
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 12/19/13 12:39 PM
Custom categories have always been discouraged on the map.  Places used to allow them, and then we would fix them via Map Maker due to the spam it created.  That is likely why Places no longer offers them.

The ability to put in a custom category remains in Map Maker for when a very obvious category is accidentally missing.  Trusted reviewers like myself will not approve many custom categories, and those that do make it through often later get removed.  Categories is not a place to keyword stuff, it is meant to group you with like businesses, the same way categories within the Yellow Pages used to work.

Another factor to consider, one is not supposed to use a general category if a more precise one exists.  For example, don't use Restaurant if Mexican Restaurant exists and that applies to you.  So even if you choose from existing categories, someone might trim it down for having too many categories that mean the same thing, are already implied by another category, should be replaced by an existing category, etc.

Just going with the odds, the chances are that your custom categories would not be appropriate; but perhaps they might.  If you can post the ones you are considering here we can better advise you as to your chances.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Debra Nickols 12/19/13 1:07 PM
I think your answer is clear enough. Sorry if my questions are a little bit out of the topic, but I was worrying that along with the places created by spammers a real one would be removed because someone like me don't understand what exactly is doing :D Thank you again, good luck with those Locksmith spammers and please don't be very harsh with inexperienced business owners. 
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/21/13 1:17 AM
Perhaps Google doesn't get this, but 404'ed profiles actually hinder us, unless all associated spam POI's are removed first!
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/21/13 3:13 PM
So decided to do some digging today, and with a little help, think this is one of the best ones so far, a profile connected to the above gave us:


Website homepage has no links to any of it's subpages for locations. Links are broken, and no evidence at all of any valid POI existence. They offer no explanation of what NWCET stands for, and they even spell their company name differently on different places. No Google search produces any references to this "business" apart from it's own website. Not bad for a website registered 14.5 years ago...

I then did a whois on the website & a Google search on the registered email address, which shows this guy (Richart Ruddie) who is not exactly very nice: http://800notes.com/news/A5mkuWWSVAQ/we-are-under-a-ddos-attack but doesn't exactly go out of his way to hide himself http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/business/2012/08/20/growing-industry-tries-to-repair-businesses-online-reputations.html http://www.richartruddie.com/projects.php

Removed and re-removed so many of these so far. One of his contractors, who is on the list from earlier keeps changing names and logos, they went by "Google Mapper Beth" for awhile. From her current profile: ChixyChai a reverse image search produced: http://goo.gl/7vrW8v

This gave:

Which led to this:

"Black hat spammer to the core!"
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 12/24/13 12:46 AM


On Monday, 23 December 2013 20:39:35 UTC, consciousnessbliss wrote:
This is funny:

Parking lots named after me, in my hometown.  You've done me proud.  Can you put one on top of the Space Needle?  I've always wanted to go there.  Never been.  

Well, if I disappear, you can always call the numbers on the listings and ask them where they put the body...

And we already have intent shown in the previous posts :) 
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 12/29/13 4:08 PM
I've noticed businesses not even involved in locksmith scamming using the locksmith category to lock their listing.  The secret is out in the spam world I think.  I am interested to know what you mean about deleting closed spam POI's.  It seems like when they are closed, job is finished right?
I have taken a new tact lately in fighting spam.  The spammers seem to be having trouble adding things to the locksmith category, and are once more limited to other categories that can be edited.  I was deleting these listings after which a GLE would deny my edit and do the edit themselves.  I was worried that eventually I would lose editing privileges due to a low ratio of positive edits/negative edits so I started removing any evidence of locksmith from the listing, and so far it has gone well.  There is still nothing to be done about locksmith category listings except report them.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 12/29/13 4:16 PM
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 12/29/13 5:05 PM

On Sunday, 29 December 2013 16:16:24 UTC-8, LocksmithVigilante wrote:

I will repeat what I told you 2 days ago in the other forum.  Your edit is considered spam, and thus no one with trusted reviewer status is going to approve it.
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers M.Jones (RL-USA) 1/2/14 11:52 AM
I've been getting a ton of GLEd edits this week - all cleaning up spam. Instead of deleting the spam (as the edit was intended) they're reverting the listings back to the original seed.

I object each denial (which I still think is broken since the November outage), and then reporting every one of them as Spam to let the Spam team do the cleanup.
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 1/2/14 3:14 PM
Spam is getting beyond ridiculous to the bizarre.  This edit is the hijack of a dead (died May 18, 2012) insurance agent's listing.  I reviewed but that didn't do any good.  Since it's still pending what do i do nest?
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 1/2/14 3:17 PM
Your denial appears to have stuck :)

I had a spate of these in my area for awhile. In almost all cases though, the change would be removed by sync almost immediately, so all that was left for me to do was report the user.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 1/2/14 3:28 PM
Thanks keith!  Turns out that he's been doing this all over the US I saw when i reported him as a spammer.  Looks like I was the just last one to report him. 

 I'm pretty sure that i reported him at least once before.  Maybe this time it will stick...
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 1/2/14 9:25 PM
Yeah this new crop of MM editors hasn't got a clue.  Divya and this guy both denied and reverted my attempts to delete a spam listing located in an apartment building.  Not sure what they are using to decide whether or not to approve or deny, but I suspect a magic 8 ball or a dartboard with "yes" and "no" interspersed plays heavily in their approve/deny flowchart. 
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Wthrwyz (RL-USA) 1/2/14 9:34 PM
Dan, I was able to publish your second attempts. The mountain is back where it belongs and has graduated first grade spelling, and the house once again shares a name with a much-maligned operating system.
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Wthrwyz (RL-USA) 1/3/14 2:03 PM
I feel your pain, Dan. I got GLEd today: http://goo.gl/pg7zjR
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Wthrwyz (RL-USA) 1/3/14 2:29 PM
You probably can't review it because it has the Hotel category, which I believe is locked.
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Gary D. 1/3/14 2:58 PM
Spam Fighter? Or Spammer?


Looks like a spam fighter, Till he did this:

Take a look at the history.

The original listing of
"Cash Consultant" turned into this:

100% Spammer.

Sad.
I reported him as a "Spammer"
He hopefully will be blocked in the next few days.


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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 1/3/14 6:08 PM
More about Allstate spam (I haven't had the heart to look at the other agencies yet).  The same edit apparently was not denied yesterday because it appeared again today and i denied it again but that doesn't mean that it will leave.  This woman died on May 18, 2012.  What more can MM want?

I did find a batch coming through yesterday as Keith warned me.  Today i began checking all the approved Allstate .agents and found the first three out of four had been spammed including Ms Weaver whose  edit had been marked as closed and not removed.  The response of the other two was "Erk, What am i supposed to do?"  

May I re-edit for them and remove the phone numbers as i did on this pending edit or will this be considered as more negative input on my part?

On the positive side, one of the phony numbers that i called assured me that i had already won a two week vacation to The Islands
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 1/5/14 6:53 AM
Love the way they are still trying to validate these:


Apparently you have to pay their lawyers before you are allowed to meet them?

Also would love to meet anyone willing to hire a lawyer who can't spell:

"NWCET's lawyers are always glad to meet you face to face out their offices to go over your case once you have retained their services"
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Jason in PGH 1/5/14 4:19 PM
Haven't seen this in a while, but I've got a spammer.

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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 1/6/14 7:30 PM
How depressing... On another note:  guess what dead insurance agent tried to re-open her edit today  I reported it and asked for removal and then listed the edit for delete as Other =sacrilege since she would have to become one of the undead to continue as an agent.  Oddly, that disappeared
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 1/7/14 8:32 PM
I don't know about you guys but my ratio of approved:disapproved edits is getting worse every day, with these bozo GLE's denying spam removal so that the spammers can then revert the spam listing back to spam.  Not sure how many more I can do before my MM profile is locked from editing.  Might have to start concentrating only on the area within 1 mile of my shop to conserve my editing abilities.  It's hard not to get angry at the GLE's.  All you have to do is look at the listing name, and then look at the categories for that listing.  What locksmith is also a surgeon who installs car alarms professionally?  It takes me two seconds on a bad day to know that such a listing is spam.  Why are they denying removal of such baloney? 
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 1/7/14 9:24 PM
Am I to understand, then, that the spreadsheet is no longer a secret?
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 1/8/14 7:46 AM
GR jumps on the spam approval train: http://goo.gl/NSt4Wh
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Wthrwyz (RL-USA) 1/8/14 11:28 AM
What a doozy, Dan. Your guess as to the actual case is very plausible.

------ Everything I write below this line is intended to be sarcastic. --------

On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 1:53:21 PM UTC-5, consciousnessbliss wrote:

Either way, how am I supposed to know that if history isn't available to me?  

Develop the same set of ESP skills the GLEs seem to have.

Why wouldn't the GLE remove the POI or correct the original details?  

A combination of apathy, red tape, and minimum-wage laws.

What happened to the accounts associated with the POI (especially in the Dashboard), and what's to prevent them from re-opening the POI? 

F-ing magic. 
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers M.Jones (RL-USA) 1/8/14 11:41 AM
Dan et al -

I opened an issue tracker on the hidden history back before the "official" announcement by Google they did it. Currently only 3 people have starred it, so that's where we need to raise the attention on the issue there:


Likewise, since I object to every bad review by GLE's, and the fact that since the multi-day outage ZERO of the objected edits have been revisited by GR's that tells me that the "I Object" function is broken for edits in a "reverted" state (much like the edits that are in a "reverted" state don't show in my list of edits, denied or otherwise). That issue is also reported, and also only had 3 people starring it:


Getting Google to fix these issues will definitely help with the war on spam - but to date, despite both being opened on December 2nd, neither have even been reviewed internally by Google.
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers M.Jones (RL-USA) 1/8/14 12:11 PM
Oh and I forgot one other issue - POI's and other objects that are supposed to be hidden are visible (which I think is part of the problem with the volume of Service Area Businesses that are being denied by GLE's).


This only also has only 3 stars right now, and has not been reviewed by the powers that be.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 1/8/14 5:22 PM
Speaking of edits that should be removed instead of closed, the DEAD Allstate insurance agent was back again today.
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers W12 engine 1/10/14 11:14 AM
Thinking out loud, if this article on wiping out spam needs a revisit? Overtime, hyperlinks are broken and I found one on this page. Your thoughts.
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 1/13/14 10:34 AM
Don't forget that Google can't simply scrape the site you were using; that would be copyright violation.

When they scrape sites for Search, they don't then present that information on their own pages, but they provide you a link to go the the scraped page and get the info there.  That's then completely different, instead of taking information from sites they are acting as a directory and directing traffic to those sites, so there's not copyright violation.

I know that some of the "experts" keep saying that Google scrapes websites, but we've been told by the Map Maker product manager that they import databases that they've been provided.  The way he phrased it, most would be purchases; as if we report issues they can actually demand that the provider improve/reformat the information.

Any database is of course going to have mistakes, and so a report here or there is not going to ring alarm bells; but if a particular database constantly provides bad data, then they are going to go back to the source and demand changes.
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 1/13/14 2:12 PM
It's not my place to tell them; but I think what would have an impact is if GMM started presenting a bill to Places for the hours spent working on fixing the data Places added.  Of course, they couldn't do that until the plug the flaw that allows brand new mappers to add them; otherwise if Places increased their criteria to filter out bad results then Places could bill GMM for having to verify all these listings that were added by people with no trust.

It comes down again to two departments with differing goals.  Though you are right, they both should be really concerned if bad data increases significantly.  Google is the winner is so many areas simply because people go to them because they know they'll get the best results.  If that becomes an uncertainty, then there are serious concerns.  Data quality is/should be the number one factor for Google.
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Jason in PGH 1/21/14 4:17 PM
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 1/24/14 8:18 AM
Look at this giant chunk of parking lot to locksmith spam that came down the line yesterday:
https://www.google.com/mapmaker?iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=pyNtycQIAYv2GCIbbs&ll=47.69934,-122.335989&spn=0.10109,0.186768&z=13&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.688743,-122.287447&hyaw=103.3138313865055
https://www.google.com/mapmaker?iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=IQRfhrRE-yCQYMaXf1&ll=47.713782,-122.336794&spn=0.101062,0.186768&z=13&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.734114,-122.345439&hyaw=194.4083647045896
https://www.google.com/mapmaker?iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=IQRfhrR90LE5QTa4vD&ll=47.69934,-122.336794&spn=0.10109,0.186768&z=13&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.686542,-122.363299&hyaw=281.00082540258614
https://www.google.com/mapmaker?iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=IQRfhrRp8JOilshDgG&dtab=overview&ll=47.696049,-122.336794&spn=0.101097,0.186768&z=13&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.659401,-122.335013&hyaw=71.3730901792982
http://www.google.com/mapmaker?iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=FxI6Scmy5VD7hqGoDb&ll=47.65944,-122.365496&spn=0.000574,0.00103&z=20&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.659535,-122.365257&hyaw=236.33871091485386
http://www.google.com/mapmaker?iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=KeIS7IvGuxp7sy0aEu&ll=47.612631,-122.318904&spn=0.0368,0.065918&z=14&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.610364,-122.308405&hyaw=171.33621058024573
http://www.google.com/mapmaker?iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=KeIS7IvWPu7kONdFK2&ll=47.733932,-122.333&spn=0.146859,0.263672&z=12&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.746622,-122.290156&hyaw=270.9885414908964
http://www.google.com/mapmaker?iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=KeIS7IvB4LsnlrxFCM&ll=47.684116,-122.352022&spn=0.146999,0.263672&z=12&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.67663,-122.392955&hyaw=79.75768346323444
http://www.google.com/mapmaker?iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=KeIS7Iv_iKMEZc0zxD&ll=47.684116,-122.351679&spn=0.146999,0.263672&z=12&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.687194,-122.374092&hyaw=276.2536705695186
http://www.google.com/mapmaker?iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=KeIS7IvgB6Dsuz4YQq&ll=47.69771,-122.351679&spn=0.146961,0.263672&z=12&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.710527,-122.353859&hyaw=182.3868617756499
http://www.google.com/mapmaker?iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=KeIS7IvUAVfRXEqu0P&ll=47.69778,-122.332015&spn=0.146961,0.263672&z=12&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.710168,-122.289797&hyaw=19.777506023835386
http://www.google.com/mapmaker?iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=KeIS7Ivq5QZBwUURq0&ll=47.684116,-122.324413&spn=0.146999,0.263672&z=12&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.687735,-122.282204&hyaw=85.52195573756607
http://www.google.com/mapmaker?iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=KeIS7Iv6thjCotP6f9&ll=47.684116,-122.329694&spn=0.146999,0.263672&z=12&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.660976,-122.2872&hyaw=272.94182487490343
http://www.google.com/mapmaker?iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=pyNtycQIAYv2GCIbbs&ll=47.708499,-122.329714&spn=0.146931,0.263672&z=12&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.688743,-122.287447&hyaw=103.3138313865055
http://www.google.com/mapmaker?iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=IQRfhrRgjZyz-qEgiX&dtab=overview&ll=47.692198,-122.355871&spn=0.146976,0.263672&z=12&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.646413,-122.396933&hyaw=88.81153174532025
http://www.google.com/mapmaker?iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=7bEvrIN8d97jX2iB02&ll=47.773297,-122.351679&spn=0.146748,0.263672&z=12&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.78146,-122.343165&hyaw=356.2034617938509
http://www.google.com/mapmaker?iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=7bEvrINUWf2g9OTC5u&ll=47.741269,-122.351679&spn=0.146838,0.263672&z=12&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.754132,-122.351201&hyaw=196.08255999943069
http://www.google.com/mapmaker?iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=7bEvrIN05HjdBRgLGE&dtab=overview&ll=47.697299,-122.351679&spn=0.146962,0.263672&z=12&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.651609,-122.378083&hyaw=118.33261803588815
http://www.google.com/mapmaker?iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=7bEvrINTUcsNkEwduA&ll=47.708217,-122.351679&spn=0.146931,0.263672&z=12&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.671298,-122.317358&hyaw=267.00914987303054

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Re: Is there any credibility given to an editor or reviewers Geo-Location? Website Design Concepts 1/25/14 1:15 PM <This message has been deleted.>
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 1/26/14 4:19 PM
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Spam Terminator 2/1/14 8:43 PM
Are you guys giving up? Are you all done fighting spam?
Whats going on???

There use to be so many good spam fighters,
These days, all i see is Spammers, taking over, Come on, Dont give up!!

Where are all the good guys????

Here are some spammers from the last few days,
Cant delete them, any super google man can help here?



Please join the fight, and paste here all the spammers you see, i am sure someone is looking.

Thank you!

Ray

 
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Spam Terminator 2/1/14 11:29 PM
I know, this is some BS.
Its been going on for months. all google need to do is block this option of converting parking lots to Locksmith.
Another big BS is that they are adding "Normal" looking listings, and converting them to Locksmith.
And after you delete them, they just change it back from the Places dashboard, because the GLE's never delete the whole account.

Every time i see spammers add Spam i will post it here.

one more...
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Spam Terminator 2/2/14 11:06 AM
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 2/2/14 11:25 AM
For whatever reason, the spammers seem to be converting their parking lots to key duplication which is easy to delete.  It takes Google so long to get around to deleting it though that I suppose the spam listing serves its purpose as it is still active for a week or two before Google deletes it. 
Just yesterday a woman told me, "You should really move to Olympia.  There is nobody there that will open a car for less than $300!"  Apparently the spammers have so much control over the search results and adwords on google that unless you know what you are looking at, it is actually impossible to find a business that is not a scammer (using Google).
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Spam Terminator 2/2/14 12:31 PM
Mr. "LocksmithVigilante"
They are converting it to "Locksmith" and the listing is locked, and can stay for weeks and weeks.

Look at the links for users i pasted before.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Spam Terminator 2/2/14 12:36 PM
Parking Lot-> Locksmith+SAB


This will stay for a while.
This is just an example. Multiply this by 1000.
This is what they added last few days, all around the US
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 2/2/14 12:38 PM
I know that they do that, I am just noticing that a lot of the time they don't.  I suspect that they don't want to make the problem such a huge deal that Google actually becomes motivated to shut off the loophole, and thus shut off a major source of these scumbags' revenue.  If it takes a week to remove them and it is really easy to add them, there is no reason to switch to locksmith category instead of key duplication anyway, especially since both categories show up if you search google maps for a locksmith.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Spam Terminator 2/2/14 12:43 PM
I think you are over analyzing this whole issue.
You think there is one guy sitting and saying "Mmmmm, Today i will add only 300 "Key Duplication Service" to my sapmmy listings, anf tomorrow about 450 more, and this way google will keep the loop hole open."

You are very naive.

There are so many spammer out there, so many different loopholes, and they all go for what ever the can get.
Loop holes in Places, in MM, in the Verification system, hijacking listings, converting listings.
Its a whole party out there. Its now 1 loop hole.

Its 1 Google - ignoring the issues, and supporting spam.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Spam Terminator 2/2/14 12:52 PM
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Spam Terminator 2/2/14 9:10 PM
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 2/7/14 8:18 AM
None of these are open for user review, Google will have to do so.
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 2/10/14 7:57 AM
Am I going mad here or was someone able to publish a locksmith POI in mapmaker??: http://goo.gl/NMDaiA


Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers geopgeop (RL-USA) 2/10/14 8:50 AM
I'm even more amazed that one of our volunteer RERs approved it. Time to go yell, sheesh.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers thirdandbroad 2/10/14 10:43 AM
These spammers are getting downright ballsy!  The chutzpah of this guy!
(unknown) 2/10/14 11:01 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Maki Badfox 2/10/14 2:02 PM
Sounds like a job for Matt Cutts.  Too bad he's only in Search.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Maki Badfox 2/10/14 11:25 PM
What's this spreadsheet about then?
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers AEGe 2/12/14 1:34 PM
We have been filing a complaint with the attorney general of Colorado. It seems that the attorney general in different states need and want all of us to come and complain together! Why are none of you joining us?

It is a nationwide problem and the attorney generals needs to get together on this.

Forget about Google! We have tried it. Google cannot help us because they are using an automatic system and it’s not a top concern for Google at this point to fight the locksmith spam.

Just to let you know, we have been sending lists for months to Google of fake locksmiths listings. Google responded… We don’t have the manpower to take care of it or give it attention.

Please, lets understand the real solution to the problem. We have to use law enforcement.  The attorney general in Colorado finds it very interesting and i'm sure the attorney general in your state will find it interesting as well. Just try to contact him and ask to contact the AG’s in Colorado for more information.

There is a lot of information that I know about these people. I myself will be happy to assist you and answer more questions you may have.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 2/12/14 2:06 PM
I agree the best way is to circumvent Google or find somebody with leverage over Google (and the phone companies) but I sent a letter to the WA state attorney general about six months ago explaining the problem and my company name.  They sent back a letter explaining that of I wanted to complain about my own company I had to have proof that I hired my own company.  That shows you how much the was state attorney general cares!  They barely read my letter and didn't understand it.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers AEGe 2/12/14 2:54 PM
The attorney general doesn’t understand. You are talking about millions of dollars tax free money. They don’t understand that most of the employees are here on tourist visas. The attorney general definitely underestimates how big is the locksmith trade is. The attorney general doesn’t know that the there is only about 10 people running a big scale of locksmith companies with fake addresses all over the country. Run Local,  who recently ran away, was bringing in $100,000 a week!
If you want the AGs in WA to get your attention, you have to ask for a meeting. Ask your competitors to join you. Also follow the fake listing on a daily basis. Take screenshots of it and show the AGs how these people are adding hundreds of fake listings a day when Google removes one in months. Explain to the AGs that each listing is a full business and these people are opening hundreds of locksmith businesses a day, when a real locksmith will have only one listing in the area. Don’t give up!! The only reason the AGs didn’t give you the right response is because he doesn’t understand you are talking about millions of dollars a year tax free that is going to the country of Israel. The homeland security will be involved too because most of them are illegal to work here.
In your state can you see hundreds of fake listings? You are talking about 2 or 3 people running it. It will be not so hard to track them.

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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers randomwilly 2/14/14 10:07 AM

Just going to but in briefly to ask who this user is: http://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=66&uid=211583736793503149763


I don't know why he/she butted in to say a couple of my edits are correct (http://goo.gl/ZCWyOY and http://goo.gl/pD5w7P) and that something will be done soon, but the user doesn't appear to be employed by Google…  but they are active making "Building" edits here there and everywhere. Spammer tailing me, or some other goofiness I don't get?


I'll likely have some comments on spammers and the law, later, when I find more time.

Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 2/14/14 2:03 PM
No, that is a spammer. The building edits are a "technique" they use to try and hide their obvious spam.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers AEGe 2/14/14 6:30 PM
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers AEGe 2/14/14 7:39 PM
We will, we will making sure the Colorado AG's will call him
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers AEGe 2/14/14 7:55 PM
Im ready to get my family to the AG's building and just go to sleep there over night
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers AEGe 2/14/14 8:08 PM
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers M. Dawood Karim 2/14/14 10:10 PM
Hi there,
Yes, I have approved it without any comment as I found the local mapper trustworthy for a while! A locksmith with a contact number is a regular business here in Bangladesh and does not needed to be scrutinized (in  Map Maker Support, Google Map Maker Terms of Use and also in Bangladesh laws). These locksmith are doing business with proper permission from local government authority, and often they establish their shops in road side huts! 
Unlike yours, these locksmiths are not that much sophisticated and do their works with hand held tools; and usually they provide services for lost keys, fixing locks for travel bags etc.
That's why I didn't give any comments there!
Thanks for understanding!  
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers W12 engine 2/15/14 7:45 AM
The above post is likely in response to keith.a and geopgeop's discussion here : https://productforums.google.com/d/msg/map-maker/UL1Y5CEdUJA/CucQ_G8K35gJ

The RER has also left a comment on the now deleted edit. http://goo.gl/xvzJwI   
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers AEGe 2/15/14 8:35 AM
I called the Google Maps team from my Google Plus dashboard account. They have a click2call button during business hours. Google's response is that the MM system is blocked and all we can do is use the "report a problem" link in each listing itself. I can see some fake listings being removed after days, but then in the next day the spammers just add a few of them back in just a few hours. If Google's lawyer would receive a call from the AG's.... Google will start to take it seriously.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Cardice 2/15/14 8:38 AM
Could you care to clarify this "MM system is blocked "? Thanks.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers AEGe 2/15/14 9:51 AM
A Google employee told me that they are looking to shutdown the MM system. I don't have information about why, when, and what is next. But whatever happens, it looks like it's become worse for us. This is one of the reasons I think we are all shooting  blanks here with Google.

We can become more active instead of sitting our asses in front of the computer and get up and go out to the AG's office to get protection from the law with the AG's. (This is his job.) He is the state lawyer for the public. We need to get out from the box we have been in for years. It's not about saving Google anymore its about saving us.

We need to get all kinds of different locksmith companies to go to the AG's offices all over the country. Why doesn't anybody want to step up? Here in Colorado we did. Other locksmiths in other states need to come forward as soon as possible too. Just tell your AG's to contact the AG's in Colorado for more info.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 2/15/14 9:56 AM
You have misunderstood.  Places decided that those that had hid their address needed to be removed from Map Maker, as their address still showed there and so there could be privacy issues.  That's what is meant by "locking out" and "getting rid of Map Maker".

Next time you talk to them, when they tell you to use Report a Problem from within the item itself, tell them that Report a Problem generates a MM edit, and since the item isn't in MM, it won't let you.  Places staff are well known for not understanding.  I'd just respond "No, that's the point, that doesn't work due to the changes Places made.  Please provide a solution that does work."
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Spam Terminator 2/19/14 10:24 AM
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Maki Badfox 2/19/14 10:29 AM
If you have their accounts, the best thing to do is to just "Report user as spammer". This will automatically get anything they publish reverted by an automated spam cleaner. No need to go through every individual edit they've made and try to undo it.

Likewise, if you have a bunch of spam POIs, the best thing to do is to just delete them (or report them) as spam. This will reflect on their account, which should trigger an automatic spam cleanup later. (If it doesn't, then that's Google's fault, not ours).
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Spam Terminator 2/19/14 10:33 AM
MR - The Webspam Inquisition

You are very naive.

But i respect every spam fighter, keep doing whatever you think works, and i will do what i think work.

One thing i do know. "Report a problem" "Report as spammer" ect. Dont work.

By the time Google will even look at the report, the spammers already would have X100 more spam.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 2/19/14 10:44 AM
Mr. Spam Terminator, there is no need for personal attacks on this forum.  We are all working towards the same goal here, probably even Google is to some extent.  We are on your side working with the same crap tools so don't misdirect your frustrations at us.  Accusations of naïveté are counter-productive.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Spam Terminator 2/19/14 10:47 AM
"personal attacks" ?
God bless you,
Like i said, i respect you, and any other spam fighter.

Good luck.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Maki Badfox 2/19/14 10:53 AM
I don't think I am. Even if Google doesn't act on it right now, the data they need to do so in the future are all there, and that's what matters.  Making sure to provide Google with as much data about spam as possible is in some ways more important than trying to delete a dozen or so spam listings per day.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Spam Terminator 2/19/14 10:57 AM
I have no more faith or trust in google.
They are the #1 supporter of spam.

I am posting it here so RER's and Googlers could see it and delete it.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 2/19/14 12:33 PM

You are very naive.


This is not the first time you have said this to someone who does not hold the same opinion as you.  Please keep such comments out of the forum, it is disrespectful.

The GRs do not visit this forum.  The RERs have no more ability to remove those than you do, they use the same tools as you and have the same editing trust as any other user.  You are basically asking that someone else clicks "Report This" for you as you cannot be bothered.  Using that method will get almost all of these taken down, you just have to wait for it to get from the person that receives the report to the person that handles that sort of report.  

A select few of us have the ability to add it to the spam spreadsheet, but that is meant as a way of reporting items that failed to get taken down by following the regular processes.  The people that work on our reports there have other jobs and just occasionally check the sheet.  The sheet is thus no quicker nor any more successful than using "Report This".  If we were to flood it with all reports rather than using the proper reporting methods then it would become more than they can handle.  Since most will get handled by using the correct reporting methods, and will get handled by people who's primary job function is to handle those reports, that is the proper way to report them.  That is also the proper way to ensure it gets into the stats Google would look at to decide what problem they should focus on next.  Once proper methods have been tried, the few that didn't get removed after the majority did would be appropriate to be added to the spreadsheet.
(unknown) 2/19/14 1:48 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers W12 engine 2/19/14 10:21 PM
Maybe my suggestion is oft-repeated or I may sound very naive - did you fill the spreadsheet the one shared on this thread or the one referred to by consciousnessbliss on the forums? We've limited options ( Report a problem" "Report as spammer  etc ) to report issues. I've reported an issue and used all the available channels for the reporting, and now I don't have to do anything but wait for the resolution. 
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Maki Badfox 2/19/14 11:39 PM
Speaking of stats, California and Florida seem to be high-priority spam targets.  I'm finding more fake parking lots ("Park Parking Lot") in my spam sweeps in those two states than in any other state.  Has anyone else noticed this?

Additionally, I'm going to try to start putting out regular statistics on spam volume, distribution, and Google's efficiency at removing it.  No promises, but I hope to be able to do this on a weekly basis.  Currently, I'm just identifying spam listings labeled "Park Parking Lot", which seems to be a very popular locksmith precursor.  Are there any other known common locksmith precursor names?
(unknown) 2/20/14 12:22 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 2/20/14 12:42 AM
I was thinking about this myself.  I want to see statistics about how fast Google responds to spam listings that are reported in
1. the Mapmaker interface
2. the google maps interface
3. the spreadsheet

So far I have seen much faster turnaround with the spreadsheet but can't back it up with actual statistics.
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Nyagoslav 2/20/14 3:14 AM
Thanks for posting about the article here! This is actually a great thread, I will be digging into it.
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Spam Terminator 2/22/14 8:30 AM
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers randomwilly 2/22/14 12:50 PM

Woke up this morning, checked locksmiths in my area like I usually do, found a couple dozen had got added overnight. Some are addresses in New Jersey claiming to be locksmiths here in Kansas City. How does that happen?

I phoned a few of the spams when I couldn't verify on the Net just who they'd stolen the address from. And I found what I was expecting: They don't know their address either. One guy (and he answered 2 different numbers to 2 different companies) plainly admitted they're not local, that they use a subcontractor (a "technician").

Also, what is Google's aim in hiding many of these addresses? To help prevent Google-users from trying to locate a shop that isn't a shop? That doesn't work. Prospective customers call asking "Where's your shop?!" and they often do it AFTER driving to where they saw "the red dot" hovering on the Map, or their smart-phone app gave them directions to an SAB.

I'm thinking the "service" of hiding the address is extremely outweighed by the disservice of hiding addresses. If a Google-user were to hire a locksmith and the locksmith were to 1) pull a scam on them or 2) damage their property, then they have little recourse. If they want to press the matter legally, they can't. The scammer isn't at the "verified" address given to Google, and Google's hiding a lot of these addresses anyway. Scam companies are effectively masked from public scrutiny and from accountability by Google.

There ought at least be a requirement to have a website where the address given to Google is displayed. My own business address was verified, in part, in this way back when Google did manual reviews  (so why require websites with contact info from some and not others?).

(unknown) 2/22/14 5:02 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers randomwilly 2/23/14 12:40 PM
I meant how the addresses are hidden on Maps. People often ask for the business location before hiring the service, and they have every right to (The spammers inevitably react to it like it's a pointless and stupid question). Upset consumers have limited legal recourse for their complaints when a business location is hidden. 

The use of showing SAB's in MM would be two-fold: 1) we spam fighters can find if it's real or stolen address (though Google should be doing that) or the address of someone without a business license (assuming the government website is actually a complete record). And 2) spammers can get revenge on the SAB's of disliked legitimate businesses by hacking listings (it has happened) and making false reports that get the exact response from Google they're hoping for.
(unknown) 2/23/14 2:29 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 2/24/14 6:27 PM
Today all of the new locksmiths in the USA appear to be "On the second floor next to" some business.  It is funny because I can't recall ever seeing any locksmith business on any floor except the first floor of a building!
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers AEGe 2/24/14 7:32 PM
At first, I apologize if I sound too direct.
10 years ago I saw how the locksmith scammers flooded the 411 directory and 10 years later I can read everywhere online that someone is trying to tell someone there is locksmith spam on Google? Really? Google didn’t know that? And BTW has anybody ever heard about USA Locksmith from New Jersey? It looks like the  owner is still running the locksmith spam in the US from Canada. My question is how can anybody still have any questions about the scam? Why is everybody refusing to take a bigger step and use the law enforcement? So of course they will get away with it.. Nobody is doing anything effective to stop them.

(unknown) 2/24/14 8:18 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 2/24/14 8:31 PM
On the other hand, as AEGe just pointed out, this spam was around before Google was the medium.  While I would love to see Google improve it's spam handling and I'll keep discussing it with them behind the scenes; it is not Google that created the spam nor is their medium unique that is wasn't possible beforehand.  The big issue continues to be that tens of thousands of people are defrauded, and yet law enforcement does nothing.
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers an interested editor 2/28/14 8:45 PM
From the lack of response, I believe you have their answer.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Micro741 3/1/14 10:06 AM
Google has finally added some restrictions for business verification.. if you haven't realized yet.. business phone verification doesn't work anymore. Yey
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 3/2/14 5:18 PM
Timing is everything!  Only several years later...
While we wait for Google to figure out how to cauterize the other heads of this locksmith scam hydra, maybe somebody could help approve these deletions which were denied to me by GLE's:

https://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=55&editids=Z8_YAZX-Ypu_B8AO9v&iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&ll=47.775814,-122.310248&spn=0.000975,0.001876&z=20&lyrs=1&lyt=large_map_v3&htll=47.775814,-122.310248&hyaw=356.5986502703314

http://www.google.com/mapmaker?iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=39&fid=6093394236454131893:10111024358083235298&dtab=overview&ll=47.668505,-122.382327&spn=0.000977,0.001876&z=20&lyt=large_map_v3&htll=47.812547,-122.38268&hyaw=127.03933123561161

http://www.google.com/mapmaker?qmo=re&iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=Z8_YAZXuf2gR_G1eOm&ll=47.734351,-122.232907&spn=0.249843,0.480309&z=12&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.732319,-122.35656&hyaw=167.6094784280999

http://www.google.com/mapmaker?qmo=re&iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=Z8_YAZXTVkSNX0E6FP&ll=47.70312,-122.232907&spn=0.249993,0.480309&z=12&lyt=large_map_v3&hyaw=167.6094784280999

http://www.google.com/mapmaker?qmo=re&iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=Z8_YAZXhHdvVqzI3Xp&ll=47.734351,-122.232907&spn=0.249843,0.480309&z=12&lyt=large_map_v3&hll=47.755406,-122.321403&hyaw=87.41859298834395

http://www.google.com/mapmaker?qmo=re&iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=Z8_YAZXTVkSNX0E6FP&ll=47.703143,-122.232907&spn=0.249992,0.480309&z=12&lyt=large_map_v3&hyaw=336.08180575642604

http://www.google.com/mapmaker?qmo=re&iwloc=0_0&fmi=0_0&gw=55&editids=Z8_YAZXVblwFFXXDDd&ll=47.625095,-122.234167&spn=0.250366,0.480309&z=12&lyt=large_map_v3&hyaw=336.08180575642604
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 3/2/14 5:32 PM
On Sunday, 2 March 2014 17:18:19 UTC-8, LocksmithVigilante wrote:
Timing is everything!  Only several years later...

Phone verification was actually a fairly new thing.  This is a return to how it was last year.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers James Stew 3/2/14 7:53 PM
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 3/13/14 9:06 PM
They may not be happy with the ease of adding stuff to google maps, but i don't think their feathers are that ruffled.  They are still number one on Adwords.  In fact they have all three top places on a Google search at my location due to the help of Adwords, meaning they still have guaranteed $200 tickets from the gullible.  They still aren't getting investigated or getting caught in sting operations here.  I think the scammers are just peachy!  If Google actually removed paulslocksmith.com, fidelitylocksmith.com, hawklocksmith.com, recommendedlocksmith.com, 24locksmithing.com, pisecuritysolutions.com etc and all other fronts for scammers from Adwords then they might start hurting for money and start investigating other services to scam people on, like chimney sweeping and plumbing.  Right now they don't have to get their hands too dirty.  This is just a flesh wound for them, they are still getting plenty of money.  Don't forget, they also have Google Local ads all over google maps. 
Eventually Google's failure to meet this problem head on will have trained everybody to use adblockers and they will have to learn how to deliver meaningful search results to their users again, but until that time suckers will keep calling scammers and scammers will keep making more money than locksmiths and continue being able to afford exorbitant advertising budgets.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Maki Badfox 3/13/14 9:27 PM
How do you know that those websites are involved with Locksmith spam? They all look like unique websites that were configured very differently.
(unknown) 3/13/14 9:35 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 3/13/14 9:43 PM
Because they have the same list of fake locksmiths on them
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Maki Badfox 3/13/14 10:10 PM
Those links can be reported to the Google Webspam team directly if it can be demonstrated that they're doing nasty things.

Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 3/13/14 10:23 PM
The websites have phone numbers on them.  So do the AdWords.  When you call these numbers it goes to a call center, the same call centers (and this is important here) that you get when you call the phone numbers listed on MM spam listings...  When they send a guy out to help you, he will employ bait and switch techniques and charge the times more than a locksmith with a reputation to protect.  With that money he will pay some Lady in the Philippines to make fake Google plus profiles to give fake reviews for fake locksmith companies.  He will pay Google for AdWords and Google local ads, bidding higher than real locksmiths can afford to.  He will pay the el ad group to make more joomla cookie cutter websites that link to each other for maximum seo results.  And he will make more fake locksmith listings on Google maps, waiting for the Google confirmation letters to come rolling in to derelict houses around his neighborhood.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Maki Badfox 3/13/14 11:34 PM
I've filed appropriate webspam reports against all of them referencing the fact that none of them appear to be licensed, per http://bls.dor.wa.gov/LicenseSearch/
(unknown) 3/14/14 12:44 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Maki Badfox 3/14/14 12:51 AM
The only search term I used was "Locksmith". Those results should have been returned, but they weren't.

Oh well - I'll just open up those webspam tickets and amend them with this new information... yep.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Spam Terminator 3/14/14 6:02 AM
Look at these listings i am attaching, all are the same, i just wanted to show a few examples, but there are many more, all around the US.
They all are the same:
All have Locksmith+City name+Angieslist.com (as website)+"Located" in the city center+some BS gmail account.

Baltimore:

Columbia MD:

Minneapolis:

FL:


(unknown) 3/15/14 12:42 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 3/15/14 1:37 PM
if spammers notice you removing their listings, they will turn around and report YOU as a spammer!  You have to post about it here and send an email to mapmake...@gmail.com and ask them to reinstate you.  It has happened to me numerous times.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 3/15/14 1:38 PM
actually, never mind.  It failed to delete for me too.  Something else is amiss!
(unknown) 3/15/14 1:41 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 3/15/14 1:48 PM
It will just be this one item that is corrupt.  Use Report This.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers W12 engine 3/16/14 4:08 AM
I am sorry, the reporting mail id posted above is incorrect. I am copy-pasting the entire text for reporting such cases : 


Suspension or blocking of Users

Users found moderating User Submission, more than twice, in a malicious manner or in a manner that in the sole discretion of Google appears to be with a view to post inaccurate information or in a manner that results in spam, or for giving abusive comments while moderating, shall be barred /disabled from moderating User Submissions.

Any User that has been blocked shall have an opportunity of applying to Google for the restoration of his account by sending an email toreportabus...@google.com stating appropriate reasons why his termination is not justified. The decision of Google in this regard shall be final and binding.


Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Gary D. 3/16/14 6:16 PM
Got the same problem, 
Trying to delete spam (100% confirmed spam) and got the "Auto Deny"
Please take a look at these:
My 100% is now 99% approved in my user info. Sad.
Wrote about it to "Lori" and to the "Report Abuse" email address.
You Guys are more then welcome to check it out, and get "Auto Deny" as well.

Auto Deny:

Didnt even try, It would be "Auto Deny" anyway.
(unknown) 3/16/14 6:18 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Maki Badfox 3/16/14 7:46 PM
I just got an auto-deny as well (http://goo.gl/jTNRkU). But it only happened for one of the features I tried to delete. Most of the ones I deleted were sent into review, and one was even auto-approved.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Gary D. 3/17/14 6:03 AM
Same problem this morning,
Tried to delete a spam listing in a different industry (Florist) and it went into "Pending"
Went back to "Locksmith" and got the "Auto Deny" again

Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Lori Savageau 3/17/14 11:07 AM
Hey folks,

I've noticed that all mappers attempting to delete locksmith spam have been getting auto-denied as a side-effect of a mass-sweep, internally, to remove this latest flux of locksmith spam. That said, I welcome you to ping me all links to reported spam so I can escalate internally and avoid any more dings on your accounts. 

I appreciate your diligence and patience, and will do my best to keep you updated on the ongoing situation/problem.

Thanks,
Lori

MM Community Manager 
(unknown) 3/17/14 1:21 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Micro741 3/17/14 2:08 PM
I keep reporting these fake locksmiths as spam but nothing really happens. Am I wasting my time?

http://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=30&q=philadelphia+locksmith&ll=26.367725,-80.132561&spn=0.001026,0.001888&qmo=&start=10

The way I do it is going to mapmaker, searching for locksmith and report the spam listings.
Is there a better way?
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers M.Jones (RL-USA) 3/17/14 6:25 PM
Lori -

I too have been doing the due diligence of trying to report locksmith spam for removal (I know that I typically can't edit the locksmith category since it's locked, so I don't even try). Several weeks ago I spent a few hours each day over several days looking at locksmiths, and querying the Texas Department of Public Safety licensing database (Texas is one of a few states that requires all locksmiths be licensed) by name and by address. I filed spam reports on each that was not found in the database. I looked back today and the area I worked through of Dallas/Fort Worth has the same number of Locksmiths today as they did before I started (this is browsing the "Locksmith" category):

The area outlined above roughly represents the area I have validated. At the same time, many of the ones that I reported still exist, but the report is no longer visible on the history tab (keep in mind, in the area I worked, there were less than 20 actual licensed locksmiths)

At the same time, there are many of these listings that now return the following error if I click on them:

There were many that had this problem when I did my first pass, and now that number seems to have only doubled. If by reporting it is not the best way of getting these "off the map" then please let me know what I should be doing instead.
(unknown) 3/17/14 6:57 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 3/17/14 8:35 PM
Thank you, Lori,

I'm now locked out of editing anything and it seems pointless to attempt to
review.  There was no previous notice that I saw on either this or the
Power Mapper Forum that this would occur if I continued to report
spam/abuse.

I have truly enjoyed my thousand days here and will miss both the
camaraderie and the satisfaction in both editing and reviewing.

As I understand your earlier statement, we are to send all future possible
spam edits to you.  Regrettably we'll have to absorb any damage that we've
already received as the result of reporting spam.

Thanks again. The time that I've spent here has been a pleasure.

(unknown) 3/17/14 10:29 PM <This message has been deleted.>
(unknown) 3/17/14 10:33 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Maki Badfox 3/18/14 3:15 AM
Sounds like the best solution to this issue might be to, after fixing the auto denying problem itself, just wipe all of the denials in Map Maker from whenever this nasty auto denying business started.
(unknown) 3/18/14 5:40 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers keith.a 3/18/14 6:16 AM
Gary D. - I am sure it was unintentional, but I think Mara would prefer to be referred to with "woman / her" :)
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Gary D. 3/18/14 7:25 AM
Loosing a great Lady like Mara is the worse that can happen to google.
Mara backed me up so many times when i was deleting spam, Her work in MM was so much more helpful then any engineer or googler.
Hope you stick around to help us with fighting spam.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Lori Savageau 3/18/14 10:14 AM
Mara - 

I've escalated your profile straight away as I've no idea why you would have been locked out of editing. While I understand your aversion to further attempts at mapping, we've hugely appreciated all that you've contributed (I believe you and I joined Map Maker right around the same time!) and I'd like to do what I can to keep you on our community team. 

In spite of what you've all seen in the product, spam-fighting is at the forefront of the Map Maker team's concerns these days and I truly hope that we will start seeing the fruits of such efforts very soon. 

In the meantime - all profiles / concerns reported here have been escalated by me directly to our spam team.

Thank you all, again and again and again,

Lori
MM Community Manager
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mofleta 3/18/14 10:26 AM
Hi Lori, 

Thank you for your involvement, here is a bit of spam around my house... The sooner this will be removed the faster we can get our jobs back. 

https://plus.google.com/106088476705862494551/about?hl=en
https://plus.google.com/116755483104198110378/about?hl=en
https://plus.google.com/117977354442609959144/about?hl=en
https://plus.google.com/101600244736176338962/about?hl=en
https://plus.google.com/117176465658109155592/about?hl=en
https://plus.google.com/112902063456432753166/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/113810830664552583331/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/108714044574831699699/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/118285255375545116634/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/103043628154683394145/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/112495724046746316423/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/110126650743530268264/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/117021449608743075663/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/103904639101341563447/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/102836707583800155700/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/107643804419369125602/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/102420083278649329463/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/108228795410613807655/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/117040493345579567331/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/114960204478385227456/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/115320116360355288419/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/102555135448018040989/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/115029487870565981030/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/118394705420672721029/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/106963197488421160336/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/114812678216261595687/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/115915265035488760203/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/111271535899455983759/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/116448135158408225414/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/117101517936628698587/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/110896821693198116763/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/109198634161563680140/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/115140419936191325747/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/106888513954494090563/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/114724689825992982375/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/109954945955607344646/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/118089238680438102682/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/113983644996118528927/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/107280925884062217662/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/103237445372881935780/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/115037161049021802633/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/106263501713439705423/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/113717885688406564683/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/107092631836446984187/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/114022118651694436195/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/107344185936156325449/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/109110469161256388793/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/102607995802856262139/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/106670705118003942452/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/107422834276570171472/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/102889693269920944208/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/109738311447721738738/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/110688454654098035018/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/116426791693773155163/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/104706391139601705204/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/102420005914074947201/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/102420005914074947201/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/103278781254850171297/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/109447977862030212615/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/109179029539623664484/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/110795386923180262635/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/114748403270735262858/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/114811253142497094756/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/111188537836703437836/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/111157112611709506482/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/109822423570555859680/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/116967042255296496637/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/102224040416225660185/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/107956105007184348941/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/104404231994955607943/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/104224122038659772766/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/114078474496072284574/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/107783206319583286824/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/110100348177926613218/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/101769616122572869108/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/114022118651694436195/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/111157112611709506482/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/107268273240178504063/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/111394925966568696888/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/113187303838983967037/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/108536512961409313085/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/101603038673253342324/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/109710898052374433630/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/102125613554278224684/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/104211565876421970817/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/100271803175131074140/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/108911802765125031986/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/114463495781052574019/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/105241304762422440772/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/116091998826253323389/about?hl=en
https://plus.google.com/102815729473123492263/about?hl=en
https://plus.google.com/116022905492517621442/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/106589680759816977472/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/116245210087379456242/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/109036836648602272848/about?gl=us&hl=en
...
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mofleta 3/18/14 10:45 AM
Hello Consciousnessbliss, 

If we can get the Denver list to 20 is will be great. But even if you ignore the local locksmiths community, Google products are hurting consumers. The spam has been a problem for almost what? 4-5 years now? When a company states "Do no evil" and knowingly helps mislead customers just because it's not a priority, that company at one point may face a class action lawsuit. Not by locksmiths, but by consumers that put their trust in this company. 

Lori, 

Is there anyway you can unlock my profile for edits as well? I've attached a screen shot from Brighton, Colorado (Where Juan - The non-existing locksmith - is ranked number 1 with 6 fake reviews, followed by few other fake locksmiths... So the entire first page is all spam. My business listed number 3 on the second page, and between my business to Juan, it's all spam (Juan included). 

Report a problem is not really working for me - I've reported this list over and over in the past 3 months but they are still on. 

I would appreciate if you guys can help unlocking my profile so I can actually delete those from MM. More spam in Commerce City, Broomfield, etc..
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 3/18/14 10:55 AM
Barry, Google is not "knowingly helping".  Google plugs holes and the spammers find other ways to post them.  The only way to complete stop it would be to not let anyone make any updates at all.  They are not responsible for someone else's malicious actions, and if fact there are laws that specifically state that fact for websites that host postings made by others, making a law suite impossible.  The law makers have recognized that we could not have our modern world of copious amounts of information always available and always updating if they did not allow for companies to just display it and not be responsible for other's purposely posting wrong data.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mofleta 3/18/14 11:09 AM
Flash, 

In the past 5 years Google invented Google glass, Android Phones etc. Priority is the key. When I say "Knowingly helping" I mean that they fully aware of the spam problem and let it continue because they've got other things to do. When the FBI came knocking on their door they sealed one loophole. How come that in 24 hours they were able to do something that has been reported 4 years now?..

Knowingly helping means that they don't really care about my business or any other small local business for that matter. If you look at the AdWords on that screenshot that I've attached you'll see that there is NOT EVEN ONE local business. The AdWords it pure spam driven product.

We cannot compete with the high bids that spammers are using to target the first place, Google does not care about delivering good product to the end user, they care more about who's paying more. So we gave up on AdWords and redirect our budget into Yelp and Facebook ads. 

The local product is all Google has left to offer to small business owners now, and with that been taken away from us - our business won't last long. The businesses that will survive will find a different niche (word to mouth, referral groups or other local website). The customers will leave Google as a search platform. But hey.. let's make a quick test. Let's assume the YOU need a locksmith. Will you use Google? Would Lori? Would any of you? And once you know it.. Would you use Google to search a Plumber? Electrician? Carpet Cleaning company? HVAC service? Moving company? Yeah... didn't think so. 


Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 3/18/14 11:29 AM
How come that in 24 hours they were able to do something that has been reported 4 years now?

It has not been reported for 4 years.  This was a new exploit, and it has been plugged.  Yes, a faster plug would have been nice, but it is not a single issue as you are trying to make it out to be.  Has spam gone away now that it has been plugged?  No, the next day they switched to different exploits.  As I already said, it is a continuous process.

And despite what you feel, the end users are not leaving.  Why?  Because despite the imperfections, it is still the best option available.  And this is also why the spammers target it.  If another service grew in popularity, then the spammers would devote resources towards spamming it also, and there would be no difference.  While we would all like to see Google do better at finding and eliminating spam, the issue in the end is the fraud artist, and what really needs to happen is that those people need to be made to face consequences.  Google is not a law enforcement agency.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mofleta 3/18/14 11:32 AM
Lets agree to disagree. 

Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mofleta 3/18/14 11:33 AM
What steps to I need to take to unlock my profile for edits or is it just a Google feature that someone need to assist me with?
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 3/18/14 11:33 AM
We are not disagreeing, we both want better spam clearing.  However, you are stating things as fact that are not correct.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 3/18/14 11:36 AM
On Tuesday, 18 March 2014 11:33:02 UTC-7, Barry Oliel wrote:
What steps to I need to take to unlock my profile for edits or is it just a Google feature that someone need to assist me with?

Please see the last two paragraphs on this page.

Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers SeattleLocksmith 3/18/14 3:54 PM
If spam listings are getting fast tracked from this forum, please remove this SAB. Our customers are calling them and getting ripped off because their name is almost exactly the same (Broadway Locksmith vs Broadway Locksmith Seattle), and then calling our shop to complain.  I guess the scammers aren't concerned with trademarks or getting the pants sued off of them.... 
I called Google Local (who must have approved this in the first place) and they couldn't get it off the map.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers SeattleLocksmith 3/18/14 3:57 PM
I like Juan's reviewers and their brevity, particularly Baskerville Rossignol!  What a mouthful that name is.  An imaginative spammer's work, to be sure.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mofleta 3/18/14 4:35 PM
lol.. yes. Juan is very famous here. You should meet his cousins Hector & Ramirez.. They have THE BEST fake Mexican restaurant around!

I got an offer to get spam listings in Colorado, the lady works from the Philippines and she dropped the price down to $10 per unit, she and her "crew" can make me 50 - 100 new listings every night. So just to get it straight... a 19 years old from the Philippines (and her crew, don't forget her crew) is responsible for your bad experience with Google product. 

I say stop hiring those overpaid expensive MIT graduates...  Clearly a 19 years old girl from across the ocean can humiliate Google's best minds.. Good thing that Google still has people like Flash to protect their name in these forums. 

The only way to kill a good idea is by poor execution.. 
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mofleta 3/18/14 5:00 PM
Oh... and if you check Gina & Sons and Alpha Key Locksmith you'll see that they are at the exact same address... what a small world :)
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Maki Badfox 3/18/14 6:00 PM
If there are indeed only 20 real locksmiths in Denver CO (versus the hundreds listed in Maps), the logical thing to do seems like it would be to just perform an automated deletion of POIs not matching the information of the businesses "known" to be correct. Filter them by business address, name, and phone. All the remaining ones can be manually vetted by a small task force.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mofleta 3/18/14 6:11 PM
There are about 60. 20 of them does not have a place on the map because spammers kept reporting them and they finally gave up.
But yes, I agree - We can star the local ones and have Google remove the rest. I just don't think it's possible with the way the system is set up right now. 
(unknown) 3/18/14 6:18 PM <This message has been deleted.>
(unknown) 3/18/14 6:57 PM <This message has been deleted.>
(unknown) 3/18/14 7:02 PM <This message has been deleted.>
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mofleta 3/18/14 9:19 PM
And I will say this again. 

Google has OCR program. They tried to scan all the books in the world. They can use this program to have all local businesses upload state approved documents and if there is an issue (forgery - I hoped I spelled it right) it a big no no that will involve more than a state AG.. 

A yes, they SHOULD hold more moderation ALL categories that are being changed from parking lots to locksmiths or from butcher shop to garage door. There is so much that they can do and it's actually takes very little effort. 

So why won't they give it priority?

And I asked before and I will ask again. Will ANY of you is going to search Google for a local service related business? Would Google employees do? 
(unknown) 3/18/14 11:51 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Maki Badfox 3/25/14 12:30 AM
Lori,

I messaged you these POIs, but I don't know if you got them. The following are (mostly) spam precursors that were denied but soon after changed by an automated system or a GR.

The sheer volume of the denials has rendered my account almost completely unusable. Even simple things like editing enclosed traffic areas are being held for review. Making a new account and building up new trust would be faster than the about 2,000-4,000 accepted edits I would have to make to counteract all of these denials (99-199 for every denial, 99/100 = 0.99), but this is disallowed, so I really don't know what to do. I'm effectively locked out, and will be for a very long time unless something can be done.


Thanks,
- Levi
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers SeattleLocksmith 3/26/14 9:06 AM
The second wave of locksmith spam has come, now they are switching to snail mail to make their spam.  A lot of them are choosing SAB's, but are deleting their plus page or something so that they can't be reported.  this guy's plus page doesn't have a report a problem link on it, don't know if it is just really new or if the spammers figured out how to keep that link off their plus page.  Anyway, following is a list of seattle locksmith spam.  I've called these listings and they all can't name their business name, or they mutter 24/7 locksmith so we know they are fake.
https://plus.google.com/116023654744336347161/about?gl=us&hl=en - I have been reporting this one for about a month with no results.  Please remove it.  It is right next to a legitimate locksmith called Allstar Lock and Safe.  


https://plus.google.com/110913106179986718610/about?gl=us&hl=en - It is pretty clear that SoDo lock and key isn't even from Seattle since they don't know where south of the dome is on the map.  They are five miles north of the dome!  Guess when you are in the Philippines it all looks close enough from over there.

https://plus.google.com/114631596786687586462/about?gl=us&hl=en - "Broadway Locksmith Seattle" is impersonating the actual "Broadway Locksmith" a scant five blocks to the south.  I am sure they are only using their lazy formula of %"street name" %locksmith to come up with their business names and accidentally infringed on a trademarked name but they need to get spanked all the same.  

https://plus.google.com/+Seattleslocksmiths28/about?gl=us&hl=en - great video spammers, I am sure customers want to hire people adding graffiti of their business name under cover of darkness to concrete walls.  A lot of people will call that number!

I reported this on March 1st, not sure why it is taking so long to remove it.  It is pretty obviously spam.

These guys might be real or they might not, but their business address is an apartment building with multiple suites and a locked front door.  They aren't advertised on the call box or on the door, and the door is locked which is against Google Places for Business policy so it is spam.

https://plus.google.com/102218321785297964735/about?gl=us&hl=en is intentionally impersonating the real Ravenna Locksmith at ravennalocksmith.com.


I reported this on March 3rd, it is still going strong and funneling the credulous into the claws of scammers.



(unknown) 3/26/14 11:41 AM <This message has been deleted.>
(unknown) 3/28/14 10:40 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers AEGe 3/30/14 10:18 PM
Fake locksmith listings for sale on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/david.gen.75
(unknown) 3/30/14 10:53 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers bushurt 3/31/14 1:29 AM
all ar
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers bushurt 3/31/14 1:31 AM
add allyear send seach
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mofleta 3/31/14 8:43 AM
And in the meanwhile.. 730 "locksmiths" 730 Strangers with a copy of your house key. That's 130 new ones since this weekend.. 
However, for them to go to jail you need someone that will go after them. I don't think the authorities care. Don't think that Google cares. Maybe after they will sell these fake listings to a serial-killer/ rapist and someones wife or daughter will get slaughtered someone will care enough to do something about it. 


Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mofleta 3/31/14 11:22 AM
I'm sorry. 740. In the past 2 hours 10 more locksmiths picked Google verification process.. 
Google! Let us upload state documents (Public records anyway) to ensure local is really local.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers AEGe 3/31/14 11:41 AM
We say it all. Do it all. Do you really think that Google will do anything in 2014? How about 2015? Really? Why haven't they done anything in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013? Well, at least the word on the street is that they are fighting the spam.. Just not the locksmith spam... "It's all about the money"
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mofleta 3/31/14 11:59 AM
Heyyy... I (741) LOVE (742) This (744) Song (745). 

746 between the time that you posted to my response. 

Google are waiting for a class-action lawsuit under the consumer protection act. The US Attorney general will have to take action once consumer complaints pile on his desk. So it's not when Google will take action (2014, 2015, 2016..) it's When someone will make them fight spam. 

Or maybe.. maybe that's the way they designed it.. It's like when my dad couldn't figure out facebook.. it's another generation. Same here.. We are dinosaurs and this is the new world - THIS IS HOW YOU ADVERTISE TODAY. We just need to adjust.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mofleta 3/31/14 12:18 PM
750... yeyyyyyyyyyyy. Maybe they'll get 1,000 by tonight! 
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mofleta 3/31/14 12:33 PM
753

Google is helpless against the spammers.

W H Y ?

I personally have been reported on these forums over a year now. Over a year. That's a year to patch a product. Can't believe this company is really in charge of the search results online.. 
No wonder we couldn't find Bin Laden for so long... 
(unknown) 3/31/14 2:00 PM <This message has been deleted.>
(unknown) 3/31/14 2:48 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mara Winslow 3/31/14 3:32 PM
(unknown) 3/31/14 7:02 PM <This message has been deleted.>
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 4/1/14 10:47 AM
Truth.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers AEGe 4/1/14 11:03 AM
I am so “happy” this morning, after Google closed the phone verification! We assume that new fake, spam, crooks, thieves and scammers call center locksmith companies... will stop for a bit. But guess what?? No they didn’t! They just added about 300 new listings in the Denver area. I cannot imagine what's happening around the nation. So I find myself running my locksmith business with my 1 listing in Google Maps VS about 700 fake ones. Thank you Google for doing everything you can do. Have a great day!!

But lets see why Google closed the phone verification. We know it’s because the secret services and the Media news story… Is it what we need to do in order to get Google’s attention to help us fight the spam?

(unknown) 4/1/14 12:27 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mofleta 4/1/14 3:04 PM
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers SeattleLocksmith 4/1/14 3:28 PM
To punctuate consciousnessbliss's complaints about the pointlessness of using "report a problem", I have been trying to report this listing since March 21st.  Each time I report it, a few changes are made by Google and I have to report it again.  A Google Reviewer named Nimesha even marked it as deleted.  
I think the spammers figured out how to get their listings out of the queue for being reviewed by making small changes to their listing.  After they do so, the listing never seems to get reviewed and I have to report them again.
TL:DR version: Google, please fix your sh*%!
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mofleta 4/2/14 7:39 PM
I don't mean to offense anyone.. but I support SeattleLocksmith - Here is my not working "Report A Problem" list.. Please hurry up...

https://plus.google.com/112375704130639353570/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/117402819813690998152/about?gl=us&hl=en
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https://plus.google.com/108228795410613807655/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/104264368937730548848/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/103389515474512855194/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/111394925966568696888/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/106888513954494090563/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/102125613554278224684/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/107280925884062217662/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/106888513954494090563/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/100547695414895295731/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/106915680526441933680/about?gl=us&hl=en
https://plus.google.com/109736689847490254266/about?gl=us&hl=en
...
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 4/2/14 7:47 PM
This is Map Maker, Google+ links are not handled here.  In addition, I randomly clicked on some of your links and the first three I choose were all already shut down; so it would appear you are incorrect and Report a Problem does work.  Please  check lists before posting them, and please provide Map Maker links to edits that you have made.  However, since it seems that Report a Problem is working, I suggest you continue with that pathway.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers W12 engine 4/2/14 11:04 PM
You might want to fill in the spreadsheet link given on this post - https://productforums.google.com/d/msg/map-maker/881GqfWYjRw/pEa9L_ksPVkJ
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mofleta 4/3/14 12:30 AM
Done. 
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mofleta 4/3/14 12:32 AM
Some of them are trying to look legit using real local locksmiths names. With any doubt please contact me I'll prove that the ones that I've listed are spam, or you can Google the business name and see that the phone numbers/address do not match. 

A copy of this list was forwarded to the state AG. Enough is enough.
(unknown) 4/9/14 11:06 AM <This message has been deleted.>
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 4/15/14 6:20 PM
Google, why is this still up?  Every time I report this, I think "This will be the last time."  Then I go back and see, "Edit Summary : 4 changes were made by Google".  I have now reported this 7 times, it's been up since March 26th, a GLE has marked it for deletion, and it is still there.  I hope Google execs can sleep at night knowing that they are aiding and/or abetting scammers to rip off people just like their own mothers, leaving this garbage up on Google Maps despite our repeated efforts to remove it not to mention complicity in Adwords scamming.  I hope that "Google Glass" makes you dopes a lot of money because everybody who gets ripped off will tell their friends and family and your other services are going to suffer unless you fix this.  I will do everything I can to let people who got ripped off know that Google could have prevented their problems.

Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 4/15/14 6:29 PM
That is a hidden address SAB.  You cannot remove those from Map Maker, even when they accidentally show there.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 4/15/14 6:33 PM
In addition, it appears your only reason provided for removing it is the fact that you thought it's address was showing.  Since it is not showing, all those reports you made would be ignored.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 4/15/14 6:39 PM
There is also this one, "Adam's Car Key & Locksmith Master", up there since March 21st.  Reported four times before today.  Obvious spam, obvious keyword stuffing, obvious garbage.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 4/15/14 6:40 PM
Doesn't look hidden to me.  2311 North 38th Street is the address.  There isn't any locksmith there.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 4/15/14 7:06 PM
You cannot look at back end tools to judge what the public is seeing.  We have always been able to see the addresses of hidden address SABs when looking in Map Maker, that is why they started hiding them in Map Maker.  You have simply found two that are accidentally showing in Map Maker, but their addresses are properly hidden and thus they are not to be deleted for being SABs.

Whenever you are spam fighting, you need to completely analyze a listing before marking it for deletion.  I realize that you don't know all the ins and outs of the system, feel free to ask questions when your unsure.
(unknown) 4/15/14 7:14 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 4/15/14 7:17 PM
Flash, I appreciate your desire for due process but there is no question this is a spam listing.  Just called them.  They  hesitated when asked their business name, and then said "24/7 locksmith services".  They are scammers through and through.  When spam is reported, Google should investigate it.  If it is too much work for Google, they should work with local governments for address confirmation or they are going to get burned, and I will be fanning those flames unless they make an effort.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 4/15/14 7:35 PM
I never doubted that this was a spam listing.  I've been fighting spam a lot longer than you and can easily recognize it.  My point is that if you aren't following processes, you will get nowhere.

When spam is reported, Google should investigate it

You have reported that this should be deleted as there is a business showing when there is no visible business at that location.  That is not considered spam, it is just an unmappable feature, they must instead hide their address via Places.  A quick investigation shows that they have hidden their address, the reason you provided is not a reason to delete the feature.  This is how a review works, each of the thousands of features edited each day does not then get a 2 hour look over from every angle, especially when the initial edit/request was wrong. 

they should work with local governments for address confirmation or they are going to get burned,

I was able to confirm both those addresses exist in seconds via Street View, there is no need to verify them otherwise.

I think you are trying to say that they should confirm the legitimacy of the business with the government, but your state has no licensing requirements for locksmiths, nor do they require that everyone get a business license, nor do they register every DBA.

You seem to think that someone spending 10 seconds saying "remove this from the map just because I say so" should mean that the item gets removed right away.  If that was the case then your own listing would be subject to the same rules.  Spam fighting is not as easy as you want it to be.  It could be easier, but even if we saw some of the improvements we've suggested it would still mean that you need to completely analyze a listing before marking it for deletion.  If you are not doing so and not then providing reasons within the guidelines for a items removal, then by definition your own work becomes spam.  Deletions are taken very seriously in Map Maker, as they should be.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 4/15/14 9:05 PM
This is exactly my point though, you can easily recognize this as spam, and so can I.  If I flag it, then Google employees ought to be even better at it since this is their job.  Even if I flagged it for a technically incorrect reason, it is still obvious spam.  Google should have figured this out when they first put this listing on the map.  They should suspect it when somebody repeatedly reports it as spam. 
Also, Washington State requires anybody doing business to have a business license.  There is a Reliable Locksmith listed in Seattle.  However, the person answering the phone for this listing is not answering the phone as this, so I don't know how Google failed to recognize this is spam in the first place.  If you can figure it out in ten seconds, it shouldn't take Google two hours.  It should take them 30 seconds.
While we are on the subject, what is your recommendation for removing SAB's?  Report a Problem doesn't seem to work.  The spreadsheet DEFINITELY doesn't work. 
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 4/15/14 9:43 PM
Your expectations are unrealistic, you are seeking spam and finding it. A reviewer is reviewing; they are not seeking spam and do not spend the time on each of the hundreds of edits they do each day to wonder if it is spam and whether they should look for the signs.  When you have gone out of your way to seek spam, you should not expect that everyone else will see it when they are looking a things with a different purpose in mind.

A reviewer is tasked with reviewing at the time they are looking at your edits.  To make all reviews equal, there is a set process that is followed. 

And they may recognize some of this as possible spam, but again, they cannot spend the time checking every edit.  You feel they should be able to delete it right away because you are hitting the delete switch within a few seconds; but again you are not doing things correctly when you do that.  Deletions need to be taken a lot more seriously, and the time needed to spend investigating suspected spam is not something allotted to someone tasked with a different job at the time.

Along a similar vein, employees will be tasked with taking down spam.  When they do, they don't spend time reviewing edits nor fixing up POIs; if they did they wouldn't get their assigned tasks done.

There is no way to remove SABs that we know of here.  You should be addressing that over at the Places forum; they handle SABs with hidden addresses and they were the ones that choose to disable editing and reporting them. 
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Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Mofleta 4/19/14 8:32 PM
Since we started reporting... the numbers increased in Denver form the 600 to 1,100 tonight... so.. just saying. 
We've added the spam to Google spreadsheet, reported to the state AG, to the Department of Revenue and nothing is being done, or not being done fast enough. 

Can someone from Google step forward and explain WHY is it taking so long?
It's frustrating in so many different levels. 
(unknown) 4/23/14 6:55 PM <This message has been deleted.>
(unknown) 4/28/14 11:16 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 6/18/14 8:16 PM
New idea for Google and it's spam-fighting algorithm: when more than five listings appear on the same day within one or two square miles for a highly spammed category, have somebody review them manually.  There are now all kinds of spam all around Seattle.  It has all been reported.  Google has done nothing to remove it.  I have started calling property owners at the addresses the spammers are using to let them know that I have reported the problem to Google over a week ago with no change.  To start, here is a list of spam listings added on June 3rd which are all still up:
A2A Lockouts Service Jun/03/2014 5520 East Green Lake Way North, Seattle, WA 98103, USA
Fremont Locksmith Guys Jun/03/2014 4415 Stone Way North, Seattle, WA 98103, USA

Make a car key in Fremont Jun/03/2014 2510 North 45th Street, Seattle, WA 98103, USA

Ethan’s Lock Change & Rekey Service Jun/03/2014 109 North 49th Street, Seattle, WA 98103, USA

Phinney Ridge Car Key Guys Jun/03/2014 5413 6th Avenue Northwest, Seattle, WA 98107, USA
Century Car Key & Automotive Service Jun/03/2014 3525 Stone Way North, Seattle, WA 98103, USA

Jackson’s Installation and Repair Locks Co Jun/03/2014 4451 14th Avenue Northwest, Seattle, WA 98107, USA

I have documented the actual businesses at these addresses, and provided phone numbers.  Ethan's Lock Change is sharing the address of a 90 year old man.



Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 6/18/14 8:24 PM
While on the subject of Google not taking action on spam, I have been reporting the exact same listing for months.  I have provided the phone number of the property owner at the listed address for the listing.  I have provided reasons why it does not meet the TOS for Google Places.  It is still there.  I saw that Mark Baldino is taking Google to court for taking money from scammers, is Google not going to at least zip its pants while court is in session?  There is spam everywhere!  CT Locksmith's address is 12508 Lake City Way Northeast, Seattle, WA which is the same address as City North Apartments
Google, go ahead and call them!  Their phone number is (206) 466-1576.  At that address there is a locked front door with no locksmith advertising.  Not sure why Google did not remove this six months ago when I first started reporting it as locksmith spam. 
Google, you may as well give up on user submissions for Google Maps if you can't stay on top of this.  I am calling at least ten people a day telling them about how people are using their address for fraud on Google Maps and how Google can't figure out how to do anything about it.  Figure it out! 206-466-1576466466
ph. 206-466-1576
fax 206-306-0469
City North
12508 Lake City Way, NE 
Seattle, WA  98125

ph. 206-466-1576
fax 206-306-0469
Hours
Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Thursday
Friday

Saturday
Sunday
Make City North your home today!
8 AM - 5 PM
8 AM - 5 PM
8 AM - 5 PM
8 AM - 5 PM
8 AM - 5 PM

Call for Appointment 
Closed
12508 Lake City Way, NE 
Seattle, WA  98125

ph. 206-466-1576
fax 206-306-0469
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 6/18/14 8:29 PM
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers True Locksmith 6/18/14 8:48 PM
Why won't you take it with the spammers?


& that last guy posted an ad he is recruiting people to come work here..


The authorities don't seem to care, Google don't care.. so, what next?





ask them why are they doing it
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 6/18/14 8:51 PM
I see your multiple reports on that POI, but only going back as far as June 1 using the Map Maker reporting.  In any case, your reports seem to be centred on the fact that his is an apartment with a locked door, and can't possibly have businesses in it.

If you'll look, there is shops on the ground level, a row of windows along the second level, and then the apartments start on the third level.  A quick check of Seattle's business database shows at least 5 different businesses on the 2nd level, one at 12508 Lake City Way NE #220, one at 12508 Lake City Way NE #230, etc.  It's hard to tell if there's more; Seattle's search function has always been poor.

My point; this likely doesn't exist, but you've provided nothing to Google to prove that it doesn't.  What you have said; that there is apartments only at this address, is easily disproved.  I've pointed out to you before that just stating that something is spam is not enough to get it deleted, and this is the same case.  Do you want it to be that just anyone can get your business deleted tomorrow by saying it's spam but not providing any evidence?
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers True Locksmith 6/18/14 9:02 PM
Hi Flash, 

You've seen my personal spam file (Denver) - There are more than 500 fake listings there that has been reported to Google spam spreadsheet and are still active. In the past 2 weeks only we've jumped from 360 to almost 800... It's not about one specific listing that is live for 6 months, it's the system that keeps ignoring small businesses the asking us to buy ads..

Google needs to take a stand. Pretending to fight spam is not really the same as actually fighting it :\

Check these fb profiles... Do you really want to tell me that bunch of kids, 24 - 28 years old are capable to beat Google in their own field? Makes you wonder if all of our information is really protected, huh? These kids beat Google in no time.. now imagine what will the Chinese will be doing doing with your credit card information 3 years from now.. 
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 6/18/14 9:29 PM
I have provided plenty of proof.  The listing doesn't offer any room or suite number.  Only the address is offered, and there IS only one door for this address.  That door is locked.  There is no locksmith listed on the call box.  Even if there were, Google Places requires an open door to the public for customers.  Calling this property management company will prove that.  All of these fake listings are breaking one rule: you must have a door open to the public at all times you advertise yourself open.  My business listing was closed quickly because I made this mistake.  Why doesn't Google treat the fakes the same way?  Perhaps because their pockets are being lined by the money made from scamming the American Public?  Or is it an inability to design algorithms properly?  Whatever the cause, this listing is in obvious violation of Google Places TOS and I have provided Google with this information for a long time. The details don't show it but I have been reporting CT Locksmith for months.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers AEGe 6/18/14 9:44 PM
I think it's a waste of time to write a single word here about locksmith spammers.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers True Locksmith 6/18/14 9:48 PM
Than you just wasted your time 15 times.. 
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 6/18/14 11:32 PM
I have provided plenty of proof.  The listing doesn't offer any room or suite number.

Neither do half the listings on Map Maker. When I edit the average shopping mall I probably have to find out and add the suite numbers to 80% or more of the stores within.  Incompleteness is not a reason for deletion.  It is also not a reason you provided in your reports.
 
Only the address is offered, and there IS only one door for this address.  That door is locked.

So?  I found a law office, a church administration office and a 3D Computer Animation company all in there.  If I can buzz in there to visit those businesses, I can buzz in to visit a locksmith.
 
There is no locksmith listed on the call box.

How do you know?  Where in the information you provided in the issue reports did you tell them how you know?
 
Even if there were, Google Places requires an open door to the public for customers.

No, they do not.  They just require that the customers be able to access the business.  The biggest jeweler in my city is 2 doors down from me; you have to buzz through two doors like an air lock for security reasons.  That doesn't disqualify them.
 
Calling this property management company will prove that. 

That is not something that Google is going to research and do, and no one has ever implied to you that they will.  It is also not a reason.
 
All of these fake listings are breaking one rule: you must have a door open to the public at all times you advertise yourself open.

Again, there is no such rule.  Being able to access the business is the rule.  A simple buzz into the building is not a reason to disqualify all the businesses on the second floor.
 
My business listing was closed quickly because I made this mistake. 

You would have been shut down for not have a storefront.  That is different.
 
In summary, no, you did not provide plenty of proof, in fact you provided none at all. None of what you just said is enough to delete a business, and most of it was not in your issue reports.  Your standards of proof do not meet the ones we use for Map Maker.  I have explained this to you before; removing a business is a serious matter and any mapper must present clear reasons.  You continually point at things and yell "delete that, I demand that you delete that" with no proper reasoning nor evidence.  You want Google to take this more seriously, but you don't do so yourself.  There needs to be clear reasons for deleting a business.  Because you say so is not enough.  Whether they be spam fighters or regular mappers, the rest of the people using Map Maker understand and provide the evidence that follows the guidelines and provides the proof needed.  You're never going to have much success until you do so yourself.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers thirdandbroad 6/19/14 10:32 AM
Well then, spammers, take note!  You need not worry about your listings being removed anymore.  Simply pick the locked door of a shared building as your fake address. Then, even when people call you out for not having a presence at your listed address, Google will turn a blind eye and Flash will defend you on these forums.  Even when people physically go to your fake address to confirm, your spam listings are safe.  Your spam is basically un-deletable using this weird trick! 
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 6/19/14 10:35 AM
You have completely missed the point.  This is not a trick to keep spam on the map, and I have never defended it.  The entire point is that he was providing absolutely zero reasons for it to be removed, and then complaining when it wasn't removed.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 6/19/14 10:55 AM
Here is the sort of edit that does contain evidence and thus provides reasons for the reviewer to consider approving a deletion:

I have visited this site, the street door requires buzzing the business or residence for entry.  I could not find this business in the list, see a picture of the buzz code list at http://photoURL.  I contacted the building management, XYZ Corp @ 208-123-4567 to find out the buzz code, they said there is no locksmith in the building.  A search of the Washington State corporate registry showed there is no company using this name as the primary name nor the DBA name, and no locksmith registered at this address.

That's just an example, I haven't done the research, and so to provide that you would actually need to do research first and adjust as necessary to provide the facts.  But that's what reviewers are seeking; first hand knowledge with an explanation of how it is known and further evidence beyond that knowledge that the business is not appropriate.

Even then, this is Places claimed; they control it, not Map Maker.  If the above was attempted and it didn't work, then it's time to use "I Object" but also politely ask for help in the Places forum.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers thirdandbroad 6/19/14 10:58 AM
Where did you find this law office and 3d animation company etc?  I can't find it them.  It appears to be an entirely residential address.  It doesn't look like businesses are desired tenants looking at the website of city north apartments.  The doors to either side of city north apartments are different addresses.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 6/19/14 11:28 AM
Multiple sources, including good old Google Search.  That's all that was really needed, when you find a bunch of businesses at the address and rather than being dispersed throughout the floors (home based) they are all on the second floor, that tells me the second floor is for businesses.  A check of the Street View shows me the second floor is not residential, so that would have been enough for me as a reviewer to have to deny an edit that gave the sole reasoning as "There are no businesses here, only apartments".

As for other sources, here's just one, sorry that it's not longer but Seattle's business license search only shows three at once.  It's also a really crappy search engine, so not being able to find a business on it is not proof at all.

You can also look this up on USPS's zip code search, where it will tell you that 301 through 619 are apartments, but 200 through 240 are suites.

I also found about 5 other references.  If I can find the stuff that fast, so can other reviewers who will then discount the claim that it needs to be deleted because there are no businesses.
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 6/19/14 12:15 PM
Thank you Flash, I will include these search tools in my campaign.  I have been to this address but didn't photograph the call box, I understand that Google can't simply take my word for it that there is no locksmith there.  Not sure how a picture of the call box will be evidence since it could be a picture of any call box, but if you think that will help I will take a picture of the call box.  The only difference between me and these guys (besides that they are scam artists) is that I actually have a mailbox at my former listing.  These guys don't have any presence whatsoever at this address, though after reading about the bedbug problems this building is having I kind of wish they were occupying one of those suites.
The other issue of many many new listings in a contested category appearing on the same day in the same two square miles has not yet been addressed though: what do you as Google's defender say about this?
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers LocksmithVigilante 6/28/14 8:26 PM
Ok Flash, I went back to this building and not only have I taken pictures of the front door, the call box etc but I also have a picture of the actual apartment door designated CT Locksmith headquarters on the department of licensing entry for CT Locksmith.  Nowhere does it say anything about a locksmith.  I reported these pictures on mapmaker.  What further suggestions do you have for showing google that CT Locksmith does not meet Google Local criteria? 
Bonus picture is of a lock inside this apartment building which appears to show activity by CT Locksmith.
http://imgur.com/sKVCpu5
 http://imgur.com/FdaHwcQ
 http://imgur.com/otJZA4h
 http://imgur.com/dXNPZ7U
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers C.W.Chadderson 7/11/14 12:10 PM
Locksmith spam isn't being removed even when we take a picture of the business with the address and furnish evidence using business licenses that there is no locksmith at or near the address.  What is going on?  From June 23rd, three weeks ago:
"This is locksmith spam. This is the address of the WA state DSHS office. See this picture I took when I went there to confirm in person that there was no locksmith here: http://goo.gl/5FRlmG Thesecurity guard there confirmed that there is no locksmith at this address."  
Also, "Additionally there is no locksmith with a business license by this name in WA state according to bls.dor.wa.gov, though there is a five star locksmith in Bellevue, WA. That is 10 miles away however."
I can see that this has been reviewed.  What more information does Google need?  I am beginning to wonder if anything short of a written confession by spammers will get spam removed from Google Maps.  Maybe the spam removal team is on summer break?
Re: New Locksmith Spammer Has Higher Trust Rating Than Experienced, Longtime Mappers Flash (RL) 7/11/14 12:28 PM
I can see that this has been reviewed.

No, you cannot. 
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