It's real simple since for the most part I'm retired and have more
time than most here in this thread. I've read virtually all of the
1000+ or so post. The one general theme is those who write many e-mails
have lost simple uncomplicated functionality. Most seem to call
themselves small at home business users. The new compose creates issues of e-mails going out
1. to the wrong person
2. not formatted correctly
3. increase in effort to compose and then send the e-mail.
4. Waste of a high volume e-mailer time who does nothing but correspond all day bye-mail ... not text.
And that is the key for the hundredth time. What Google has created is better suited for simple text like e-mails. The new compose can be used if all that there is that is a factual and real statement ... but more errors will be made by the originator of the e-mail than ever before.
We all make mistakes from time to time. I have sent out e-mails and said ... whoa ...
"Did I do that?!"
This new compose no matter how well one learns it's functionality will
lead to more of those "Whoops bad/stupid" e-mails. You can put lipstick on the pig but it's still a pig! ... some choose to live with the ugly pig ... many
here will but at what expense does Google do this?
I don't believe they/Google (not you included, I hope) cares.
Why? this is not my first bad experience with a Google product. And again here is why they don't care.
Google will absolutely not give the average or small
business user a way to communicate on the phone when it is
important/necessary .. if I had know this before I would never have gotten involved with Adsense/Adwords years ago Finally after much frustration I just said I don't need Adsense/Adwords. I'll do the same here at some point
When E-mails or reading online solutions just
won't work As long as this is Google's business model they will continue
to do well or won't. Time will tell won't it
Keep aggravating the public Google and we'll see how long you keep market share.
All ready in the news some billionaire is saying maybe I need to start an e-mail service so that I can have something usable since Gmail has become a trainwreck
At least continue to give us an option to go back!
Everything about this new compose is backwards. It is more difficult to use. Causes more mishaps and is downright difficult to even see.
Give us back the old compose and stop giving in to the 12 year olds that want to use email as a texting service.
But even worse than that fiasco is that the format was changed for no good reason. Gmail users were perfectly happy with things the way they were. Then you started mucking with it. First tabbed email (really? It's email, not a browser), now this?
Just stop messing with our inboxes and leave us to compose & send email as we used to.
The new gmail is BAD. Sorry but it is.
I want all the options on one screen right away.
Mainly the ability to change the "from" account when forwarding emails as well as the subject line.
Please do not HIDE things.
Thanks,
On Monday, August 19, 2013 5:14:19 PM UTC-4, Chris Jennings01 wrote:This new compose feature is going to make me go some where else for my mail. It won't send multiple pictures and slows things down.At least continue to give us an option to go back!
On Monday, August 19, 2013 10:33:28 PM UTC+2, Ersher wrote:
> Please continue to post feedback on new compose options here.
I totally dislike the "new" compose. It is lousy. Harder to format emails, more mouse clicks to get to CC, BCC, shows me less of what I am writing or replying to...
Why on earth would anyone in their right mind make changes that make it harder for the users to get their job done, then force it on everyone without choice.
I have been a gmail user for years put up with its many quirks, lack of folders, to near invisible scroll bars to see labels and contacts on the left of the screen.
The latest change is really the limit and I am considering going back to a mail program instead of using browser based gmail.
I really hate this one.
Everything was fine earlier, the old compose was the reason I created a Gmail account, it was so simple and productive.
Now, you have to click so many times for the same thing which you can do with just a single click in old version. SHAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yahoo can rejoice now as millions of users will switch back to good old yahoo again.
"Annie, to send a follow-up email out to a fairly long list of names, you could go to the original email and click Reply to all, then type your new message."
"Annie, before the new compose, there were no little dark grey minimized boxes across the task bar. You definitely had to look in Drafts for all those half finished messages. This is no worse now."
Plain and simple - it doesn't.
It simply doesn't work, not for me, not for the thousands of others who have built our businesses and work methods around gmail and its previous functionality.
The best thing I have found through this forum (thank you) is shift+Compose - which opens Compose in a new, resizeable, moveable window. Great! Incredible! Now........let's think hard on this....if we can have shift+Compose, why can't we set THAT as the default?
And if we can have shift+Compose, why can't we have shift+Reply for a moveable, resizeable reply window?
& hot dang, as long as we have an option for moveable, resizable compose window, why can't we have an option to place formatting at the top where it's actually usable, an option to show to/send/subject fields & to show quoted text (instead of elipses) in reply? We can see text in forwards, why not in reply?
All we need are options, just a simple tab for "Compose/Reply" in that great gmail settings window, to customize what we see when we press compose/reply.
Then all of us can get back to work and there would be no further need for this forum, now in at least 3-4 sections. As much as I enjoy meeting all of you here, I'm sure we all have much more interesting things to say!! I for one have a new album to finish and rehearsals for upcoming concerts. Be curious to know what the rest of you do when you're not here!
Fix this google, it's not hard. You can do this.
Jason, Phil, we're counting on you to make this right. This is a great opportunity to restore the support of your extensive user base.
ps: I had a dream last night I pressed compose and there it was, a moveable, resizeable compose window, with formatting at the top and to/from/subject all showing. I could select elipses on or off as needed in reply. I don't know what's more sad, the fact that I had the dream at all or that I woke up and it wasn't (yet) true.
The arrogance of it all!
Thanks
PS it's = it is (it is never a possessive)
The copying of email addresses from to/cc was a huge plus in original gmail - I used this feature multiple times throughout each day.
The 'new' version suffers a major loss without this ability. Please bring it back.
1) COMPOSE Window: Provide options for the compose window to be
- moveable
- resizable and
= NOT attached to the gmail page.
shift+compose is great. happy I can move/resize the compose screen. just give us an option to make that the default and give reply/forward the same option.
Question - because I'm curious: Why would you think cementing the writing window and keeping it one size only is an improvement? Before we could move/resize the compose window as needed, as well as popout if we wanted and move/resize that. Why take these options away?
2) COMPOSE Fields: I want to see everything in my email as I compose it. That means to/from/cc/subject/formatting. EVERYTHING.
2a) Show to/from/cc/subject fields. (bcc, rarely used, could remain a clickable option)
2b) Make it an option to show all fields constantly, without fields disappearing when you click away.
Why?
1) Now it's an extra click to cc/bcc, two clicks to edit subject.
2) It's distracting to have the top fields appear and disappear.
3) I need to be able to visually verify this information at a glance.
4) I use several different email accounts and need to be able to switch them - and see which one I am sending from - in a glance
2c) remove the grey 'subject' and 'recipients' that pre-fill those fields and put back To: From: Subject: . With those fields pre-filled it looks like there already IS a subject header. Useless and again, distracting. Again, I want to see at a glance everything I need to. I do NOT want to click hither and yon to verify information that should be (and once was) at my fingertips.
3) COMPOSE Formatting: Give us an option to put the formatting bar at the top. Leave it showing so we can simply click on what we need, when we need it. It is counter-intuitive, less efficient and farther to reach at the bottom of the page.
Why? for those of us who write business letters on email, we use formatting a great deal. Formatting at the top is standard. All word processing software has tools at the top. No one places these tools at the bottom of the screen. At the very least it's not ergonomic, not good for the eyes/shoulders/neck to hunch over & peer at the bottom of the page.
4) COMPOSE: Attachments: Place Attachments & the other tools at the top where they are easier to see and verify.
5) COMPOSE: Copy email address from 'Recipient': Why is the ability to copy a person's email from the 'to' bar removed? Now the name is prefilled and address no longer visible. Something used constantly as a tool to quickly to copy and paste a person's email address is now at least three steps longer to do. Useless. Bring this option back.
6) REPLY: Window: Make reply window moveable, resizeable and not stuck at the bottom of the page. It's simple. All you need to do is add the equivalent of shift+compose to reply - and give us an option to make THAT the default. The tiny, unchangeble reply window is extremely limiting - not to mention annoying beyond belief. The current popout reply to the lower right is equally limiting.
7) REPLY: Quoted text: Provide an option to "Show quoted text". If it's quoted I want to see it. Right away. I don't want to click an elipses when I am replying to someone's email to see what they wrote. Quoted text is visible in forward - just make it visible in reply.
8) REPLY: SHOW THE SUBJECT FIELD. Make it visible. Why on earth bury it under a menu?
9) REPLY: Show all to/from information. Replying can involve replying to all, adding or removing people from a thread, in addition to changing a subject header or changing a sending address. We need to see all this information at a glance.
10) REPLY: Show all formatting information at the top of the page. same as compose.
That's it! 10 simple steps.
Even the full screen is not exactly full screen.
And, I just sent a reply. Went to my inbox and, lo, the original message (and conversation) is no longer in my inbox. I look at the yellow bar at the top and it tells me my message has been archived. Uh, archived where? I didn't tell it to archive my message or any of the messages in the conversation. Did Gmail just arbitrarily put the message "somewhere"? Of course, it did give me the option of hitting undo archive but why did it archive it in the first place and why did it do it without any input from me as to where to archive it?
1) Google considers the ca. 1,000 posts that have accumulated on this topic to be trivial and unworthy of meaningful response,
and
2) A single Google Forum is incapable of handling more than 1,000 posts.
Should I draw the obvious conclusion -- that a Google Forum is designed to max out at a posting level that is unimportant? (at least to The Great and Powerful Google, that is) Not surprising, I guess, given the pathetic incompetence Google has displayed in this and several other recent instances.
What I missed was the reason to copy them to something else or are you copying from To: to Bcc: or CC: where you could have placed them in the first place.
I think Sreeram meant it would get easier with practice.
What was easy and simple is now a headache of a process and still does not work properly. Who in their right mind would choose to use this service now?
It would have been more impressive had there been a thousand posters but unfortunaltely (even this thread is the same) only one third of the thousand posts were by a new poster.
If you deduct the amount of people posting to more than one thread I think you'll find the maximum number was little over 500. In this thread out of the 22 posters how many have not not posted to one of the other threads. I count 11 names I do not recognise.
I think it will be easier than what Jason has planned for us in the next version. Wait 18 months to see what he has planned next. I have heard hints of a new Compose opening on a second computer which you have to hunt for in a rubbish dump somewhere close to you. Google Maps will use your location to guide it to you using the Android Device Manager to turn on a siren when you get to within half a mile.
This would be a massive improvement over what we have now. *cackle*
Read my post, please. At no point did I refer to 1,000 POSTERS. In any forum, it is expected that while some people may post only once, others will post a few times, and still others, especially those who are on a fool's errand like trying to explain how to use a deeply flawed product efffectively, will post numerous times.
I don't think this forum is particularly far from the norm in that respect. If the forum maxes out at 1,000 posts, I realize that means half that number of posters or fewer, in some forums many fewer.
My point was that the discussion was disrupted for many hours by the termination of (yet another!) forum and the switch to a new one. For at least 8 of those hours, I can attest that there was no indication of where else one ought to go in Googleland, and I don't think it's paranoia to suspect that Google had that very intent -- to try to blunt the momentum of the public expression of dissatisfaction with Mr. Cornwell's ego-trip abomination of a UI.
Obviously, the forum and the medium influence the "multiplier" that should be applied to each poster. Long ago, news & entertainment media, consumer-product manufacturers, and the White House, among others, had specific multipliers for each medium in which complaints (or praise) were received. For each postcard received, for example, X people were assumed to feel the same way. There were different multipliers for typewritten letters, handwritten letters, phone calls, and the highest multiplier of all was for ... TELEGRAMS! Later, FAXes were for a time heavily weighted, and phone calls became less so, as long-distance became cheaper. Then came e-mail, etc., etc.
Regardless of what one Google Forum poster counts for in today's list of multipliers, I have no doubt that there are a large number of people who feel the same way for every person who actually finds this forum and takes the time to post on it.
The other factor that should concern Google is the RATIO of good-to-bad comments. In this case, it seems to be nearly zero. I can find no unalloyed praise for the new UI. At best, someone acknowledges something positive about it, then proceeds to explain some tedious workaround or more complex way to perform a common task with the new UI that was straightforward with the old.
The 450-million-user figure has been quoted by Google and its shills to explain why they can't provide each of us with our own custom UI. But I would turn that around and ask, for a product being used by 450 million accounts (NOT that many USERS, let's be clear, and let's count users as carefully as we count posters), the following questions:
1. How many users were complaining about the existing interface?
2. What compelling reason did Google have to force hundreds of millions of users onto a learning curve for a dramatically new UI?
3. Since the change, how many users have spontaneously taken the time to locate this forum (or another one like it) and post a POSITIVE review of the new UI?
If you are going to make the case that 500 or so posters is a small number, then compare for us, please, the number out of 450 million who have taken the time to provide (primarily) POSITIVE feedback?
So, you won't have to view Google's ads AND at the same time, you'll successfully advertise why you ditched Gmail to everyone who receives an email from you. Now, only if every one of those recipients forwarded your email to 100 others.......
I have two MAJOR problems with the new replies:
1. We now have to make extra clicks to add a CC or BCC, use formatting tools, or see previous text
and
2. If have opted for full-screen mode but want to edit a subject line, we are automatically reverted to that God-awful "popout reply" box on the bottom right of the screen. There is no option to edit the subject line whilst remaining in full screen mode!!
As much as I can't stand the new compose, the new reply is far worse, and has driven me to revert to using gmail in HTML mode until this is fixed (and if it isn't fixed, ditching gmail and using one of my other providers).
The new UI takes more mouse clicks, more cursor movement, more "hovering," and more disruption of focus to move from the top of the text-entry area to the lower command area.
It is also telling that, viewed at full-screen, the helpful guide you linked consumes 20 pages on my 23" monitor, includes 24 diagrams, and is chockablock with unfamiliar keystroke and mouse-click combinations simply to do things that I and hundreds of millions of other GMail users could do just fine before GMail-Minus (TM) was introduced.
I expect it will be weeks if not months before I can work as seamlessly and efficiently with the new interface as I could with the old, and even with all the workarounds, the best possible use of GMail-Minus will remain inferior to what I had before.
Finally, it is apparent that high atop Mt. Google, there is not the slightest understanding of what a poor move this was, and therefore no users of Google products can have the slightest confidence that it will not be repeated the next time Jason Cornhole or one of the other customer-indifferent pricks at Google decides he knows what's best for them.
"Annie, archive is not a location, it is an action."
Aww the arrogance of google! Reminds me of microsoft. Maybe the current google developers are fired ms workers who became too arrogant even for ms? Could that even be possible?
Google, people DO NOT like change. They especially DO NOT like change forced upon them. I suggest you get your heads out of your collective asses and start listening to your users. You know, the ones that make you $$Billions$$ from all the advertising we put up with in our GMail.
Shit like this makes me want to scream! Give people the option to CHOOSE. What a concept. Nobody likes your crap design and we don't want to get used to it for our own good. Change back or lose us. Jackasses!
It's still there. Click the arrow next to TO and select "Edit subject" from the drop-down menu."
What part of the fact that clicking "edit subject" on the drop-down menu kicks you into the small window at the bottom right of the screen did you miss hearing about?
Related to this problem is that even when composing a brand new email, the "From" account line disappears once you click in the subject line or main body section. What if I want to be sure I am sending my email from the correct account before hitting the send button... which is EVERY SINGLE TIME I write an important email?
Yes, I *could* click on the "recipient" line to reveal my "from" account again, but that's one additional click I need to make EVERY SINGLE TIME I write an email.
Come on, Google. This is just obnoxious.
"You can turn off Send and Archive by clicking the gear>Settings>Scroll down on the General tab to "Send and Archive">Choose 'Hide "Send and Archive" button in reply' then scroll to the bottom and click "Save changes".
If the developers cant make it work or suit users in 6 months - then work out that the analysts that came up with the idea in the first place also got it wrong.
Gmail users use gmail because the format doesn't\diddn't change - "if it ain't broke dont fix it", I dont like the new view and rolling something out, Sorry, FORCING something out to FORCE users to adapt is a little backward.
I dont like feeling like i'm on the end of somebody trying to justify there JOB !
For clarity the reasons why i dont like the new compose window are :
1. It looks greyed out,
2. No Clarity or definition of the active window
3. Why have a "new" window open, when the window you were in already sufficed
4. Why "popup", surely this is against the simple\flat design of google old ?
5. Its forced like a dictatorship and we know what happens to those eventually !
6. To many clicks to get to send
7. Full screen isnt full screen, its the front screen locking out the back
8. Replies to posts are still in the original screen - so no new popup needed there, 1 click - type - send - done. Simples
9. Gmail used to suit all demographics, PC's are now widely used by the 60\70+, it was adopted and setup by nephews, sons and family for them because it was the simplest client on the market. I am already receiving calls about popups, the help screen in the way, cant use it, wheres the old one, i've just got used to it so why change it?.
Most importantly i think i'm just going to go outlook, i use outlook for work so i might as well use outlook online and drop gmail.
And yes - i've been a gmail user since the start when it was invite only !!!!
I'm sorry we have not been formally introduced. I know The C Man and he is truly a despicable character who will pick up on the smallest exaggeration and exaggerate that even further. Your reply is perfect. I do not understand how anybody can retain his so called Top Contributor status with sarcasm such as that.
I have never tried to copy only a few addresses and I know this is probably the wrong way round if there are a massive amount of addresses but either delete those you don't want from the original incoming and copy and paste the rest over (the original post when you re-open it should regain them) or do it as I described before and delete those you don't want to receive the email.
How did you do it in the previous version?
I don't care to be chasing my email around my screen - for example, in Reply, changing the subject forces the reply window to all of a sudden look like a chat window, then I have to click on the diagonal little arrows and then it defaults to what Gmail is calling "full screen" rather than just staying put and letting me change the subject! This is highly annoying.
I would love to know WHY this happens? What is the LOGIC behind this? Or is this A BUG that is going to be worked out in the next couple of days?
thank you.
So I'm going to make this my last post on this subject as I am leaving google products all together.
SO they want suggestions... Here are some suggestions for you...
You want a "clean" interface fine. You can do this without hiding all the format options. You can do this without giving us a "chat" window. And I call it a chat window because essentially; that is what it is. It is not an email window.
First off REVERT this monstrous thing you call a "new" compose which is actually an instant message window.
Second, you want a messaging service then get one. Yahoo and MSN seem to be able to keep their messengers and emails separated. What are you people smoking over there to think that we actually want an IM for an email? IF I want to IM someone I will get a messenger.
Third, LEAVE IT ALONE!!! It wasn't broken stop breaking it.
Fourth, You say want to improve things well how about you improve google+ because I swear it is the worst networking site I have ever seen. And leave our email ALONE!!!!
We've already been shafted. It will be an April Fool's Day release (they've done that before) so if anything goes wrong they can say, "Fooled you! April Fool!".
This is the thread you post suggestions to.
To make matters worse, despite that I have a new computer that works very well, every time a type in the new compose, the entire text jumps up and down slightly with each keystroke. Anyone would find this annoying and distracting and it seems to indicate that the new compose still has bugs.
Like all the Gmail users to whom I have spoken, I wish I had the option to switch back to the old compose. I hope Google will allow this.
Sounds like you are using an out of date browser. Probably IE 8 or 9. You need the latest or swap to a good browser such as Firefox.
I, too, have the problem of the line 'jumping up and down' but it happens in both Reply and New Compose. I use Firefox v 23.0.1. I agree that it is rather distracting.
(1) Nobody seems to know that there is an option to compose in a new tab. It's still as ugly and non-functional as the pop-up compose, but it takes forever to actually open it up. You either hold down Ctrl when you click "Compose," or pop out the Reply compose window to full-screen and then have to hit the little pop-out/resize button and click Ctrl, which is ridiculous. If we can have an option to Compose in Full Screen, why not an option to "Compose and Reply in New Tab?" At least then we get a full page to write the email on, which is one of the biggest complaints, and is fixable with a fast patch-up job. Right now the full-screen option is a half-screen and doesn't even work for Reply. Stupid stupid stupid.
(2) Too many formatting and other features are hidden behind extra clicks. It takes too long if you do a lot of formatting. Most of my emails are 3+ paragraphs. If I need to send 1 line to someone, well, quite frankly, I just text them. Why would I ever use email for that?
(3) Too many buttons are icons instead of text, even though we have checked off "Show Icons Instead of Text" in our settings. If we have checked that off, WE OBVIOUSLY WANT TEXT BUTTONS!
(4) The new position of the toolbar is stupid. The formatting toolbar should be on the top, not on the bottom. Also, having the Send and Discard buttons next to the formatting toolbar is astonishingly stupid and awkward. And why is send on the bottom left? Was this designed exclusively for left-handed people suffering from attention deficit disorder???
(5) The inability to distinguish between CC, BCC, and see the subject when composing is also maddening. These things are critical elements in sending email, yet they're hidden behind more clicks, collapse randomly -- the UI is practically schizophrenic. I feel like I'm in that movie Memento when trying to do email ("OK, so... what just happened?") pretty much every two seconds.
(6) Whoever came up with these UI changes should be fired immediately. Seriously. I sincerely hope they end as up a lice-covered hobo eating soup under a highway overpass. The "New Compose" changes are so bad, they deserve it.
The only reason I even use my gmail account anymore is because I can access it on the very rudimentary Mail app on my Droid (HTC DNA) phone. With that I just read mail and maybe send occasional one-line emails, but I don't only access my email from my phone, and most of my composing is lengthy and detailed.
I already made a Yahoo account and set up forwarding, and if this isn't fixed by the end of the month, that will probably be my new primary email. Unfortunately, I also have a work account for Gmail -- thankfully this crap-fest hasn't hit me there yet. I think it's because we're on an old "unsupported" version of IE, which somehow works infinitely better than your new "supported" version. Seriously, this is the single biggest embarrassment to your company that I can think of, at least in recent memory.
Bottom line? THE NEW CHANGES MAKE IT COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE TO EFFICIENTLY DO WORK OR CONDUCT BUSINESS WITH GMAIL. I really don't know how we can make it any more clear than that!!
This isn't just a matter of getting used to a bad (literally horrible) design; this is something that has been designed to be so counter intuitive and so counterproductive that it completely defeats the purpose.
When I am writing an email I want to be focused on the content of the email, it should not be a struggle to fight to get the email to do what I want it to do - which ultimately it will not.
I have absolutely no desire to be distracted by the completely unnecessary view of the rest of my inbox - I want to be able to see the email that I am attempting to write. I want back simple common controls instead of incomprehensible changing heiroglyphics that don't seem to consistently do anything but get in the way.
Just bring back the standard compose and let people get back to work instead of torturing them with this nonsense.
On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 9:09:44 AM UTC-4, dqstart wrote:i was just forced to try and use the new compose again and it is completely impossible to use. I was literally trying to forward 3 links to someone and they wouldn't even fit in the window. I can't figure out how to resize the window, it won't scroll, if I try to drag the bars or anything else the thing minimizes (it actually just seemed to just disappear for no logical reason). I had know way of knowing if it was sent or if anything worked correctly (it did not).
now it's in the right part of the screen some were in the corner and there is no way you can increase it or move.
So you simply do not see it correctly on the notebook screen.
Try these options:
Full-screen: If you would like a centered compose box with formatting options automatically expanded, use full screen mode. You can enable this as your default view by clicking on the bottom right corner arrow of your compose box and selecting Default to full-screen.
Pop-out: If you would like to open a new window to compose your message, hold the Shift key while you click Compose.
New tab: If you would like to open a new tab to compose your message, hold the Ctrl or ⌘ key while you click Compose.
On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 9:16:28 AM UTC-4, S@aa wrote:
Thanks wdurham, but no, this does not answer my question.
At first glance the middle option seems to be the one, but see how the "Drop your file" thing comes up in the background? It EMBEDS the picture via DD, i want it ATTACHED.
BOOO FOR GOOGLE!
I DETEST the new format. And I especially DETEST REPLYING in the new format. Below, along the side, popup, all horrendous.
Will someone please explain WHY we can not have a separate, moveable/resizeable Reply page? Shift+Compose = new Compose window. Why not REPLY?
1. It hides CC/BC options until 2 clicks
2. Hides attachments of forwarded messages until you scroll down
3. to many mouse overs / clicks to reveal options
4. There was nothing wrong with the old interface, it was easy to use and intuitive
Please provide an option to revert to the old interface.
Thank you.
Brett Linzer
And what genius thought to put the formatting tab next to the send button? If it wasn't for the undo delay that I built into my send mail I'd be so screwed with crappy looking email sent by one shaky click.
"Dragging a photo to the middle of the screen embeds it. Dragging a photo to the bar at the bottom attaches it. Dragging a document to the body or the bar attaches it."
manny b should keep his nose out of this discussion. He doesn't post enough to warrant his commenting anywhere. I really have no idea how he stays a TC. Must be bribing somebody.
On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:55:22 AM UTC-4, Amy Harris wrote:As it seems that Google is ignoring us once again (I still have not gotten an answer as to why, when I go to edit a subject line in a reply in full-screen mode, I am reverted to that hideous "chat" mode), I hope everyone is voicing their complaints on Facebook and social media, too... another good place to post them is here: https://plus.google.com/118336139840053353940/posts
That's it, If anybody can charm a young lady it has to be you. You're one of the reasons I don't post as much.
"If have opted for full-screen mode but want to edit a subject line, we are automatically reverted to that God-awful "popout reply" box on the bottom right of the screen. There is no option to edit the subject line whilst remaining in full screen mode!!"
1, when composing you cannot see the entire page, only allows for minimizing and it's very distracting and hard to work with.
Must have a better option or you will loose people
When I'm in "reply" and make a change to the subject line, my window goes to the bottom right hand corner and looks very similar to a chat window. I do use chat to keep in contact with my adult children and that's why I call this occurrence "chat" mode.
then you have to click on that diagonal double-arrow and now all of a sudden your window looks like the "full screen" window. (which isn't full screen by the way. Who decided to call it that? lol. "bigger and centered on top of your grayed out inbox" is a much better description!). Anyway, now the reply window won't go back to looking like it did just moments before you decided to change the subject line!
Is this a bug? If not, why on earth would I (or anyone) want my window to go back to the "chat" corner? If it's a bug, please bring it to someone's attention. Maybe it will finally be fixed in 2 or 3 years. Getting an electrical shock through your keyboard when one decides to change the subject line would be a quicker way to learn not to change the subject line in order to keep with Gmail's New Compose!
sorry. I am simply one of the "rounding error users" who is frustrated by this New Compose and simply CANNOT COMPREHEND why we can't have the option to stay with the Old compose!!!
"when composing you cannot see the entire page, only allows for minimizing and it's very distracting and hard to work with."
That's my wife's favourite phrase.
I'm sure I posted advice on the way I do it before.
Don't change the subject line until you have done everything else.
and by the way, I use that phrase with my SO, too. lol.
It would be nice to see entire text instead of the only lines you are writing...
Monkeys would be better suited ince they don't have "FREE WILL" they do what they learn. Humans ... not so much .. we like options and choices!
this is doing basically the same thing on at least three different PC's with the newest version of Firefox and Palemoon, with 3 different versions of Windows. Flash and Java are up-to-date, the PC's are clean and well-maintained so I am not going to be led on some wild goose chase of an excuse for the design problems with this "new compose" catastrophe.
I don not want to open a new tab or window or have a tiny little chat box - I want the compose frame to take up the entire pane like it used to so that it can be usable again. I want buttons that don't change as you try to click on them and try to guess how many levels of menus you have to click-thru to get to basic tasks - I don't even care about formatting at all, I just want to be able to send a simple email again.
> Please continue to post feedback on new compose options here.
Options? Where? I didn't see any. Please change it back. I use my email for work, and I just don't have time to be Google's guinea pig. One wayward email could cost me a client and my livelihood. It ain't broke, so why on Earth do you insist on "fixing" it? Now I have to create another email account somewhere else so I can work without fear of emailing sensitive information to the wrong person. I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THIS!!
I have an e-mail program called Eudora Pro that I have kept on using even after I started using Gmail and Eudora has served me well. It is an OLD program but it is worth the money I paid for it. Unfortunately, it is no longer available for purchase. However, there is an alternative. You guys might want to use Thunderbird (http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/).
Try it out. You might be surprised by the result. It's also free. :)
is their a "proper way" of putting on pants?
That's funny, there have been multiple times in my life when i've been in a situation where i needed to change clothes and was wearing loose clothing and tight shoes, and it was actually easier to leave the shoes on and just put the new pants on over the shoes.
So trying to defend Google's attempts to force us to do things in a "correct" manner, even when just applied to a joking situation, doesn't really work out well.
https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=html&zy=h
It's old, it's not got the luxeries we're used to *now* but it's what us old timers used to use and love years ago.
Personally, with the exception of a very few options, I prefer the Basic HTML Mode over the new crap Google's "artists" have come up with. (Piccaso was an artist, and you see the weird, twisted, warped things he's created)
A UI designed for people who know how to use a computer, not for people who use a computer and don't know what UI even stands for.
I'm sorry if I just offended any one, but that should be a wake up call for you to GO HENCE FORTH AND LEARN THYN TERMINOLOGY!
Given the number of posts, clearly I am not the only one who does not appreciate the latest update to the Gmail compose/reply interface. In the message I sent to Google Feedback appended below, I generate more heat than light, so I'll just point out one functional change that irks me to no end... Why defy years of user interface convention and put the text formatting and message options at the bottom of the input window instead of the top?
------------------------------------
Posted to Google Feedback re Gmail...
Almonte ON 2013.08.20
As much as I admire and depend on the Google ecosystem, I feel that more and more decisions are being made that undermine the user experience. Remember that the North American and European user base is getting older. Even as a technophile, I find that I am getting less tolerant of change for change's sake.
After a week of using the new Gmail interface, I still hate it! Looks like I'll have to fire up Thunderbird in IMAP mode and only use Gmail web interface as last resort when traveling. As I did with Microsoft a few years ago, it looks like I'm going to have to wean myself from my Google dependency and look for simple effective solutions that will serve my long term requirements.
Your insensitivity to user experience bespeaks the mentality of a corporate Goliath focused on selling eyeballs to advertisers and your collaboration with the U.S. government security establishment now raises concerns of privacy.
It may take me awhile but the writing on the wall is clear, "So long Google, it's been good to know you!" Perhaps you old motto should be rewritten to, "Only do evil when you think you can get away with it!"
David Baril
Almonte ON
(If you don't understand that reference, you should look it up, quite amusing and really a relevant piece of repeating history)
My point though is that companies like Microsoft, Google, even the guy who makes 7zip are now in the frame of mind that users are too stupid to be able to use their products the way they want, and that we need to be corralled like sheep.
I feel like I'm being punished for actually knowing how to use a computer, how to read tooltips, how to figure out quickly how to achieve my goals, but because the new generation of computer users - People who are only a few years on the keyboard, don't have the intelligence or patience to learn how to use the software properly. Combine this with things like Apple products, the Chrome Book, and other consumer internet devices that are intended for the computer illiterate, and we're facing a complete and utter stupification of high technology.
Don't get me wrong, I understand it only makes sense for any business to achieve a state of continued customer base growth, but it does not make sense to alienate those users who have been there for decades. (We'll, for 15 years anyways) It's a damned shame Google is trying their damnedest to push us away.
So here's my big "F-U" to Google: https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=html&zy=h
And when they stop allowing access to the Basic HTML Mode, I will pull all of my data and services from Google.
Is there somewhere we can complain? I just don't understand why they don't give the option to continue to use the old format. I hate the new compose format. Ugghhhh....
"Don't change the subject line until you have done everything else."
On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 7:29:22 PM UTC+2, Daetrin wrote:
So trying to defend Google's attempts to force us to do things in a "correct" manner, even when just applied to a joking situation, doesn't really work out well.
Oh it doesn't matter most of the world would say ... well then why not let me choooooose how I e-mail folks without abandoning another e-mail address. Sigh for now html will suffice.
On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:02:29 PM UTC+2, Dan Berube wrote:Let me clarify. What leg "left or right" MUST be put in pants/trousers first to be the correct way?Oh it doesn't matter most of the world would say ... well then why not let me choooooose how I e-mail folks without abandoning another e-mail address. Sigh for now html will suffice.
Ironically the reply feature in this group is more like the good old gmail interface.
The pre-updated version, as someone has already pointed out, had the hallmarks of a purpose-built desktop App; robust and intuitive.
The current new version feels lighter, more web-based, vastly less intuitive (having to click around to find everything and reveal the most basic of tools).
The majority of people are not looking for some kind of chat-style system to send email, many people actually want to send emails (professional looking, clear and well-defined emails) and there is no need to constantly hide actions and tools away as if the user is going to get bored or annoyed that they're there.
People go to a restaurant to eat, to the cinema to watch a movie and to gmail.com TO SEND EMAILS, so the the email enhancements being easy to view and accessible is the very reason people are there, not to send chat-like messages.
Please give users the option to return back to the previous, functionally superior format.
On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 12:44:42 PM UTC-5, Jeremy Denslinger wrote:
> I feel like I'm being punished for actually knowing how to use a computer, how to read tooltips, how to figure out quickly how to achieve my goals, but because the new generation of computer users - People who are only a few years on the keyboard, don't have the intelligence or patience to learn how to use the software properly. Combine this with things like Apple products, the Chrome Book, and other consumer internet devices that are intended for the computer illiterate, and we're facing a complete and utter stupification of high technology.
I never really thought about that. Back in the '80s, I took my first coding class at a local university when I was eight. Since then, there isn't much about computers I can't figure out on my own. I guess people nowadays aren't like that. I guess they *do* need Google to hold their hands and pat them on the head. I, however, do not.
> So here's my big "F-U" to Google: https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=html&zy=h
> And when they stop allowing access to the Basic HTML Mode, I will pull all of my data and services from Google.
I am *positive* they didn't realize the old UI is still functional. They will quietly disable it and say that they intended to phase it out anyway. True story.
Rich.
Rich.
I am *positive* they didn't realize the old UI is still functional.
Why won't it support drag&drop !?!!? This slows me down by a couple of years.
Why won't it support drag&drop !?!!?
I, and numerous others, have posted on here MULTIPLE TIMES regarding a bug in the REPLY window-- here were my words(and I was not the first to bring this up):
"If we have opted for full-screen mode but want to edit a subject line, we are automatically reverted to that God-awful "popout reply" box on the bottom right of the screen. There is no option to edit the subject line whilst remaining in full screen mode!!"
The best attempt at an answer we have received thus far is:
"Don't change the subject line until you have done everything else."
Um, no. If a user has opted to use full-screen mode, then they should be able to continue to use full-screen mode throughout the entire time they are writing their reply. They should not be taken to popout mode at any point during the composition of their reply. It is not truly a full-screen mode if a certain action suddenly transports to popout mode. Be a grownup and admit it, Google, THIS IS A BUG.
There are several fixes possible:
- let the "full screen" option really use the full screen of a PC
- if -for some mysterious reason- the Google people want the "full screen" option to use only a part of the screen, add an extra feature called "partial screen" which uses the full screen (not more illogical than what we have now)
Why can't we the public contact Google on the phone?
Does anyone have a phone number for a real LIVE person at Google headquarters and not someone in India that you reach if you call this number 888-228-8612 and this number is useless 650-253-0000 Corporate Headquarters
We the Google community are wasting our time on here folks. Somebody must know an actual employee's phone number that matters ... a secretary perhaps.
Come on here .. help me out you techies/programmer types ... Could/Should they have done a better job before they rolled this out.
Anyone have other thoughts about the tone and what Ersher just said ... God help me with my blood pressure!
1. Reply "inline": pretty much ever since e-Mail, when you hit "reply" you get the message text indented with the > sign. You can thus reply after each idea, so everybody keeps a logical thread. Now, in the new compose, after you hit "reply" you have to MOVE YOUR HAND TO THE MOUSE AND FIND A 7PX TARGET which expands the old message. SOLUTION: pretty obvious: either default back to actually displaying the text or, at least, provide an option to default to that.
2. Reply "inline" (2): once you managed to hit that ridiculously small ellipsis, if you wish to remove more than a few lines, a new game begins: you can't hit "shift-page down" as it was previously possible, as this does absolutely nothing. Nor can you position the cursor, scroll down and hit Shift-Mouse click, as that does not work either. You're left with the PATHETIC SHIFT-ARROW DOWN repeated indefinitely. SOLUTION: again obvious: make sure the standard key combinations work also in that window (they do work in this window, btw).
3. REPLY WINDOW TOO SMALL. I get it, you can "compose in a new window" or layer or tab or whatnot. But previously you could simply hit reply and you had a decent (not 4-lines) window with the text already there (see 1. above). You did not have to scroll the outer window to make the inner window larger (how many "mothers" and "grandmothers" are asking themselves and their progeny how to fix that??).
4. "WHO AM I?" No, it's not a philosophical question, but a usability one: MANAGEMENT OF MULTIPLE IDENTITIES. Suppose I have two (or more) e-mail identities. All linked to GMail, so that I can reply as a...@gmail.com or b...@somedomain.org. Such as one for work and one for home, or you name it. Previously you could all the time see e-mail under which you were sending out and could quickly correct. Now you don't. SOLUTION: either keep displaying the identity all the time or, if you think that's eating up screen real estate (I am writing from a 12" XPS laptop and still don't feel like having a space problem, not to mention that you can't buy any monitor nowadays below 19") have the top message bar (where the recipients are) color-coded: each identity gets a color (ideally: user-chosen).
5. Attachments "hovering": if I write a 3-screen e-mail (which happens to me on a daily basis, both private and professional) and refer to 4 attachments, scrolling all the way to the bottom, just to make sure they are there and the right files are there it's a royal pain. SOLUTION: Why not have a collapsible bar with the attachments? When I click the paperclip symbol I get the list with the attachments. If there's at least one, the paperclip has a different color (maybe even the number of attachments overlaid). And, why have all attachment fields equal in size. If I have "a.pdf" and "Some lengthy report filename.doc", why do both have to occupy the same area? You're not doing it with the recipients fields, so why do you do it with the attachments?
Generally speaking, I second (or millionth) the opinion that the best thing would be to actually revert to the "old compose" as there was nothing wrong with it. Not being able to find a button or two is something that you get over (I hated the Office Ribbon, now I like it much more than the old menus, BUT THERE WAS ADDED FUNCTIONALITY and here I can only see LOST FUNCTIONALITY).
Hope it's enough food for thought.
> 5) COMPOSE: Copy email address from 'Recipient': Why is the ability to copy a person's email from the 'to' bar removed? Now the name is prefilled and address no longer visible. Something used constantly as a tool to quickly to copy and paste a person's email address is now at least three steps longer to do. Useless. Bring this option back.
While I fully agree with you that's annoying, you may be as surprised as I was to find out that:
a) you can click-drag recipients between fields and
b) you can select one or several addresses (place cursor, shift-left arrow). Hit Ctrl-C and paste wherever you want. You get full name and e-mail address.
(I am writing from a computer where I haven't yet been "upgraded" so it's just what I recall from previous tests). It's definitely not intuitive (same kind of interface in Yahoo! Mail does NOT allow you to do this), I agree, but at least it works as expected, if you have the guts to try it.
HTH
First, I am not one of those who hate change. Windows 95 was terrific software in its day, but 98 was an improvement because it made needed updates. Vista was an upgrade and 7 is fantastic (haven't tried 8).
That being said, I can't see how the new compose option is better. I don't see any improvements that makes drafting email any easier. I don't see any new features that make me say, "What took you so long?" It almost seems that this was change for the sake of change.
You (Google) said the prior version was not coming back. In that case, how about upgrading the upgrade and adding come of the items that so many people have requested? It didn't take Coca-Cola long to realize people were not buying New Coke because they liked "old" Coke and did not feel a need to change.
Statistics say that for every person who takes the time to voice a negative opinion, 40 people just quietly stop using the product and find something else. If that's the case here, you may be looking at a larger exodus than it appears.
Sorry to take so long. Click into the address box and click on Bccc which is on the right to activate it. Now Click on bcc: and it will bring up a list of your contacts. Top left is a menu (probably says My Contacts) co click on this and you'll have a list of your Groups and can choose which one. Click the All button above the check boxes and you have it made.
I rest my case!
Especially concerning REPLYING...I still find it much more handy to reply at the top of the page rather than the bottom, and to have the formatting options toward the top of the reply pane rather than bottom, and to have an overall larger pane in which to reply, with the thread of the conversation below my response.
So, while it may seem like an improvement to some, I'm wondering if Gmail is willing to bring back the classic option for those of us who think this is a downgrade...
Thanks for the opportunity to comment.
I don't think this forum is particularly far from the norm in that respect. If the forum maxes out at 1,000 posts, I realize that means half that number of posters or fewer, in some forums many fewer.
And then to find out THEY MEANT TO DO IT THIS WAY? WTF? Who on earth decided this is "working as intended" ??? On what planet does this even make sense? holy crap people.
@Amy Harris and Dan Berube,My mistake -- I just checked with our team and this is not a bug, but rather a feature and is working as intended. However, I have passed along your request to be able to reply in full-screen after editing the subject.
On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 3:44:29 PM UTC-5, Ersher wrote:Hi Amy Harris,Please be respectful to our Top Contributors -- they try to provide answers where they can and certainly have their own opinions separate from Google's. One of our TCs has alerted me to your issue and I was able to reproduce this. I will pass this along to our team. In future if you notice what you think is a bug in the new compose then I would encourage you to start a new thread by clicking the red POST A QUESTION button, that way we can separate feedback on features vs technical issues with the product. Thank you for reporting this.
START A NEW POST AND BE RUDE. That seems to be the only way to get someone to take a 2nd look!
I hope you didn't have a heart attack when you saw this:
@Amy Harris and Dan Berube,My mistake -- I just checked with our team and this is not a bug, but rather a feature and is working as intended. However, I have passed along your request to be able to reply in full-screen after editing the subject.
" One of our TCs has alerted me to your issue and I was able to reproduce this. I will pass this along to our team. In future if you notice what you think is a bug in the new compose then I would encourage you to start a new thread by clicking the red POST A QUESTION button, that way we can separate feedback on features vs technical issues with the product. Thank you for reporting this."
"My mistake -- I just checked with our team and this is not a bug, but rather a feature and is working as intended. However, I have passed along your request to be able to reply in full-screen after editing the subject."
"So, if I am hearing Mr. Ersher correctly, START A NEW THREAD for every issue."
Was your point that a TC will always be around to help while you try to score point about how difficult everything is? If so you scored your point but you could have given the help and made your point at the same time.
This thread is for feedback about the new iteration and can be studies at any time. A bug is a problem that necessitates fast action so we TC's will alert the Google Employees so it can be acted upon. Do you expect an employee to watch every word that is typed here? What about all the other threads?
Within a period of 18 minutes you posted three comments, two of which are disparaging, to somebody who really would like to take something back to the design team in the way of a suggestion that might improve the new version.
If you could think of one thing that might make the new system a little more palatable what would it be? Going back to the old system is not an acceptable suggestion.
If you actually provided a forum for people to state their case BEFORE you make stupid, inconsiderate, inefficient changes, and stopped trying to defend these said choices we would not be complaining.
If you make something worse for me... you bet I will complain. It is precisely because people do not complain that we are dished up with no choices.
Yes Gmail is free. Like I said, been a fan for over a decade but the latest changes have left a VERY bad taste in everyone's mouth. From how Google conducts itself lately, to changes to the search engine that pretty much ONLY favour spam and people who pay to appear at the top of the list.
I’m now also getting everyone’s angry responses to every thread instead of the new post I started. I thought someone had posted under my thread. It just goes to show badly thought out this forum is.
I’m getting such a full inbox I’ll have to find a way to somehow unsubscribe. Boy. You have really pissed a lot of people off according to my “new” inbox.
I don't think this forum is particularly far from the norm in that respect. If the forum maxes out at 1,000 posts, I realize that means half that number of posters or fewer, in some forums many fewer.
Joe, the Forum software is designed as a Help Centre. The average thread requires a question from a user with a problem and an answer from someone who knows how to solve it. Add some back and forth to sort out what the original question really meant and 10 posts should be fine. Therefore programming to handle 1000 is pretty much overkill.
So are you telling us to just walk away? Simple yes or no will suffice as I really prefer not to waste anyone’s time.
This thread is for feedback about the new iteration and can be studies at any time. A bug is a problem that necessitates fast action so we TC's will alert the Google Employees so it can be acted upon. Do you expect an employee to watch every word that is typed here? What about all the other threads?
Within a period of 18 minutes you posted three comments, two of which are disparaging, to somebody who really would like to take something back to the design team in the way of a suggestion that might improve the new version.
If you could think of one thing that might make the new system a little more palatable what would it be? Going back to the old system is not an acceptable suggestion.
The forum has always been open for your comments and there were many who started posting last November when they first saw what was coming. Annie has been poting for the past few months. Where were you?
Since it is "impossible" to go back to the old Compose window, why not make a new Compose window that is new, yet looks and feels exactly the same as the Old Compose Window?
That way the egos of the people who spent untold time and money making a product that is not an improvement can be assuaged as they wouldn't have to revert (perish the thought!) and we would all go back to being happy with gmail.
After all, they spent a fortune "improving" a product that didn't need to be changed.
Reading again and again that Google has decided that their ego is bigger that their respect for their users so they won't "go back" no matter what, just makes Google look foolish. A good and responsive company is always open to feedback, especially when so many people are telling them the same thing.
You paint a very negative picture of Google and make it look like it has reached a point of being so big it only cares about egos within the company.
You would think that the number of people who chose to revert would have been a clue too...
But hearing from you "you should have talked before" doesn't make the new Compose Window any better, nor does it excuse Google's silly reaction of "we're not changing it because we're Google and you're not"... It just makes Google look worse.
Hi Amy Harris,
Please be respectful to our Top Contributors
My reponse to this:
Maybe the users should respect the top cons and google staff, but GOOGLE NEEDS TO START RESPECTING US AGAIN!
I have pointed out previously that it was down to the TC's and the few that did not wait until the option to go back was delayed until now. The option to change the default to expanded and the visible format bar were down to those who started fighting last November.
I am sick and tired of technology companies coddling the stupid and neglecting the intelligent!
I am one voice, but I speak for many who wish not to. I speak for those who have given up, for those who have moved on. I am one voice of many, HEAR US!
Please have the good manners to post the name of the person you are attacking? I'm wondering what you call a legitimate name. Anybody can choose what they call themselves in the forums. Do you think there is somebody with the name of "Level Seven" or "Annie306" is an android or robot? I don't think "Joe's" family name is really Anonymous.
It just speaks of the egos of the engineers who designed this flawed "upgrade" and their refusal to consider they don't know everything.
I have made a very practical proposition: they should re-upgrade it so that it has the look and feel of the old one - maybe play with colors and such - and declare victory.
I don't see why they have to treat their users like the old Czars and decree an Ukase on us.
On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:22:30 PM UTC-4, George1942 wrote:I do not want to post a question I wanted an answer to MY question but guess I'm not gonna get it.
Full-screen: If you would like a centered compose box with formatting options automatically expanded, use full screen mode. You can enable this as your default view by clicking on the bottom right corner arrow of your compose box and selecting Default to full-screen.
Pop-out: If you would like to open a new window to compose your message, hold the Shift key while you click Compose.
New tab: If you would like to open a new tab to compose your message, hold the Ctrl or ⌘ key while you click Compose.
On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38:09 PM UTC-4, dk keaux wrote:how can I convert back to the old compose
And I said legible name, not legitimate.
I have started using my university email for everything except gchat, but my university recently switched to gmail. Hopefully it can keep the old compose since I'm required to use it for certain school purposes.
"Down-arrow and Enter expands it"
Hello? So it took almost a week of complaints, without answers, with mocking, withholding arrogance, for you to dish out this little fishbone? I asked myself, days ago, about those useless, obstructive elipeses. And hello? Why can't we MAKE THIS CHOICE ourselves? Maybe we prefer the inverse. Maybe we want to SHOW text all the time. Maybe that works better for a more rounded way of thinking (let me review what they wrote again before I start my reply). Maybe that makes some minds more efficient. You don't want to see it? great, have an option to hide it. For me, and countless others, we want to see it. SEE IT ALL, To/From/Subject. Quoted text. Formatting. Move the reply screen around as needed.
To all of these requests, and more, for days and days now, we've heard zero - zilch - nada - zero - direct reply from anyone at Google answering any of our questions.
For the record, I reject outright the minimalist redesign. It's ugly for one, it's inelegant, and it doesn't work. Not for me. Not for the thousands passionately bringing their complaints to you.
The new UI is also slower. Even as I type this very sentence the cursor can't keep up with my fingertips. I'm watching the letters fill in AFTER I type. When I backspace it's even slower. Another price to pay for minimalism, with all the 'hiding' of tools and functions we get a slower, less immediately responsive interface? Letters appearing in milliseconds after I type? That never happened before unless I was on a really bad internet connection. Since this new version, slow, along with useless, ineffectual and inelegant, is the new standard.
How many times do we have to ask, how many people have to complain, how many forums will we max out until you hear us? Obtuse is one thing, but this is mind boggling on any level of interpretation. Why are there no tech articles on the uproar? Who are you paying off not to cover this story? People are reverting to html email and you don't see this as a sign?
For the millionth time: FUNCTIONALITY. That's all we're asking for. FUNCTIONAL GMAIL.
Did Google want us to go down into the basement, ignore the "Beware of the Leopard" sign, and sit on the toilet while trying to get the filing cabinet drawer open to know about this?
I mean it really feels like this:
"It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'" - Arthur
But I guess it's too late, I guess the Earth has been destroyed and we're all just figments of probability. Only, I don't see any chance of an Earth MkII.
It is complete absurdity to expect a people who don't participate in every single experimental feature and loom over the developer's shoulders to not express our outrage when those who have done so and have helped to steer technology down a harmful path.
A man should conquer his environment, to do other wise is death to that man. Likewise, to form an environment that is conducive of and incubating ignorance, laziness and blatant stupidity is also death to that man.
Oh, you suggest converting to the full screen. We'll that's fine if your initiating the email, but in a string or reply, you can't refer to the original message without closing the full screen then scrolling to the top of the email string.
In the old style the buttons (attach file, photo, etc) was right there...now we click on an arrow for a drop down selection. Yeah, that is a lot more easier and quicker; NOT!
Apparently your IT Design Team stuck in a cubical all day long has no comprehension what real people need or like. Bring back to old layout Gmail design and make us happy. At this point Yahoo or Hotmail is looking better each time I need to compose an email.
You guys might think it's cool to type like facebook and this is the 'new' way. But let us users decide what we want...We are the customers that all switched to Gmail because it was good, but we can also all switch away...
"Please have the good manners to post the name of the person you are attacking? I'm wondering what you call a legitimate name. Anybody can choose what they call themselves in the forums. Do you think there is somebody with the name of "Level Seven" or "Annie306" is an android or robot? I don't think "Joe's" family name is really Anonymous."
Do these guys use Email, or are they just chatting internally all day?
What if I want to compare messages side by side, or work on two messages.. Nope. Can't be done, only 1 at a time.
Please suggest some alternatives to Gmail, ready to switch today.
I don't know why they had to take away the option to switch back to the old compose. For other companies, I understand that continuing to provide old options means they must continue to provide support for old options, which is not cost-effective. But Google does not provide support for any of its options, new or old, so I can't see why they won't let us stick with the old options. It just seems ridiculous to me.
I highly doubt Google will listen at all to any of us, but I sincerely hope they do...
" I mean it really feels like this:
"It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'" - Arthur "
Do you find it all so very amusing?
Hopefully Mailpile will be launched soon so that people have an alternative...
Why do we have to learn so many commands to just compose the e-mail.
What profit will you make by annoying the people by this new crap.
None of the e-mail service have crap like pop up window.
We do not have time to do all the gimmicks and instructions.
Leave this POP UP GIMMICKS TO APPLE, MICROSOFT HAS TRIED THIS AND HAS FAILED. WINDOWS VISTA AND WINDOWS 8 ARE FAILURES. THEN THEY INTRODUCED WINDOWS 7 ACCORDING TO PEOPLE'S DEMAND.
I am an Indian and millions of people here have switched to YAHOO MAIL NOW.
New email compose: slow, claustrophobic size, requires unnecessary extra clicks.
Clear and direct.
They should leave this POP UP GIMMICKS TO APPLE, MICROSOFT HAS TRIED THIS AND HAS FAILED. WINDOWS VISTA AND WINDOWS 8 ARE FAILURES. THEN THEY INTRODUCED WINDOWS 7 ACCORDING TO PEOPLE'S DEMAND.
Some body has changed this just to get appraisal from boss.
* Full screen is not... full screen. People buy big monitors with high resolution to display useful stuff on them, not a useless grey background. Fail!
* Reply/forward hopelessly broken. To forward an email message:
** hit forward - 1 click
** click popout - 2 clicks
** click full screen - 3 clicks (and even then full screen isn't full screen)
** want to edit the subject? - choose 'edit subject' - 5 clicks (yep, you have to click twice. Apparently even though only 1/2 of the screen actually displays anything useful in 'full screen', the screen real estate expense of a single line to display the subject was just too much)
If I choose to compose an email... well, that's actually what I want to do and focus on. Google I don't want to be able to see my inbox behind my compose window, I'll get back to my inbox after I've finished composing my e-mail.
Unfortunately so many things are hooked into my gmail account that it would be difficult to switch. Holding out hope that Google come to their senses or some smart person creates an extension to revert back to the old gmail.
Given Google's history of shutting down useful services (reader/notebook), and this latest effort, my trust in Google has gone and I'll be avoiding any of their new 'products'.
What would an acceptable answer be? Would you wait until the house burned down before calling the fire brigade or are you that well insured? Two splash screens, one in November and the next in April that you had to go through before being able to get into your inbox and you waited to complain. Did you think of even learning the system or were you relying on all the others who were relying on you to raise the alarm?
I have a feeling the majority of those who really are going to complain have done so. Others who dislike what it has become have either left Gmail or are using a third party to access it. Trouble is there are so few prepared to actually complain.
Shouting abuse at TC's, RS's or GE's is not going to do a thing.to help your case. The TC's and RS's started putting over what we thought would be the main client complaints and got two of them sorted. I'm betting we can do better but all the screaming on the forums isn't going to help. If you have an idea that would make the new version better speak up. If you haven't then let us do what we do best, help others and try to get Google to listen to what users are saying is wrong and needs improving.
It's intentional so you can see what is behind your composition and even check other mail or open more than one compose at a time. If you are using the expanded window then make sure you click in the centre of the grey bar to re-expand as the arrow symbol will only give your the corner window.
Being at uni it's time to learn. Check out Gmail help and information: Changes To Gmail Compose
Check my profile. We both come from the same great nation of Erewhon and I too am proud of my heritage. If I had known of your heritage I would not have used your name as an example. I have always respected the members of your family for the way they have stayed as far from the limelight as possible. I shall be holidaying in our homeland shortly and wonder if I could possible come visit and photograph the bandersnatch which are becoming exceedingly rare and I don't remember the last sighting of one outside Erewhon.
Email is not fucking text messaging and anyone who thinks so should be fired immediately.
Copying and pasting images is a joke, as the attached illustrates. No sanity. No sense. No point.Just ugly, ugly, weirdness.
> 1. ...Now, in the new compose, after you hit "reply" you have to MOVE YOUR HAND TO THE MOUSE AND FIND A 7PX TARGET which expands the old message.
>
>
> Down-arrow and Enter expands it. Also, down-arrow and Backspace deletes all the quoted content (but it appears to delete your signature too).
Oh, thanks for that! Would not have crossed my mind (what's up today with INTUITIVE usage??)
> 2. ...you can't hit "shift-page down" as it was previously possible, as this does absolutely nothing. Nor can you position the cursor, scroll down and hit Shift-Mouse click, as that does not work either.
>
>
> I just tested those (in Chrome) and they both work fine. So it must be a browser and/or extension issue of some kind.
Yeah, it's a browser issue:
- shift-page-up does not work in Opera, or FF, but works in Chrome and IExplore
- shift-click does not work in Opera, but works in Chrome, Firefox and IExplore
While I agree and know firsthand that cross-platform compatibility is a great PITA, it would be good to be known by GMails development team, methinks.
I'm not a business user, so I can only imagine that those who do use gmail for business purposes are orders of magnitude more frustrated than I am. But I like to compose lengthy, well-thought-out emails to friends, often referring back to previous entries in a thread, or to other threads, while I'm composing. The changes make this much harder, and make me feel as if I should only put as much effort into an email as I would into a text message.
I was using the old system. Want to know why? Probably you don't but I am going to tell you anyway.
Google/Gmail (as a company) is not my life. It's yours. The new look popped up as I was about to attend to the day's email and I couldn't find what I needed -- I certainly had no need for tabs -- so I reverted back to the old look so I COULD quickly do my email.
Then I forgot about it and was never reminded of it again to the change over last night before bed.
So that is where I was... using what WAS the best email system we have today. Sadly that is not the case.
Telling me, in a tone dripping with sarcasm, that I wasn't around back then is just stroppy and defensive! If you had invited me to participate in making Gmail better BEFORE you wrote all the code for the new version would have seen me biting my tongue and just accepting that it was my fault by not being involved.
Telling me after the fact is just a smoke screen! Everyone makes mistakes. It’s how you handle and fix them that counts the most at the end of the day.
Now you have people on fire with rage and a clumsy system that is as good as broken in the minds of users.
If you call this progress then Google has even bigger problems because then you are no longer industry leaders...
What's the value in deactivating fields & hiding formatting options in the first place? If the answer is "to save space", what did users gain by the new compose/reply interface taking up less space?
Thank you so much!
If I wanted to send a text I would use my phone not my email. If I want to IM someone I will get an IM service.
This inane change is a major step backwards. Google is no longer offering me a usable system in which to send and receive emails.
Whoever it was on this design team that decided this was a good idea needs to be fired ASAP! Along with the team that helped them make this mess.
Revert this mess or give me the option to use the old system.
I want email NOT chat.
What's the value in deactivating fields & hiding formatting options in the first place? If the answer is "to save space", what did users gain by the new compose/reply interface taking up less space?
What would an acceptable answer be? Would you wait until the house burned down before calling the fire brigade or are you that well insured? Two splash screens, one in November and the next in April that you had to go through before being able to get into your inbox and you waited to complain. Did you think of even learning the system or were you relying on all the others who were relying on you to raise the alarm?
One main issue I have with HTML is that I cannot use my other email addresses to send. So this truly is not a viable option for me.
The Old Compose had everything I could ever wish for in an email! New Compost really bites.
On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:31:50 AM UTC-4, docstan wrote:
> The new compose screen is awful. I will be switching email programs. Recommendations anyone?
I set up both yahoo and hotmail accounts and am forwarding my gmail messages to them until I have time to actually get into the accounts that send those mails and make the changes.
I'm still unsure of which I prefer hotmail or yahoo but either one of them is better than the mess google has made of gmail in my honest opinion.
On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:50:41 AM UTC-4, ronna wrote:So I decided to try out the HTML version of Gmail. Is there a setting I can select to always open in HTML?
I assume you're getting to the Basic HTML version by going here? http://mail.google.com/mail?ui=html
That's the only way I've figured out how to do it. There doesn't seem to be anything in Settings to toggle between Standard View and Basic HTML.
When I log in, there's something at the bottom of the page to click on for Basic HTML, but it only shows up after I enter my name & password, and then disappears before I can click on it :(
Even the full screen is not exactly full screen.
Why? I liked the old way, it worked well. The key to interfaces is the interface adapts to you, not you adapting to the interface.
On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 10:54:15 AM UTC-4, Amy Harris wrote:docstan: I just set up an account with yandex. Takes some getting used to but far better than the new gmail. Has unlimited storage, too.
several people have voiced their dislike over the new compose/reply, and I am joining in. You are going backwards, Google, and like someone else said " if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
The "old" google was so well done.... why did you make all kinds of things disappear?
Valerie broke down several complaints and clearly explained what the problem was. I hope Google listens!
p
On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 11:51:12 AM UTC-4, Amy Harris wrote:
> tony_b -- the part you left out was "far better than the new gmail". I think that answers your question. I would have to put far more energy into learning the new gmail (not to mention all the extra clicking and decoding of symbols involved every time I compose/reply), than I will in the long run with the new provider, because their UI is more similar to the old gmail. If you want to talk about reputation, eek well that is a whole new can of worms, considering Google's reputation lately with privacy issues (which I have previously avoided mentioning here, since it isn't the appropriate forum). Anyway, I was simply trying to help another user who finds the new gmail as impossible to use as I find it. There are a plethora of other services out there besides yandex; I believe that another commenter suggested a few, and they could be quite good alternatives as well... I certainly haven't done a comprehensive analysis but was rather speaking from my own brief experience.
To use your words, your new account with yandex "Takes some getting used to"
I use the bullets and formatting options in most emails. Having an extra click is a waste of time.
Popping out the email to a new window used to be 1 click. Now it's two. Another time waster.
Copy and paste doesn't work correctly- it takes two steps from one. Ugh.
Overall, we shouldn't be forced to change. This is regressive software at its finest.
-Jon
On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 11:59:23 AM UTC-4, Amy Harris wrote:Also, if you have reasons for disliking yandex, I respect that -- but perhaps you could suggest some other alternatives that are similar to the old gmail?On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 11:51:12 AM UTC-4, Amy Harris wrote:
Seriously, who came up with the absurd notion of having compose as a teeny box in one corner of the screen?! Utter insanity! And the full screen by default option doesn't work on my pc, and is not true full screen anyway, and is annoying, unwieldy and slow on older pcs. :/
Then all the things like save buttons etc are now hidden away, or not there at all. I'm heartily sick of these forced changes that google inflict on us. Bluntly whoever came up with this new compose doesn't know what they are doing, and clearly has no concept of ease of use, or customer choice.
You can change back to the old, stable compose by using Internet Explorer 8 to open gmail.
You're right, but I can attest that right now it seems to be working fine. I've been using it for my business needs since the changeover. I do graphics work and use it mostly to send images to clients.
For people DESPERATE for the old compose, at least for a little while, it is an option.
Perhaps the NSA had something to do with having Google make this the change. Perhaps it makes something easier for them to read the peoples e-mails while looking for the bad guys. I do not like the system no matter what the reason.
I'm out of Google.
- their whole argument for these changes seems based upon the claim that "people don't send emails anymore" - well yes, a lot of people are texting and sending messages like "LOL" and "CU L8R", but some people might actually NEED to compose an actual message or send real information or attachments to business associates or customers. Google probably doesn't realize this but most companies still use their FAX machines; it is simple, old technology - but it does the job it was intended to do and it works.
People don't need to be trained to use a tiny little chat box window and write shorter emails, Google needs to facilitate the needs of its users or get out of the email business.
If a product is flawed and your users are clamoring for you to fix it, how is "you should have complained before" an appropriate answer? How is it respectful? And yet that is all I am getting from Google: arrogance and a refusal to hear what is essentially free marketing information that they would usually pay a lot of money to get.
Second, you keep throwing in my face that I should have complained before. I did. I keep telling you I did, yet you keep ignoring what I tell you. THAT, if I didn't realize there are so many posts you read and you can't possibly remember them all, could be considered disrespectful.
Never mind that many of the people complaining now have been complaining then, and were ignored like I was.
Finally, you keep asking for ideas to make the new Compose better. We keep telling you: make it like the old Compose. How is that not a suggestion? The fact that google engineers are refusing to admit they could possibly be human and have made a mistake doesn't make the suggestions I, and many others, are making less of a suggestion.
- To BCC, I have to click on the header and then click on BCC. Two clicks TOO MANY.
- To do any formatting, I have to mouse away from where I'm type to the bottom Compose box. I have a 30" drag. This is a lot of mousing effort. I consider a Compose box a GUI word processor. I've never use a GUI word processor that puts formatting at the bottom of the writing area. TOO MANY mouse movement here.
- Previously, I attach an image file by dragging it to the header. Now, if I do the same. It won't work. I have to drop it in the formatting area/footer. As I drag the file to the footer, it passes through the Compose box. The Compose box then says "Drop files here". If I do, it inserts it as inline image - it is not a new behaviour, but that "Drop files here" is misleading. It causes me to drop the image file in the Compose box, only to find it inserted as inline image and not as an attachment. So, I have to remove it and re-do the entire process. By the way, it wasn't totally obvious that I can drag files to the footer area. I lose track how many mouse clicks and mouse movement there!
- It wasn't obvious how to edit the subject. I had to ask someone later on.. I suppose I can google it. But, it should have been a simple task without asking anyone/googling about it. I didn't have to for Outlook, Thunderbird, or Mail.
- To Pop out reply, I have to do 2 mouse clicks. I consider this 1 click TOO MANY.
- To Pop out reply full-screen, I have to do 3 mouse click, the last click being further away. I consider this 1 click TOO MANY and just to far out
- Full-screen = madness!! I need it to pop out to a window, because I often need to look at other email messages when composing a reply. Now it just a lightbox. #MAD!
I started exploring other email clients... maybe Airmail....
Which begs the question: if Google realizes its users don't like change, why did they feel compelled to change a product that delighted most of its users (I know it did me)?!!!
As this forum requests constructive criticism and suggestions, that was my intention. We are creative individuals with a wide variety of work habits and needs. Forcing us to function in the lowest possible common denominator raises philosophical questions that trouble me deeply. I will write elsewhere about that as I have about Tabs and the new compose.
Google is listening. Can they 1) hear what we are saying and will they 2) implement our positive suggestions for an improved interface are different questions.
OK we understand we 'can't go back'. I'm not talking about going back. I'm talking about incorporating options and making this swiftly sinking boat sail again before we all drown (or jump ship, as many are already doing).
I remain positive for shift+reply and various other improvements - show fields, options for show/hide formatting & where to place the formatting bar etc) I and others have suggested in the past week.
ps someone needs to fix the slowness/jitter, it's really difficult to type now. could it be that all the code needed to 'hide' and 'show' fields, on and off, over and over, is slowing the whole thing down? why not just show all the fields (as we've been asking) and see if that speeds things up again. Just a thought.
Saying "we hate the new Compose" IS "valuable feedback". it tell you to are antagonizing people you need for your business by downgrading their experience.
It should have been received by Google with alarm instead of "you should have complained before - now there is no turning back."
If Gmail thinks there weren't enough people complaining back then, in the early stages, I am sure they are not taking into consideration all those who posted their suggestions, never got feedback and simply reverted to the Old Compose.
Now we are being told since we didn't say anything earlier, it's too late?
wow.
"This thread has become more about making personal comments and insulting everyone rather than constructive criticism."
1. It forced me to link my gmail to my youtube account. (I have very good security reasons for not having them linked. Doesn't matter to Google.) Now I rarely use Youtube.
2. When I bought my first Android phone last year, I made the mistake of linking it to my gmail account. I immediately got 1,000 contacts on my phone [because I have not been deleting much mail on gmail.] Google provided me with no way to delink the email account from my Android phone, so the only way I could get rid of all of the extraneous contacts was to reset the phone.
3. Now gmail standard is trying to turn me into a teenager by making sure that gmail is only used for short messages and can't be used for serious email. I have reverted to gmail html, which is tolerable for the short-term.
I have been thinking of upgrading my Android phone and Android tablet. However, in upgrading, I have to now ask myself what crazy functions will Google add to the Android operating system to disable real functionality and make it more compatible with teenage texting. Unless Google admits its mistake and restores functionality to gmail, I can't see myself buying other Android devices.
Also, C-Man commented several days ago about one survey that showed people liking the new Compose box. I doubt that it is accurate or a fair survey. I have been following Windows 8 closely (hate it because it adds nothing useful to justify the time that has to be wasted to learn the system). Much like Compose, Windows 8 is roundly hated. However, in virtually every article followed by comments there are defenders of Windows 8. (Maybe 10 to 20%). On the other hand, the new gtext is virtually unanimously hated in comments. If Google has any concerns for its users, it might consider that its new Compose has plumbed the depths of unpopularity among computer features.
Also, about 6-12 months ago, the New York Times changed its comment box feature to make it more similar to teenage texting (only about 1/4th of a comment was shown, and readers had to click to see the full comment. This "feature" had the effect of making it very difficult to scan comments. At least the NYT had enough sense to change the feature at the end of the first day.) If the NYT can admit a mistake, so can Google.
Sorry to see Google deteriorate so rapidly. It used to be an admired company. The old gmail was a great innovation. Sorry to see it gutted.
PS I posted this elsewhere not knowing how the reply button worked on this thread. [Used post a question, instead of reply] Sorry for the duplication.
A full-screen option to the new compose.
An expanded formatting menu in the pop-out compose window
The ability to click-and-drag image attachments into your compose window
"I don't want to make an argument of it, but change and learning is a fact of life. I also couldn't argue that Gmail's changes were a good thing, but like any other change we'll eventually manage and forget what the past was like."
I just took their pictures for memory's sake.
As much as I hate IE, I think I'll roll back to IE8 on my host computer and use it JUST for Gmail! I could live with that! I use Firefox for everything else!
The reason why they DON'T want to keep the classic interface is that they want to streamline everything into one fits all look.
Essentially this smacks of laziness to maintain a proper web based interface and a mobile/compact alternative.
So it is to save space on SMALL devices. I have plenty of room on my 24" screens.
The compose window, regardless of how I use it, it slow acting in all points and it is indeed ugly.
Why did Google have to change a good thing. I am a small business owner and I always converted clients to gmail but I will not be doing so any longer.
I can't move quickly in gmail anymore. It is quite frustrating.
The problem is not that we all refuse to adapt to new things or aren't willing to take the time to learn new processes.
The problem is that, as far as i can tell at least, the new compose adds absolutely nothing that is new and useful. Instead it decreases both usability and aesthetics. i.e. it looks ugly and it doesn't work well. Again, IMHO.
If one is going to have to spend time learning how to use a new interface one might as well invest that time learning an interface that is more attractive and more useful.
Personally i am currently investing that time into re-learning the old HTML Gmail. When what is now the old compose first came out i was willing to learn how to use that, because it offered definite advantages over the old HTML version. It looked better and it worked better. However new compose looks worse and functions worse than both old compose and HTML compose. (For my uses. I don't use multiple email accounts at the same time and i don't normally use formatting. For those for whom those functions are the prime concern obviously the HTML version won't meet their needs.) The HTML version may be a step back, but it's not as big a step back as the new compose.
If i didn't have so much invested in Gmail already i would seriously consider just moving to another mail server. I'm certainly considering divesting my email interests now. I've already opened up a new Yahoo account just in case, and i've been using Alpine to access an alternate account for a long time so i've got a little bit of experience with setting up IMAP and will probably start looking into Thunderbird and other alternate clients.
My only suggestion to Google is to provide an opt out.
Why is Google going backwards? | PC Pro blog
"....And then there’s Gmail itself, which recently gained a tabbed inbox that has proved, to put it mildly, controversial. That too is optional at present, but what’s not optional is the new Compose Mail interface that, by default, hides the text of the email you’re responding, as well as commonly used fields and buttons. It’s such a shocking step backwards in usability that an unofficial Twitter account has been set up for disgruntled users to share their frustration."
Read more:
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2013/08/21/why-is-google-going-backwards/
Bottom line is gmail was good and good for my business. Now it is just a pain to use. :(
I'm actually going to go so far as to say that we are, as of August 13, witnessing the beginning of the demise of Google. In a year from now, if Google continues as it is, it will either be a shell of its former self (more likely due to the money they control) or they will cease to exist (like the examples here).
I'm also annoyed at the new bug it introduces: the "Email tasks list" option on the Actions menu of the pop-out Tasks window opens up a Compose window w/ the list name in the subject and a blank body. Workaround: select print, ctrl A to select all, ctrl c to copy, open up a compose window, ctrl v to paste. I guess I should post this separately -- will do next.
I cant seem to find a way to disable it and return to the classic view.
Going back to Yahoo!
Not good thinking, bro.
And as far as I can tell someone is removing all the negative tweets at Jason Cornhole's page
Speaking of him thanks to Google search:
Below is how to contact the idiot that
thinks a simple-looking screen makes
things easier, when in reality it only
makes sending email much more difficult.
It was his decision to torment users.
If you want it to change, make his life
miserable. Lots of nasty, unkind
comments on his Twitter or Facebook
*might* wake him up:
https://twitter.com/jasoncornwell
https://www.facebook.com/jasoncornwell
https://plus.google.com/118336139840053353940
By the way, you are not alone:
http://mind.sh/are/news/no-one-likes-the-new-gmail-compose/
http://dilbert.com/mashups/comic/194395/
http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/google-compose.html
http://imgur.com/SrjLIxt
http://imgur.com/lrBtYdN
http://tinyurl.com/Dumb-Compose
http://www.kimmoa.se/Google_is_more_evil_than_Microsoft_ever_was/
Petitions:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/128/981/668/google-gmail-please-go-back-to-the-old-version-of-compose-email/
https://www.change.org/petitions/google-change-gmail-back
How to switch from Google:
http://lifehacker.com/5876794/going-google+free-the-best-alternatives-to-google-services-on-the-web
http://www.google.com/search?q=switch+away+from+(Google+OR+GMail)
Personal Information about Jason Briggs Cornwell:
Age: 34
Birthdate: 3/**/1979
Lives here:
628 8th Avenue, Menlo Park, CA 94025
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&gbv=2&q=628+8th+Avenue,+Menlo+Park,+CA
Sale Price: $480,000
Date: April 20, 2012
Seller Name: (Trustee) US Bank
Buyer Name: Jason Briggs Cornwell, Emily Wimberley Cornwell
Thinks he is a friggin' genius concerning
computer user interfaces:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jason-cornwell/3/1ab/a70?trk=pub-pbmap
Married to:
Emily (Ann) Wimberley Cornwell, 31
Email: emily.c...@stanford.edu
Phone: 650-725-1961
Marketing and Audience development manager
Emily Cornwell joined Stanford Lively Arts in 2008 as the
Marketing and Audience Development Manager. With a varied
background as a performer, teacher, and nonprofit manager,
Emily translates her passion for the arts into creating
effective solutions for the issues faced by arts organizations.
She has worked for small and large arts organizations in
marketing, development, and management of technology projects,
including the design and construction of new patron databases.
Most recently, Emily was the General Manager at Vivace Youth
Chorus of San Jose and a contributing writer and research
analyst for Idealware.org Before moving to California,
Ms. Cornwell spent several years as a market researcher at
the University of Pennsylvania. In this role she was
instrumental in the design and analysis of the Arts &
Culture Census, a wide reaching project to gather and
analyze information about the arts behaviors and attitudes
of Penn alumni. Emily holds a Bachelors of Music Education
from the University of Delaware, where she studied vocal
music and choral conducting, and a Masters of Arts Management
from Carnegie Mellon University.
https://plus.google.com/114917814964088880772#114917814964088880772/posts
Previously lived:
Mountain View, CA
San Francisco, CA
Menlo Park, CA
Wilmington, DE
Chestertown, MD
Related to:
Bernadette H. Wimberley, 67
Randall W. Wimberley
Esther Wimberley
Laura Healy Wimberley, 34
Father:
James P Cornwell
Age: 66
Birthday: 7/**/1947
Address: Narberth, PA 19072-2218
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&gbv=2&q=Narberth,+PA+19072-2218
Employer: Metro Architects LLC
114 Forrest Ave
Narberth, PA 19072
http://MetroArchs.com
610-664-2204
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&gbv=2&q=114+Forrest+Ave+Narberth+PA
$1000 to OBAMA FOR AMERICA on 09/22/08
Mother:
Katharine K. (Kate)...
You posted 20 times in this month and nothing previously unless you were using another account. I don't have to remember because your activity page shows all. https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!profile/gmail/APn2wQeQ3eGoyc9L4uJpF5VOPZTiE0A1ZTjK0pI2J7AztsTrzPzh6izNQKlcG5CKBmqhesDauaaU
You found the forum in April when it became apparent the new iteration was not going away. Others could have done so and I reckon a lot more will just put up with what they have been given because there are never enough who complain in the correct way.
I have the utmost respect for somebody who will make one complaint and not wear out a keyboard when it is too late accusing everybody of making the change without consulting them personally. You fall into that category.
Now this time has come and voila, it is still the same nonworking crap that it was the first time. The only option for me now is to switch to HTML view which gives me eye sore and is wholly unproductive.
Good job at making steps backwards.
IMHO, Gmail has been overrun by a pack of fools who are egoistic and haven't got the slightest clue how users actually interact with Gmail in real life, rather than the protected world of Google labs.
After using the new Reply/Compost garbage for a few days, I don't see a single redeeming feature or improvement over the previous version. I also note that this particular version, which was unceremoniously dumped on users, didn't get a "trial run" period, unlike the previous, equally pathetic attempt.
To the Google employees who supposedly read these groups, I've done plenty of s/w design, including quite a few very unusual GUIs for several different business domains. In many years of s/w dev, I've never seen such poor quality of UI design. That includes Gmail, Youtube, these hallowed fora, etc. When the "new look" was rolled out, I pointed out several things that wouldn't sit well with users and they didn't. We had idiots like Alex Gawley defending those stupid choices. Some of these were changed. Others, like those stupid disappearing buttons and scrollbars, still remain. There's a long list of items that indicates the so-called "UX designers" are clueless when it comes to understanding how users actually interact with these products AND that usability testing at Google has holes large enough for a luxury cruise liner to sail through without a scratch.
Now, if you TRULY want to know how users feel about these abysmal changes to Gmail UI, there two very simple things you can do.
1) Give users the option to revert to the old UI and see how many willingly stay with the new garbage.
2) Put up a survey that candidly measures exactly what users don't like about this new UI (including the crappy "new look") AND have the guts to publish the results.
That idiot Jason Cornwell (imho, of course), apart from coming across as an egoistic fool (I refer to that interview in which he said he wanted to give us mere users "permission" to write small emails), claims all the changes were data driven. Really? Show us the data and please explain how it was collected.
Both my 75 y.o. Dad & 13 y.o. son didn't know they could opt out of the stupid new Compost when that choice was available. When they found out, both asked me to help them go back to the old Compose, and both were quite vocal about their dislike for the new UI. There's a wide range of ages for you.
Oh yes, and *IF* Lord Cornwell has the guts (I'm willing to bet he doesn't), ask him to show up on this thread and answer users' concerns himself, rather than putting you in the line of fire, while he massages his ego in the confines of a comfy office somewhere!
BTW, did I say I don't like the new Reply/Compose even a little bit?
So are you just ignoring that possibility when you accuse of us of not speaking up soon enough? Or are you saying that Google just ignores that kind of feedback and we should have posted in the forums instead? But in that case if they just ignore the other kind of feedback why should we believe that speaking up here in the forums would work any better?
Though really, i keep speaking up about problems in the hopes that they'll get solved and nothing is ever done about it. My Nexus One still randomly reboots if i connect to the 3G network, there's still no way to turn off search highlighting in Gmail, and they still haven't brought back the ability to search for saved locations in Google maps. Why should problems with the new compose be treated any differently? The idea that Google doesn't care what i have to say shouldn't come as any surprise by this point =P
This new compose has taken functionality away in exchange of features no one asked for.
Give us at least the option to choose freely.
Thanks.
You found the forum in April when it became apparent the new iteration was not going away. Others could have done so and I reckon a lot more will just put up with what they have been given because there are never enough who complain in the correct way.
I have the utmost respect for somebody who will make one complaint and not wear out a keyboard when it is too late accusing everybody of making the change without consulting them personally. You fall into that category.
I didn't know about this board until a few days ago and probably wouldn't be able to find it again if I lost the reference... As I said, Google seems to go out of its way not to get feedback.
On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 6:59:19 PM UTC-4, amol.c.khedkar wrote:That idiot Jason Cornwell (imho, of course), apart from coming across as an egoistic fool (I refer to that interview in which he said he wanted to give us mere users "permission" to write small emails), claims all the changes were data driven. Really? Show us the data and please explain how it was collected.
Haha, no kidding. Many users have complained to him on Twitter and he is as oblivious as a chicken about to be turned into the evening meal. Here's his Twitter activity for the evening (my comments in brackets).
"im speaking to jamie on skype atm so much good news that has put my worries away : D" (until someone turns around and fires you, perhaps)
"It's the same old story, these trained professionals are given far more leeway to fail and bungle with sometimes lethal results." (like you?)
"Ordering a pizza for the kids im babysitting #Swag"
"Monitoring, Evaluation & Reporting Consultant, UNDP Support to Afghanistan's Peace and Reintegration Program..."
"Attempting web design. This should be interesting." (yes, what you've already attempted proves you can't do it)
"There is no room at this school. There is no room on the buses #help"
"Money on my mind...so i got to get on the grind"
And an interesting exchange:
@serials1: "Is your plan to just ignore the new compose backlash and hope it goes away?" (yes)
@jasoncornwall: "no, we'll continue to listen to feedback and improve it" (then turn the damn thing off and give me back the "old" interface)
@rosiedoes: "The only way you'll improve it is by switching it off. Been with Gmail since beta, now looking to leave. Failure." (I echo this opinion and longevity with Gmail)
Don't I wish I could roll the clock back?
As for your Dad I can understand it but not your son. The average 13 year old can find his way around a computer far better than anybody even approaching middle age. My sons were programming at that age and the youngest is now 38. They did it naturally.
So you found a back door to the forum but not until you were forced to because you needed to complain. Save you losing your way again try using the front door Gmail Group and remember to create a shortcut back to it. If you need help creating a short cut please come back.
I wonder why he wastes time posting on a rival web site when he could be here. I'll ask in October.
I'm going to ask you the same question you asked Sreeram:
"But, why don't you, in turn, provide helpful information about the new compose instead of just telling us that we're wrong with the way we're participating?"
You have reached Level 6 and I have no doubt have seen more than enough help suggestions to know how to help others but you haven't. The primary reasons for the forums is to help others. Take a lesson from Amol or MBaltozer who will fight what they sees as wrong but will still step in to give help as well. Perhaps, by the time the next iteration of Gmail rolls out, you will have earned the hated TC level and will be a self appointed target for everybody who wants to throw bricks.
In one of the replies,I have shared a link to a blog, which, was shared by icantchooseone in the previous part of the thread ('best answer'). I shared it because the reasons I have, were also the reasons the blog described about how or why the new compose is better.
The TCs are NOT Google employees; they are doing their best to help folks posting here, but they are not the people who have made the decisions that got us to this point and they are not the people who will make the decisions about what happens next.
Look at it from an observers viewpoint. It's like turning off the lights during the day time. It's not necessary but you know you can turn it back on when you need to. The observer knows that as well. Same here. You look at it and know it will be there when you need it but you are more comfortable with the other version for the moment so you carry on with it. Does the observer know that means you don't like it unless you say something?
I tested the new version when it first came out and realised my biggest problems at the time were the chat box sized compose box and the lack of the formatting tools. I did not use the new iteration until that was changed but I made my feeling known to Google. When did you realise you weren't going to use the new version and start complaining about it?
But so far, you have provided nothing useful to the conversation.
First you tell us that the new compose is better without providing any explanation or description of how or why it is better.
In one of the replies,I have shared a link to a blog, which, was shared by icantchooseone in the previous part of the thread ('best answer'). I shared it because the reasons I have, were also the reasons the blog described about how or why the new compose is better.
when requested to provide more information, fail to do so.
Then you pop back in and exaggerate what has been happening in terms of personal comments and insults.
The TCs are NOT Google employees; they are doing their best to help folks posting here, but they are not the people who have made the decisions that got us to this point and they are not the people who will make the decisions about what happens next.
But, why don't you, in turn, provide helpful information about the new compose instead of just telling us that we're wrong with the way we're participating?
First of all, thank you for trying to help. It's very kind of you.
I do not think your analogy is pertinent though. If I were in business and I saw people immediately choose not to use the new version of my product, I'd wonder
1) if there is a need for a new version at all.
2) If the new version isn't flawed in some way that I didn't foresee and I'd make giving feedback easier.
It's frankly what should have happened.
I tested the new version when it first came out and realised my biggest problems at the time were the chat box sized compose box and the lack of the formatting tools. I did not use the new iteration until that was changed but I made my feeling known to Google. When did you realise you weren't going to use the new version and start complaining about it?
I'm guessing you didn't really look at the new version until you were forced to. Not until then did you find out how bad it was. That would account for at least two thirds of the new complainers.
It would also prove my point.
I sent in feedback when they first instituted the change when it was optional. And then i turned it off. I hated it then and i hate it now. There is nothing that I think will make this better aside from a full reversal back to the old way compose used to work. And I know I am not alone in this way of thinking.
I have set my accounts to forward my mail elsewhere until I get around to notifying the senders of my new mail address. Outlook is looking better every day.
I did run a business and I once brought in a new system that I thought would help the staff do their jobs more easily. After three months only one staff member was using it and only intermittently at that. I scrapped the idea only to have more than half the staff ask why it had been scrapped. I answered "Because nobody was using it" to get the comment "but I was just about to switch. It looked so much better".
I opened the system up again and 24 hours later everybody was using it. My staff were more relaxed once the initial settling in time was over and I gained in the speed everything was done.
I'm guessing you didn't really look at the new version until you were forced to. Not until then did you find out how bad it was. That would account for at least two thirds of the new complainers.
>On Thursday, 22 August 2013 12:04:11 UTC+10, Mike_B_ wrote:
> This entire discussion is pointless. The silence from google is deafening. >They likely have no intention of reverting this monstrosity nor giving us the >option to turn it off.
I fear you're right.
There was a linked article yesterday outlining how to use the new format. It finished by suggesting that this redesign would allow gmail to become integrated within their other apps - drive/calendar/plus etc.
Would mean that you could send email from a popup without having to return to the dedicated gmail site. Email becomes like a generic addon service to all the other web app offerings.
If that is so, it doesnt make me like any of changes but at least it makes a perverse kind of sense. It would also suggest that if its part of a larger integration plan there's small chance of going back.
Viewed in isolation this change replaces a simple intuitive process with obtuse and confusing one. It requires more effort and clicks to achieve the same result with no new benefit.
Its a major disappointment and should be rethought.
THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, AND I MEAN NOTHING, WRONG WITH THE OLD COMPOSE WINDOW, WHY DID YOU COMPLETELY REVAMP IT AND FORCE USERS TO CHANGE TO IT WITHOUT GIVING THEM THE OPTION TO PERMANENTLY STICK WITH THE OLD FORMAT?!
From a business stand point, I do not see how Google paid developers for research and development for something that had nothing wrong with it and had no complaints. Instead of using your money to develop new services (that you won't just turn off years later such as the popular and favorite Google Reader) you spend money on shutting down services and redesigning ones that are not broken.
1) Give users the option to revert to the old UI and see how many willingly stay with the new garbage.
I doubt you'd get too many complaints if the new Compose was scrapped, but it looks like we'll never know.
Meanwhile, I am still at a loss why both options can't be offered. After all, they were for months before.
On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 8:23:00 PM UTC-4, The C Man (Elder Advisor - Mobile Laureate) wrote:Cyclone,
I wonder why he wastes time posting on a rival web site when he could be here. I'll ask in October.
On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:59:19 PM UTC-7, amol.c.khedkar wrote:1) Give users the option to revert to the old UI and see how many willingly stay with the new garbage.
Second, the "Give Feedback" button on my account doesn't go anywhere. It is completely inactive. Other people do not have feedback buttons. Many of the gmail users I've spoken with in person over the past few days have said to me "forum; what forum?" They have no idea HOW to provide feedback -- because feedback is not exactly a front and center option. Like many of the most important features used for writing email in new compose, it is hard to find.
Please do not blame the victims for not protesting enough.
If Gmail means to demonstrate that its only important users are those who write short, unformatted messages, because they are part of the main metric, and that others will be forsaken, then it has done a fine job of communicating. Our messages may not be easy to send via Gmail, but we get Gmail's message to thoughtful and/or professional gmail users loud and clear.
In one of the replies,I have shared a link to a blog, which, was shared by icantchooseone in the previous part of the thread ('best answer'). I shared it because the reasons I have, were also the reasons the blog described about how or why the new compose is better.
I am sorry if it was a request. It felt more like a sarcasm. Sorry about that.
Can you please point me to the post where I have insulted or made personal comments on someone? If I have, I shall apologise and edit it, but as far as I know, I have not insulted anyone.
Like I said, I will try and participate more. I did say that there are few valuable feedback posts, but frankly,I don't know how to reply to posts which only have 'I HATE NEW COMPOSE!' or "BRING BACK THE OLD COMPOSE!'.
This is a f-ing horrible user experience. I have been putting it off for months, but am stuck with it now. I hate gmail- a program I have loved and recommended since 2004.
I think this is designed to make Chromebook look good, but some of us don't do fullscreen browser all of the time.
Who ever it was that greenlighted this change should be fired by now.
They already did that, and they know the results. The experiment ran for several months. Based on the results, I would expect that most people transitioned to the new format.(Informally, most of the people I know in real life stayed with it and liked it. I was not fond of it at first, primarily because of the small size, but once I got over the shock, I was pleased with how I could integrate it into my workflow. It can be improved, but it not that different, especially when replying.)
I would like to see Google repost the the new Compose introduction announcement as a Gmail login splash screen for every account, and this time, include a "Don't want it!" button beside the "Got It!" button. Trapping the replies to the button clicks would send a clear and quantitative signal about how people feel about it.
It would probably have to re-worded a bit, something like "We've made it so everyone has had to use the new Compose for 2 weeks. Now, please tell us which you prefer, the old or new Compose, and why"
It could go further, and list the top 10 complaints that have been accumulated as selectable options for those that don't want it. Similarly, it could list the top 10 reasons why people like the new Compose better. (Ok, that might be a hard list, since I haven't seen a lot of people posting those.)
We would have to trust that Google would post the results without fiddling them, and then if the response is as overwhelming negative as many here think it is, then they have to answer the hard question about why they really need to do this.
The negative replies would also give them the prioritized list of the features/bugs/gaffs that drive people really batty about the new product.
On Thursday, August 22, 2013 12:39:57 AM UTC-4, Bruce Blair wrote:I doubt we would get honest answers from them. Somehow they would fiddle with the number to get the answer that they want rather than that we actually want.
> We would have to trust that Google would post the results without fiddling them, and then if the response is as overwhelming negative as many here think it is, then they have to answer the hard question about why they really need to do this.
>
> The negative replies would also give them the prioritized list of the features/bugs/gaffs that drive people really batty about the new product.
Something that might work though would be a 3rd party online poll. of course we would have to get a link to this poll to every gmail user. Also setting up a reply box on this poll asking those that do vote to explain why they do or do not like it. And when I mean they would need to explain why they do I donot mean for them to reply to it with "i like it". Because that is the only reply we have seen from those on this forum that do like it. We want specifics as to why you seem to like it and how you see it as being better. The same would go for negative replies as well but there is no real need to specify that here as nobody seems to have an issue explaining why they do no like this new compost.
On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:11:48 PM UTC-7, Annie306 wrote:How many of those people transitioned to it because they couldn't figure out how NOT to transition to it?
So far, none of the people who say they like it better really explain WHY or exactly what it is that they find better. You say that most people you know like it and that you yourself are "pleased with how I could integrate it into my workflow". Maybe I'm just dense but I have no idea what that means.
It's not about who should have/could have said something in the past. The past is gone. Finished. Let it go. Whatever 'mistakes' were made, feedback given, blame tossed about, will either be learned from, or it won't. There's no time now for blame, shame or negativity.
It's what can we do NOW.
Part of NOW is 1) recovering from the present disaster (ie people can not work, people are severely stressed) and 2) preventing future disasters.
Preventing future disasters would yes, include clearly defined methods and pathways for Google to directly receive feedback and a transparent method for contributors to confirm their feedback has been received. It would also include transparent and clear pathways for debate and intelligent discourse, with viewable results and drawn conclusions.
Recovering from the disaster, from any disaster, means working with the local community. We have learned that loud and clear, plain and simple, over and over again, post 9/11, Katrina, Sandy. I was on the ground here after 9/11 and, among other things, continue to work with the extended 9/11 community, if anyone wants to talk disaster recovery.
The local community in this forum has contributed an incredible amount of feedback - all to be highly valued for the time, energy, concern and passion of the contributors. For people to feel and contribute this much, in so many ways, means something valuable, something useful, has been taken away. That MUST be acknowledged.
Let's be frank. The current email format is a disaster. As debilitating and has interruped as much creative work as any other disaster I can recall. I'd be curious to know how many collective work hours have been lost in the past week.
My questions:
1) How do we recover? how do we return people to work, how do we reduce stress induced by the new format? I think the answer to that has been iterated multiple times in this forum, including my own posts, but I'm happy to recap if necessary (and I'm sure others are too): We need a functional email - including moveable screens for compose/reply, subject/to/from/cc/quoted text to be consistently viewable, formatting/attachements/send at the top. Without these adjustments, the current version is not functional.
2) How can we prevent future disasters? (see above).
PS: In almost every interaction it takes a lot more energy and effort to 'hide' than to be open. Why not try being open? show the hidden fields and let indviduals decide whether to show subject/to/from/cc/formatting or not. Strikes me, confirmed by feedback here, that most people want to see those important details. I can't help but wonder if the coding required to hide various fields is (at least partially) causing the slowness and jitter we're now experiencing.
That said, it was interesting that two people in totally different age groups agreed upon one thing - neither one wanted to use the new Compose!
I believe Google's usability testing is badly flawed (I've posted about that extensively before) and I don't believe that they're "data driven". The quality of the data is heavily dependent upon the methodology used to collect it.
After reading Jason Cornwell's asinine and egoistic comments ("We wanted to give users permission to write small emails"), I believe the Gmail team is more ego driven than anything else.
I am not happy with the new compose because it is not practical anymore.
-Although there are the pop-out and full-screen features, it made one-click tasks into few click tasks.
-When replying a message it is not practical to first "pop out" through the arrow and then pass to full screen from corner.
- it is nicer to have formatting options, spell check and other utilities without clicks as icon at hte top or bottom without producing more clicks to reach them.
-It is always nicer to have biggest area on screen possible with the formatting icons.
I hope these can be sorted out.
Please let us have the older compose back, where we could format text and see everything.This new compose has taken functionality away in exchange of features no one asked for.
Give us at least the option to choose freely.
On Thursday, 22 August 2013 19:43:57 UTC+10, Lisa Swift wrote:I'm repeating others, but hiding the subject in the reply is causing us serious problems, especially when forwarding, which working in a collaborative organisation happens a lot. We keep sending email with unhelpful subjects.
On Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:45:41 AM UTC-4, KeithR wrote:The old features are now hidden behind multiple clicks or a horrid amount of keyboards shortcuts. This is not an improvement. What "new" features is everyone seeing?Because I tell you the only thing "new" I see is that my compose is no longer an email compose but a chat compose. I see that now I cannot clearly see who I am sending emails to. I see that the original reply methods have been removed and are now more difficult tobe sure you actually replying to who you intend.
> Andres, the new copmpose is not missing one single feature. All the old features are still available along with a few new ones.
>
Nobody is asking for "all" the possible options. We are asking that our email compose be just that. An email compose. NOT a chat. We want our options clearly in sight NOT hidden behind a redundant amount of mouse clicks or keyboard shortcuts.
> No software gives all the options everybody wants. That is impossible by definition. Web applications are by nature even less configurable.
>
WE WANT EMAIL NOT CHAT!!!
I beg to differ with your comment, KeithR. Attached is a screenshot of
an email ready to be forwarded - note the subject line is shown AND
STAYS PUT. You can see it here, using the old compose ... you cannot "scroll it out of view"
Using new compose - why is the subject hidden??
We spend more clicks in EVERY action that we want to perform.
Also, please, enlighten us with the benefits that we don't see when it takes us a lot more frustrating time to compose an email.
Thank you in advance.
PS. Let me remind you that i am not talking about Google Chat here, but about Google Gmail, which is an EMAIL web application.
i have a question regarding the evaluation of user behavior.
when you came up with the new compose, i am pretty sure the vast majority reverted back to the old one. and never again touched the new compose.
i hope you were able to determine the exact percentage of users.
then you made changes to the new compose to improve it. but nobody gave a s**t, because they were not missing anything with the old compose. so you had to force the new compose upon use, so we give it a testrun again.
okay, we did. can we now please revert to the old one again?
If you see a majority or at least a big part of your users revert to the old one, maybe it would be wise to keep them both running simultaniously like you did the last months.
Thanks
Pankaj Rai
8288045605
U just have to click where the addresses are then press ctrl+A to select all then ctrl+c ctrl+v.... it place like the old way.
Hope it helps
have a look at http://gmail-tips.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/changes-to-gmail-compose.html it explains in detail how the new compose works.
On Thursday, August 22, 2013 8:46:02 AM UTC-4, icantchooseone wrote:Constantly telling people it is gone forever is not at all helpful here. Especially seeing as we have yet to hear any word from someone that actually works for google.
> sorry its gone forever
>
>
> have a look at http://gmail-tips.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/changes-to-gmail-compose.html it explains in detail how the new compose works.
>
>
> More advanced instructions: http://gmail-miscellany.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/new-compose-without-tears-for-serious.html
>
Providing links to explain this complicated mess isn't much of a help either. Nobody should be required to read up on how to do something in an email program they have been using for years. This entire monstrosity needs to go or it needs to be made optional. I would be willing to bet that if they made it optional and did not HIDE the fact that it was option by having a clear out in the open "revert to old" option they would see most users revert to the way things were.
Change is not always a bad thing. But when the change is bad it is bad. And this change is horrendous.
But, if old compose truly is gone forever, then everyone (users and Gmail team) needs to rethink the strategy.
I would stay with Gmail and continue using the "new Compose" if I was allowed the following options:
1. Change the tool bar and all formatting to be at the top, instead of the bottom.
2. Allow text labels to be an option in settings.
3. Allow "sizing" of the "new compose" window and be able to set as a default.
4. Allow the option to hide or not hide (collapse) the To, From, Subject lines.
5. Allow the window/sizing of choice to remain static when changing the subject line or having to break away for a moment.
6. New compose window should not 'gray out' everything behind it.
I am not against change. I am against having change forced down my throat without any apparent options and then being told I am simply a "rounding error" when I voice my complaints.
the post said "On Thursday, August 22, 2013 2:36:46 PM UTC+2, Pankaj Rai wrote:please provide my old compose version"
On Thursday, August 22, 2013 2:51:27 PM UTC+2, Mike_B_ wrote:
On Thursday, August 22, 2013 8:46:02 AM UTC-4, icantchooseone wrote:
> sorry its gone forever
>
>
Constantly telling people it is gone forever is not at all helpful here. Especially seeing as we have yet to hear any word from someone that actually works for google.
I could have swore it didn't earlier. It must have been a fluke that I got to it earlier.
Sorry for the goof. I almost feel like I work for Google now >_<
Okay, look you want us to be constructive? How about all you TCs and other people who keep telling us "old compose is gone forever" just stop?
99.9% of us don't care if you literally revert the code or not, we just want the same functionality we had with old compose. If it's necessary for the old functionality to be added as a subset of the new code that's fine. If at the end of the day we hit a button and the tiny chat-box-compose is replaced by something that looks and acts like the old compose then we don't care whether what is running on the backend is old code or new code.
If you want to respond with "could you please elaborate on what functionality from the old compose you'd like to see carried forward" that's fine. However going through endless iterations of "Tell us what you want." "We want X." "You can't have X. Tell us what you want." is _not_ constructive. It's being obstructive and obstinate. Especially if you're intentionally insisting on a literal interpretation of "we want old compose back" just so you can say "you can't have that" rather than attempting to explain why the features we want can't be implemented.
If there is some fundamental underlying element of the new UI design that makes it totally and completely impossible to incorporate the features of old compose into new compose, then how about you explain exactly what that reason is? (Personally i don't believe there can possibly be such a reason that is actually valid. A good UI design that prevents a significant portion of the users from using the interface effectively is an oxymoron.)
If I am working on different mails I am composing and want at the same time to open several others, it is just a nightmare !!!!!!!
The whole damned thing.
The argument that they have "simplified" anything is nonsense - it is harder to read, harder to use and LESS esthetically pleasing. Why would anyone want to look at a blacked-out unclickable view of their inbox covering 80% of their screen when trying to write an email? Why would anyone NOT want to see the text of their entire email while writing it? Why would anyone not want to see the text of previous messages or know exactly what you are sending when writing an email?
None of this makes any sense at all.
We've already figured out that HTML gmail ("https://mail.google.com/?ui=html" or "https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/h/") lets us use something similar to old compose and Internet Explorer 8 does in fact let us use old compose.
For those for whom the HTML version is missing key functionality and using Internet Explorer 8 is a bit overkill, i've discovered that (for the moment at least) Opera version 12.16.1860 also reverts to old compose. Opera 15 unfortunately uses new compose, and i don't know where the switch happens between 12 and 15. If you have, or can get ahold of, a pre-15 version of Opera then give it a shot. (And let the rest of us know the results if you find a build of 13 or 14 that works with old compose!)
Edit: Sadly i have to take back that last bit. It turns out old compose was only working with Opera 12 because i was logged in with my Google app account, not my normal account. As soon as i logged in with my regular email address compose went back to crap. Sorry to get everyone's hopes up, including my own =/
Of course this makes me wonder if there's some way to switch my regular email to an app account. How long until app and business users get switched over to the new system? It's going to happen fairly soon, right? After all we've been told that "old compose is never coming back" and "we can't maintain two sets of code forever", so by that logic sooner or later it has to go =P
My opinion of Google as a company has really changed now and I suspect the only way to reach them is to cut off their ad hits via using web based email. Use their email through an email client and let's see if that gets their attention.
This is not a petty issue like losing your favourite theme in the change over. This is losing major function and ease of use.
http://blog.jorodrigues.com/2013/08/gmail-under-fire.html
Those are my opinions and gripes on that public blog post. I'm not going to sit here and repeat myself and be told there is nothing I can do. I've done what I can do. Let's see what happens in the future with Google trying to strong arm people.
I design for a living. I've designed many things from Architecture to web pages and there is one rule I live by. When no one notices your design you have succeed. People only really notice bad design and this latest Gmail uproar is a perfect example.
I don't think I can add anything new to what has already been said so I will not. The purpose of this post is different. It is a farewell.
I used to love your UI and have defended it dearly over the years, but I cannot stand the quick chat feel that your new compose gives. It might be age, it might be the lack of professional look that made me ditch Hotmail so long ago (by invitation!) in your favor, it might be a million things.
This is not the first change in your UI that I don't particularly like but it will be the last. As of today, I will forward my email to Yahoo and/or use Thunderbird to access my email account.
It makes me sad to know that I am not the target of your engineering's affections anymore, that we don't like the same things anymore... I feel a bit like an old lady that got a new remote control and who cannot figure out the buttons (...anymore). Then comes the collective eye roll telling me that it is not that hard and who cares.
It is true, my dear gmail, you are not for me anymore.
It was nice while it lasted though.
Maybe, in the future, when the chat fashion fades away, maybe, you will implement the compose back to what it was: full screen and not as a popup window that minimizes like a chat conversation, without grayed out backgrounds and with text labels and tools at the top, without options hidden three clicks away in icon menus and without pre-filled grayish fields, with editable subjects in reply mode and addresses directly displayed instead of only the name...
Until then, my dear gmail, so long, and thanks for all the mail!
If you don't use any tools and don't mind the small compose screen it is, at best, exactly as fast as the old compose.
If you have to change settings, trouble-shoot any unstable reactions with your system, get confused by the bizarre disappearing/clicking behavior of the from/to line, or even just want to use a nested formatting feature it is neither easier or faster.
The old compose had more "one-click" functionality and a more intuitive open layout which allowed for a wider variety of work-flow choices.
It is a step backwards.
Here's another view.
This is your brain: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-D1EPYCDY7_M/UOTXCbVPLXI/AAAAAAAAAA4/yzQWr1uNjgo/s1600/Gmail_1.png
This is your brain on drugs: https://twitter.com/jasoncornwell/status/370589790191628288
On Thursday, August 22, 2013 9:29:36 AM UTC-7, Working Worse wrote:The "easier and faster" claim is entirely false.
If you don't use any tools and don't mind the small compose screen it is, at best, exactly as fast as the old compose.
Let's be real, my gmail account is too well established for me to leave your mail service and you know it. I guess my only retaliation is to stop buying books and music on google and go back to amazon. Congratulations on your new product decision!
I'm also using IE8 so I can avoid the New Compose all together - at least for now! I have too many years invested in Gmail to be making a switch to another email provider. I dislike the others (yahoo, hotmail, outlook) more than I dislike new compose but with IE8 I am fine. lol
On Thursday, August 22, 2013 12:18:56 PM UTC-5, Ben Lilley wrote:I hate the new options and I hate even more that they are forced. The closest thing I can get to my desired functionality is new tab, but I do not need or want yet another tab open.Let's be real, my gmail account is too well established for me to leave your mail service and you know it. I guess my only retaliation is to stop buying books and music on google and go back to amazon. Congratulations on your new product decision!
"After learning a few keyboard shortcuts, it is actually easier and faster than the old one. "
A laughable claim. Considering that, as Ben points out, the best thing we can get is a new tab, and it's still only halfway useful, it is in fact NOT faster.
SLOWER: "Compose" does not give me the new tab I want. I get full screen, then have to mouse to the pop-out arrow and hit Ctrl. That's +1 step (extra click) and involves swinging the mouse across the screen to get there.
SLOWER: "Reply" is even worse, only giving the lame tiny box. So I have to pop that out, then I have to click the pop-out arrow again because I can't get it to go to new tab with Ctrl from the smaller interface... only from "full screen" which is really more like "1/3 screen." That's +2 steps (+2 clicks) and involves meandering all over the screen with the mouse to accomplish what previously took a single click.
SLOWER: Trying to find anything on the menus. They're in the wrong place (bottom not top), use too many icons instead of text (old compose had "Attach a file" not the stupid paper clip, and there used to be a "Discard" button instead of the stupid trash can -- some of us have the "Use Text Buttons Instead of Icons" turn on for a reason)
SLOWER: An extra click to bring up the Formatting Options tools that used to just be right there on the page.
SLOWER: A send button on the ... bottom left? This is an inconvenient and insane place to put it, especially with the menu there.
SLOWER: Finding a bunch of counter-intuitive shortcuts to make this new INFERIOR product even half usable, which is what it is on a good day.
It's slower, less intuitive, and it sucks, and the implementation of New Compose is so incomprehensibly stupid and awful that it has made me anti-Google. If you want to improve the current experience, you can tell them exactly where I think they can stick their New Compose (hint: it's a warm, moist, dark place). They are of course welcome to fix everything I just addressed, but if they did, you'd pretty much have what we had in the first place and were actually happy with, not the current train wreck.
-Not seeing the To/Cc/Bcc lines all the time is annoying, especially since the screen jumps when I click in and out of the field
-Having the Subject line disappear (and make the screen jump) is annoying
-The management of attachments at the bottom of the body is more difficult than seeing them with the Recipients and Subject at the top
-Not being able to save and manage 2+ forwards or replies as drafts is a serious loss of functionality
-The Reply/Forward won't default to full screen (I selected the check but there appears to be a bug that prevents it from being the default)
-I have better things to memorize than keyboard shortcuts, please let me pick from a list of options/buttons
In short I still think this change was poorly designed and poorly rolled-out and should be rolled back. I have downloaded all my gmails, and will be looking for another provider despite being a Gmail fan for years.
Bad at decision-making, perhaps, but not evil.
I waste a lot of time with each reply just to be able to format it properly, and I miss not being able to easily highlight part of the original email.
Google "improved" its Google Finance news feed forcing people like me to go to Yahoo Finance for news.
Google is killing iGoogle, forcing people like me to move to myYahoo.
Google is "upgrading" gmail, making people like me check out Yahoo mail as an alternative...
I don't know about you, but I see a pattern appearing.
I am hopeful, too, that Gmail WILL listen to us, and sooner than later, too, please!
check out this new discussion I started this morning:
https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!msg/gmail/FNpFCOHwyxw/IuRmKM35JrUJ
That is how you lose market share. Google introduced a product that is not going to help them gain more users (at least i don't see how), and is generating a huge amount of badwill with a significant number of their users.
Following on the heels of many misteps, you can already see how such a thought pattern is hurting Google by the new statistics showing Yahoo is now ahead of google in traffic.
Personally, while I haven't found a way to switch from Gmail and don't want to cut off my nose to spite Google, I have switched my searches to Bing, which is surprisingly user friendly and easy to read (it kind of looks like an older, friendlier google search page).
If the change is going to generate a huge number of new users, then they're right in doing it, but all they've said is "we've improved it for your convenience" and if that's the case, it's always bad business to make your customers (even if they're free users) think seriously about switching.
It just puts in stark contrast the problems of putting people in charge who operate in a vacuum (not just at google but everywhere).
(Don't tell Google...but this is perfectly safe as they seem to be ignoring us on here)
Okay, _what_ exactly is easier, and especially, faster with new compose?It is definitely easier and faster for me and the other power users I know. All of the most common formatting tools now have keyboard shortcuts, and the others are a click away, which is no worse than before.
I just wrote two quick identical test emails in old compose and new compose. One of them took a minute and three seconds, the other took a minute and seven seconds, totally within the margin of error.
I'd certainly believe that if you memorized all the keyboard shortcuts you could do things just as easily and just as quickly as in old compose. However the fact that you need to memorize those shortcuts to accomplish that argues that it the grand scale new compose is just more awkward to use.
If you've got some secret for speeding things up beyond what is possible in old compose then please explain it to us so that there will be at least some justification for what it otherwise a travesty.
Even if it's not "significant" amount, they will have ended up spending money to lose goodwill and market share. That's not what I call good management, especially with a company like Google that is trading on goodwill and has seen it erode quite a bit.
Again, that is probably why they are already slipping behind Yahoo as the New Compose is not the first mis-step but part of a pattern of "upgrades" that fail.
I could be wrong, but I don't think there is such a thing as an insignificant number of customers.
On Thursday, August 22, 2013 2:21:00 PM UTC-4, Level Seven wrote:
> It's the new design Holy Grail. Because of "Mobile" designers think it's great hide as many things as possible, that it's "great design" even though it's less usable.
>
> It just puts in stark contrast the problems of putting people in charge who operate in a vacuum (not just at google but everywhere).
Any "good" Web site and company will maintain two versions of their site; the first being a Web based version (like the old compose) and the other - the default on mobile devices unless they are using a Web browser designed for normal browsing, and usually unseen by normal Web users - is the mobile version. I've seen numerous sites do this successfully. Why can't Google?
On Thursday, August 22, 2013 1:28:26 PM UTC-7, CycloneGU wrote:
On Thursday, August 22, 2013 2:21:00 PM UTC-4, Level Seven wrote:Any "good" Web site and company will maintain two versions of their site; the first being a Web based version (like the old compose) and the other - the default on mobile devices unless they are using a Web browser designed for normal browsing, and usually unseen by normal Web users - is the mobile version. I've seen numerous sites do this successfully. Why can't Google?
The new compose is not missing a single feature? Are you kidding? What about the now hidden sender's name and address (as well as quoted text) when replying?
What about the current impossibility to edit the recipient's address to correct any typing error?
> No software gives all the options everybody wants. That is impossible by definition. Web applications are by nature even less configurable.
Nobody is asking for "all" the possible options. We are asking that our email compose be just that. An email compose. NOT a chat. We want our options clearly in sight NOT hidden behind a redundant amount of mouse clicks or keyboard shortcuts.
Hidden does not equate to missing.
For someone who whips off a two sentence reply it might not matter that the compose is to the side but for someone writing a long e-mail it's very, very, VERY (!) annoying. If you want it in the center of the screen everything else goes grey and you have to click twice on anything.
Really, you couldn't add your "new features" without totally changing everything and making it so un-userfriendly?
The nice thing about your activity page is by clicking on the numeral in any page it will then show you what was posted in that month. I looked at yours for June and found one out of the six I had replied to but there was one that did interest me which seems to have been met half way.
"So, just to be clear, if Google changed the lower right window for me so that it was centered, moveable, larger and/or resizeable, and with important information unhidden (like which of my email addresses is being used as the sending address, etc.), requiring fewer clicks to use if I want to format my email, then I wouldn't need to worry about the autoscrolling in the alternative window"
The option to have it centred was made available as a default. It takes shortcut keys to get the next two options. Your opinion was one of those put forward to back up that request. Give it time and you may get the Good Fairy (not named Jason) to grant the rest of your wishes.
What I meant is that the current trend in web design is to try and copy the worst of Mobile for their web sites (also if you can add the worst of Facebook, it's added fun).
Google had a perfectly fine mail service and keeps downgrading it. We were told they wouldn't ever-ever-ever-ever change it back so the logical thing to do is to offer an alternative.
Obviously, we'd all prefer they scratched the new Compose.
I hope I'm not repeating a reply somebody has already given. If you come through the front door to the Gmail forum one of the slides does give details on what TC's are and do. I think it normally comes up as the fifth.
You would be surprised at the amount of questions in the forum you would be able to answer and even more by searching Google for them (others don't).
Somebody probably posted this before but if you change the default option the formatting tools are there.
The optional expanded Compose window now has the format bar in it and can be made the default. In case you missed how to do the changes here they are:
To edit the subject line click on the curled arrow top left and choose that option.
Does that answer your question?
Those buttons do not even take up more any necessary space. It just made our life more difficult by hiding them!
If you come through the front door to the Gmail forum one of the slides does give details on what TC's are and do. I think it normally comes up as the fifth.
You would be surprised at the amount of questions in the forum you would be able to answer and even more by searching Google for them (others don't).
To find the front door top left is a back arrow. In Gmail it leads to the front door.
A lot of us do check if somebody is new but we normally don't have time for the niceties. If we don't have an answer to the question we go search for it or in my own case (I am a specialist in Blackberry (the only one)) I will probably have to work it out for myself. I can lose an hour easily trying to work something out and worse then that is when you find they did not give you all the details and have to start from scratch again.
Wendy, you're being downright condescending here. You attempted to paint a vision. That's your vision. Not everyone shares it and what's more, it may never come to pass.
I've seen this behavior on your part quite a few times. You'd help all us mere non-TCs a sight more if you kept your sarcastic, useless comments to yourself! Such behavior on your part is unbecoming a TC and merely emphasizes the notion that TCs ride roughshod over the already frustrated users.
Along the lines of your own comment: "I had thought by now you would have learned some common manners. Obviously not!"
0I changed my description a long time back. It's an expanded window and that is all.
I sometimes think I'm the only one to get the appreciation. Most of the TC's and RS's are trying to help. Quite a few don't have English as their native language so they say something and it is taken the wrong way. Sreeram has been attacked for some of his statements and he is not yet a Rising Star but he has great potential. What worries me is if he and others are attacked too often they won't carry on posting.
We have, on average, about 11,000 threads running every month and less than a dozen really active TC's and RS's to cover them. Most of us have full time jobs (mine is keeping my wife and two cats happy but I'm retired) and spend as much of their time as possible here. You have to remember that we may need to post in a thread several times to resolve a problem.
I sometimes think I'm the only one to get the appreciation.
I had to turn off "email updates to me." I have 2 jobs, and 2 cats. My mom has dementia and just under a month ago, my dad broke his ankle. and they have 2 cats. So my hands have been ful needless to say. In fact earlier in the week, I didn't have the "Forums" label/tab set in Gmail - and so each response was coming into my Inbox. And my phone would chirp each time. Drove my mother crazy to say the least.
ITS SLOW...USELESS ....NOT RESPONDING AND OVERALL LOOKS AWKWARD.
NOTHING THAT HELPS OR IMPRESSES ME TO USE IT.
GET BACK TO ORIGINAL VERSION.
PEOPLE ARE LOOSING INTEREST USING GMAIL NOW.
What make and model of phone or have you learned how to stop it making bird calls just for emails?
On Thursday, August 22, 2013 6:09:50 PM UTC-5, The C Man (Elder Advisor - Mobile Laureate) wrote:ronna,
What make and model of phone or have you learned how to stop it making bird calls just for emails?
If you are SHOUTING then it's very rude of you and if you are not your Shift lock needs fixing.
2 things that I think should change or at least be optional.
The BCC and CC shortcuts should be on the left, annoying to have to twitch to the right. And since I use BCC almost every email, maybe an option to force them on all the time would work too.
The shortcuts for links and all that other stuff should show all the time, not just when I mouse down there. It's not like you're saving space as it is a big blank there. If they showed, it would be quicker to mouse straight to the one you wanted.
And that's my 2 cents.
AJ
Can google please give us an option to revert to the old one.
... I would point out that Gmail itself uses the "wrong" terms. On the inbox and message reading pages, we have a button that says: Move to. Notice, please, move to. That may (or may not) be the only practical way to differentiate in just two short words between "labeling and archiving" incoming messages as opposed to simply labeling and leaving them in the inbox, which is done by the next button to the right. It's a practical solution, but it does set up users to think of "moving" messages as opposed to "labeling" them.
the post said "On Thursday, August 22, 2013 2:36:46 PM UTC+2, Pankaj Rai wrote:please provide my old compose version"i answered it
On Thursday, August 22, 2013 2:51:27 PM UTC+2, Mike_B_ wrote:On Thursday, August 22, 2013 8:46:02 AM UTC-4, icantchooseone wrote:
> sorry its gone forever
>
>
Constantly telling people it is gone forever is not at all helpful here. Especially seeing as we have yet to hear any word from someone that actually works for google.
The old Gmail compose experience was clean and efficient. This new experience is CLICK-wait-CLICK-CLICK-wait-CLICK-wait-uggh. How many times do I have to click to (a) get a "full" screen [sort of], (b) add cc, (c) add bcc, (d) read what I'm replying to, (e) check subject line?
I count **5** additional clicks (and associated delays) which are completely unnecessary and add ZERO value. Come on Google. Just when you got it right, you destroyed it.
I'm not sure why Google cannot leave the Classic version in option settings for those that would like to keep it. Please Google, consider it. Apparently there is a large outcry from your userbase regarding this topic.
On Thursday, 22 August 2013 13:50:50 UTC-4, bruce234 wrote:
> It's been a week or more since I was forced into the new compose/reply/forward. The shock has worn off, but I am still of the opinion that the changes have decreased the quality of service.
>
> -Not seeing the To/Cc/Bcc lines all the time is annoying, especially since the screen jumps when I click in and out of the field
> -Having the Subject line disappear (and make the screen jump) is annoying
> -The management of attachments at the bottom of the body is more difficult than seeing them with the Recipients and Subject at the top
> -Not being able to save and manage 2+ forwards or replies as drafts is a serious loss of functionality
> -The Reply/Forward won't default to full screen (I selected the check but there appears to be a bug that prevents it from being the default)
> -I have better things to memorize than keyboard shortcuts, please let me pick from a list of options/buttons
>
> In short I still think this change was poorly designed and poorly rolled-out and should be rolled back. I have downloaded all my gmails, and will be looking for another provider despite being a Gmail fan for years.
Having used Gmail for quite a number of years, (like many of you), and having used Gmail with that (used to be) wonderful App "Mailplane", I am now making plans to move my company and staff away from Gmail.
And here are some of my reasons:
1. Google must monitor this forum and they must have received the message that the new compose UI is cumbersome, slow, unfriendly and not wanted by a great number of their current users.
2. Google have been asked to do a sensible thing by most people on this forum and that is to give them the option to use the previous version.
There are numerous other reasons, but the above seems to summarise.
Many of the contributors to this forum would be puzzled, perplexed and frustrated with the deliberate recalcitrant attitude of Google - and would be wondering...why???
May I be permitted to hazard a guess as to the deliberate stubbornness exhibited by Google.
The reasons for Google's recalcitrant attitude:
To understand why Google will take no notice of their users, it is important to understand that Google actually believes they are right.
Indeed, in believing that they are right in changing to the so-called "new" compose, they also believe that the clammer they are getting from this forum, is only due to the normal attitude of mankind to the resistance of "change".
Consequently, in believing that they are right (in their little world) - they further believe that eventually this clammer will fade away and all the users will accept the changes.
May I be so bold as to say that they are sitting in their little offices/cubicles and joking about the hullabaloo that is being generated by a small section of their users - as they see it.
"It will go away", they are saying to each other..."Some people just don't appreciate all the work we've done!"
Therefore, these questions need to be asked:
1. Will it go away?
Eventually it will, because the users who don't wish to be bothered, will just leave Google, and therefore not contribute to any more forum discussions on the subject.
Result: Looks as if everyone has accepted the change, because the clammer has died down.
2. Is it difficult to give Gmail users the option to use the older and more user friendly interface?
NO...it's not difficult. Actually it's very easy.
3. Will they give you the option to use the older more user friendly option?
NO...they won't.
4. Why?
This answer is simple...they will lose face. Losing face will mean, (to Google), that they will lose their perceived position of superiority...and that will never do.
It can be so easily fixed...but I regret that it never will <sigh>
OK thats better than not being able to edit it at all - but its hidden and still in the realm of how is this a productivity improvement, click click click click where previously none was required.
I'm trying to like/understand this - but good UI/UX should recede so as the user is barely aware they're using it.
Time and again this new system is failing that test for me
Maybe that's something that they at least can fix?
I'm not holding my breath though, because I'm sure they're also in love with the now look of gmail, which I find borderline amateurish and reminds me of the bad old days when I was using other services for my email.
> ...why change a very legible "To" window to replace it with a graphics-heavy thing that doesn't show the info you need to see?
Agree entirely
Plus the constant jumping/changing of height of the recipient area while elements show/hide themselves is soo distracting.
Its cleaner to look at but the experience is anything but clean
On Thursday, August 22, 2013 10:14:28 PM UTC-4, cmdd1 wrote:I am switching emails because this new very non-intutive and non effective email change is driving me nuts. I wish I could switch back.
Apparently shift+reply followed by shift+Popup arrow = Reply in New Window
1) shift+reply for side reply window
2) shift+popup arrow for reply in separate window.
Knew it had to exist. And, eureka, it does. Yet it requires two clicks and two mouse repositionings. Why? Can this moveable reply window be set to default? If not, please make it possible to do so.
Took me some doing to figure out on my own - am happy to share in case it's of use to anyone else.
Curiously, in the keyboard shortcuts listed here https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6594?hl=en&ctx=mail it says:
Shift + r allows you to reply to a message in a new window.
- but it doesn't open in a new window. It opens reply in a side window.
Yet the same shortcuts say:
Shift + c allows you to compose a message in a new window.
- and indeed, shift+c opens compose in new window. A moveable, resizeable new window.
Is this a bug?
Please fix Shift+r to open reply in a new window.
ps:
Have to say, we've been asking for 'reply in new window' for days now. I and others have asked for it and about it repeatedly. Countless others have complained over and over again about the tiny reply window at the bottom or side bar. Yet no one, NO ONE in over hundreds of messages has bothered to say "Oh, separate reply window? here's how". Why not?
No problem changing it! How much worse do you want it to be?
I thought there was a pop-out in two clicks but evidently not. I'll try to find out for you.
I don't get the artificial line breaks. Which browser and are there any extensions or add-ons?
As long as the replies are to different emails then you should not need to create drafts as moving from one thread to another will save the drafts automatically.
Hopefully with all the complaints Google will revert back to the old style.
no one like this format every one give bad comment for gmail please and please change this format but some using old format i don't how it is working..
Why? No, seriously, why?
Return this option or I'm out.
Now, here are a ton of posters, who do NOT concur with that opinion at all. I think that's rather evident.
The users' frustration also stems from the fact that the version of the new Compost (shall we call it the Cornwell Compost?) that's been dumped on the users, did not get a "trial run", as did the prior version of the Cornwell Compost.
I'm a former software developer/designer/architect. I've designed several GUIs (some rather specialized) in my time. Looking at the fiasco of the small compose window, then the "full screen" (not quite) kludge, etc., this looks like a very poor design effort, that wasn't given much thought before coding started.
Cornwell's idiotic and egoistic comments in that interview, "We wanted to give users permission to write smaller emails", didn't exactly help. As the old saying goes, "It's better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought of as an idiot, rather than open that mouth and remove all doubt."
The users here want the functionality of the classic Compose. So, I believe they'll be satisfied if the Cornwell Compost offers the necessary customization options which can be set as default, effectively reinstating the functionality of the classic Compose.
Repeatedly telling a bunch of frustrated users, "The old Compose won't be coming back", doesn't help the situation at all, imvho!
However, this is a trend. Because of this, I made the decision to exclude Chromebook completely while considering new laptops. I'm not going to hang my hat on the product of a company that is blatantly ignoring their users' wishes and whose employees are publicly making asinine, egoistic statements.
BTW, if you think Gmail interface is bad, it's much better than the Youtube UI.
Once upon a time, I thought Google hired the best and the brightest. I stand corrected!
Was the author a Google employee?
are you having a laugh???
Im gong to stop using gmail unless you reply immediately with how to use this crap update
Amanda
..... Except it doesn't address my huge problem: I use 20 canned responses and send 120 emails a day with them.
Every time I amend them (pasting information, like names or manual input, like prices or dates) it insert return lines for every change, making the emails un-readable.
Eg If I change a 2013 template for a 2014 quote, simply changing the 3 in 4, it gives
201
4
my changes to templates are many, adding lines at every change!
I had asked my manager to choose gmail BECAUSE of canned responses: but now I have to alter all my emails manually removing unnecessary lines/change of font in the middle of the email and still my clients received a messed-up version.
Please help if you know how to solve this? It has simply DOUBLED my workload
How can i convert composing email in old format
It was provided by you.
You changed it, not I.
Why on earth would I choose to invest time and energy in seeking to understand a new product that you offered in place of one you withdrew without asking me?
A plague on your house.
I am shopping elsewhere.
have a look at http://gmail-tips.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/changes-to-gmail-compose.html it explains in detail how the new compose works.
On Friday, August 23, 2013 11:43:44 AM UTC+2, HIREN Jadvani wrote:New composing email experience is very very bed.
How can i convert composing email in old format
All the things I loved about gmail, the ease of use and functionality, have been wiped away with this new update. I keep seeing that a rollback isn't possible, but this is horrible customer service! Why would you make sweeping changes to a good, clean and simple design and then refuse to actually *LISTEN* to your customers who hate it.
This reminds me of Facebook, and here I thought you guys were supposed to be so much above what Facebook does to it's clientele.
up up down down left right left right a b ... I guess the 80s revival now applies to keyboard cheat codes in Google! LOL
On Thursday, 22 August 2013 23:03:15 UTC-4, Valerie Ghent wrote:
> So buried in the key commands is a way to create reply in a new window (ie moveable and resizeable reply):
>
> Apparently shift+reply followed by shift+Popup arrow = Reply in New Window
>
> 1) shift+reply for side reply window
> 2) shift+popup arrow for reply in separate window.
>
> Knew it had to exist. And, eureka, it does. Yet it requires two clicks and two mouse repositionings. Why? Can this moveable reply window be set to default? If not, please make it possible to do so.
>
> Took me some doing to figure out on my own - am happy to share in case it's of use to anyone else.
>
>
> Curiously, in the keyboard shortcuts listed here https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6594?hl=en&ctx=mail it says:
>
> Shift + r allows you to reply to a message in a new window.
>
> - but it doesn't open in a new window. It opens reply in a side window.
>
> Yet the same shortcuts say:
>
> Shift + c allows you to compose a message in a new window.
>
> - and indeed, shift+c opens compose in new window. A moveable, resizeable new window.
>
> Is this a bug?
>
> Please fix Shift+r to open reply in a new window.
>
>
>
> ps:
> Have to say, we've been asking for 'reply in new window' for days now. I and others have asked for it and about it repeatedly. Countless others have complained over and over again about the tiny reply window at the bottom or side bar. Yet no one, NO ONE in over hundreds of messages has bothered to say "Oh, separate reply window? here's how". Why not?
Glad to hear not everyone is getting line breaks
On Thursday, 22 August 2013 23:41:18 UTC-4, The C Man (Elder Advisor - Mobile Laureate) wrote:
> bruce,
>
> I don't get the artificial line breaks. Which browser and are there any extensions or add-ons?
>
> As long as the replies are to different emails then you should not need to create drafts as moving from one thread to another will save the drafts automatically.
Please explain why you would need to cut and paste.
Ctrl and A at the same time to highlight them all. Ctrl and C to copy or Ctrl and X to cut them. Ctrl and V to paste. If you mean you want to leave some out then Paste and then use the x in each address tag to remove tyhe ones you don't want.
You can edit while they are still Canned Responses and use the edited response. I know it's a work around but sometimes it's what we do until somebody corrects what is a problem for us.
Why did you need to save the Reply? Opening a Compose would have just left it in the background. You can also open multiple Compose windows and as long as you do not use the expand arrow to bring them back but click into the centre of the grey bar they will come back as you left them.
" I start a formal reply to my boss, then I save it, and then I start a quick informal question to my coworker in order to finish the first formal reply to my boss".
The only reason I don't use Basic HTML on my work gmail account is that I use Canned Responses, which you can't get in basic HTML view at all (or not that I can work out how). There is a workaround, I can just save each canned response as a draft email and copy-and-paste is as required, but that's a bit of a faff to say the least.
D
Please Gmail, come to your senses and bring the old compose back. I've been researching alternatives, and when I find the right one I will be gone baby gone.
Luke
Please bring back the old way. It´s really hard for me to read what I am writing. I now have to write my email in a word program first, and then past it into gmail. It´s really silly that they changed it - I really dont see the point?
I do not understand why they insist on changing everything you are used to. There is no technical reason why they cannot provide a similar "Classic" look when moving forward. Gmail is a productivity tool and making constant changes is annoying. Some people, like me, don't like to be forced to change. I should be able to try it and if I do not like it, I should be able to switch back permanently. This is just the last straw for me with Gmail changing things..
I have had an iCloud account for awhile now and it seems to not make changes that completely changes how you use it and force these changes upon you.
I will be switching all my accounts to iCloud. Goodbye Gmail. You suck. Forcing people to change to what you think is better, will force many to simply leave.
L8r
hold down control and press - ( minus ) a few times to reduce
hold down control and press zero to reset
try another theme
On Friday, August 23, 2013 3:05:47 PM UTC+2, janvi enterprises wrote:I also really dislike the new compose box and the new set up? Why change something that works??
Please bring back the old way. It´s really hard for me to read what I am writing. I now have to write my email in a word program first, and then past it into gmail. It´s really silly that they changed it - I really dont see the point?
Editing subjects for a reply or forward is truly bizarre. It really slows the process down. This is something that I do often. The new compose is not intuitive. It takes more steps. For people in the business world using Gmail, the new compose is a huge step in the wrong direction. I've wasted so much time on this matter. I never knew how to send feedback, about the forums or who Jason Cornwell was before the new compose. I didn't have to, everything worked great and was easy to use. Now I've got multiple blank drafts, I'm sending emails to people with multiple or no signatures (I use Wisestamp). I find that replies and forwards are simply ridiculous. Why hide the subject? I mean WTF? I also receive and send email from multiple accounts.
Please Gmail, come to your senses and bring the old compose back. I've been researching alternatives, and when I find the right one I will be gone baby gone.
> We want to help you understand how to use new features, and make them work for you, especially new features that have become default and from which there is now no escape.
Just a morbid observation. I do not have to deal with it. I'm using Thunderbird now whenever I do write e-mails. I have for a couple of months. I will never visit Gmail - even when traveling, meaning I won't use e-mail at all unless my laptop is with me - and if Google decides that forwarding of mail must be stopped or must become a "pay us and kiss our feet" feature, then I will discontinue all use of Gmail from that day forward (the only exception being if I have to verify some accounts being changed to a new e-mail address).
Of course, I figure Google will come to its senses before then. They're not all stupid there. I know they aren't.
One of my biggest gripes: I cc somebody on almost every email. I have to click twice to get that window up and running. Oh, wait. I'll bet there's a keyboard shortcut for that. Now, what was it?
See, it's just a ridiculous hodge-podge of the old and new which saddles people with a totally unnecessary learning curve.
Sorry, and thanks for offering me the opportunity to vent in this forum, Google. Now just GIVE US BACK THE OPTION TO REVERT, already. PLEASE!!
How the hell do you cut and paste large numbers of contacts to go in to BCC now?
Thunderbird / Zoho! Foward all mail to Zoho and use Thunderbird imap.
Removing the save option and inflicting auto-save (even when there are no changes to save) is a huge step backwards (on top of all the other problems with these new "features").
Is there any way to turn off auto-save, or at least restrict it to only be invoked when changes have actually been entered?
I'm going to guess that they are all in your Contacts so in the Address box click on To: and it will bring up a list of your Contacts so you can check mark those you want to address to directly. Activate the cc: or bcc: address boxes and so the same with these. Top left of the address menu you can choose to use My Contacts (it's the default) or by clicking on the menu arrow to find any of your Groups.
It seems to me, returning to the old intuitive and easy to use form would make the most sense.
It sucks twice, because it is now compulsory.
I assume Google is paying somebody to develop such worsening new "features" (I am thinking about new Google Groups, too; which is the most dreadfully backwards step, resource-hogging technology change I've seen: I am appreciating its sluggishness right now): you are wasting your money, guys.
Thinking that this comes from such a big industry is just embarrassing.
Lara,
I'm going to guess that they are all in your Contacts so in the Address box click on To: and it will bring up a list of your Contacts so you can check mark those you want to address to directly. Activate the cc: or bcc: address boxes and so the same with these. Top left of the address menu you can choose to use My Contacts (it's the default) or by clicking on the menu arrow to find any of your Groups.
try change text size :hold down control and press + a few times to enlarge
hold down control and press - ( minus ) a few times to reduce
hold down control and press zero to reset
How obtuse can you be?!
To get what I like to see, I had to figure out how to get the subject visible, double click the "To" window to see the full address (don't really need to but in this case wanted to) and make the quoted text appear.
Of course all this in a tiny window that's not expendable.
Sorry guys, but how is this "easier"?!!!
For one of my account, I have switched to using Thunderbird, which is not ideal since the idea of gmail is that you can access it from anywhere without special software, but it's helpful for an account where I attach a lot of files (hate the new Attack also!)
Still at a loss for words as to why supposedly intelligent designers would make such a mess of things.
There is a culture of isolation with net companies (not just Google) that makes it very difficult for them to receive negative feedback as they are, by design, isolated and clearly spend their time congratulating each other on how brilliant they are while ignoring their actual users.
Gmail simply looses lots of users..
Its like a suicide !
Please do something.. give an option to switch back to older ..plzz
You may need to add them back in or check your other Groups. The ones that will never be listed will be in Other Contacts and you can add them to the correct Groups. It's because you may have removed them from all your Groups or you rarely email them. Removing them from My Contacts will override them ever being re-added until you physically do it yourself.
In fact the forums are based on what a few people set up in the early days of Gmail (it was the first to have a help group) and was something completely voluntary. Google then offered to take it over (I believe as I wasn't around at the time) having discovered that help by other users was far better accepted then official help. Most internet companies use the same system but very few offer the amount of help Google does to it's TC's.
More detailed:
* You've hidden options, which makes it harder to use.
* It's smaller (even in not really, but you call it anyway, "full screen" mode).
* It can't be "popped-out" into another window.
* Clicking anywhere minimizes it, which initially makes it look like you just lost your whole message so you start a new one and start retyping which is a waste of our time.
* It has TOO MUCH wasted space.
The good:
* I'm trying, but I honestly can't think of anything better in the new than the old -- which is what made you guys famous -- you basically just threw out what was working.
It's great that you people volunteered your time to produce this document. I have to say that the Google Corporation did an extemely poor job communicating, and extremely poor job preparing its users for this humongous change.
I can only assume that Google doesn't care about individual users like myself who use Google email daily. This kind of corporate indifference to customers (even lowly individuals such as I) is the kind of thing that eventually kills large organizations. And I say that as the former employee of one of the largest technical corporations in the world. I'm retired now, and thankfully my former employer has managed to avoid the mistake Google is making.
Thanks again for the info. It arrived just in time to save me from moving to a new email platform.
=-=-=
Compare MS to Google. For twenty years, MS was known for sparse features, horrible lack of QA and pervasive bugs in major products that were rarely cleaned up with new releases. Around 2003-3004 MS released relatively bug-free and robust versions of IE, Office and Windows XP.
Since proving they were capable of releasing competent and useful products, the corporate culture of MS appears to be demonstrating that they do not have to do this. Releases since them have simply abandoned critical features or hidden them behind flashy presentation.
Why must we use MS products? Monopoly, advertising, size? I don't care about any of this theory -- I just want something that works! Pay triple license fees for the old versions? Worthwhile for the customer, but assumes the corporate goal is to make money. Apparently, the company's real bottom line is showing the customer who is the boss and Do Only Harm (DOH!).
Difference between Micro$hit and Google? Starting to look like the only real difference is ten years later to the same cesspool.
Far, far, far worse to use than I ever expected.
I hope the paper clip did not do as you say but gave you the opportunity to attach files. The underlined A should shrink or expand the Format bar while the + sign gives you the options to Insert files from Drive, Attach money, Insert images, Add links, Smilies or Insert Invitations.
So, you don't like a small window, and you don't like a big window. Is there a size you do like?
Since always. It makes the offer to save in Outlook, Open Office and most other Office apps. I don't say all because I haven't checked them all out.
Try Shift compose which will give you a resizeable window.
And some of the TCs wonder why they get abused by those posting here. bkc56 with his snotty rejoinder has just demonstrated exactly why it happens.
Since always. It makes the offer to save in Outlook, Open Office and most other Office apps. I don't say all because I haven't checked them all out.
Try Shift compose which will give you a resizeable window.
"Sorry, I seem to have lost the thread here. What did I type that elicited this response?"
"X meaning "close and save""
In case I do want to use a Google search, I go through www.startpage.com. That prevents Google from collecting unnecessary (imho, of course) info.
Sorry. The paper clip does as you say which is the seventh option
Since always. It makes the offer to save in Outlook, Open Office and most other Office apps. I don't say all because I haven't checked them all out.
It's a web based system so you won't have all the functions you have on a computer based system. At least it will help those who clicked the X by mistake and lost hours of work and we had loads of complaints about that. We also had complaints users were hitting the Trash button because it was too close to other buttons.
It isn't possible to please everybody just as it's impossible to give everybody their own specially sized Compose Window but being able to resize it yourself does seem to get closer to the optimum. The only other way would be to have a line of buttons giving many variations of size. For me that would be ridiculous.
I have not had a problem using the normal expanded window which is my default.
- Being able to tab into CC/BCC fields
- Seeing which account I'm sending from as I compose
- Seeing who's in TO vs. CC as I compose
The new compose isn't awful, it's just significantly worse than the old one in quantifiable ways & is having a noticeable negative effect on my productivity. Please bring back the old version, or something like it, as an option!
It's a web based system so you won't have all the functions you have on a computer based system.
It isn't possible to please everybody just as it's impossible to give everybody their own specially sized Compose Window
I have not had a problem using the normal expanded window which is my default.
I cant stress that enough.
I'm not sure if customer feedback influences any decision making at Google, I bet they are data-driven and look at usage as a more true indicator than a few hundred people angry enough to rant about it.
I have been with Gmail since closed beta and thought it was pretty good despite its flaws because it was so simple and logical. The new minimalist compose is an example of very very bad user interface thinking and flawed logic.
1 The old compose mail was pretty good, why blow it up?
2 The new compose mail looks like its ported from a mobile device. What the geniuses in UX design forgot: its always better to do something on a desktop computer than a mobile device. Why? Because the input devices are better (real keyboard, mouse, etc.) and available real estate (27" inches anyone?) only to mention just two.
3 The new compose mail is not straight forward to use. Period. Most of its features are hidden, and I have read some are even hidden behind shift-clicks etc. What the why?? That is like hiding the trunk release in the glove box, a nightmare to find the first time and annoying to use every time thereafter.
4 Too many too smart people has worked on this and the result sucks. Everything is now complicated and hidden behind a minimalist paradigm.
5 This change is a bold and brazen move but it isn't good enough to warrant such a gutsy move because it doesn't improve over legacy workflow, instead it makes many operations more cumbersome to use and discards UI-understanding among its users.
Please bring the "Classic" compose back while you figure out what to do next.
Outlook is computer based and gives the extra options when you click the X. Gmail is cloud based. The functions will not be the same. The function gained is x no longer discards what you were working on.
I have to ask. Are you deliberately trying to force me to attack you? I give the best advice I can as do others. We cannot turn the clock back. If I could I would go back to being 24 years old before I started making my own mistakes.
You don't like the corner window or the expanded one or the full screen one plus the option of choosing your own size by stretching or shrinking it is too much for you to do so please describe the optimum sized window for you. Others may agree.
On Friday, August 23, 2013 6:41:18 PM UTC-4, The C Man (Elder Advisor - Mobile Laureate) wrote:
> You don't like the corner window or the expanded one or the full screen one plus the option of choosing your own size by stretching or shrinking it is too much for you to do so please describe the optimum sized window for you. Others may agree.
Old compose was the optimal compose window. I don't need resizable windows. I don't need or want a chat box for composing emails. I want the old compose where nothing is hidden behind inane mouse click or shift click this or that or keyboards shortcuts.
a)It sets the first letter of the email to black and marks it misspelled.
b)It changes colors of different paragraphs without showing in compose.
c)The hot key send is a disaster. I have hit that combo more than once.
And it wastes my time.
You can no longer save a draft to quickly send it to another person.
They really don't give a rip. They have their money so they are gone.
Or they started hiring 8th graders to do their coding to save money.
I long for a reasonable alternative. I'd switch in a heartbeat.
I've suggested that.
Mike_B_,
That depended on the size of your screen. Not everybody felt the same and I am beginning to see the need for a larger screen. I have to use a wireless keyboard to see my screen at the moment and I'll need a longer room soon.
Please explain (a) and whether you are using the Browser spell check or the Gmail/Google one you need to enable at some point.
Gmail does not change the colour of different paragraphs unless you are copying from a previous email when it will reveal it is being copied.
What did you set up as a hot key?
You never could save a draft, send it and then send again. Here's the trick. Open more than one Compose window. Type in one and then copy and paste that to another and you can send them separately to each person.
Do you speak for Google and Gmail? If so, then you have some say so over what can and cannot be done. If you don't speak for them they how can you tell us what can and cannot happen? Sounds to me like you are the one promoting the new system regardless of how good or bad it is.
Why would you feel like attacking people who are (to varying degrees of manners and clarity) conveying what they want? YOU ASK them what they would like to see as a resolution and then you snap at them for telling you and/or trying to explain what they mean.
As to silly and endless clicking to make things actually viewable at a reasonable size, the old Gmail did that automatically when you changed the size of your browser window. What we are all saying is change that part back.
Change the icons into back into proper icon bars and put them as they were oriented before. At least more or less how it was before. Put the things back that one expects to find on an email window and as Gmail had it so nearly perfectly laid out.
Fine we get that Google won't admit to any fault on their part so now the question is WILL or WILL THEY NOT fix some of these issues almost everyone is agreeing upon?
Why is this all so damn hard to get these simple facts across? It's a simple question so can all unsubscribe from this forum and find a suitable alternative elsewhere.
If Google is so damn proud of their latest baby why are THEY not here defending it? If you say that you do not get paid to this, why are you here taking the flak for Google’s screw-ups?
I feel that I should also say thank you for helping out where Google clearly couldn’t give a damn to even provide a proper forum. Just because I can say thanks for your help (and everyone else here) it doesn’t mean that we agree with you OR with Google.
Finally if people are here venting their dissatisfaction with this latest move from Google why do you think that is? If you don’t want them here complaining then where and to who shall we take this to? If you tell us that much then we call all get out of your hair and take it up with someone who CAN do something about this mess.
Read what others have said about me and the advice I have given before attacking me. Read what Annie said. This is from one of her posts three hours agao.
"The C Man - Thank god there's a TC who can post a response intended to be helpful".
I already tried posting this question separately, and I got the usual, "don't request email updates" -- the usual, "Here's a great answer to a question you are not asking, but I happen to know the answer to this one."
On Friday, August 23, 2013 8:20:04 PM UTC-4, sherrillparkvp wrote:
> How can I stop receiving email updates from this thread?
>
> I already tried posting this question separately, and I got the usual, "don't request email updates" -- the usual, "Here's a great answer to a question you are not asking, but I happen to know the answer to this one."
In the email update you get at the bottom is a link to unsubscribe. Then when you make a post be sure to uncheck the subscribe button.
You have to understand he was frightened one Halloween when he was a child by somebody dressed as a ghost in a white sheet. He now writes all his letters on Post it notes.
I'm not opposed to companies making profit, but when they do so at the expense of people who rely on their products and have been loyal to them, then it is obvious they are no different than any other company.
"Do no evil" is just a marketing gimmick now.
Elder, you seem like a good person who is trying to help, you have taken too much abuse for someone not getting paid. For what? You fought the good fight, move on, there has to be something better formyou and more rewarding for you if you want to help people. Google doesn't deserve your dedication and service.
I recognised the term. There is only one other Elder Advisor here. I'm in here to try helping others use what I consider an unfinished product in the best way possible. It will be finished when it comes closer to the ideal emailing system.
On Friday, August 23, 2013 9:28:15 PM UTC-4, The C Man (Elder Advisor - Mobile Laureate) wrote:
>I'm in here to try helping others use what I consider an unfinished product in the best way possible. It will be finished when it comes closer to the ideal emailing system.
So if it is as you consider an "unfinished" product. Then why in your opinion do you think they have forced this horrendous thing on the users? If it was not finished why did they not leave the opt out feature engaged?
You know I think? I think they think it's complete. If they didn't why have we not heard a word from an actual google rep? I get you are trying to help but most the people here probably don't want help. I know I don't. I refuse to go read crappy blogs, or watch some inane video. I refuse to lean a mess of new keyboard shortcuts, I do not want my formatting options hidden I want to see everything including to from cc and bcc without having to reclick on it. I and many others want to go back to using the compose we loved. Not this horrendous looking, clunky, nonfunctional, crap of a compost they have forced onto us.
However, google doesn't see us as real users. They are catering to a slight few they consider "uber-users", their words not mine. Cornhole made that comment on his + page. We the general pop don't matter google because we are not considered "uber-users".
The entirety of this decision makes no sense and the lack of response from google shows just how much they don't give a damn what we think.
I have already set up my email to forward to outlook. I used to hate outlook but it's much better than what google has forced on me.
Evidently you did not see the original start of "Post Feedback Here on New Compose Options" (this is part 2) and is the official thread to post comments on.
TC's (Top Contibutors) don't speak for anybody but themselves but they do have a slightly more informed view of what is happening but not a lot. To an extent their advice is listened to by Google which is why you have an option to change the default opening size for Compose and the format bar displayed in the larger Compose windows.
I don't think there was an attack on anybody although there have been attacks in the other direction (you proved that) when somebody comes in and jumps to a conclusion from only reading one or two posts.
You are in the official thread to comment which means one of the TC's thought you had something to say which might be worth reading.
Gmail was better than the others. Now it has dropped to the same standard as the best of them from what I can see. Outlook.com hides as much if not more and I have no doubt most of the other leading email suppliers are no better. Gmail should be leading the way in simplicity and ease of use as it did before.
I have never known Google defend itself. Others have posted a comparison to the Coca Cola fiasco. Coke made the mistake of defending itself which could have been and even worse mistake than changing the formula. They aroused people's ire by telling them they were wrong. Jason Cornwell created the same type of hatred with his granting of permission to write smaller emails.
The thanks after the attack seems totally out of place.
People are here venting their dissatisfaction because Google thinks they have a right to do that.
On Friday, 23 August 2013 16:26:39 UTC-4, bkc56 wrote:
> Far, far, far worse to use than I ever expected.
>
>
>
> So, you don't like a small window, and you don't like a big window. Is there a size you do like?
>
>
> All the stuff you described is identical to the other formats, just spread out. I don't understand why a widget-by-widget description was needed.
Because nothing Google has ever produced has been a finished product when they have first launched it. They may be slow at making things better but they eventually do. The changes in Gmail from when they announced it properly in April to now prove that. I'm pretty sure that policy of improvement will carry on.
If I was daddy bear I would have eaten Goldilocks. If somebody came into your house, destroyed furniture, ate your child's food and then messed up every bed in the place so they could sleep comfortably without asking permission I don't think you would be happy.
Earlier today on the search page of the forum I typed a query "new compose" than did a sort to see the most recent post
This number has jumped from 8000 or so to tonight almost 17,000
WHAT DOES THIS NUMBER REPRESENT SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER
You may need to add them back in or check your other Groups. The ones that will never be listed will be in Other Contacts and you can add them to the correct Groups. It's because you may have removed them from all your Groups or you rarely email them. Removing them from My Contacts will override them ever being re-added until you physically do it yourself.
LOL Wendy! Do you realize YOU can help reduce that impression about TCs by not indulging in such behavior yourself? I've personally seen you exhibit such behavior than any other TC.
No one has held a gun to your head to come here and contribute in any way. You've chosen it of your own free will. The way you respond to others, reflects your OWN CHOICE! No point in blaming already frustrated users for your behavior.
I manage multiple emails through Gmail and I used to be able to pick up the email address I have to chose in the reply! The option is gone!?
Read what others have said about me and the advice I have given before attacking me. Read what Annie said. This is from one of her posts three hours agao.
"The C Man - Thank god there's a TC who can post a response intended to be helpful".
Gmail was better than the others.
Now it has dropped to the same standard as the best of them from what I can see. Outlook.com hides as much if not more and I have no doubt most of the other leading email suppliers are no better.
Gmail should be leading the way in simplicity and ease of use as it did before.
Try reading the other thousands of messages if you would like to read something less emotional and evocative, and more intellectual and enumerative.
If I was daddy bear I would have eaten Goldilocks. If somebody came into your house, destroyed furniture, ate your child's food and then messed up every bed in the place so they could sleep comfortably without asking permission I don't think you would be happy.
The more I use this new compose, the more I feel that it was made for individuals who send the occasional short mail to a friend or whatnot. It works absolutely fantastic for that purpose. I can't think of anything wrong with it. It looks clean, the interface is modern and nifty, it rocks!But long emails, emails with tables, mails to multiple recipients, anything a business would use, it's fairly useless, sorry :(
It's news to me that Outlook is computer based. I think MS would be surprised to find that out, too.
All these suggestions are further evidence that Gmail's usability testing is in tatters!
Click on the curled arrow menu and use the second option starting "Reply all ..........."
Gmail started as something easy to use and the best thing in the market at the time. Then google started "improving" it, removing and/or hiding things, making it harder to use.
Gmail continues to get worse with every "improvement" google rolls out. Meanwhile other options slowly get better. Gmail is in a race to the bottom.
Only question is, how many more "improvements" will it take before gmail becomes as bad as hotmail and yahoo used to be? Most gmail users came to gmail because hotmail and yahoo were bad. Now they are getting better and gmail is getting to be as bad as the options it replaced.
"And then you proceeded a few posts later to threaten to "attack" me"No Annie! I asked if you wanted me to. Please read, not misread.
The TC's have a long history of being provoked into reacting to innuendo and harassment so they can be accused of attacking the posters. That is where I try to step in. I starred in debate teams from the age of 12. I learned how not to be provoked into such behaviour.
Please don't think of this as an attack on yourself. It's not. It's an explanation. If you make the mistake of misreading it as an attack then I'm sorry for not wording it in a better way.
I'm sure you still have your invitation because you would not make such a statement without proof. I had to fight for an invitation and Gmail users only had four to hand out at the time. It was sent to me by somebody I met by chance on line who had a Gmail address. Invitations are sent by Gmail users asking Google to send you one. I have never known Google to invite as it has no way of knowing an address to send it to.
"Google did invite us (quite literally in some cases, including mine) to come in and use their service"
The thanks was a way of nodding to the people (clearly not you or C Man) who go about doing what they come here to do. I see them quietly answering people's questions without passing judgement.
So thank you for not answering a single of my questions thus far. I am now convinced that you are quite ineffectual in our cause to make Gmail great again. I was a fan but I do not worship all things Google.
We have come here to ask how we can change things for the better (not the current worse) and people like you are just noise. Worse, you are an unnecessary obstacle in moving forward to a better Gmail. So you have provided no solution or avenues we can pursue. Largely I just see petty attacks. I don’t take anything personally except someone wasting my time.
Feel free to vent and continue your character assassination as I will no longer be reading. I'm unsubscribing as of this message. My ego is not involved in any of this and it quite sad to see this useless bickering.
I wish everyone well, as I have stated before, if you want to make changes everyone should post publically ELSEWHERE! This forum is not the place for change... just more explanations on how SHIFT Clicking multiple of time is a brilliant idea. It’s not a wonderful idea. I think just reading the last 400-500 messages, it is quite clear to a rational person.
and The C Man (Elder Advisor - Mobile Laureate) NOT the same person? same 
?? clicking on each one takes you to a different G+ page ...
On Saturday, August 24, 2013 5:13:52 AM UTC-5, The C Man (Elder Advisor - Mobile Laureate) wrote:Annie,I apologise for the rudeness of manny b answering for me but we have MPD and although we and the other six may have arguments we will defend each other. Sometimes they take over completely and reply as though they are me.
If you think you are confused how do you think eight of us living in the same head feel? MPD is good in some ways as none of us ever suffer from loneliness. I may seem to be talking to myself but I'm actually talking to me or I or even The C Man.
If you are extremely new as a user you won't know what the old version is and there is no real way back to it.
On Saturday, August 24, 2013 8:25:30 AM UTC-5, manny.b "Elder Advisor" wrote:ronna,
If you think you are confused how do you think eight of us living in the same head feel? MPD is good in some ways as none of us ever suffer from loneliness. I may seem to be talking to myself but I'm actually talking to me or I or even The C Man.
manny b did tell me you sorted out the RazrM (nice phone) and we had a long talk and decided we should both take you out for a coffee at some time to say thanks for being so understanding. We do get very jealous of each other so please RSVP both of us or if you prefer me more than myself or myself more than me we will try to live with that. Arguments do make our head spin.
manny b did tell me you sorted out the RazrM (nice phone) and we had a long talk and decided we should both take you out fro a coffee at some time to say thanks for being so understanding. We do get very jealous of each other so please RSVP both of us or if you prefer me more than myself or myself more than me we will try to live with that. Arguments do make our head spin
all right all right I go.. sorry for hijacking, couldn't help myself.
By the way, I started a new discussion; however, it's not getting much traffic. But Doree from Google DID make an appearance! I wish there was some way to get the word out to the rest of the "rounding error users" to "keep the constructive feedback coming" !
Doree (Google Employee)
Aug 23 (22 hours ago)
Ronna, first of all, thank you so much for starting a thread to gather constructive feedback :)
Please be confident that we'll make it a point to summarize the points brought out on this thread and share it with the product and engineering teams who built this feature. Some of them might also drop in and leave their comments directly. So, please hang in there.
And keep the constructive feedback coming!
https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!msg/gmail/FNpFCOHwyxw/uJ9sbT7aChIJ
On Saturday, August 24, 2013 9:38:57 AM UTC-5, The C Man (Elder Advisor - Mobile Laureate) wrote:
ronna,
manny b did tell me you sorted out the RazrM (nice phone) and we had a long talk and decided we should both take you out for a coffee at some time to say thanks for being so understanding. We do get very jealous of each other so please RSVP both of us or if you prefer me more than myself or myself more than me we will try to live with that. Arguments do make our head spin.
Please be careful or Jo Rodrigues will think you are two of our other persona's or we're picking on you.
Lara,
No jealousy please. Four of us have asked if you will go with them but can it please be at the same rendezvous because we can get splitting headache and we would rather have them together.
I don't want a pop-over window to compose emails in, it worked PERFECTLY FINE the way it was before.
I'm not sure who is leading the charge at google, but lately they seem to let some products stagnate with no new features, and they seem to be screwing around and eliminating functionality and features in others.
I realize I am not the customer, I am the product, but I would gladly pay (a reasonable amount) to actually BE a customer and have some input here.
Formatting options are shown.
Subject line is shown
Email is not reformatted into an object.
And it's a full page.
Switch from text/html is yet another hidden element
You have to move around the compose window to find elements to modify the content, click buttons to show formatting options, move over to the right for other options. NOT USER FRIENDLY.
Question: Did anyone find out why Shift+r does not open the stand alone reply window as it states in the keyboard short cuts? I mean the resizeable reply window you get by clicking Shift+Reply and then Shift+Popout.
Hi Doree, thanks for your feedback and thanks Ronna for starting a new thread.
I think many of us are asking for the same things: the ability to select and set view preferences for
a) compose/reply/forward window type (stand alone (ie moveable, resizable), popup, chat)
b) formatting (top/bottom, show/hide),
c) which fields to show (to/from/cc/subject) and
d) quoted text (show text or show elipses).
If it were possible to add a “Compose/Reply” Tab in Gmail Settings with options for setting the above, then the chosen/set preferences could be the default for that user.
The list is another great starting point. I would add 'reply' to it. There currently is a resizable reply window but it currently takes two clicks and two mouse movements to get to it. So I added it as #7.
I would also like to see a) an option to show quoted text instead of the elipses and b) "send" button at top and bottom of window. Have added those as #8 & #9.
1. Change the tool bar and all formatting to be at the top, instead of the bottom.
2. Allow text labels to be an option in settings.
3. Allow "sizing" of the "new compose" window and be able to set as a default.
4. Allow the option to hide or not hide (collapse) the To, From, Subject lines.
5. Allow the window/sizing of choice to remain static when changing the subject line or having to break away for a moment.
6. New compose window should not 'gray out' everything behind it.
7. Resizable 'reply' window and be able to set as default. (ie the reply window you get to by shift+reply and then shift+Popout, be able to set this as default).
8. Option to show quoted text instead of elipses.
9. Have "Send" at top and bottom of window.
hope this helps.
ps: Since we were asked for constructive feedback, last weekend I wrote an open letter to google with a list of 10 steps to fix new compose/reply here: http://valghent.com/open-letter-to-google-10-steps-to-fix-new-gmail-compose-reply/
we were asked 'how' to improve and 'why', so I included a few reasons (others have been listed in various replies in the threads in this forum) so Google could understand a little more about why these options are important to users.
The Sift + r works in my Firefox as a corner pop out but you still need to expand it.
Tony do you mean the same? Or does shift+r give you new, resizeable window?
Question is, as listed in keyboard shortcuts, Shift+c and Shift+r are listed as providing the same thing, a "new window", but only Shift+c creates a new window.
Shift+c = new window is good. If shift+r could be a new reply window, that would be fab.
And if both could then be set to default, that would be awesome.
Yet here: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6594?hl=en&ctx=mail
description for shift+r is same as for shift +c (below quoted from page):
"Shift + c allows you to compose a message in a new window."
"Shift + r allows you to reply to a message in a new window."
??
even outlook is not so good, but better than new compose. so now i'm using ad free service
i can't see a simple reason why google is not noticing that people are REALLY UNHAPPY!....today or tomorrow, they all might shift to facebook or mocrosoft products.
That is Jason Cornwall talking about the OLD Compose.
I never saw it as "intimidating" or in need or some way to write "quicker messages". If I wanted to send a quicker message, I opened up and messaged in GChat. Evidently, Mr. Cornwall does not feel any use for GChat, plans to retire GChat, and have this new compose replace it, effectively ruining productivity for millions, many of whom don't have the time to even write a complaint because they are already losing a lot of extra time in their workflows.
Now that's genius. Shooting self in the foot: achievement unlocked.
One also cannot copy and paste things into the compose screen in some cases at all.
Overall the new G-Mail compose function is a miserable failure. The inability to actually see the message to which you are replying, not to mention see the proper information in the various levels of "to" lines is at least inconvenient and more likely potential for trouble. I have several times triple (and more) checked to be sure a reply is going where it is supposed to go -- something that was not necessary in the past because all information was completely visible at all times.
As a person who has several accounts, mostly for businesses, I am in the process of changing all of them to something else.
Annie306, this may interest you -- I think you'll see the somewhat wry humour in the comparison.
Do a web search for Robert J. Sawyer and an article about WordStar being a writer's preferred word processor. It is an old article, but it parallels very much what is going on here with G-mail.
One of those parallels is that WordStar was fully designed in a way that made it useful to a touch-typist, and most other word processors are not so designed.
When I read your input here, Annie306, what I sense is the same frustration I have with G-Mail now, and also a clear indication that you probably actually know how to type -- PROPERLY -- as a touch typist.
And, to some extent, that is part of where this whole "change" falls down. There has been absolutely NO consideration for proper functionality for those who do actually have proper administrative and secretarial training.
And, we aren't all older -- granted that I've been a touch typist for over 45 years, but my Mother taught me (PROPERLY) on an old Underwood typewriter from 1912 when I was four years old.
One of the big issues now is that very few people have any idea of how to type (not to mention write coherently), so for many these changes are not noticed for what they really are -- which is reduced function.
Keep at them, Annie306, and I will too -- but frankly, I suspect the people who designed this haven't much of a clue who the users actually are.
Oh, and yes, I do still prefer WordStar -- but it is impossible to run it now with any efficiency since Windows XP (the last operating system that would run DOS programmes well).
I just posted a nice reply to your comments (agreeing with them) and it magically disappeared after a long pause. Given that it said nothing good about the new compose, and was actually coherent about things like typing and poor functionality, I suspect it was edited into oblivion so it wouldn't be seen or read.
Pity -- I agree with you, and also feel that the designers have not even remotely considered who the users are who matter.
Look up Robert J. Sawyer's article on WordStar being a "writer's" word processor as compared to things like Word or Word Perfect and I think you'll find some interesting parallels to this whole G-mail fiasco.
As a person who has more than one account for business I am in the process of removing all of them from G-Mail at this time. What once worked no longer does, and I cannot risk the chance of poor addressing, nor do I want the added aggravation of not having things that are used clearly and obviously available.
"It was a space that was sort of intimidating, I think, to write a message like 'Hey, wanna get lunch?'" he explains. "We wanted the new compose to facilitate these quicker messages. Or at least make it a space where that felt appropriate."
That is Jason Cornwall talking about the OLD Compose.
And, another function that is not working is the option to insert diacritical characters using ALT+###
I frequently type in German or French and using ALT+130 to get an "e" with an acute accent was fast and easy -- likewise for other letters such as a "u" with an umlaut.
Now, that method doesn't work, and I have not so far discovered any other method that works for diacritical inserts either.
This is one where Google seem to have thought outside the box. Open the Settings cog > Settings >
Enable input tools - Use IMEs, transliteration or virtual keyboards to type in the language of your choice > Save changes at the bottom of the page > Look top right of your Inbox page and you'll find a keyboard icon. You can now type in any language you have enabled.
Sorry for the edit and delay but I hit the Post button.
FYI - The ALT + characters work for me. I am using Firefox as my browser and Vista as my operating system. i just checked that out because I use ALT 0162 a lot ¢, é is ALT 130 that works both here AND in the new compose ...
"ALT 0162," huh? OK, I guess that makes cents. |  3:35 PM (17 minutes ago) |
The new compose is inferior to the old compose.
Regarding the alternative keyboards visual -- it is useful, but clumsy compared to functioning ALT keystrokes that have been memorised.
Now, if only I could beat Word into submission to function like WordStar of yesteryear! In that old programme all the F keys could be customised so I had my ü, é, etc. as F1, F2 and the like. Wonderful for a touch typist who is multilingual. It can still be done, but not quickly, not easily and not all F keys are available. (But that is a whole different topic.)
Why I mention it here is actually because this is what G-Mail should be doing as an improvement -- basically make it fully customisable so each user can indeed set things like the editing functions as preferred and as suitable for individual needs. It is one reason I use Thunderbird as a dump for G-Mail to my laptop, where at least I can use typing and formatting as I see fit -- but this isn't an option on some computers (i.e. if it isn't mine, for example).
Rather than allow for individual usage Google/G-Mail has forced one style upon all. If I wanted that I'd join the military and go to boot camp to be made a little clone of the others. :-)
Thank you to those who gave input!
It is slow and sticky. I have average internet access, and an average computer. It makes composing emails less of a joy. It feels like it is constantly refreshing the page, e.g. when you have a big document in Microsoft Word and it's saving in the background. Except ALL. THE. TIME. Or, more specifically: A.f.t.e.r. e.v.e.r.y. l.e.t.t.e.r. I. type. o.r. w.h.e.n.e.v.e.r. I. c.l.i.c.k.
These micro delays are building up and making the user experience very poor.
I have tried this with faster computers and internet connections, and improvement is slight, but you can't build products used by millions of people for the few users who have the best computers and internet connections.
Other comments:
-It's inefficient that cc and bcc are hidden, as a non-profit we cc and bcc people all of the time
-While we're here, I dislike the scroll functionality for the left hand column with all of the labels, etc. It is also very sticky and a bit slow, making for a less than satisfactory experience.
Lara - I use the Chat function to jot out a quick "wanna do lunch?" all the time. I thought THAT was Gmail giving us permission to write those short quick notes!
Something seems to wrong somewhere. I don't have a fast computer but I do have a very good internet speed and there are rarely any time lags as you describe them. I'm wondering what Anti-virus you have and if you have a firewall that is delaying everything.
Why did you mention Word which should have nothing to do with Gmail?
I've noticed since the switchover a time lag/delay in typing that's been driving me batty too. I'm relatively fast at typing but since the changeover there's a delay - I don't notice it here when typing messages to this group so it's not my internet connection.
But ever since I was switched over to 'new' compose, when I type in gmail - in either compose/reply/forward - there's a lag as I type, and it's made for some very odd typos (which I then have to go back and fix). Second letter of a sentence being capitalized, for instance: LIke this. As if the Shift to capitalize takes an extra moment to undo itself. And letters appearing connected to the next word, lik ethis. Something is definitely amiss.
This is new - wasn't present in the old gmail, same as it's not present as I type at this moment in groups.
My question, raised here in earlier posts to this group: with so many 'hidden' features and fields turning off/on so many times in the composition of a single, simple email, could all this extra code to hide/show be adding a delay? If not that, what then? Something has changed and there is definitely a delay in both typing and in backspace.
Can we try having all fields show, and see if the delay goes away?
On another subject, today I sent two emails to the wrong address because I didn't see the TO fields as a last minute verify. I also didn't change the subject header as I'd planned in a reply, because I DIDN"T SEE IT.
PLEASE give us an option to show these fields as a default. We need to SEE these fields at a GLANCE.
On Saturday, August 24, 2013 4:25:44 PM UTC-7, RedMtl wrote:The ALT key method is indeed working today -- I hadn't rechecked. I do know others who were also complaining so perhaps something has been fixed.
Regarding the alternative keyboards visual -- it is useful, but clumsy compared to functioning ALT keystrokes that have been memorised.
Now, if only I could beat Word into submission to function like WordStar of yesteryear! In that old programme all the F keys could be customised so I had my ü, é, etc. as F1, F2 and the like. Wonderful for a touch typist who is multilingual. It can still be done, but not quickly, not easily and not all F keys are available. (But that is a whole different topic.)
On Sunday, 25 August 2013 07:46:43 UTC+10, RedMtl wrote:Annie306I just posted a nice reply to your comments (agreeing with them) and it magically disappeared after a long pause. Given that it said nothing good about the new compose, and was actually coherent about things like typing and poor functionality, I suspect it was edited into oblivion so it wouldn't be seen or read.
I have a Subject template store on my web cookies for greeting my client, such as
(1)How are you this morning ?
(2)What for lunch ?
(3)Have a great night
etc
I used to write only the letter Ho for number one, Wh for number 2 and Ha for number 3. And the rest of the text showed up.
Only TWO letter you idiot. And now I have to write all the alphabet just to write a subject.
But the worst thing is, when I hit replay I really don't know to who my email going to send. Do you realize that sometime I have to edit the subject, add secondary email recipient but you hide it under small arrow that have no explanation what arrow is this for.
We live on planet earth, not everyone have 1MB/s internet connection. I used to choose traditional html view to open my inbox. So give me 1 button 1 action mode. Not a lazy mouse-over-menu.
Come on guys, you worked on best corporation in the world. Even you have a touch screen with andriod on your bathroom. You have to fixed based on human need, Not your manager or your idea. If they don't agreed to choose your new system. let them stay with the old one.
Cons: Anyone who has to write memos or other long form emails has no full screen option to work with now. A pop-up "full screen" window for a compose function with only 50-60% of the screen is not full screen.
Well my office which used gmail as of yesterday has migrated. It may only be 20 customers but the Aolification of Google is disheartening and we will not be coming back as you have lost our trust.
We need tools not toys. Good luck on becoming AOL 2.0.
Anyone know of a good alternative to Gmail with an actual full screen compose option?
That has to be a third party word processor type app and they can be broken at any time. Contact the supplier and see if they are updating it or recheck your own version to see if it is fully active.
On Sunday, August 25, 2013 1:13:19 PM UTC+2, Talha Khalid wrote:WHY AM I BEING SENT HERE? I JUST WANT TO GO BACK TO THE OLD WAY! ...
Google should incorporate many of the recommendations made in this forum without delay. I do not like to have to click here and there just to edit a subject (when forwarding) or have to try and compose emails in a small window (when I always prefer to utilise the full screen by default especially for formatting and being able to actually know what I'm writing).
At least the mobile version on desktop can help as a band-aid to some extent: https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/s/ although still yet to work out how to select compose a new email.
It's time for Google to bring back an option for the old compose.
This is downright a wrong way of doing it.
You need to keep it simple.
Why don't you test your changes on real people instead of on computers?
If it wasn't for the chats that I use all the time, I would change my email program to something more functional
To do this, click quickly on the bottom right-hand corner as gmail loads.
Has anyone else figured out that loading "basic HTML" disables all the new junk that Google has "upgraded" and basically takes you back to what gmail looked like 10 years ago?
- Chat
- Spell checker
- Keyboard shortcuts
- Ability to manage filters
- Adding, editing, importing, or deleting contacts
- Custom 'From:' addresses
- Rich formatting
- multiple select
- etc
- etc
- etc
YEAH BUT THEN YOU DONT HAVE
- multiple select
However, with that being said, I still would rather see the "full screen" version be scalable and not gray everything out behind it. And if I need to wander away for a moment, please revert my "full screen" back to what I have set as my default!! I really don't like having to chase that window all over my screen!
The jumping lines is still uber annoying.
I am REMEMBERING to double check and click BEFORE hitting SEND as the To From, CC and BCC lines are not readily visible for me to simply glance at them.
I would much prefer to have all the formatting, attachments, etc. be at the TOP of the screen rather than dispersed to all four corners.
I'd rather see TEXT on the buttons than Icons.
The New Compose is still way better than any other email program out there, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION.
anyway, just my 2¢.
I'm flabbergasted, I've seen gmail growing and growing but now there's something self destructive. They're adding bells and whistles but functionality and peace of mind in daily use is disappearing. I'm at a stage where I sincerely prefer to compose a new mail from my android phone with the beautiful k9 mail instead of using the gmail web experience. Ah, by the way, the android mail client is far behind the third party apps, so now even the main product, the almost mithical web interface is loosing point.
Too bad, too bad really.
Do you think about customers or people who have chosen you for the simplicity? This switch has been imposed not shared. We don't want it. Revert to the former interface please.
At the risk of sounding like a 'traitor' to the rest of us "rounding error users," I will admit I'm starting to get used to the new compose.
On Sunday, August 25, 2013 2:55:46 PM UTC-7, Still Lara wrote:
2) People who do know its potential, but need to use it for something other than sending the short messages it was clearly intended for..... Anyone in the second group may need to look for alternatives that are more traditional and that work for them.
I know I've asked before, but the chances of getting a reply on this are probably slim... is anything being done to fix things with sending tables,
sending mails to multiple recipients,
and the ability to remove people's full names from the TO field?
On Monday, 26 August 2013 08:20:45 UTC+10, bkennelly wrote:
On Sunday, August 25, 2013 2:55:46 PM UTC-7, Still Lara wrote:I know I've asked before, but the chances of getting a reply on this are probably slim... is anything being done to fix things with sending tables,Gmail has never supported inserting tables in the composer, so the solution to that is the same as it has always been. You need to use an email client with a better editor. (I use Thunderbird when I need advanced editing features. It provides tables, more types of lists and direct HTML editing.)
Please give us the old 'compose' gmail page back and "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!!"
To me these remain the most serious issues:
Unnecessary hiding of the to,cc,bcc,from fields. Yes we save some screen realestate but at a huge cost to confidence in who is receiving the email without actively clicking to check.
Positioning of the cc,bcc options far right, then having to jump your eye back far left to add addresses is simply ridiculous and tedious.
Inline "full screen" reply still exists until you change the subject line. You’re then rudely (the visual jump really does seem rude) forced back into the new popup compose – different editing environments for what I see as the same action defies any logic.
We have every other pop-out, expand full screen, minimise options. Why not an option to pop-in to the old way - just like the current reply environment.
My only hope is that paid business users are also expressing their hatred of it and that it leads to an option to switch back.
I always assumed that the option to turn off Conversation View was driven by large corporate users paying for Google Apps rejecting it – cant see how they’d accept this.
On Sunday, August 25, 2013 8:14:59 PM UTC-4, Pottery Girl wrote:I WANT MY FORWARDING COMPOSE AND REPLY OLD WINDOW BACK!!! 'NUFF SAID
2) People who do know its potential, but need to use it for something other than sending the short messages it was clearly intended for.
.... Anyone in the second group may need to look for alternatives that are more traditional and that work for them.
I fall into that group, and the solution has been there all along. You can pop out the composer to get a larger canvas.
I would say the initial pop-up is designed for quick notes, but that they did not ignore the rest of us.
I know I've asked before, but the chances of getting a reply on this are probably slim... is anything being done to fix things with sending tables,Gmail has never supported inserting tables in the composer, so the solution to that is the same as it has always been. You need to use an email client with a better editor. (I use Thunderbird when I need advanced editing features. It provides tables, more type of lists and direct HTML editing.)
sending mails to multiple recipients,
I don't have any problem with that. It works like it always has.
and the ability to remove people's full names from the TO field?This is a little tricky, but it can be done when necessary. You can edit the name and address if you double-click on the "chip", but Gmail will restore the name if you simply delete it, but you can enter another value, including a space, to prevent that. So, edit the contact and enter " " (including the quotes") and you can send without a name.
First they made a devil's pact with Google Shopping.
Then they dumped Google Reader.
Now they got rid of the option to go back to the old compose in Gmail.
I wonder what is going to be next from a company that is losing its cool?
Apparently all their hyped recruitment tests cannot find workers with commonsense and caring personality.
I am praying for the next fresh breadth of air like Google was 10 years ago.
I cannot do what I did before for sending email newsletters to my groups.
There is less formatting choices or it formats for me in a way that is unacceptable.
As far as formatting there might not be anything missing but with everything hidden behind so many inane clicks how can we be sure everything is still there? And again having to go through all those clicks is unacceptable.
----
For me the not full screen full screen option is also unacceptable. The old compose format much easier to use and less of a hassle. If this is the way google is headed then to hell with them.
bkc, I think he is stating how everything is hidden.
As a small step to correct, until I can migrate over to another service (I've got a lot of data in this email address), I've added an apology to my signature letting my clients know that the poor formatting is due to the new Gmail. I suggest that everyone else do the same.
I want the old compose back!
Like most people in this thread, I too don't like functions I use every day being buried behind extra mouse-clicks. Keyboard shortcuts are helping with some of them, but overall the new format is less efficient for people who want to compose more than the most basic of messages. But again, just because it's harder doesn't mean it's missing.
Adding a line in the signature field stating that formatting errors are a direct result of the poor interface for G-Mail and getting the information out the to more people (other than just those of us who have actually come here to complain) might be the best negative advertising for the poor interface there is.
As for the appealing to 14-year-olds and the lack of fast and efficient functionality for those of us who actually write or use G-mail for business, it's perfectly correct.
There are plenty of services and apps out there for those who want nothing more than short, text-style messages.
G-mail is used by a lot of businesses, and this whole new interface will drive us away.
In fact, I do not agree with an opt-out option for this dreadful new interface. I think it should be an opt-in option for those who don't want or need proper functionality.
For the rest of us, leave it the way it was.
And I also would like to know, as stated by someone else, whether or not anyone from Google is even bothering to notice the sheer numbers of people who are dissatisfied. I suspect they don't care.
There are so many other grips which is listed in this topic. Gmail team.. please allow us to revert!
I'm looking for another email provider after using gmail for six years now.
Where is the option to change the subject title on the reply screen?
Also, all the icons vs wording ...just isn't an improvement.
Left column downdowns and rollups are skiddish and do not work smoothly.
Go to
http://personal.zoho.com/biz/login/personallogin.jsp
Click the sign in using google icon on the right.
Accept the viewing of gmail credentials oauth.
When asked to select a plan,
Don't select Standard or Lite plans, but rather scroll down and click:
Create email account as <username>@zoho.com
Enter a Username for the zoho account
Once you have your new inbox working the way you like, you can forward all gmail emails to your new @zoho address.
Gmail Gears Icon, Settings, Forwarding and POP/IMAP
And ooh, no ads!
I'm Really impressed with Zoho! Checkout the screenshot.
I was wondering what the best option might be, and you have directed me to it.
I now have two new Zoho accounts.
And, in response to an earlier post where someone suggested adding a memo in the signature field of G-Mail indicating why there are poor stylings and such in written messages, yes -- I already agreed with you.
I now have such a signature field. Mine reads more or less like this, with appropriate highlights and colours where useful:
"As a result of the complete lack of interest by Google Mail [G-Mail] in accommodating users by returning to the previous compose functions, like others I am exploring options for changing e-mail accounts. When my address changes I will inform my correspondents. For now, this one is still working.
NOTE: Any formatting or addressing errors or inconsistencies are a direct result of the completely useless new interface which limits visibility of necessary information and functions. This is 100% the result of Google Mail [G-Mail] and the new interface. I check as carefully as I can, but the lack of usable interface limits what can be easily seen and managed."
I am a business user and if this doesn't change FAST I will be leaving G-Mail by the end of the month.
Any formatting or addressing errors or inconsistencies are a direct result of the completely useless new interface which limits visibility of necessary information and functions.
1. Easy access to formatting options because I use them nearly every time I send an email.
2. More space to write, review, and revise my (long) messages because "full-screen" isn't much better than a glorified chatbox and I'd rather not compose in a new tab or window.
3. Attachments at the top of a draft rather than at the bottom, so that it's immediately visible to me when I prepare an email or open a draft.
4. Icons are a less effective form of communication than words and they seem a little squished. When I press the "+", the options are nearly on top of one another.
As it is, the new compose is less intuitive, efficient, and (in my opinion) attractive than the old compose. I have issues now that I didn't have with the old interface and I've derived no benefit in exchange for the inconvenience. Even if the design appealed to me, I'd never sacrifice functionality for an aesthetic improvement.
I am incredibly reluctant to leave Gmail because though I’ve disliked every “improvement” over the last two years, I have years of my life stored here. I felt the same when I moved from Yahoo! to Gmail (due to a computer issue rather than any problem with their UI), however, and I managed with the right incentive. If Gmail doesn’t introduce the option to revert to the old compose (or Compose 1.0, if you prefer) permanently or at the very least, allow me to customize compose, then the new compose might be reason enough for me to abandon the service. Right now, I’m on the fence, but I won't wait forever for the needs-driven innovation and attention to detail--and to the user--that once characterized my experience with Gmail. If my email doesn't serve me, then why waste my time on it?
(or Compose 1.0, if you prefer)
On Monday, August 26, 2013 9:56:09 AM UTC-7, A. Rose wrote:
1. Easy access to formatting options because I use them nearly every time I send an email.
2. More space to write, review, and revise my (long) messages because "full-screen" isn't much better than a glorified chatbox and I'd rather not compose in a new tab or window.
I am incredibly reluctant to leave Gmail because though I’ve disliked every “improvement” over the last two years, I have years of my life stored here.
I know I've asked before, but the chances of getting a reply on this are probably slim... is anything being done to fix things with sending tables,
Gmail has never supported inserting tables in the composer, so the solution to that is the same as it has always been. You need to use an email client with a better editor. (I use Thunderbird when I need advanced editing features. It provides tables, more type of lists and direct HTML editing.)No, it's not the same - at all. Trust me. I've been using tables in my mails for at least 5 years. I know the difference :)
sending mails to multiple recipients,
I don't have any problem with that. It works like it always has.No it does not, sorry. CC 9 people, you will see 3 in the CC field and then "and 6 more". To check and make sure everyone who needs to be CC'd is indeed CC'd, you need to click in the CC field to see them all, You then see their names, not their full email address. You then have to hover over each name to see the email address (some of my contacts have multiple emails, personal and business, so I always like to double check and make sure I have not selected the wrong email for anyone).Before: Simply glance in the CC field and check.
and the ability to remove people's full names from the TO field?
This is a little tricky, but it can be done when necessary. You can edit the name and address if you double-click on the "chip", but Gmail will restore the name if you simply delete it, but you can enter another value, including a space, to prevent that. So, edit the contact and enter " " (including the quotes") and you can send without a name.I know and use the trick, but it does not make my mails look very professional :)
They have not simplified they have made it more complicated to use Gmail. Period.
They have employed dimwits to come up with this POS and they have dimwits to approve it.
Jesus "furnace" Christ, just leave this shit alone
go invent something else, go intern at Microsoft.
"do no google"
a strap line for the next generation.
This changed interface must be reverted as soon as possible!
Users of small-screen mobile devices and big-screen desktops are fundamentally different, and have fundamentally-different needs and preferences. A user that has a big screen is not real-estate limited, and we WANT all those icons, sender address, re line, cc recipients, formatting buttons, and the like to be visible and stay visible.
The new interface seems like it would be great for small-screen mobile users. That's not me. For me (and for most big-screen desktop users) the new interface sucks.
I do not like the new user interface. Not one little bit.
Old one is perfect, I hate this minimalistic new compose window.
Thanks
If Gmail can provide this on a Smartphone, then please bring this feature back for our Desktops!!
I haven't refused to use the new tab or window options; I simply consider them a marginal improvement on the chatbox!compose and one that clutters my browser more rather than less. Compared to old compose, they're absolute rubbish, but perhaps I should've articulated my specific issues with full-screen rather than dismiss it out-of-hand.
I definitely understand that. There's a lot I love about Gmail, but with every update/innovation, there's less and less of it, so at this point, it's six of one, half dozen of the other for me unless Google offers an alternative to the new compose and from the comments (or lack thereof) that Jason Cornwell has made on the subject since his vehement defence of his design, I take it there are no plans to do so. Obviously, I'd be only too happy if I were wrong.
ETA: If basic HTML were a little less, well, basic, I'd switch to it in a heartbeat, but the last time I used it, it affected the format of my paragraphs and I like to put my best foot forward in professional communication in particular.
Slow to type -- the cursor can't keep up with me and it's made it unusable.
There are soem design flaws here.
Terri
You could not have said it any better. I hope they wake up.
Gil
I know I've asked before, but the chances of getting a reply on this are probably slim... is anything being done to fix things with sending tables,Gmail has never supported inserting tables in the composer, so the solution to that is the same as it has always been. You need to use an email client with a better editor. (I use Thunderbird when I need advanced editing features. It provides tables, more type of lists and direct HTML editing.)
No, it's not the same - at all. Trust me. I've been using tables in my mails for at least 5 years. I know the difference :)
Gmail has never supported tables in the composer, so nothing has changed there. We could not compose with tables before and we cannot compose with tables now. If you were using cut-and-paste to insert tables, ask KeithR suggested, you can still do that.
I don't have any problem with that. It works like it always has.
No it does not, sorry. CC 9 people, you will see 3 in the CC field and then "and 6 more". To check and make sure everyone who needs to be CC'd is indeed CC'd, you need to click in the CC field to see them all, You then see their names, not their full email address. You then have to hover over each name to see the email address (some of my contacts have multiple emails, personal and business, so I always like to double check and make sure I have not selected the wrong email for anyone).
Before: Simply glance in the CC field and check.
OK, that is clearer. You do not have an issue with addressing or sending to multiple recipients, you have an issue with the display. That has been noted, but no fix is in sight.
As for seeing the names vs. the email address. If you have multiple email addresses for a name, Gmail will display the address (or, in some cases, the domain) in the chip. There is no need to hover or click to reveal the address.
This is a little tricky, but it can be done when necessary. You can edit the name and address if you double-click on the "chip", but Gmail will restore the name if you simply delete it, but you can enter another value, including a space, to prevent that. So, edit the contact and enter " " (including the quotes") and you can send without a name.
I know and use the trick, but it does not make my mails look very professional :)
Can you explain then, what you want to do? You asked about removing the names, but now claim that it is unprofessional to include only the email address. You could leave part of the name or change it to a different name. If that is your goal, you can even set it up in your contacts.
sending mails to multiple recipients,
and the ability to remove people's full names from the TO field?
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Still Lara via Gmail wrote:What I want to do? I want to REMOVE the names of people from the TO field, like we used to be able to do before this disaster came to be, I don't want to have to replace them with quotation marks or whatnot. I simply do not want to use their full names, and I don't want to look like an idiot sending quotation marks to our customers. Whatever the hell happened to respect for people's privacy?
while the new compose is frustrating, i can learn to work around it with the shift+compose feature.
but we do so much more than just compose...what about reply/fwd email where i need to change the subject?
i'm not complaining about learning something new/breaking old habits (i like new stuff!) it's about the fact that something that used to be readily available is now a click or two away - like editing the subject in a reply...i have to figure that out every time and it's two clicks away vs one.
the bottom line is it's inefficient and frankly, just not intuitive. everything that was front and center seems to now be hidden...
work with us, please!
Sorry, I thought you had tried it. When you send the message with an address like " " <us...@example.com>, Gmail will only place us...@example.com in the address field of the message that is sent. The empty quoted string is not included. (I tested this several times, to be sure that it was not a fluke.)
Awful in Chrome on work and home computer.
Okay in Firefox.
Don't use IE8 much.
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Still Lara via Gmail wrote:How it works now:The first part is exactly the same. I start in my drive, email to my personal account and forward to my work account. Click forward, change a couple things and save as draft. All of that works the same, but then it start being different.After I've saved it as a draft, I can still go back and add more. This too is not different than it used to be.The problem is at the end when I'm ready to send it. For the life of me, I cannot find where to edit the subject. Don't get me wrong, I know where it is and I've tried it in other mails sent with the new compose, just to test it out, but in these particular mails (after clicking forward, saving as draft and go back to it later), I honestly cannot find a way to edit the subject.
On Monday, August 26, 2013 2:00:05 PM UTC-7, Still Lara wrote:My biggest gripe is the names, but lemme try that out. If I can send emails without names and the quotation marks are not showing, I am all set.
On Monday, August 26, 2013 2:25:34 PM UTC-7, Still Lara wrote:@bkennellyWell I'll be darned. You are right. I know what my mistake was and you are 100% correct. Sorry for taking up your time with this (I was searching for the little arrow in the TO field that you click and then select edit subject). I don't know if I can get any more stupid than this, and I stand corrected :)
My biggest gripe is the names, but lemme try that out. If I can send emails without names and the quotation marks are not showing, I am all set.
As always, there is a catch. Don't remove the names until you are ready to send. If you save as a draft and reopen it, the blank names will be restored from Contacts.
Don't feel stupid. We are all a little dizzy from the changes to Gmail and Chat this year, and it is easy to miss the obvious while looking for the hidden.
1 Go to this link:
https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=html&zy=h
( and here is an article describing more details on how the link above works: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/15049?hl=en )
2 click on "Set basic HTML as default view" in the yellow banner near the top of the page and you are set.
You will now have Gmail's look and functionality of a few years back but will save you tons of time and aggravation!
Click in the address bar and as long as your additional addresses are associated they will be there. From is shown.
"Your obviously never used email for productive purposes before. Bye."
YOUR obviously can't take a joke, or use spell check. Jackass
Working in mine. The menu arrow is shown at the right hand end of the From address.
For some reason there is NO "menu arrow is shown at the right hand end of the From address."
But I just randomly clicked on the right as you told and out popped the options.
TyTy...anything to stay with gmail
Now if only they would give a way to change your name in emails to this (yowsah) instead of what I had temporarily signed up with Google+ I would consider them much less evil...but thats another thread
this is only on reply, not on new compose:
maybe there is another thread for this
this is so screwedup...last time they gave us an option to revert.
gmail is going the way of windows metro...just KISS and forget the colored buttons already !
But my main gripe is the inability to change the FROM email id. I have 10 email ids associated to one account, and this is fking things up my correspondence.
Earlier it was that irrespective of which email you send from, the main account email id is also sent.
this is what happens when they let a bunch of interns loose on a perfectly good product.
maybe its back to yahoo crap for me after all.
this is horrible - went to yahoo & hotmail, they both so unashamedly mimic gmail
while yahoo still has loads and loads of spam and they sell your email id the second you register, hotmail's interface was nicer, less clutter, but when I tried to create a new email id, havent they heard of ajax...stupid register new email page does a submit each time returning with 'not available' and each friggin time I have to enter a new captcha. maybe I will go back to lycos or excite or maybe rr.com too
If you don't see the From: then you don't have additional addresses to choose from. It's not considered necessary if you don't have the options as it would have to use your default address.
yowsah,
No problem.
Google cites usage of user metrics (Lord Cornwell alluded to it in his infamous interview, if memory serves me right). However, the trick is in interpreting the data. Should designers consider the raw number of users sending one/two line emails or the volume of email (re email size) that's sent? If you've read some of the posts here, work & business related emails seem to be the ones that tend to be longer than one or two lines.
So, the question here is: by tailoring the design to the group that tends to send short emails, isn't that shortchanging those who use Gmail for business/professional purposes?
Then consider the age demographic. I've read posts here from users who appear to be in the senior citizen class. The new design is hard for them. Did the designers consider that at all? It doesn't appear so at all. If you recall, that was the case with the daft icons-only buttons that showed up in the "new look" initially. The designers were the same, Lord Cornwell & his cohorts. What was usability testing doing? Apparently, asleep at the switch.
I've said this time and again - usability testing for Gmail has larger holes in it than those which sank the Titanic! Now, it also looks like the Gmail folks aren't too swift when it comes to analyzing & interpreting data
There's a very simple fundamental truth in business - if a co doesn't provide what their customers want, a competitor surely will. American automakers of the 70s & 80s come to mind. We all know how that ended and where things stand now.
No we don't expect Google to be responsive. They express from the beginning that they own this and we are free users. When something better comes along.....
You're getting that the wrong way round. Most gmail users are probably those with little use for anything more than typing minimalistic notes. The ones who send the most and utilise the formatting tools are probably in the minority. It takes a lot of mail to be sent by the minority to equal the once a week email sent by the remainder of the 450,000,000.
You're getting that the wrong way round. Most gmail users are probably those with little use for anything more than typing minimalistic notes. The ones who send the most and utilise the formatting tools are probably in the minority. It takes a lot of mail to be sent by the minority to equal the once a week email sent by the remainder of the 450,000,000.
On Monday, August 26, 2013 10:04:17 PM UTC-4, nsrao wrote:The new gmail, especially the compose feature is getting on the nerves of most gmail users, the 'small home business users' being the most hard hit. There is need to quickly acknowledge a communication and use cc or bcc feature. Actually the old gmail features were great. Could do things in half a minute and get going with work to earn bread!. The new feature is demanding in time and effort, upsetting the functionality and productivity. Request google to kindly allow us to use the old feature and let us get on with our lives peacefully,,,,,,,,,please
Before the change in the Compose feature, I have never heard anyone (be they light or heavy users) dislike it.
Now, assuming for the sake of argument that Google intended to cater to light users (which may not be the case since they never explained their logic besides making it "better") they have antagonized part of their established base for no gain.
That is not good business.
When you have a product that is liked by all, why would you decide to only cater to part of your "customers"?
Full-screen: If you would like a centered compose box with formatting options automatically expanded, use full screen mode. You can enable this as your default view by clicking on the bottom right corner arrow of your compose box and selecting Default to full-screen.
Pop-out: If you would like to open a new window to compose your message, hold the Shift key while you click Compose.
New tab: If you would like to open a new tab to compose your message, hold the Ctrl or ⌘ key while you click Compose.
On Monday, August 26, 2013 10:27:23 PM UTC-4, e-rex wrote:Ha! Found myself on my dad's old "unsupported" Explorer, and voila the old interface -- so refeshing: composing mid-screen instead of neck-bending blind bottom screen. Hurrah some white space; hurrah that I can scroll down and check the email I'm responding to; hurrah that I can edit subject while replying. Etc.
No we don't expect Google to be responsive. They express from the beginning that they own this and we are free users. When something better comes along.....
With Google making these crazy changes to gmail (essentially trying to change it into a texting service), one can only ask what is next? James Fallows had a post on Gmail entitled: "Update on 2 Menaces to Society: Gmail Design Team, and Tipping Culture" The one thing that always kept me with Gmail was its excellent spam filter, but these latest changes are just too much. Hope that Google comes to its senses and reintroduces an email compose box.
I personally don't believe it is permanent because I don't think teenagers will consider the current Gmail superior to actual texting, and I don't believe real users of email can tolerate the mindless waste of their time caused by the recent changes. The people responsible for this mess are simply trying to cover their behinds by telling everyone it is permanent. If Google loses hits as a result of the new changes, it will be forced to acknowledge reality. Right now the designers of this mess are simply delusional and simply trying to blunt criticism.
Sounds like Lord Cornwell has never heard of texting. Quite a few people I know use texting for exactly the same reasons, i.e. "Wanna do lunch?" Exactly how many users use the email mechanism to send such emails?
It rather looks like business analysts and usability testing play little part, if any, in what the Gmail folks dump on unsuspecting users.
There's been tons of feedback on these hallowed fora already about the new Compost and a miniscule amount is positive. Isn't that feedback enough? Or are they still collecting data about how irritated users are with this ridiculous new change?
I will go to the LINKS recommended for tutorials or take some GMAIL classes, or not...maybe I'll just go back to Lycos, remember Lycos? Seriously, I thought my learning curve for GMAIL was complete...I'm now in the ROKU learning curve and have hence put GMAIL learning way, way, way behind me along w/my Tripod Website and Lycos. GMAIL WAS efficient and clear and I was extremely satisfied, so much so that I 'dropped my Yahoo account'and all my other email accounts. But this Romper Room they released just so some new 'Coder' fresh out of 'Coder School' can justify his position at "Google" makes me long for Lycos/Yahoo/Hotmail old school. I am back RE-learning GMAIL for reasons that are not entirely clear. So, guess what , I've logged back into Yahoo for the first time in YEARS. Good job Google.
-"If Its Not Broken Don't Fix It"
MEANING: Humans seem to have the urge to improve things.
DEFINITION: If something is working adequately well, leave it alone
bkc, there's a fallacy here.
I've given up hoping Google will allow us to revert to the old compose window, but I hope they can at least move the file attachments to the top instead of the end of an email. Currently, we need to move back and forth to check the file attachments and it's such a nuisance.
I think the designer team does not need to attach files in a long email and cannot understand the pain.
> This new compose feature is going to make me go some where else for my mail. It won't send multiple pictures and slows things down.
>
> At least continue to give us an option to go back!
I agree and for some reason I can't even attach my pictures except for a few that show up. When I click on browse it only shows a few pictures and I have hundreds that are not showing up. Never had that problem before.
The one thing that always kept me with Gmail was its excellent spam filter, but these latest changes are just too much. Hope that Google comes to its senses and reintroduces an email compose box.
I've given up hoping Google will allow us to revert to the old compose window
Thanks
Then I could still use gmail but with a much better interface. The compose window looks excellent.
I just still need to check if the chats work
For use with Firefox
On Tuesday, 27 August 2013 14:26:18 UTC+10, Magdeline Primrose wrote:I cannot make an effective computer printout from this new gmail composition format.
2) the new compose is slower and buggier; "save" is more unreliable than the save button in the old compose
3) even in full screen, the new compose has *way less space* than the old one. This is very annoying when using gmail for work.
On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 12:55:22 AM UTC-4, templescroll wrote:When I click REPLY, the SENDER's name is auto. filled in for me but NO CC or BCC or SUBJECT in the post or header? Its a mystery.
Try clicking in the Address box and CC and BCC will be to the right. If not try clearing your cache or running the browser with no add ons or extensions.
The optional expanded Compose window now has the format bar in it and can be made the default. In case you missed how to do the changes here they are:
The new compose is a nightmare. Is there a way to revert to the old version?
Annette
have a look at http://gmail-tips.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/changes-to-gmail-compose.html it explains in detail how the new compose works.
I don't like the way attachments are way at the bottom now.
The other day I selected five files to attach. For some reason only four of them made it into the email. It was a good thing I double checked, which is now more difficult than ever. The attachments were partially covered by something else (some pop up or menu).... making it really difficult to see the last one and determine for sure if that 5th file made it or not.
Come on Gmail, are you really going to let the volunteers push this pile O sheet onto the world? For such a large organization, this whole new "experience" thing isn't being handled very well. I get the impression that the serious users are no longer Google's concern. Perhaps it costs more for Google when people use their email services for more serious purposes, attaching files etc. More server space is required to store all of the data. Is it all about the bottom line? Just come on out and let us know so that we can move on.
Unfortunately GMail's compose is now anything but intuitive.
I've always thought the best philosophy for UI design was to keep it simple, but functional: the secret is to make something that won't overwhelm the novice user, but at the same time doesn't slow down the expert user. One way of doing this is to use visual cues, like pin-lines, labels, dividers, and judicious use of whitespace, to help the eye compartmentalise and navigate an interface. These cues should be subtle enough so they register on the eye, but not so bold as to make the UI look harsh like something from the 1980s (light grey on white probably isn't strong enough!) Unfortunately GMail's new compose adopts an almost zen-like minimalism to its interface. It submerges visual hints like the "To" and "Subject" labels, which provide 'landmarks' that subliminally help even familiar users to scan the UI. This is compounded by the flattened design, further reducing the visual signals that help the eye navigate. The user is now more consciously forced to think about what each large anonymous white rectangle on the UI does, and where one rectangle ends and the other starts (whose divider lines are far too subtle for such a bare bones UI!)
The next principle is to balance the UI so all the most commonly used tools are easily available. Expert users need don't want to jump through hoops to access things they do frequently: they want the button or the menu or whatever to be right there, ready and waiting. This is a fine balancing act: each control should be considered carefully and justified; one must not clutter the UI with superfluous distractions, but at the same time one must recognise AN ULTRA-MINIMALIST DESIGN NEVER SERVES THE EXPERT USER WELL.
Next, controls should generally be placed where the user expects them, which is often where convention dictates. For example, conventionally formatting controls are placed above the edit pane, not below it, so this is where the eye will instinctively first look for them. If you put controls in an unusual place, people will eventually get used to your new location but it will forever feel unnatural. The same goes for infrequently used controls -- the one's that are not on permanent display -- they need to be in an intuitive place, where 'intuitive' is often determined by convention of what other similar applications do. Hiding them on a submenu of an anonymous grey icon in the corner of a window is not a good idea.
To sum up: when designing a UI one needs to understand precisely what expert/frequent users want and give it to them, while not complicating the design with things they don't want or don't care about (no matter how "cool" they may seem to you!) This rationalised approach, I've personally found, often serves both expert users and novice users well. You need to work WITHIN USER EXPECTATIONS -- avoid novelty for the sake of novelty, and cleverness for the sake of cleverness (another point that serves both expert and novice audiences.) It is better to be conventional and intuitive, than distinctive and confusing. Provide enough visual cues to help the novice user, but don't forget that even regular users rely on mundane things like labels and other paraphernalia too, as landmarks that help them scan the UI.
A good UI is intuitive -- the application itself may require documentation, but it's UI shouldn't. The problem with GMail's compose is that it is too minimalist, too clever, and too counter-intuitive.
I can edit subject with an easy click, I can cc and bcc and attach. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Just so much easier to navigate, and not just bc we were used to it -- although we were used to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree with your points. In fact, if Google can make more money catering to teenagers, more power to them. I and many others will move on to a service that respects and provides a real email system.
What I dislike is the disrespect, bordering on contempt, that companies like Google and Microsoft have for their customers. Anyone who reads the financial news knows that Google is spooked by Facebook. The new compose is obviously an attempt by Google to gain ground against Facebook. Instead of stating that, Google disingenuously states that the new compose is an improvement of its email, when it isn’t. Google is trying to jam a downgrade on its serious users, when anyone knows there are no improvements in the email functionality of the new compose. This is very similar to Microsoft trying to sell Apps on Windows 8, while falsely claiming that Windows 8 is an improvement on Windows 7, when in fact Windows 8 provides no benefits to computer users. Also Google’s log on statement for gmail “Experience the ease and simplicity of Gmail, everywhere you go.” is a joke.
The utter worthlessness of the new compose is highlighted by Icantchoosesomeone’s citation of an article explaining the new compose in Gmail Miscellany. Even the author there can’t explain what the changes are for; he simply explains what the changes (really downgrades) are.
This is an asinine change which is going to force me to use a client after many years of mostly hassle free use, which is not something I thought I would have to do with web based mail.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
On Tuesday, 27 August 2013 06:50:55 UTC-4, The C Man (Elder Advisor - Mobile Laureate) wrote:
> Toni,
>
> The optional expanded Compose window now has the format bar in it and can be made the default. In case you missed how to do the changes here they are:
"The C Man" your included images also include the option to "temporarily" revert back to the old compose screen. Either you have something no one else has, or you have a very old screen shot.
If you have that option to revert back, kindly tell the rest of us where it is on our screens.
Thanks!
Every time I reply to mail in Google , it just disappears.
I know where to find it In Drafts but this happens 5 or 6 times writing 1 mail. very, very, frustrating.
The old system worked so well, why touch it.
David B
If you have that option to revert back, kindly tell the rest of us where it is on our screens.
Every time I reply to mail in Google , it just disappears.
The philosophical idea "to permit people write shorter messages" is the biggest BS I have heard.
If that was the intent they should have implemented the chat function better not nuke the mail. They missed the target! Actually since they own the Chrome browser they could have implemented a better chat right into the browser for those who want it...
I might not use an interface for all its functions all the time, but it will suck ALL the time if it doesn't easily allow me the freedom to choose how I work.
I know exactly how the new compose works, it is not that I don't know how to use it, it is the implementation, it is how it works and looks that hurts so bad. It is built on a fantasy notion that the email service needs to compete with mobile, with SMS, and try capture "new" users - ideally younger users.
Had the new interface been intuitive, easy to use and voluntary we would not be venting in here.
As someone with a degree in product design I can tell you for sure the Gmail Design Team are failing miserably. Example: If the user is forced to make choices that does not produce more writing (decide how big the window needs to be, click on the interface to make options available etc) you are doing something very wrong, wasting enormous amounts of cumulative time and alienating everybody using the interface.
The reason the old mail compose has (basically) looked and functioned the same over 10 years is because it works. Because it is good. People has chosen it. Instead, The Gmail Design Team has decided to say "F*** you users!" and give you the new compose message interface that makes all the things you do to write an email much less easy to do.
Thank you to S.E Morris's post from three hours ago summed it up very well as did John Dailys of 1 hour ago.
Sorry but that was the screen shot at the time. Thanks for pointing it out. Check this one out for me please.
Please don't delude yourselves into thinking that all these complaints are the result of typical confusion during a UI transition. While some of that may be the case, most of the complaints I'm seeing are not issues of lost functionality but of design and convenience.
Here are some of the issues I have with the new UI:
1. Inconsistent field behaviors. When I click on the "To" field, the cursor appears to the right of the label. When I click on the "Subject" field, the cursor appears to the left (label disappears when text is entered).
2. You've replaced the standard text fields with horizontal lines, evidently in an effort to make it look more like paper for some reason. This is VERY vistually confusing, particularly for less tech-savvy users. It makes it hard to know when you're supposed to click.
Unless you've decided to revive Google Paper, I can't think of any rational use-case for this change other than, "We thought it would look cool." Well, it doesn't.
3. The top field says "Recipients" but changes to "To" when you click on it. Whose bright idea was that?! Again, it just looks bad and can only lead to confusion (e.g. "You told me to click on the "To" field, but all I see is "Recipients").
4. WTF would I want to be forced to look at the lower right corner of my screen to type a message?! This isn't Skype and it isn't SMS. If I wanted to have to type in a tiny text area, I'd use my phone. And yes, I realize you have that popout button, which leads us to....
5. The "popout" button doesn't actually pop-out. Instead, it just centers the compose area and makes it slightly bigger. It's still way too tiny, particularly when I'm dealing with lengthy emails that involve specification overviews. I also don't like the fact that it doesn't remember my pop-out prefs. I have to click the stupid thing every single time! It's really annoying.
6. There's no option to revert to the classic compose view. WTF not?! What possible business objective are you satisfying by denying that to your most loyal, long-time users? Do you know why I avoid Apple products? Because they're always pulling UI shit like this! They believe it's their sacred duty to force everyone to conform to what they thing looks good because they know best.
Seriously, if you tell me something along the lines of, "You'll learn to like it," I swear I'm gonna have an aneurysm or something!
Nobody is forcing you to look at the bottom right of the screen as the option to default to the expanded version is available.
Fair enough. So then, here's my updated list with the part about the default option removed:
1. Inconsistent field behaviors. When I click on the "To" field, the cursor appears to the right of the label. When I click on the "Subject" field, the cursor appears to the left (label disappears when text is entered).
2. You've replaced the standard text fields with horizontal lines, evidently in an effort to make it look more like paper for some reason. This is VERY vistually confusing, particularly for less tech-savvy users. It makes it hard to know when you're supposed to click.
Unless you've decided to revive Google Paper, I can't think of any rational use-case for this change other than, "We thought it would look cool." Well, it doesn't.
3. The top field says "Recipients" but changes to "To" when you click on it. Whose bright idea was that?! Again, it just looks bad and can only lead to confusion (e.g. "You told me to click on the "To" field, but all I see is "Recipients").
4. WTF would I want to be forced to look at the lower right corner of my screen to type a message?! This isn't Skype and it isn't SMS. If I wanted to have to type in a tiny text area, I'd use my phone. And yes, I realize you have that popout button, which leads us to....
5. The "popout" button doesn't actually pop-out. Instead, it just centers the compose area and makes it slightly bigger. It's still way too tiny, particularly when I'm dealing with lengthy emails that involve specification overviews.
6. There's no option to revert to the classic compose view. WTF not?! What possible business objective are you satisfying by denying that to your most loyal, long-time users? Do you know why I avoid Apple products? Because they're always pulling UI shit like this! They believe it's their sacred duty to force everyone to conform to what they thing looks good because they know best.
As you can see, it's still a rather long list.
You seem to assume that because Google is run for profit and hasn't gone bankrupt yet, it means all their decisions are correct.
That is of course impossible.
First of all, the consequences of their current mistake with gmail won't become obvious to us until months, perhaps years from now (as Google will certainly not voluntarily offer any data showing any effect of their mistake).
However, as far as being the beginning of something bad for Google, I'll venture to say that the new Compose is part of a pattern that has already seen Yahoo pass Google back to the #1 destination.
I know recently I switched my Financial research from Google to Yahoo as Google Finance was "improved" and rendered useless for financial news.
I will similarly be forced to use myYahoo when iGoogle terminates, and the bad taste in my mouth left by the "we will not change it no matter how many people ask for it" caused me to revisit Bing as a search engine and discover Bing was willing to reward me for searches in addition to having a more pleasing interface.
If you're mad at Google about gmail, try using Bing search. You may never come back to google search....
I still use Google search for shopping etc... as I am not cutting my nose to spite Google, but to me there is a clear pattern, and that pattern has already started to cost google.
New feature destroys my workflow. Can't do what I used to anymore.
1) The powers that be at Gmail actually hear the "rounding error users" and make some changes (beileve it or not, that is actually what someone from Google referred to the thousands of users voicing their complaints - as a 'rounding error'!) or
2) Hell freezes over. I have already stocked up plenty of firewood, coats, mufflers, mittens and socks.
PS: I'm glad to know I'm not the ONLY one who shortens my windows!
On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 2:44:32 PM UTC-5, T. Cook wrote:The expanded version is completely insufficient for my workflow. I shorten my email windows so I have more vertical real estate. This used to work fine. Now look at it. Before, this was more than enough space to compose an email...AND, I still had chat windows (which the new tab / new window don't), AND I had all the advanced formatting options.New feature destroys my workflow. Can't do what I used to anymore.
What Gmail is now trying to do is basically circumvent this by saying, "We think this is the ideal amount of space for typing a message, so we're going to create our own special AJAX 'window' (div/whatever) that uses up to a percentage of the available space within the parent browser window."
You guys are trying too hard to be edgy and hip. This whole UI change seems to be a solution in search of a problem. I don't mind updating to current standards and tweaking some aesthetics now and then, but what you guys did here goes WAY beyond the scope of that!
I shorten my email windows so I have more vertical real estate.
It puts you a bit too far back in time, IMHO, but at least I can write and send replies quickly and without the latency effect that I and many others seem to get.
If figure if Google doesn't wake up and smell the coffee on this in the next week or two, I'm dumping them for an alternative such as Yahoo...
Me and my coworkers have given it a good try. We are technically adept with this stuff. Creating some training documents about it will not fix its basic design problems.
I am UNCOMFORTABLE using Gmail for work email now, because you have to click so much to change subject, double-check recipients, see previous text, etc. And the window sizing is a joke. Full screen is totally not full screen. I am going to have to switch BACK to Outlook to avoid making mistakes when composing/sending work emails. I was really liking the ability to assign multiple labels to emails in Gmail, but will have to give that up now.
Point by point:
- When you click in the To field To: will still be active as you can click on it to bring up all of your Contacts and choose from them so the cursor goes to the right of it. When you click in the Subject field the word Subject will not be included in the Subject line and is over written. Both make sense to me.
- I'm not sure what you see as horizontal lines. There are no lines in my text box in any direction.
- Recipient means just that, those you are sending to. To: is an active menu which is the reason for the change.
- That's the one you were going to remove which you should have been able to by highlighting the complete section and hitting the delete key in your reply.
- Hold down Ctrl or Shift while clicking on Contact and see what happens.
- Google, in it's infinite wisdom, evidently decided that after 5 months of giving users a chance to try out the new compose there was not enough hatred of it to warrant keeping the old version. A few of the posters in the forum fought a battle together with the majority of the TC's against the new version being released as it was which is why we now have the default opening option and the format bar on display when the larger options are chosen.
If more had heeded the warnings and come looking for the forum to complain before the option to revert was removed we might still have that option. We would not have been able to keep it forever but we might have been able to have got a more usable new version before the option was removed.
On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 3:51:15 PM UTC-7, Gail D wrote:The new compose is really inconvenient as you do not have the original message directly below, so you have to look at the original message each time to see what you are responding to. This will not work for my business, and I think we should have the option to revert back to the old compose, or the new one should be altered to have this same facility.
> When you click in the To field To: will still be active as you can click on it to bring up all of your Contacts and choose from them so the cursor goes to the right of it. When you click in the Subject field the word Subject will not be included in the Subject line and is over written. Both make sense to me.
Individually, yes, they do make sense. But not together. Inconsistency, particularly between two adjacent fields, invites user confusion and also just looks unprofessional.
> I'm not sure what you see as horizontal lines.
See attached "[Gmail Forum] Re Post Feedback Here on New Compose Options Pt 2 - kris.png" screenshot.
> Recipient means just that, those you are sending to. To: is an active menu which is the reason for the change.
I didn't say I don't know what "Recipient" and "To:" mean. I said it looks really, really bad to have the label for that text field alternate between the two. If Google is trying to establish some new standard where text labels are also used to denote active menus via changing text, I would call that a massive FAIL.
> If more had heeded the warnings and come looking for the forum to complain before the option to revert was removed we might still have that option.
Point taken.
> We would not have been able to keep it forever but we might have been able to have got a more usable new version before the option was removed.
Why should we not be able to keep it indefinitely? As the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Someday, I'm sure changes in technology and usage patterns would have necessitated a design adaptation. But that's not what happened here. This appears to be a completely arbitrary design overhaul under the banner of, "Newer == better!"
Web forms don't rust or begin to rot with age. The overwhelming majority of users liked the compose form the way it was. All use-cases were being met. This entire project has been a waste of personnel resources that could have been much better spent elsewhere. Google invested a lot of time and effort into creating a new interface that nobody asked for, nobody likes, and nobody wants. What business objectives are being fulfilled by this? It's this sort of arrogance that has caused the downfall of many other tech giants in the past.
WHY isn't there a way to make the "reply" into a pop-out?
If I want a pop-out window in "compose" view (I do. Google knows I do. They gave me that option), then why on earth wouldn't I want to have a pop-out window when I'm COMPOSING an email IN REPLY to someone??!?
A lot of the inconvenience created by the new reply feature could be easily overcome if there was a way to get the message to pop-out.
Hold down Shift as you click on Reply.
They are individual and it's near standard procedure. If you want something included in a field the cursor will follow it. If you don't want it in the field then you type over it.
They are margin borders. They are not in the text field but they do show the limits of the text field. If they were not others might keep typing in the Subject field. Not everybody is as clever as you at imagining the borders and knowing where to type what.
The web is changing and what might work this week may not next and the maintenance to keep it working may not warrant it. I preferred the old version but what we have now is still better and more functional than most other web based email services. You can still use the basic HTML Gmail which Google have kept running. Show me another company that has kept a really basic email service going while bringing in new versions. It's not Microsoft or Yahoo as far as I know.
I'm after further improvements to this iteration of Gmail but I won't cry for the old one which was good but not as good as the previous one to that. I'm making suggestions of what I would like to see in this versions such as having a scalable Expanded Compose window which I could make the default and the Upload and link tools stay alive once I have used one. I want to be able to insert more than one picture and more than one link in an email so having that bar disappear as soon as I'm not cursoring over it is a pain.
Start suggesting what would make the new version better and there may be enough voices to get a result.
Read the reply from Doree here: Reply from Doree a Google Employee
WYSIWIG (Palo Alto, Xerox PARC 1970) What you see is what you get.
GWYG (Mountain View, CA, Google 2013) Guess what you got!
Why do you think this is an improvement? Was there a patent issue that forced you to re-do a transparent interface? You can now create a business model in which users have the opportunity to pay you to get a usable interface.
Refs--
whatis.techtarget.com/definition/WYSIWYG-what-you-see-is-what-you-get
WYSIWYG is an acronym for "what you see is what you get". ... Invented by Charles Simonyi at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center in the 1970s
--from Michelle K. Gross
GWYG (2013, Google, Mountain View, CA) Guess you what got!
Now you can create a new business model: charge users who want the Classic interface. What percentage of users prefer to use a WYSIWYG template instead of pop-up menus? What percentage of users completes email more rapidly and more accurately using GWYG?
--Michelle K. Gross
Ref:
whatis.techtarget.com/definition/WYSIWYG-what-you-see-is-what-you-get
WYSIWYG is an acronym for "what you see is what you get". ... Invented by Charles Simonyi at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center in the 1970s
> They are individual and it's near standard procedure.
Says who? As I said, I've been in this industry a long time and I've seen no evidence that this behavior is consistent with any widely accepted standard.
> They are margin borders.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I know what they are. What I'm saying is that they look terrible and make the UI confusing for the end-user.
> The web is changing
Let me stop you right there. Sorry, but I have to call BS on that. Let's refrain from any cliche platitudes that nobody could possibly disagree with like, "The web is changing" or, "We need to keep innovating!" If you must, then you may as well just go all the way and end it with, "Think of the children!"
Ok, so I'm just going to cross-out that first part of the sentence in my mind.
> and what might work this week may not next and the maintenance to keep it working may not warrant it.
I'm not sure I agree with that, either. While the web is evolving, it's not so chaotic that we're seeing fundamental changes to acceptable design patterns on a weekly basis. It's much more gradual than that.
Besides, the old interface worked perfectly and I see no reason why it wouldn't be easily maintainable. If the code itself was a mess, that could have been rectified without changing the UI experience. Like I said earlier, there's simply no use-case-- at least, none that Google has offered or that I can think of-- that necessitates or even justifies this UI change.
If I had to make an educated guess, I'd say that someone at the mid-to-senior level decided to transition to a "whole new, sleek user experience" and this compose shit is the first step. Perhaps they think it'll all make sense once we see the "final picture." I've seen this more times than I can count. These initiatives usually come from executives and/or marketing folks with little to no actual engineering experience.
I can think of no other reason why Google would be completely ignoring 99% of their users who are saying not just that this new UI needs to be reworked, but that it should be scrapped completely. This is the sort of arrogance that permeates Apple and (to a lesser extent) Microsoft. And now Google seems to be following suit, which to me is very disappointing.
> I preferred the old version but what we have now is still better and more functional than most other web based email services.
But don't you see? That's just moving the goalpost! It's saying that we should be ok with this because, while it sucks, Gmail is still better than Yahoo! and AOL. I'm sorry, but I just can't bring myself to set the bar that low. I just can't.
> You can still use the basic HTML Gmail which Google have kept running. Show me another company that has kept a really basic email service going while bringing in new versions.
If they can do that, then why can't they leave the option for the old compose UI?
> It's not Microsoft or Yahoo as far as I know.
Like I said, that's setting the bar REALLY low!
> Start suggesting what would make the new version better and there may be enough voices to get a result.
Let's say you're driving a really nice Corvette. Then, one day, Chevy issues a mandatory recall (let's also pretend that not sending your Corvette to them is not an option).
You send your Corvette to them. A short time later, they ship you a rusty wheelbarrow full of horse shit. They say this is the sleek, new design and that your feedback is welcome. And no, you may not have your old model back. Why would you want it, anyway? You have a new Corvette, now! New is better!
So now, instead of driving around town in your kickass Vette, you're sitting in a wheelbarrow full of horse manure, pushing yourself down the street with a wooden oar. For some reason, you haven't had much luck picking-up hot babes since you got the new and improved model.
You finally get fed-up and post on their forum to complain along with the dozens or even hundreds of other similarly upset customers. One user posts this response:
"Start suggesting what would make the new version better and there may be enough voices to get a result."
What would you say to that user? What improvements would make the wheelbarrow full of horse shit less, well, shitty and as awesome as your previous model?
I've read that the purpose was to encourage shorter e-mails.
I just opened a yahoo account and I have to say that the yahoo interface is close to an ideal mail interface. The problem is that I have been using gmail for over 10 years, so it might be too much hassle to shift over. Forwarding of gmail to yahoo might be an option which I might try.
I preferred the old version but what we have now is still better and more functional than most other web based email services.
I have to change some times the subject when I reply to my customers - so I have to have any time the subject in front of my eyes in order to see when a change of subject is neccesary. In the last days I have forgotten to change the subject (when was neccesary) several times... Also the position where are shown the attachments (on bottom of draft instead on top as is normal...) is very uncomfortable - also I've forgotten several times in the last days to delete or change the attachment when I forwarded some emails and also it's difficult to scroll a lot to see the attachment when the message it's a reply of a looong message. These things I think should be changed in order to improve the user experience (subject has to be shown all time, position of attachments - and of course there are many others underlined by other guys in this thread) . Thanks
I have written to Google many times and don't feel up for another long list of reasons why I dislike the new interface, but in short nearly everything that was one button is now two mouse clicks, take spell check for example. Adding a cc address to my email. Instead of just clicking what I want I have to use two clicks, first to display the menu then to get the option that I want.
So again, for the hundredth time, PLEASE Google bring back the option for the old compose Window.
By the way, When I spoke to Google they mentioned that all posts with swearwords are Automatically ignored. So if in effect you 'vote' / voice doesn't get counted. I know this isn't a voting system but hopefully the more people complain the more they will listen.
Some 3rd party company can really make a good living if they can give us the old compose window as a lab or something. I will happily pay to have it back.
When all you do is reply to emails all day you want a user friendly email.
I do not understand why you could not upgrade but give people the choice to use the old format. It just reverted for me today and my first thought was that it will enable mistakes to be made. wrong emails sent to the wrong people as it is not as clear as the old version. I can't afford to make this mistake as it can mean a customer is lost as a result.
Additionally, I am wasting more time (you sell on this product says it will save you time) it doesn't! I need to see my whole email to then put a reply together for the recipient.
As someone else mentioned this formatting is for teenagers that want to text someone and it doesn't work in the business world.
I was already shattered my company left "Outlook" for 'Google Mail" and this has
just confirmed it.
GIVE US THE OPTION OF THE OLD FORMAT PLEASE!
Not Happy
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:15:12 PM UTC+2, Accounts Bahrain wrote:new copose mail is very difficult.Please give me the old version
have a look at http://gmail-tips.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/changes-to-gmail-compose.html it explains in detail how the new compose works.
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:39:04 PM UTC+2, mikemc3 wrote:They took away the ability to change the "New Compose" window!! Why? The old "Temporarily switch back" option is gone. If you don't like this then how can you switch back now?
As I said, the margin borders help those that cannot tell where each sector finishes. The don't show in the received amail in that way. The receiving system governs what is seen.
The web is changing and parts are no longer backwards compatible.
When the last iteration of Gmail came in users asked why they could not retain the option to revert to the previous one. That would mean there would now be a minimum of four versions running. It has to stop somewhere. Google maintains two which is more than any other email supplier.
Your last question. That's easy. A wheelbarrow with a charcoal filter cover to stop the small.
Just for you.
The optional expanded Compose window now has the format bar in it and can be made the default. In case you missed how to do the changes here they are:
The most constructive feedback is that email and chat are different functions and that the new compose is a disaster and is highly inefficient. No one knows whether it will come back or not. If Google loses customers at a big enough pace, it will come back. The proper response is sustained and unrelenting criticism of the obvious flaws of this downgrade to encourage Google to make useful products. As I stated before, even one of the people cited by you to explain compose (Gmail Miscellany) can't explain why it was changed in the manner that Google did it.
This is an improvement. However, the "full screen" format needs to be renamed "mock full screen" and the actual full screen layout we had previously needs to be restored within the same window (i.e. not creating a new tab). And then that be made the default for everyone to show that Google is listening (people can set their own defaults from there). Regardless of what Jason HornedWally (think Wally from Dilbert, with devil's horns) thinks, the old layout is NOT intimidating, is not a burden on me, a more casual user, and is actually preferred for even short messages such as, "Hey, let's do lunch".
Either way, I'm probably just going to use Thunderbird now. I'm THAT angry.
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:04:21 PM UTC+2, DaileyB wrote:No one knows whether it will come back or not
As I stated before, even one of the people cited by you to explain compose (Gmail Miscellany) can't explain why it was changed in the manner that Google did it.
Your defense of the downgrade is illogical. Google is forcefeeding chat on email in the same manner that Windows 8 is forcefeeding phone and tablet systems on the desktop. If Google wanted to increase its presence in the world of the new devices, it could have created a new chat system. Instead, it lacked the imagination and skill to do so. What it has done in its laziness and incompetence is force feed chat on email. Email is an important computing function, and it should be respected. Google has many buttons on the left side of its “standard” screen. It could have easily improved chat by adding another button if it wished. Instead it has tried to hijack email in a failed attempt to improve its chat functions.
Would add that your reference to 4 email systems is a straw man argument. No one here is arguing that Google should have to go way back. Additionally, virtually all companies doing business on the web have an Ipad, and Android and a desktop version. It would be very simple for Google to maintain an option to have a workable compose window, but a productive email system is apparently not a priority for Google anymore.
Well said!
Further to "The C Man"'s comment: "If more had heeded the warnings and come looking for the forum to complain before the option to revert was removed we might still have that option. We would not have been able to keep it forever but we might have been able to have got a more usable new version before the option was removed."
You have that rather twisted around, methinks. Certainly I, and many others, did indeed complain right from the start. Each and every time the stupid new interface was shoved down our throats there was a pop-up box allowing one to revert. If one did (and clearly that is what the vast majority did if the complaints are anything to go by) there was a second pop-up box asking why.
Maybe Google should have had that programmed so that the frequency of people reverting was actually part of the feedback even if the person didn't actively add a comment about the poor interface.
I'd like to see the figures for the total number of people/accounts who just kept clicking on "revert" and I suspect it was very high. That alone should have given Google the message -- but probably the so-called smart brains that were working on this stupidity weren't smart enough to put a simple counter on the thing.
Further to "icantchooseone"'s referencing links: well, yes, but as someone else has already pointed out, none of these people who are trying to provide such extensive help (and such help just shouldn't be necessary) have been able to explain exactly why the change ever took place.
More to the point, the links you provide do an excellent job of articulating exactly what people here are complaining about -- namely that it is no longer possible to do things clearly and straight-forwardly.
What was a decent functioning tool is now useless precisely because it is now necessary to go hunting for things that shouldn't be hidden in the first place; and precisely because it now takes several steps to do what could be done in one step before.
I have several G-Mail accounts and I will be closing all of them. My business has divisions, and each had a separate account (consolidated to dump to one account for my convenience) to keep things separate. So, once I close all my G-Mail accounts I, as one single user for both personal and business, will remove at least a dozen G-Mail accounts.
Pity not everyone could do the same -- Google would get the message much more quickly that way.
I've used Thunderbird for years anyhow, as I need off-line access to my e-mail while on aeroplanes (etc.), but I simply will not condone this disrespect of the user by continuing with G-Mail even in Thunderbird's much more usable interface because I won't promote by usage something that has such a poor customer service attitude.
These are just a few of my facts. Please switch it back to the way it was. This should have been an option not a permanent fix.
Bad move, Google.
So what, businesses (and politicians) change their mind all of the time when the real world intrudes on their mistakes.
Icantchooseone: quoting me "As I stated before, even one of the people cited by you to explain compose (Gmail Miscellany) can't explain why it was changed in the manner that Google did it. [then making own comment]
because we dont work for Google and arent privy to their plans"
If you are not privy to Google's plans, stop saying that the productive compose can't come back. This is classic illogical thinking.
On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 6:50:51 PM UTC-4, The C Man (Elder Advisor - Mobile Laureate) wrote:
> If more had heeded the warnings and come looking for the forum to complain before the option to revert was removed we might still have that option. We would not have been able to keep it forever but we might have been able to have got a more usable new version before the option was removed.
I'm going to answer this with a simple rebuttal.
Google made no effort to direct users here. Google chose to make users hunt down places to complain. This resulted in scattered complaints, complaints that the people posting them thought would be seen by Google. The problem is that the majority of those complaints WERE NOT SEEN. As a result, Google thought that these users, by not posting on their product forums, were happy.
Further, I WAS HERE when the new Compost first rolled out. I complained then. I found the old Compose option. I reverted to it. THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ENOUGH TO SHOW I DID NOT LIKE THE NEW COMPOST.
You left out the pertinent part of your previous post where you said that you weren't "privy" to Google's plans. If you aren't privy to Google's plans, please stop predicting what they will do in the future. If you want to say that you are not privy to Google's plans, but Google has said that it won't be changed go ahead. However, please stop acting as though it is totally out of the realm of possibility for Google to respond to customer input and to correct its mistake and restore a productive compose window.
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 4:41:02 PM UTC+2, John Daily wrote:icantchooseone: "Google employees say its not coming back has nothing to do with "can't explain why it was changed in the manner that Google did it"You left out the pertinent part of your previous post where you said that you weren't "privy" to Google's plans. If you aren't privy to Google's plans, please stop predicting what they will do in the future. If you want to say that you are not privy to Google's plans, but Google has said that it won't be changed go ahead. However, please stop acting as though it is totally out of the realm of possibility for Google to respond to customer input and to correct its mistake and restore a productive compose window.
This is my last response to you. Apparently, it is beyond your capabilities to realize that even though Google has said that they won't bring it back, they can change their mind. So by discounting any possibility that it won't come back you are making a prediction that they won't change their mind. Your exchange with me makes clear that you have little to offer to this issue and discussion.
that they are indeed iistening to feedback. Agree with John Daily that changes can be made and I remain hopeful that they will be made, especially and as long as people keep stating a need for change.
I quote:
"Ronna, first of all, thank you so much for starting a thread to gather constructive feedback :)
Please be confident that we'll make it a point to summarize the points brought out on this thread and share it with the product and engineering teams who built this feature. Some of them might also drop in and leave their comments directly. So, please hang in there.
And keep the constructive feedback coming!"
Keep up the feedback people, let your voice be heard! And post your constructive ideas here: https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!category-topic/gmail/FNpFCOHwyxw
re:
icantchooseone: im not predicting - Google have said on this forum that its not coming back
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 4:41:02 PM UTC+2, John Daily wrote:
icantchooseone: "Google employees say its not coming back has nothing to do with "can't explain why it was changed in the manner that Google did it"
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 4:55:27 PM UTC+2, John Daily wrote:icantchooseone: "Google employees say its not coming back has nothing to do with "can't explain why it was changed in the manner that Google did it'"This is my last response to you. Apparently, it is beyond your capabilities to realize that even though Google has said that they won't bring it back, they can change their mind. So by discounting any possibility that it won't come back you are making a prediction that they won't change their mind. Your exchange with me makes clear that you have little to offer to this issue and discussion.
What I cannot and refuse to get used to is the fact that they have made composing an email BOTH more time consuming and harder.
Why should I have to hover over a menu to show options to click when there is 10x that space available to show them without hiding?
Why automatically hide CC and BCC and not give an option? I literally use those on every email I send. What used to be a one click email with a few keystrokes is now 5-6 clicks FOR NO REASON.
I really do hope GMail reads this feedback. Give your users options! I have a huge monitor, I don't need you to hide the email I'm replying to, hide the CC and BCC lines, hide all the formatting options, or hide features with stupid, tiny buttons!
It did. It's called Hangouts.
" If Google wanted to increase its presence in the world of the new devices, it could have created a new chat system"
My straw argument is valid. Start now and you have three. Next iteration you will have four. At what point do you call a stop?
You posted on the 20th April. You were one of a few. The post directly below yours was from a Google Employee.
Too many others waited until there was no going back to complain.
Your next post was on the 24th August.
I don't like the new version as a business tool in the form it has taken but I do think with enough pressure it could be made more business compliant.
And therein lies one of the most obvious points. I work with multiple (large) monitors. For those who do not, perhaps some of the minimalist interface is handy. But, GIVE an OPTION to hide or reveal all these aspects.
I too use CC and/or BCC on almost every message.
I haven't seen it mentioned here, but has anyone else noticed that when you CC now it appears in the same line as the main addressee's address -- with no distinction as to it being a CC? There are lots of reasons why one might need to see at a GLANCE just who is in which field.
Furthermore, BCC appears there as well. Granted it is at least preceded by a BCC notation, but having it on the same line is very, very concerning.
It doesn't matter what the end effect of sending is, and we can only hope that indeed the item is BCCed to the destination, it is essential that these items be clearly represented and on separate lines.
I don't know which Browser you are using but I see new unread email notifications in the Tab in Firefox.
Now. What can Gmail tweak for the New Compose that would make it work for you? I've personally been trying to make suggestions regarding New Compose to where users can set their own defaults and pretty much get things back "like they were." In my opinion that should be a win-win for all. I've pretty much given up trying to convince anyone to "bring back the old compose" and rather have decided to move forward to "tweaking" the new compose.
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 9:55:27 AM UTC-5, John Daily wrote:icantchooseone: "Google employees say its not coming back has nothing to do with "can't explain why it was changed in the manner that Google did it'"This is my last response to you. Apparently, it is beyond your capabilities to realize that even though Google has said that they won't bring it back, they can change their mind. So by discounting any possibility that it won't come back you are making a prediction that they won't change their mind. Your exchange with me makes clear that you have little to offer to this issue and discussion.
And I agree with everyone else: I use cc constantly. I also adjust formatting and change the subject frequently. It's ridiculous that I have to go through so many extra steps to use features that I always need.
The new compose window wastes my time.
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 5:07:36 PM UTC+2, Valerie Ghent wrote:"Doree" from Google has said in another topic in this very forum HERE: https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!category-topic/gmail/FNpFCOHwyxwthat they are indeed iistening to feedback
Also, your argument that Google would be required to maintain many systems is is invalid for an additional reason. Compose is only one portion of standard gmail. It would be easy to give the choice if Google cared about email productivity. An additional compose window is not equivalent to a whole new email system. You and the Google people make this argument to deflect how easy it would be to offer choice and avoid answering the question as to why Google is jamming a chat compose window into an email client.
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 10:56:37 AM UTC-5, John Daily wrote:Previous post should have been to Manny.b and not C Man.
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 10:56:37 AM UTC-5, John Daily wrote:Previous post should have been to Manny.b and not C Man.
Now. What can Gmail tweak for the New Compose that would make it work for you?"
Thanks for your sincere effort to improve things. If the basic form of the new compose stays, I will not waste my time with Google and move on to other things. Unless Google shows that it cares about productivity rather than encouraging teenage chat, I can't trust them. They have to make it easy to compose serious emails, instead of adding clicks to the process. I have already started using the Bing search engine more, and I just uninstalled the Keep note taking application on my tablet that was created by Google. (I had intended to compare it to Evernote, but there is no sense doing so now because I can't trust Google) If Google can admit its mistake, I can come back. However, as of now I can't trust Google's competence or products.
Getting back to your original question, all that Google can do for me is to show that it cares about my time and productivity. The new compose shows that it does not care. I have no investment in the form or look of the compose. I just care about my productivity and time.
"full screen" format needs to be renamed "mock full screen"
Did you see me use the term "full screen"? I have nearly always described it as "expanded".
I'm surprised it has only just come to your notice as I've been posting the advice for that ever since it was brought in.
Thunderbird has always been my fall back and it works with Gmail backup to access my backup of Gmail.
My sentiments exactly. I will give Google another chance if they show they are sincere in making their email product an effective business tool and not a personal chat product. But I don't know how much more time I can give them....
It makes no difference, We inhabit the same brain with six others. I'm never alone with me, me, me, me, me, me and me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjBHUQEiTPw
1. Why will you not allow your users the choice to revert back to the previous ("classic") compose and reply?
2. Have you done a simple, comprehensive survey with questions included along the lines of "Do you like the new compose?" and "Would you want the option to revert to the classic interface"?
Thank you.
Zack
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:13:59 PM UTC-4, The C Man (Elder Advisor - Mobile Laureate) wrote:
> Cyclone,
>
> "full screen" format needs to be renamed "mock full screen"
>
> Did you see me use the term "full screen"? I have nearly always described it as "expanded".
>
> I'm surprised it has only just come to your notice as I've been posting the advice for that ever since it was brought in.
No, I did not imply that you referred to it as full-screen, and I didn't mean to do so. My apologies if that's how I came across. It was a general statement that Google is deceiving itself by calling it full-screen.
That's why I and others, including Ronna, have been writing clear, constructive, thoughtful feedback, with numbered suggestions, both in this forum and the one Ronna started.
But when people first arrive in this forum because they have just been switched over, they are in shock and horrified. They are angry.
Yesterday was at the White House in a FEMA Think Tank for 'innovating after disaster'. One of the points they start from is, '"look at disaster recovery from the point of view of the survivors". As I wrote earlier in this forum, for many people, the new compose is a disaster. They are losing productivity, ability to work, and may be facing weeks of transition to an entirely new email system should they or their company choose to move away from gmail. They - we - are stressed.
A little compassion for those who are 'surviving' would go a long way.
ps: I still would like to know why shift+r does not result in a 'new' reply page as does shift+c . Shift+r is is described to create a new page by google itself but it does not do this.
You are not listening to the people speaking to you. If you are not from Google, your view on the matter is as good as a claim that I painted the Mona Lisa.
Let's assume a friend of yours stole $10,000 from another friend. One friend tells you something the other friend said. You are later called to testify in the case. If you report what you were told by this friend, the judge would dismiss this because you heard it through another party.
In the same way, we are hearing through people on this forum that the superior Compose interface is decommissioned. You are not with Google. You are not representing Google. You have no information on internal discussions. You are in no position to tell other people what you heard. So unless you can contribute something USEFUL, please go away. Thank you kindly.
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 10:46:50 AM UTC-4, icantchooseone wrote:
> im not predicting - Google have said on this forum that its not coming back
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 4:41:02 PM UTC+2, John Daily wrote:icantchooseone: "Google employees say its not coming back has nothing to do with "can't explain why it was changed in the manner that Google did it"
> You left out the pertinent part of your previous post where you said that you weren't "privy" to Google's plans. If you aren't privy to Google's plans, please stop predicting what they will do in the future. If you want to say that you are not privy to Google's plans, but Google has said that it won't be changed go ahead. However, please stop acting as though it is totally out of the realm of possibility for Google to respond to customer input and to correct its mistake and restore a productive compose window.
I've been using it since 2004, and now have to look to other possibilities.
Just checked and in Firefox it did create it as a popout.
To explain why some replies from TC's and RS's may seem abrupt they are the ones who post upwards of a thousand help replies per month. They also have real life jobs so they post as quickly as possible. The new Compose has increased the flow of questions by close to 50% and they are trying to cope.
I on the other hand have only upped my flow by 25%, mainly in this and a couple other threads, and am taking time out to answer as well as possible. I can only do this as long as the others do what they are doing.
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 8:46:33 AM UTC-7, mbaltozer wrote:Just to add to my last post.... Using a local software client is FREE with Gmail. It is not free with Yahoo, Hotmail/Outlook.com.
I don't care if this thread is for bread pudding. This is the feedback you're getting, like it or not. Maybe you and Google should start listening to what your users are saying.
I believe ICCO has posted the link back to the statement by a Google Employee. If not please take my word for it. It is official.
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 6:39:03 PM UTC+2, Valerie Ghent wrote:A little compassion for those who are 'surviving' would go a long way.
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 6:42:37 PM UTC+2, CycloneGU wrote:@icantchooseone
You are not listening to the people speaking to you. If you are not from Google, your view on the matter is as good as a claim that I painted the Mona Lisa.
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 6:44:43 PM UTC+2, SCS154 wrote:So, are you saying that it's useless to try and talk to Google about it?
I've been using it since 2004, and now have to look to other possibilities.
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 8:54:53 AM UTC-7, John Daily wrote:C Man: Hangouts is primarily a video system akin to Skype, not a chat client. Thus, I would again invite Google to create a new chat button or system if it wished to gain more traction with respect to texting, instead of hijacking its email to be the chat system it cannot apparently create.
When I have my own place again and get my own Internet, giving myself a non-Web based e-mail, I guarantee you I will be switching to and using it. I'll simply forward my e-mails and not use Google at that time. Google is demonstrating that they do not want me or thousands (nay, millions) of other users. They seem to be counting a lot of inactive accounts in their metrics, and thus saying that they are all happy users of the new Compost. Not so.
Thanks for the reply. I understand overwhelm! But wow that should tell Google something - 'increased the flow of questions by 50%' - hugely significant!!
re shift+r - I mean actual new window, like shift+c, not popout. The only way to get a new reply window is shift+r and then shift +arrow. But in google's own description,
shift+c = new compose window (which it does)
shift+r = new compose window (it does not, it creates popout)
It would be great if indeed shift+r = new reply window as is described here:
https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6594?hl=en & see attached screen shots
It's nothing more than a symptom of a corporate disease, one loosely defined as: Too many suits sitting around a conference table with nothing more to do than act on a nebulous imperative from higher-up the food chain to "do something".
Never-mind that the previous version worked fine.
Never-mind that the original appeal of gmail ( and google in general ) was the simplicity of it's interfaces.
Never-mind that the principle of "least surprise" has fallen victim to the principle of "most high-fives".
Congratulations Gmail Team, you've achieved yet another unnecessary "milestone", high-fives all around, and remember there's free munchies in the break room.
(sigh)
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 6:39:03 PM UTC+2, Valerie Ghent wrote:
'A little compassion for those who are 'surviving' would go a long way.'
thank you Valerie , you have given me a new perspective
@icantchooseone
you're welcome.
ps: if you're interested to learn more about ideas generated yesterday for innovating in disaster recovery, check out #FEMAThinkTank on Twitter. We were invited to post throughout the day.
We will have to agree to disagree. The default button to me appears exactly like a chat window. As I posted before, Google is spooked by Facebook, and is trying to gain traction in that space. If Google wasn't trying to "chatisize" the window and the experience, why is everyone being forced to use a chat window, when it would be very easy to give people an option. Also, why is the rest of the screen blacked out. This is just Windows 8 occurring again in a Google product; a large company is trying to force people to change their habits, not for the benefit of the customer, but for the benefit of the company.
I do want to make clear that I am not claiming that Google is trying to limit message sizes. Rather, trying to be "hip", Google is trying to force people to use email in a manner very similar to chat.
When I open the compose a new email, it doesn't show me the send button 2/3 times. I have to close and open it a few times to get it to appear. It doesn't help speed up my efficiency at all, and in fact has the opposite result.
The format options are difficult to use and see. I use the CC and BCC options all the time, and now they are super annoying and confusing. I dont want to see my email addresses turned into square buttons that move around. I need to copy/paste all day long in emails with addresses.
Please consult with more C-Level Exec Assistants when changing this all around. A lot of companies use Google GMail for work email and this includes us.
This wastes my time. It takes up my time, and I am not happy. Please allow us the option to revert to the old way.
Thanks!
The increased flow is actually down to a limited number of people suddenly posting multiple times.
Because I am particularly nasty I use people's arguments against themselves. Prior to this month you had never posted in the forum. You have now posted 20 times. Some have posted more than that. It's where the extra 50% comes from. If each posted only once the amount of extra posts would have increased by less than 1%. which shows how few seem to care.
I really am sorry because those of us who want the new version improved cannot really prove a major need by using a head count of the posters here compared to the remainder of the 450,000,000 who don't give a ............
Once again and because you don't like the Chat sized window.
The optional expanded Compose window now has the format bar in it and can be made the default. In case you missed how to do the changes here they are:
Thank you for taking the time for such a well thought-out analysis and posting it. Now we need Google to provide users what is needed.
It's a pity. I have enjoyed Gmail until now.
John S., M.D.
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 10:33:19 AM UTC-7, John Daily wrote:bkennelly,We will have to agree to disagree. The default button to me appears exactly like a chat window.
As I posted before, Google is spooked by Facebook, and is trying to gain traction in that space. If Google wasn't trying to "chatisize" the window and the experience, why is everyone being forced to use a chat window, when it would be very easy to give people an option.
Also, why is the rest of the screen blacked out.
> no - Google are listening to the feedback here , if you have any feedback on what changes you want - please post it hereThat's just a bald-faced lie and you know it. They're not listening to the feedback here. They're simply having their PR folks try to minimize complaints while clumsily attempting to frame this as a question of, "What can make this super-awesome feature even better?"
So far, I can't find A SINGLE POST from anyone saying, "I like this new compose! It's better than the old one." NOT. ONE.
There have been a number of posts, nearly all of which from the same small group of users, defending Google and the new feature (though not actually going so far as to say they personally like it better themselves, which I find interesting). But even then, they're vastly out-numbered by posts from users complaining about this new compose.
Though I haven't counted every single post, as far as I can tell, 100% of the non-neutral feedback on this new compose has been very negative. You can spin that any way you want, but it is what it is. Maybe it's time for Google to start listening.
My point, not made as clearly as it could have been, is that the new window (irrespective of the size although I hate the small size) because of the additional clicks required to write serious emails (I write and send many contracts in my emails)is more conducive to chat-like communication than serious work. Google admits that additional clicks are required, and the one time I tried to adjust something above the compose box, I could see it, but I couldn't modify it. That was the last time I used it or will ever use it. Numerous problems have been pointed out by others. I will not be Google's guinea pig in their experiment to make email more chat like.
The reference to the small window used as the compose default was meant to illustrate that the new compose is obviously not designed for serious users. If it was, you would be give a full screen as a default and would be able to easily adjust it. No serious email client would have as a default such a small screen. Even if there was a reason for the small screen, if Gmail was still a serious email client, Google would make it easy to change the default and do serious work. Instead, it is difficult to do serious work.
1. When replying and forwarding you can't change the subject without a click. I much prefer to just press Tab.
2. The new screen is ugly.
3. Google is the new Windows. Instead of keeping what people initially loved, Google wants to always change things and make users learn new tricks, write replies on why we hate the new stuff, and then ask for a patch back to the old way.
then, people will be happy.
and do the same with Facebook too.
Why would you force users to have to click an option to have the reply window be popped out?
When you reply to a long message, it puts the stupid new reply window at the bottom of the thread -- so you can no longer text of the most recent response.
This "new" reply and compose forces users to have to do more scrolling, more clicking, just to send messages. Awful.
As I pointed out before, Google is getting great feedback from this thread. The fact it is refusing to listen to it and building badwill by this refusal doesn't make the feedback from this thread less valuable.
There is a problem: a new compose interface that many people dislike and a solution: go back to the interface everyone seemed to like.
How is that not constructive.
Being told "don't talk - you can only say what we want to hear" is what is doing damage to Google.
Are you working for Google or a shareholder?
You are assuming that untold million s are fully satisfied because they're not communicating. This is reminiscent of what Coke was saying at the time of the New Coke introduction.
Or maybe this is now the way you're thinking, but the way google is thinking, which would make sense since the last of feedback and recognition of the problem by them seems to indicate they are firmly trying not to listen to what I have said before is very valuable feedback.
When you add the post clearly telling people "stop complaining Google won't listen to you" you are getting a huge loss of goodwill that there is no way to really measure as there is no way to find out what people who don't post are thinking except by lowered usage, which google as a whole is already experiencing.
To that end, I recommend people try Bing search. The interface looks suspiciously like the old google search and they give you goodies for using them (it probably won't last so why not enjoy it while it lasts).
This is how organizations falter from the inside from isolation from their customers (see Detroit for a sad, but great example).
Isn't it amazing when a feature that was instantaneous becomes lagged and is presented to us as a vast improvement that cannot be changed ever..?
This move is a huge gift to Microsoft and other competitors. I expect they will be slow to exploit it, but a gift nonetheless. Outlook.com, Yahoo Mail, and iCloud.com look mighty nice right now . . . .
As a veteran of this industry, just in case anyone at Google is listening, I will note the following:
1. In the past, I have advised my enterprise clients to consider Google for cloud-based email and document collaboration. No longer. As of today, I have begun to advise my clients that this move by Google is a clear signal that the company is not prepared to support business needs. Google is acting like the old monopoly of AT&T in an era where plenty of other choices exist.
2. Some may be inclined to compare Google's actions to Microsoft's Office's Ribbon or Windows 8. While there is some truth in the comparison, I want to point out that third parties provided work-arounds to the Ribbon and Windows Shell. With Google Mail, however, there are no apparent alternatives to using the "new compose" in a web browser. Yes, it can be avoided by using an email client like Thunderbird, but I'm not aware of web-based alternatives.
It takes tremendous arrogance for a company that claims to support paying business customers to force a change that hinders productivity, but that is what Google has done.
I've also posted the 10 Steps to Improve "New" Gmail Compose/Reply here: http://valghent.com/open-letter-to-google-10-steps-to-fix-new-gmail-compose-reply/ so pls feel free to tweet/post to FB & otherwise share.
"Valerie Ghent's "10 Simple Steps To Improve "New" Gmail Compose/Reply" on August 19 is EXACTLY what we need. Every item is right on the mark.
Thank you for taking the time for such a well thought-out analysis and posting it. Now we need Google to provide users what is needed."
How do you know ICCO does not have a beard? How do you know it is a lie?
"That's just a bald-faced lie and you know it".
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:34:18 PM UTC-4, bruce234 wrote:
> @JohnDaily, thank you for taking the time to respond to the "Top Contributors". I have already given up trying to reason with them, or trying to help Google fix their problem. I'm just hobbling along until I find a better solution to jump ship to.
Bruce,
Thanks for the kind words. Am wondering why I am spending so much time on this today. However, I am working on a boring, simple database issue, so I can indulge myself and observe this ongoing train wreck today.
In the old version I would have to go into the subject line. Highlight it. Then start typing the new Subject. In the New version In the version I click on the arrow. Choose Edit Subject and start typing. It's already highlighted. If anything slightly less work.
It's only harder if you are just editing out the Re: or something like that.
The reply window never popped out automatically in the old version. If you want to see what was in the post you are replying to click on the ellipsis at bottom left.
Please read this and digest carefully.
Google listened to the early complainers and made the expanded Compose window an option. It wasn't in the first version. They also made the format bar remain visible in the expanded versions. That also wasn't in the first version. They listened.then. They will listen now to suggestions on how to make the new version more usable. They are not suicidal.
I was one of the TC's who pushed for both those changes. Unfortunately there was not a lot else being objected to at that time.
I used the old version up to the time it was no longer in beta and then changed from version to version to make sure I would be able to use the new one.
There is a lot that needs doing to the new version but just complaining without suggesting is not going to help.
How do I go back to use the original compose message screen?? I want it back!
Problem: We have to click four extra times to get a usable window. Once to get the menu, once to choose pop-out, once to move it to center screen and once to make the previous text show, so I can see what I'm replying to. WHY??
Fix: Make it a customizable default option--i.e. same as the new compose.
Problem: Everything is hidden. Extra click to get formatting options, to get edit subject, to see who you're CCing, etc. WHY? Why is hiding these options good design? I'm honestly baffled. Form over function? Is that the idea?
Fix: Unhide them.
The new compose & reply are horribly unfriendly to those with repetitive strain injuries. They are also just an inefficient waste of time to use. If it's really so important for some users (who?) to have a super clean interface with all the useful stuff hidden away--fine, make it an option. For super users, sending tons of email, trying to do business, this new interface where everything is hidden is an incredibly frustrating and literally painful waste of time.
Since my business has a contract with gmail, I don't have a choice about using it. But we are allowed to use other email clients to access it. I really would prefer not to go back to Thunderbird, but I don't see another option at this point. I'm disappointed at Google's disregard for ergonomics if nothing else.
EDIT: I wanted to add--With the addition of the compose window being centered, the ability to set it to default that way and all the features not being hidden, I'm fine with it. I even like it (really!). But 80% of my email work involves replying and reply doesn't work the same. Why can't it just work the same?
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 4:50:40 PM UTC-4, The C Man (Elder Advisor - Mobile Laureate) wrote:
> They will listen now to suggestions on how to make the new version more usable.
That's the problem. The new option is not pretty and is not usable. What a lot of users want is one of two things:
1) The old version as an option
2) Something that works and feels EXACTLY like the old version. Adding the new benefits (drag and drop, etc.) is fine, just leave our preferred format alone as an option.
That's really the point here.
Thanks for posting and your arguments are irrefutable.
In the UK if the contract is with a British company that contract could be voided on the grounds of the changes.
I have just received a notification from my Broadband supplier the price for their service will be increasing due to an increase in price from their supplier. I have been given the option to terminate the contract within the next thirty days without penalty even though there is nine months to run on it.
http://www.change.org/petitions/google-change-gmail-back
Google will therefore never under any circumstance make any decision based on feedback from these forums, they use the metrics data (user usage) to guide their thinking, because the total number of people complaining is less than 0.00001% of the user base..
View these forums as isolated padded rooms (no swear words) where angry customers can vent their frustration with likeminded individuals.
Since the old way of composing (and replying to) a message is gone, I will make the same decision. I will stop using gmail. Its as easy as that, and 100 times more effective than spending time in these forums.
It imports everything out of your Gmail account and uses a very good compose
option. Even the chats.
That's the way I am going.
It's hard to fathom what the intent of imposing this miracle of poor design on users is. If the intention was to disrupt my business and make me angry then so far it's right on the money.
Control this and option that is just hopeless.
Heads should roll and soon.
I've included as much as possible about Compose here and if you need further help please come back. You can also take a look at the videos made specifically for this in Gmail - Disable, Resize and Learn to Like the New Compose Mail Window [Video] | AnsonAlex .
The optional expanded Compose window now has the format bar in it and can be made the default. In case you missed how to do the changes here they are:
Possible solution: Sound clear to me that Gmail has 2 customer audiences and may want to consider making platforms that are friendly to each (higher volume / gmail at work vs. lower volume / home users) without being done at the expense on one of these groups.
Maybe Google doesn't want higher volume / work email users as customers? I CAN'T STRESS HOW MUCH EXTRA WORK THIS CHANGE HAS CREATED FOR EACH EMAIL I SEND EVERYDAY & HOW UNHAPPY I AM AS A CUSTOMER. Even within 1) compose new, 2) reply and 3)forward there are many problems & inconsistencies. I've been with Gmail for years because they've been the best at making enhancements but this rollout feels more like a Microsoft roll out where yep we know you're unhappy, yep we know there are bugs, and yep we're doing our best to fix the problem. I dislike the company for these reasons & hope Google isn't following this format. Enough said..
WHEN WILL GOOGLE FIX GMAIL OR MAKE OLD FORMAT AVAILABLE TO HIGH VOLUME CUSTOMERS???
Please read and digest this carefully.
I have explained to you, several different ways, why your insistence on promoting the premise that the only valid feedback involves "making this wonderful feature even better" simply does not pass logical muster. Did you read my analogy with the wheelbarrow full of horse manure? You never did answer my question on that.
What I and hundreds of other people here are saying is that you can't make something "more usable" if it's not usable to begin with. This new compose window is fundamentally broken and, frankly, terrible. There is NOT ONE SINGLE THING about it that's better than the previous model. Not one. What part of that are you not understanding?
I don't care if Google listened to the early "complainers" or not. The question is whether or not they're listening NOW, and clearly they are not. Besides, I distinctly remember people giving the same feedback then that they're giving now. Google did not listen to them; they merely tried to throw them a bone in hopes they'd shut-up. Evidently, it didn't work.
I'm sorry if this response shows some frustration on my part, but the pejorative straw man you keep accusing myself and others of using, that we're "just complaining without suggesting", is very disrespectful and, well, annoying. It rests on the premise that any suggestion that Google rejects is not a suggestion at all. Under that logic, the only feedback that exists is positive feedback, since all negative feedback magically doesn't count. That's rather convenient, wouldn't you say?
Please read this very carfully: MY SUGGESTION IS THAT THEY RESTORE THE OPTION TO USE THE OLD INTERFACE. I even put it in all-caps so that you'd see it. There, now, can you now acknowledge that we are, in fact, offering a suggestion? Read through the hundreds of comments here and you'll see that suggestion repeated ad nauseum. Your refusal to even acknowledge that we're saying it is, as I said, extremely disrespectful and dismissive.
I'll say it again, just in case you missed it: My suggestion is that they restore the option to use the old interface and leave it there until such time that they don't have 99.9999% of their users up-in-arms over how much they HATE the new one.
Please don't suggest again that people aren't offering suggestions. We are. You just don't like the suggestions we're offering but that does not make them any less valid. If Google wants community feedback, then they don't get to pick-and-choose what feedback is valid and what feedback is not. And, frankly, neither do you.
But everyone is completely and totally missing the point. Google most obviously could care less about the unhappy users. If Google wants community feedback, then they don't get to pick-and-choose what feedback is valid and what feedback is not. And, frankly, neither do you. This is what everyone is missing. Google does NOT want feedback. So yes, they do NOT have to pick and choose any feedback whatsoever. Constructive or not. I am sad to know that this is a losing battle. and it makes me sick to my stomach.
If Google wants community feedback, then they don't get to pick-and-choose what feedback is valid and what feedback is not.
> Actually, Kris, C Man DID answer your question about the wheelbarrow.
I'm not seeing it. Could you be more specific?
> Accepting all feedback is not the same thing as acting on all feedback.
The problem is, they're not even accepting it. Browse through this thread and you'll see repeatedly people reiterating Google's apparent position that they won't even consider any feedback that suggests backing-off of any of the new UI elements. To me, at least, that basically just translates to a great big, "Fuck you all!"
Also, to the people saying "there's not one single thing good about the new compose"--c'mon...really? In your opinion, I guess. I think you're just shooting yourself in the foot though using hyperbole like that. It's too easy for them to just dismiss you as change-resistant.
I have to agree with the guy who keeps saying 'constructive, specific suggestions' are going to be more productive than just demanding they 'give us back the old interface.'
> Please don't suggest again that people aren't offering suggestions. We are. You just don't like the suggestions we're offering but that does not make them any less valid. If Google wants community feedback, then they don't get to pick-and-choose what feedback is valid and what feedback is not. And, frankly, neither do you.
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 4:11:48 PM UTC-7, ronna wrote:
> Actually, Kris, C Man DID answer your question about the wheelbarrow.
>
>
>
>
>
> <...
| Kris - I found it. from early this morning. see line in blue, below. The C Man (Elder Advisor - Mobile Laureate) | 5:47 AM (12 hours ago) |
As I said, the margin borders help those that cannot tell where each sector finishes. The don't show in the received amail in that way. The receiving system governs what is seen.
The web is changing and parts are no longer backwards compatible.
When the last iteration of Gmail came in users asked why they could not retain the option to revert to the previous one. That would mean there would now be a minimum of four versions running. It has to stop somewhere. Google maintains two which is more than any other email supplier.
Your last question. That's easy. A wheelbarrow with a charcoal filter cover to stop the small.
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 6:29:20 PM UTC-5, Kris Craig wrote:> Actually, Kris, C Man DID answer your question about the wheelbarrow.I'm not seeing it. Could you be more specific?
On Thursday, 29 August 2013 10:55:26 UTC+12, Kris Craig wrote:
> My suggestion is that they restore the option to use the old interface and leave it there
Oh yes please....... The new one is a terrible time waster.
Apparently Phil Sharp is the Gmail Product Manager. He talks in glowing terms about the new interface here: http://googleenterprise.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/introducing-new-compose-in-gmail.html
and invites comments.
He too may or may not be listening but it seems a good an opportunity to tell him, politely, what you think.
Now to continue the search for a new email client for my mac.
On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 6:14:30 PM UTC-4, ronna wrote:I disagree with your comment that this forum and the reasoned complaints against the gmail downgrade are just venting. To me, the fact that many people have spent so much time explaining the detailed problems with the new compose is more like the canary in the coal mine. There has been much criticism and virtually no defense of the effort to "chatify" gmail. Undoubtedly, there are many more people who feel the same who have not come to this forum. I have yet to see one reason why a person who uses email for serious purposes would like the new compose; it is simply a time waster. That being the case if satisfying its users is a goal of Google, it should give the opinions expressed here a good deal of weight. If it doesn't, it will probably pay a substantial price with people abandoning Gmail and Google generally.
> I think you've hit the nail on the head. In Jason Cromwell's google+ page, one of his buddies mentioned that even if a few thousand complain about the new compose, that's just a rounding error to them. so yes. this forum is simply a padded cell where we can all come and vent.
Of course, if Google's actual usage increases following these changes, then it should stick with them. Google will have a "chatified" email it can make more money on, which is fine. Those who use email for serious purposes will go elsewhere, which is fine. I should mention that Outlook is so far superior to the gmail downgrade that it is not even funny. (I am using gmail html for the short term and figuring out where to go.) However, I believe that Google's actual usage will go down, and my posts here are made to hasten the day when I believe Google will have to admit its mistake. I am not asking for any favors; I am simply asking for Google to look objectively at its new gmail and ask whether it is an improvement for its users. Maybe Google can avoid Microsoft's Vista [and Windows 8] mistake and a lot of users can avoid the lost productivity caused by this downgrade.
Are you a parent? Have you had a child ever ask you for something (a snack, a pony, whatever)? You consider the trade-offs and let's say the answer is: no. What if they ask again? What if they ask 100 more times? What about 1000 times? Does asking again change the original conditions (too close to dinner, too expensive) that resulting in the original answer?
Thanks so much for writing in to this forum. Join the club. I'm so sorry we all have to meet this way when there are so many better ways in the world to meet new people. We've been outlining concerns about new compose/reply for weeks now and every time a new person writes in it confirms everything we've been saying. Your post hit home to me and I completely empathize.
I was/am so sorry to read this:
"They were very nice and apologetic but basically couldn't help me, couldn't escalate the issue, told me that I should make feature requests in the forums and (maybe) google engineering will pay attention."
Couldn't escalate the issue? That's nonsense. So they ditch you from their paid staff to the volunteers who moderate this forum? Pure sci/fi - send everyone to the one complain/outrage place so you can monitor from a safe distance. Truly not acceptable.
Maybe you could share this phone number with us - or post it anonymously somewhere - so we can call and verbalize our complaints - oh excuse me, I mean, our feedback. I'm ready for an all out protest in front of the Google building at 15th street/10th ave or 9th ave (choose your entrance) here in NYC. Anyone game? Anyone ready to protest in CA? (if so we'd need to organize THAT outside of this forum.)
I've written up '10 simple steps to improve the 'new' compose/reply' posted Aug 19 in this forum and here: http://valghent.com/open-letter-to-google-10-steps-to-fix-new-gmail-compose-reply/, others have outlined in a variety of ways the simple changes that would make the new version useable. All we can suggest at the present moment is to keep posting constructive suggestions here to improve the new compose/reply. The groundswell is growing.
So if you have suggestions that would improve the 'new' compose/reply, please do share them.
we're with you!
The fact that Google chooses not to listen, doesn't make them the 'wise parent"...
I am very glad to read you did not mean it to come across that way.
If getting a pony were that important to my child that it asked over 1,000 times, I'd have to rethink whether my original no should still be a no.
You're one of the few who posted here, but who knows how many people are doing the same thing you're doing without letting Google know about it?
That is why I think this forum should be viewed by Google as great (and free) marketing feedback
As I mentioned in an earlier post, this unilateral change is a huge gift to Microsoft, Yahoo, Apple and every other email competitor.
Businesses that pay Google for Adwords will eventually connect the dots . . . fewer eyeballs on those text based ads in Gmail because users got fed up with the "new compose" and started using an email client like Thunderbird, Outlook, etc.
By that time the product managers who foisted this debacle will be long gone.
On top of that it is so slow now that it hangs.
When talking about numbers, one needs to keep in mind the huge scale of Gmail and how many people it takes to be a "significant number".
Request you to please switch it back.
cheers...
d
Old rule of the thumb in a company I used to work for.
If you get 1 complaint then there are at least 5 others who feel the same. If you get 2 then there are at least 20 more. If you get 10 you have a 100 or more. If you get 100 or close to that then multiply by at least 10 and possibly up to a 100. If you get more than that start worrying because you are looking at a multiplier of 1,000.
Deputy Dawg has just posted a very pointed remark.
On Thursday, August 29, 2013 12:00:20 AM UTC-4, Brett Alegre-Wood wrote:I hate the new compose so inefficent that I am moving away from gmail. Why they keep imposing there rubbish ill thought out changes on everyone I don't know.. I guess Google knows better than there consumers.On top of that it is so slow now that it hangs.
This is the final straw after repeated poor service and the bad experiences I've been having of late in other areas.
There's obviously nothing I can do about this for my existing accounts and the clients I've pointed in the direction of gmail but in future I will no longer be recommending it to anyone. Most of my small clients pay for their google mail accounts but I realise that Google's income from this is negligible. However, I am a marketing consultant and my larger clients (well known FMCG companies) spend a fortune on media and, from now on, if there's any alternative to any Google product (such as Doubleclick etc) I will be recommending it.
I, too, have noted more of a "lag" time - and I have the exact same browser today as I did when the New Compose became the default a couple of weeks ago. The lines as I type them want to jump up and down, and also letters appearing on the screen lag behind my typing. I switch back and forth between opening Gmail in Firefox (new compose) and also in an IE tab to be able to use the old compose. I have none of these issues when using old compose. It also takes forever to upload a photo in the new compose; however, when I go to the old compose in the IE tab, that same photo uploads in mere seconds.
I do honestly believe this is a functionality problem and needs to be addressed. I do not see how these issues can merely be a browser problem as I have both versions of Gmail open in separate tabs in the same browser.
I have submitted both of these issues to "feedback" in Gmail.
Thank you in advance for checking into this issue.
BTW, I am using chrome so no excuses there. Don't get me started on all the 'end of privacy' stuff with youtube etc - use your real name! No, I'd rather keep my personal and professional life seaparate, thank you.
Google, get a grip. This annoyance may start with people like me but in my 25 years using computers professionally, I have been a bit of a bellwether. Actually, forget it. It's probably too late and we'll just have to put up with the death pangs of a giant over the next five years until someone who pays more attention to their customers and is more honest about their naked greed comes along. Do no evil, indeed.
Which version of IE are you using? If you can get the old and new versions then it sounds like IE 8 or earlier which even Microsoft admits are outdated and Gmail says won't run the new version correctly. The functionality is impaired..
Are you referring to the format bar? That should show in any Compose window apart from the corner one by default. Which browser and version are you using?
And yeah, so Gmail says it won't run the new version correctly - the functionality is impaired. LMAO. yay for impaired functionality! I re-open Gmail in IE Tab to access the old compose when I need to attach a photo or want to send a lengthier-than-just-a-chat email.
"impaired functionality" happens when I try to use the new compose!!! ROTFLMAO. OMG. tears running down my legs. i gotta get back to work now. ttfn.
On Thursday, August 29, 2013 8:29:31 AM UTC-5, The C Man (Elder Advisor - Mobile Laureate) wrote:ronna,
Which version of IE are you using? If you can get the old and new versions then it sounds like IE 8 or earlier which even Microsoft admits are outdated and Gmail says won't run the new version correctly. The functionality is impaired..
On Thursday, August 29, 2013 8:29:31 AM UTC-5, The C Man (Elder Advisor - Mobile Laureate) wrote:ronna,
Which version of IE are you using? If you can get the old and new versions then it sounds like IE 8 or earlier which even Microsoft admits are outdated and Gmail says won't run the new version correctly. The functionality is impaired..
Canary is still in the development stage and is meant for the use of developers only.
Get on the bleeding edge of the web
Google Chrome Canary has the newest of the new Chrome features.
Be forewarned: it's designed for developers and early adopters, and can sometimes break
down completely.
Please tell me you are joking about FF 3.6. Next thing you'll say is you are using Windows 2000.
IE Tab2 (FF 3.6+) 4.12.22.2 is the name of the add-on/extension, designed, I am assuming for FF versions 3.6+, which includes 23.0.1.
For my desktop I'm still using Vista as my OS but for my virtual computer (where I do not routinely access Gmail) the OS is Windows XP!
On Thursday, August 29, 2013 8:56:11 AM UTC-5, The C Man (Elder Advisor - Mobile Laureate) wrote:Ronna,
Please tell me you are joking about FF 3.6. Next thing you'll say is you are using Windows 2000.
From what I can see at a quick glance it was made for Chrome users of Firefox but it was a very quick glance. Might be an idea to read up on it yourself. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ie-tab-2-ff-36/developers
The original version was meant for 3.6
This is slowing down my work, switch it back or I'll find other email solutions.
One really really big black mark is that I now have to save attachments to my local disk as I can't drag them between windows. Yet another 'feature' that indicates Google has no interest at all in their professional users.
> On Thursday, 29 August 2013 10:55:26 UTC+12, Kris Craig wrote:
>
> > My suggestion is that they restore the option to use the old interface and leave it there
>
> Oh yes please....... The new one is a terrible time waster.
>
> Apparently Phil Sharp is the Gmail Product Manager. He talks in glowing terms about the new interface here: http://googleenterprise.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/introducing-new-compose-in-gmail.html
> and invites comments.
>
> He too may or may not be listening but it seems a good an opportunity to tell him, politely, what you think.
First note: this is October 30, 2012.
Second note: I think it would look better on Google if, instead of hiding behind their Top Contributors (no offense C Man or anyone else), they spend all that extra time in this thread specifically talking to their users and getting a gauge of user frustration. Relying on people like C Man to try to give them a gauge of public opinion is not working.
Hey, Phil Sharp? Where are you? We get that you love the new Compost, but come talk to those of us who don't like it! We have our reasons! We think Jason Cromwell screwed up your company by forcing this on us! Come hear us out!
> zacl15,
>
> In the old version I would have to go into the subject line. Highlight it. Then start typing the new Subject. In the New version In the version I click on the arrow. Choose Edit Subject and start typing. It's already highlighted. If anything slightly less work.
>
> It's only harder if you are just editing out the Re: or something like that.
I'm sorry, are you trying to tell me it's easier to search for an icon than to just click in the Subject field directly? Please tell me that was more sarcasm at its finest there.
On Thursday, August 29, 2013 12:01:05 AM UTC-4, Still Lara wrote:Here's an idea. Switch back to the old Compose. Make it the default. See how many people switch to the new Compost. That may prove that millions of users just use whatever it gets converted to, not knowing how to change it (or not caring).
> Very true that, but not everyone who would want the old compose back goes to the forums and says so. This probably brings us back to the question of how many people switched to the old compose when they could, and how many of these were daily users. But also, how many figured out how to switch back.
> For all I know, we could very well be a minority here. Maybe the majority loves the new compose very much. I know the nature of this beast quite well, the ones who love it aren't going to come in here en mass and post about it. Usually you can count on a handful of people to do so though, and I haven't seen this yet here on the forum.
Their egos are too big for their heads.
On Thursday, August 29, 2013 12:22:41 AM UTC-4, Echo3 Online Services wrote:
> Is there any compelling reason not to make new format optional again?
"I created the IE Tab add-on for Chrome. Users came to me when the original IE Tab stopped working because they didn't like the alternatives (the IE Tab Plus developers are shady, and the extension is buggy). They asked me to pick up where the old IE Tab left off, and I did exactly that: Took the original IE Tab and updated it to make it work with the current versions of Firefox."
Of course I do get this message which is in a Red Block: It looks like you have enabled Internet Explorer Compatibility View.
I only switch over to IE tab when I need to attach a photograph or want to write an email that will exceed the space allotted for either "full screen" compose, or the reply window, so that I don't have to watch the lines dance around. Plus Old Compose can keep up with my typing. Even though the new reply screen will accommodate more lines (growing as you type), it is just too annoying to watch those lines jumping so I've learned to simply switch to the IE tab. lol.
You know, it really doesn't take that long to freaking memorize a new symbol. I personally still don't care for the new compose but hey, I'm flexible enough to roll with the punches.
I long ago figured out that Google no longer cares what the users want. It's about their "Experience." I've used GMAIL since it rolled out and suffice it to say the compose experience is the one thing I haven't found a way to work-around. I'm tired of all the extra clicks that GMAIL now requires. Example, I want to forward a message - I click the drop down (1) then forward (2), the type of compose arrow (3), then pop-out reply (4), then the arrows to go to full screen (5) just to forward a message. Repeat that a few times a day and you'll know why I'm setting up accounts on Outlook.com and having my GMAIL account forward there.
Google wants it their way, but the customers don't seem to like it. At least not on web pages.
On Thursday, 29 August 2013 16:18:42 UTC+1, ronna wrote:I personally still don't care for the new compose but hey, I'm flexible enough to roll with the punches.
On an unrelated note, DON'T add categories - Updates, Promotions, etc. - that I have no need of and don't want - without letting me delete the darned things. You're screwing up my mailbox, and I'm getting annoyed enough at this point that I may have to find a new email service.
Are you suing the corner Compose window? I'm using the expanded window and the full title is showing as they attach but i would never attempt to copy it from there as it's too easy to open the file.
It should be the same name as the file you have in your computer. Why not copy the name from there?
I use AdBlock and never see (let alone click on) sponsored links.
Google never had any intention of changing anything back. Period. I've come to realize this forum is simply that padded cell where the rounding-error users come to vent.
On Thursday, 29 August 2013 11:59:04 UTC-4, doberdu wrote:
> This new format is a nightmare - looking for new email carrier... Also suddenly being told that I am above my limit when I have only sent on email to my group. Never had the problem before they initiated this new format. And there is no support whatsoever - also, I will not even be able to get a response about this because the original email for the guy who opened this account for me is still on the account and I can't seem to change it... I am so frustrated! I pay extra to be able to have big enough limits!!!grrr... We are looking for another carrier... I can't do my work.
Could you elaborate on the "above my limit" comment.
Do you mean you are above the limit of addressees, or above the limit of e-mail you can send, or what?
Not being dense, just wondering what you encountered and why, so we can add it to the list.
On Thursday, August 29, 2013 11:44:37 AM UTC-4, Joe Anonymous wrote:
> Speaking of multipliers of 1,000 -- looks like we are about to blow past the forum limit of 1,000 posts for a 2nd time. Can we expect another lengthy lag while someone adjusts for this "trivial" number of posts?
It's great to know that reaching the forum-limited number of posts is a trivial "rounding error". Doing it twice? According to some: "They'll learn to like it."
There is a reason I've switched to using Thunderbird exclusively, except for reading e-mails on my phone occasionally.
There is absolutely NO doubt that there is a typing lag. It is not browser or internet connection dependent either. To be sure, I have used different browsers and computers in different locations with different internet connections.
There is the lag in drafts that has already been mentioned.
There is the complete trash of how the reply screen works (not to mention it is inconsistent with how the compose screen works).
Summarising some of the already mentioned points made by many (to bring them back into one spot), with apologies to any I missed:
1. The interface is unusable.
2. The formatting controls need to be at the top.
3. The attachments need to be at the top and the entire name of the attachment needs to be visible.
4. Pasting into the windows, especially into the reply window, does NOT work. I just copied something in a different window (several times to be sure I was not doing something myself that was incorrect) and it will not paste into the reply window. Additionally, I copied something that was IN the reply window, and it didn't exist on the clipboard when I went to paste it elsewhere.
5. The icons need to have an option for "text"; not everyone likes or works well with icons only.
6. The CC and BCC MUST be separate from the line of regular "to" recipients.
7. The BCC and CC MUST show at all times, with full and complete data; each must be clearly separate from "to" and separate from each other. (What I see now, for example, is one line. To test it, I entered several "to" as well as several "CC" and several "BCC" recipients. The resulting single line gives me the first handful, NOT DIFFERENTIATED as to whether they are "to" or "CC" and a little tile that reads "6 more (4BCC)"; this is 100% unacceptable.
8. The "insert" menu needs to be moved back to the top, and the icons MUST have an option for including text for those who do not work well with visual images. Furthermore, the various options to attach things should not only appear when hovered over.
9. The lag in the typing speed showing up on the screen MUST be fixed.
10. The "to/cc/bcc" line does not indicated in any way with an appropriate leader what that line is.
11. The subject line does not indicate that it IS the subject line.
12. I am testing three small attachments as I write in this forum -- they are beyond belief in the slowness to load, and because they are at the bottom of the message I cannot easily see what is there. They belong at the top, easily referenced by a glance.
13. The drafts folder does not update correctly (mentioned by many others).
14. The sheer number of clicks and hoops to jump through is time-consuming. It takes several clicks now to start to work on a reply, for example, where one or perhaps two were sufficient before.
15. Perhaps the only positive -- moving to a client such as Thunderbird does at least remove the issues related to composition and it removes the ads. Maybe the loss in revenue when Google figures out that the people who were advertising don't want to any more might move them to consider some reverting/revisions.
15a. Using a client, however, doesn't remove the account from Google/G-Mail, and this is something Google is counting on. To really make a statement to them the users will need to completely cancel the accounts and go elsewhere -- not merely "still use G-Mail" through a more friendly e-mail client interface.
I could go on, but I'm sure someone else will add more.
The reference to "compost" rather than "compose" is amusing but inaccurate. "Compost" is usually spread on the ground to encourage positive growth and good results. This new "compose" is far from even being "compost" that might result in some positive outcome.
A far more accurate description of this new interface is "toxic waste" or something more along those line. Utterly useless, and completely failing to be of any benefit to the environment it is in.
It stands alone anyhow.
The reference to "compost" rather than "compose" is amusing but inaccurate. "Compost" is usually spread on the ground to encourage positive growth and good results. This new "compose" is far from being "compost" that might result in some positive outcome.
A far more accurate description of this new interface is "toxic waste" or something more along those line. Utterly useless, and completely failing to be of any benefit to the environment it is in.
to me with the advent of this New Compose, it really should no longer be called Gmail, but rather Gchat.
1984 is a novel. Not a guidebook for software developers.
1. either remove everything and re-add
2. remember to delete the old version before attaching the new (and remember that I have done so)
3. download each attachment- again - (from the mail I'm about to send this is) to check which one is the right one.
Why, in the name of all that is holy, has the attachment name been truncated? There's plenty of white space after the attachment, it's just on one of those bloody stupid tabs, or cards or whatever they're called. ARRRRRRRRGHHHHH! I thought I'd reached the height of frustration before. I wonder how many people in my position are just quietly cursing the name of google and moving on to an alternative? How many are just putting up with this rubbish? Not one person in my office likes the new compose, in fact they all actively hate it. I've asked. So you can add 38 people to my complaints. None of them are teenagers 'chatting' to their friends (we actually use the chat function or skype IM for that - quelle surprise!) but they all use gmail all day everyday. If google is doing this on the assumption that we are all going mobile - no! Just no! It's better to use a phone or pads built in email account for this as it saves bandwidth and looks the same for all email accounts. Google may be the 800 lb gorilla in search, but gmail is far from the only email system.