Categories: Chit-chat :

Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool.

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Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. ShopSafe 6/28/12 7:19 PM
I expected to be able to choose from a list but it's not like that. So it means a little extra work but I have no doubt it will be worth the effort. Every honest webmaster should be using it.

Bringing back your own deserved traffic via Bing might also have a minor but positive impact on numbers via Google. 

Here's hoping that Google will follow Bing's lead and catch up soon. :)

Update: I've been doing some work on creating a list for Bing's Link Disavowal Tool and started a how-to here if you are interested: http://dumbseoquestions.com/index.php/2012/10/15/bing_s_link_disavowal_tool :)

Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. ShopSafe 6/28/12 7:33 PM
I forgot a link. This probably won't work but maybe it will drop to the right page if you are already logged in. :)

https://ssl.bing.com/webmaster/configure/disavow/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fshopsafe.com.au%2F 
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. seo101 6/28/12 8:33 PM
" Every honest webmaster should be using it"

...and every dishonest webmaster will be using it to find where the 'line in the sand' is, so they can keep on link spamming!
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. ShopSafe 6/28/12 8:38 PM
At least you do not disagree that every honest webmaster should be using it.

Of course your first thought would be against this, mate, because you sell links. 

I don't think you have anything to be concerned about. Why and how would this tool affect your business in any way?
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. seo101 6/28/12 8:42 PM
I now going to call you out as a liar.
I have never sold a link in my life. You making that up.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Brian Ussery 6/28/12 8:43 PM
Duane's post is here:
http://www.bing.com/community/site_blogs/b/webmaster/archive/2012/06/27/disavow-links-you-don-t-trust.aspx
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. ShopSafe 6/28/12 9:05 PM
Sorry seo101,

I assumed that you did sell links and dmoz entries from statements you have made here and elsewhere in the past. I have no proof and apologise if neither applies to you. :)
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. StevieD_Web 6/28/12 10:17 PM
>You should not expect a dramatic change in your rankings as a result of using this tool, but the information shared does help Bing understand more clearly your intent around links pointing to your site.

The Bing tool sounds just like the Google tool that was suggested a long time ago..... just a tool to signal intent, not a tool to absolutely disavowal the link.




Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. ShopSafe 6/28/12 10:22 PM
Aaaah StevieD

I can see you are yet to learn when to hold them and when to fold them. :)  
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. StevieD_Web 6/28/12 10:51 PM
Do you really think Bing is going to modify their SERP because you signal to them that you don't like the link from my site to yours?

I don't.

I contend it is for the same reason that Google won't let us.  Such access would let you/me/us directly modify the search results outside of what we place on our sites for the visitor to see or how we market our sites with other sites.  Not good.  Would give us an unfair advantage over other sites who do not use the tool as well as giving the black hatters access to ranking signals.

Bing used the words "help .... understand... intent".  And that is what it should be.  A tool/signal of what we like and what we don't like.

I am going to strongly encourage people to use the tool.  Lets train Bing as to what we like and what we don't like as far as backlinks.  But I am under no disillusionment that Bing is going to take my clicks of disavowaling a site as the final word of such action. 


Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. ShopSafe 6/28/12 11:10 PM
It seems to me you are missing the point of the tool.

It's not about what you like or what you don't like, it's about links and traffic from particular types of site that rise above a preset algorithmic threshold,  tripping a demotion or exclusion.

It doesn't happen accidentally, someone has to deliberately do it and most of it has a clearly-recognisable footprint. You would know it if you saw it.

If it is not happening to you, you won't know about it and neither do you need to worry about it.

On the other hand, (and you need to think about this), if negative SEO is not being used against your site/s, then you should leave the disavowal tool alone as you would only be shooting yourself in the foot.


Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 6/29/12 1:24 AM

On Friday, June 29, 2012 3:10:22 AM UTC-3, ShopSafe wrote:
It seems to me you are missing the point of the tool.

It's not about what you like or what you don't like, it's about links and traffic from particular types of site that rise above a preset algorithmic threshold,  tripping a demotion or exclusion.
 
The problem with that line thinking is increasing in traffic are signs that your strategy is paying off... or no wait, it's signs that there is a sinister plot to push a domain above a preset algorithmic threshold, tripping a demotion or exclusion.
 
I'm sure you can't tell which... but this tool can? hmmm? I love to see that.
It doesn't happen accidentally, someone has to deliberately do it and most of it has a clearly-recognisable footprint. You would know it if you saw it.
 
As noted previously, the normal deliberate action is the owner action in their own best interest... and the aftermath is a cover lack of understanding of "what's going on" which leads them to a clearly-recognisable footprint that they didn;t see while they had results but now when they don't they need to blame something or someone that isn't themselves.
 
If it is not happening to you, you won't know about it and neither do you need to worry about it.
 
Who was the culprit?
 
Obviously someone is responsible... sure to have a fact about this you must determine an identity... does this tool do that?
On the other hand, (and you need to think about this), if negative SEO is not being used against your site/s, then you should leave the disavowal tool alone as you would only be shooting yourself in the foot.
So by your own admission a link developed by the owner for the purposes of unnaturally ranking can't be fixed but a link developed by another party can be undone... the tool can tell that.
 
Wishful thinking ... I applaud the imagination though.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Phil Payne 6/29/12 1:41 AM
> I have never sold a link in my life.

Yers.  I would have thought you in the handful of people least likely to sell a link.

However - this is a tactical victory for Bing that is WHOLLY the result of Google's management inertia, and that's something Google's senior management has to deal with as their #1 priority.

I'm personally very sad to see this feature - which I think we all need - arrive in a proprietary Webmaster Tools form, because it means we now have to maintan and manage disavow lists on a search engine by search engine basis - a vast increase in professional webmasters' workloads.

I would VERY much rather have seen either a 'badlinks.txt' or 'disavow.txt' file along the lines of robots.txt, or perhaps a Disavow: or Badlink: directive in robots.txt itself, along the lines of Google's Allow: extension - which still isn't in the official semi-standard.

Google have lost the plot here and have serious egg on their faces.  For a technology-driven company to miss one like this something must be really screwed up in the management chain at the Googleplex.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. seo101 6/29/12 1:48 AM
Searchengineland are certainly wondering why Bing bothered:
http://searchengineland.com/bing-launches-way-to-disavow-links-but-why-126262
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Phil Payne 6/29/12 2:00 AM
> Searchengineland are certainly wondering why Bing bothered:

And not for the fiirst time:

http://searchengineland.com/the-meta-keywords-tag-lives-at-bing-why-only-spammers-should-use-it-96874

Google is habitually disingenuous.  Remember their statement that the meta keywords tag 'is not used for indexing or ranking'?  Doesn't say they don't use it at all - maybe they've been using it for spam detection for years.

But they've screwed up bigtime here.  Maybe Bing read Matt Cutts' comments and decided to out-develop them?  Google is not good at code development, as both this forum software and Webmaster Tools demonstrate.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/29/12 7:35 AM
Bing Launches Way to “Disavow” Links, But Why?

"
One of the recommendations Google has given for recovering from Penguin is to have spammy links removed, but what if that’s not possible? Some in the SEO community are worried about negative SEO. If spammy links pointing at your site can hurt you, then can’t competitors just buy a bunch of them and point them at your site? (Google says they work hard to prevent this.) 
"

...

"
I can only conclude that Bing may in fact lower a site’s ranking due to spammy incoming links. If that’s the case, then this tool is great and useful.  


Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/29/12 7:39 AM
Hitwise: Bing Has Chipped Away 5 Percent Of Google’s Search Share Over Past Year

"
Google continues to hold a death-grip on search market share in the U.S., but Experian Hitwise says that Bing has taken five percent of Google’s market share in the last 12 months.
"

"
Hitwise credits Yahoo with two consecutive months of search gains. For the sake of comparison, comScore recently reported that Yahoo’s search share has dropped for nine consecutive months.
"


Possibly because Bing is getting more on top of some features?

Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/29/12 7:48 AM
How does Google or Bing know who created the external links to a website?  Thus, it seems reasonable to me that they supply a mechanism for people to say to not use those for ranking purposes if they are used as punishment.  However, if there was a massive amount possibly they will still punish to some degree?  But again, if they do not know for sure if a website was the ones who created them ...  Can certainly see why the sites that did it themselves should be lowered by degree of severity of links should be punished, but just not clear how they would know.  And if they do not know and punish, seems Negative SEO comes into play.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. seo101 6/29/12 12:09 PM
"Thus, it seems reasonable to me that they supply a mechanism for people to say to not use those for ranking purposes"

But BIng are NOT letting you do that!
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/29/12 12:42 PM
"But BIng are NOT letting you do that!"

Ok, maybe they won't directly but if enough people signaled them that they do not want their rank "benefited/hurt" from certain sites, seems like Bing or Google if they do the same overtime could weed out those sites that have a massive amount of links pointing to one site?

So far I have not seen the problem but others do.  Now if they created the problem themselves then the punishment is deserved but maybe they learned their lesson thus at least Bing may consider allowing them to get our of the mess.  But if it is about bad competitors etc. doing it then ...  But again, how does Bing or Google know who created all those links that some people are saying they have that they did not do.  Now some yes have said they hired an "seo" to do that so they are still responsible but I believe in giving people a chance unless it is very excessive that they themselves did.  But again, how would any search engine know?


Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. StevieD_Web 6/29/12 12:59 PM
 >how would any search engine know? 

It is not as hard as you think.

Start with the basics.  Sites that advertise "link with me" are clearly willing to engage in reciprocal links.  We (the forum volunteers) can find those reciprocal link requests pretty easy.  Google can do it faster and easier and their data base is much larger than the couple 1000 sites I evaluate each year.  There is stuff we miss, because we don't look for it or don't know where/how to look for it.... one site at a time.  But Google has billions of websites in their database and can scale their analysis to find patterns of behaviors that us mere mortals will miss.


  
fathom 6/29/12 1:18 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/29/12 1:29 PM
"Google has billions of websites in their database and can scale their analysis to find patterns of behaviors that us mere mortals will miss"

Yes, I get that and I do believe Google and Bing hav sophicated methods in which to detect questionable patterns.  But because some website did some reciprocal linking does not mean they are extreme at it.  So seems like if the bad ones want to hurt people all they have to do is go find those who did a portion of that and then do excessive external linking to their site to make the sites they target look even worse?  Just considering what could happen.  I believe that some were trained wrong thus do not deserve to be excessively punished.  But if Google or Bing or any other search engine can truly detect the abusive website I support that, just not if their algorithims are so tight they hurt way too many unnecessarily.


"another party has a great interest in your business developments"

I have seen one person "taken out", did not know them at all but it was very obvious and was to others as well.  I have had minor issues where I highly suspect a few did some things to try to do a bit of damage but overall yes nearly all competitors do not.  However, because of the change of events, it seems highly possible that more and more unethical people will do much more. Those who did extreme spamming to in reality steal from many other websites likely are not going to just go away.  Yes, that is speculation but ...  I also believe it is possible the "big boy" corps engage in negative seo but that is just a belief.

Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 6/29/12 1:31 PM

On Friday, June 29, 2012 4:42:22 PM UTC-3, Panda_Effects wrote:
So far I have not seen the problem but others do.  
 
The problem is not that Negative SEO could work - I am sure there are situations where you do absolutely nothing to promote your domain, you just made a great website and everyone around you points to it. And, because you did nothing wrong... a competitor MUST TAKE YOU OUT!
 
I bet that might happen, ok it could happen, and ok it probably, on occasion, does happen (maybe)... but the key to all of this is "not promoting" and the number of domain with complaints have all "promoted" so unless you are willing to accept you accidentially (or intentionally) harmed yourself it is pointless to pretend another party has a greater interest in your business developments than you do.
 
The tool CANNOT make you "tell the truth" nor can you reason with it so is make you "understand the truth". All it will do is allow you to foster your suspicious that are 99.99% of the time unfounded.
 
The classic response you get from anyone that suspects they have been harmed by a competitor (someone else) is "it doesn't matter"... HUH?
 
It does not matter that someone intentionally caused you harm through unfair business practices.

Causing you harm implies "ACTUALLY CAUSING PROVABLE DAMAGES" which is any law firms dream come true. But no one desires to recover their loses – right? "No way... I don’t want my lost revenue back... are you kidding me! "
 
Because of what?
 
Proving that it happened is easy and if it occurred to you, you have proof.. . and in civil court it is a preponderance of evidence.
 
People believe myths... and they do not need proof for a myth to flourish. All they need is a mob saying the same thing.
 
The tool cannot solve any problem, real or imagined, if you are not interested in the truth to start with.
 
Be that as it may, it's just a hype tool to hype and increase market share. 
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/29/12 1:36 PM
"The tool cannot solve any of the real problems... it's just a hype tool to 
hype market share... IMHO."

That may well be true but suspect that because it is pushed for by so many and since both of the top search engines have indicated either they have a tool or might seems it could help, otherwise I do not believe they would even have talked about it.

As far as not solving any real problems, I think it could.  Imagine if a bad site kept linking to many others sites in order to hurt them and enough webmasters informed the search engines of that in the Webmaster Tools.  I think the search engines could then de-index the abusing site and thus indirectly it could get others out of "hot water".  If a website had many other bad signals, they likely will stay in "hot water" until they either fix it or maybe all they could hope for is some improvement?

It seems feasible to me, but just my opinion.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/29/12 2:06 PM
"engage in reciprocal links"

There is nothing wrong with minimal reciprocal linking and can be very natural.  Remember Google says excessive.  See the searchengineland article too.

"
Link Out
I know that reciprocal links aren’t a great strategy for the most part (usually because they are so poorly done) but there is nothing wrong with linking to someone who links to you if you don’t abuse it and rely on it. In fact, linking out initially, to a site that you’d love to get a link from, is a great way to get noticed and generate a link of your own.

If you’re checking for new links or mentions of your name/brand and you see something pop up, don’t you usually check it out? I certainly do, and I occasionally find great new sources to keep my eye on. Even if a link out doesn’t get you a reciprocal link immediately, it still has the potential to help you form a connection that can help you down the road.
"


But if some are doing excessive and not doing it correctly like not using rel=nofollow then could have bigger issues.  If some had minimal link backs and are not using rel=nofollow I think they should.  And they should keep it only to sites that are somewhat related to what their business is about.

If Google is punishing the bad ones that engaged in link farms can see that, but if it is still fairly minor believe those websites should be given an opportunity to fix and believe Google is likely doing that.  With the excessive ones, think there should always be a punishment for those.  The trick is to not overly punish small businesses who were trained wrong and the intent (another Google word) was to abuse the system but give then a chance.  Those people could be your customers or just fine people who were misled.

With the sites that are doing excessive linking to others to do harm to them IF that can be determined and if the search engines are truly punishing websites for other website harmful actions, that is what is troublesome.


Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. ShopSafe 6/29/12 5:37 PM
Sorry for the longest sentence ever written here but the only people that don't like the idea a link disavowal tool that will empower users to protect themselves from unconscionable tactics are the control freaks who get their jollies from making miserable people feel more miserable and the ambulance-chaser parasites who hang around here making false promises to pinch what little money is left from the desperate. 
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 6/29/12 6:25 PM
You know... if you actually did some research you might find you prefer misleading members over being helpful.
 
But I'm launching a new website to correct your misgivings if you haven't noticed yet.
 
I'll gladly post your facts about "ambulance-chaser parasites who hang around here making false promises to pinch what little money is left from the desperate," if you actually have some evidence but simply lying to people isn't going to pass the sniff test.
 
I don't see how a Bing.com tool helps a PENGUIN issue... Microsoft guessing about what they don't know does not make a great tool to start with and I find it hard to believe Google would share their PENGUIN secrets with Microsoft.
 
I'm sure a Bing.com tool will be useful to bing issues but this is Google not BIng.com
 
I do take money from members... (I do believe a great many people do) and I do fix their problems... which oddly enough... you don't
 
You don't charge from your misguided advisories but I would believe you cost members plenty of damages providing free misdirections.
 
Shop Safe Troll
Pelagic 6/30/12 7:22 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Pelagic 6/30/12 7:23 AM
"I do take money from members... (I do believe a great many people do) "

Fathom, you could not be more wrong, regular contributors in this forum do not tout or accept any business from it, whatsoever !

fathom 6/30/12 10:54 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 6/30/12 1:36 PM

On Saturday, June 30, 2012 11:23:09 AM UTC-3, Pelagic wrote:
"I do take money from members... (I do believe a great many people do) "
 
Fathom, you could not be more wrong, regular contributors in this forum do not tout or accept any business from it, whatsoever !
 

Well maybe you should, I mean help even one person for weeks of endless link removals (for free) or does your hypocrisy stop at just offering free words awith no accountability policy?

 

Now that we are completely off-topic whether your statement is true or untrue, what everyone does with their free time may or may not be what they earn a living with but both of those values are a reflection of your personal interest and business offerings, not mine.

 

If you do not assist anyone beyond simply unaccredited guidance I will not fault you for that.

 

I have disclosed that I service SEO Practitioners.

 

I have disclosed that I invested in link schemes and webspam for many years and because of that I offer a unique vantagepoint here.

 

I have disclosed that I bail SEO Practitioners out when they get themselves into trouble with their customers.

 

I have disclosed my dealings with John Mu personally and I use my own revenue to resolve things like "paying link owners to remove links because the labor is too difficult to do, for free," I also demand access to their data pool and if denied – I cannot help them. They can get free opinions without access to privilege information right here.

 

I get that some, many or most regular contributors in these forums are not professional SEO Practitioners. Well I am, and you cannot claim your non-touts are superior. I have a thick skin,

 

When someone comes to me with a problem and is willing to pay for help... I won't say to them,  “sorry I don't tout nor accept any business from here because only con men and scam artists do that.”

 

I welcome the debate on the matter and I will not fault you for earning a living whatever way you may.

 

Back on topic, I believe it is wrong to push an agenda "just because".

 

A link disavow tool that does not actually disavow isn't a link disavow tool... it’s a hype.

 
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Geminineil 6/30/12 3:19 PM
"I do take money from members... (I do believe a great many people do) and I do fix their problems... which oddly enough... you don't"

I am sure there are many with a view on this.. personally I don't agree with having a Google help forum where people in need are sent to directly by Google for assistance with people then touting for business).

Google write... "please see our Webmaster Help Forum for support." there is no mention of paid services there.

Also, where do you draw the line in terms of people on here offering paid services... some are very open about it and they get 'slaughtered' (rightly so in my opinion) but others seemingly do it more discreetly and get away with it...

IF there is to be an option for people to pay for services then why not have a 'services board' where 'legitimate (whatever they are) seo put forward their services and provide the portfolio of expertise openly....
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 6/30/12 3:57 PM
Again - off topic.
 
It is a help forum and people are quite helpful (including myself).That said, start another thread on the matter... and post here about the disavow tool.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. ShopSafe 6/30/12 4:04 PM
Ignore the static. Continue posting whatever you like in this discussion, Geminineil. This thread is not a "request for answers", it's a discussion that I opened and your input is as relevant as anybody else's.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Geminineil 6/30/12 4:13 PM
Fathom.. 95% of your last two posts have been 'off topic' so with due respect...

and yes back on topic... not sure about the Bing disavow tool... and if and when Google implement this will it be abused by some who will try out some links to see IF they get hit and then disavow them...

difficult scenario.... you can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time...

BUT... given that "Negative backlinking" is possible... then a disavow tool would surely wipe that out....

so on balance I am still sitting on the fence with this one....
ShopSafe 6/30/12 4:30 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. ShopSafe 6/30/12 4:36 PM
Everyone joining this forum agrees not to tout for business here. It's part of the TOS. Anybody who does is doing the wrong thing.

Personally, I am not against the free market, For example Sasch Mayer is essentially an SEO but at least he knows what is going on and how things work. I've never seen him give a bad answer here. (There are others who are also TC's or former TC's who I also respect, I'm just using him as an example). However there are others who say the most ridiculous and dishonest things to bedazzle the gullible in distress. They should not be allowed to post here.

The only thing I'm concerned about is that people are being misled at a time when they are already in trouble (by con-men who are clearly clueless). Pretending to have the answers when it is clear that they have no idea is tantamount to fraud.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 4:37 PM
"not sure about the Bing disavow tool... and if and when Google implement this will it be abused by some who will try out some links to see IF they get hit and then disavow them"

Since Google has a sophisticated system in which to detect questionable activity, seems that if they implement this tool they will be "watching" how it is used/abused.

So if some are opposed to this tool because they think bad spammers are going to have a "way out", I doubt it as think both Google and Bing will program things to consider previous history and new actions.

I think Google and Bing are likely to allow sites that had much lower issues to utilize the tool as long as they do not do anymore questionable things and if they do they will likely be punished by severity of the issue.  IMO

Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 6/30/12 4:55 PM

On Saturday, June 30, 2012 8:36:24 PM UTC-3, ShopSafe wrote:
Everyone joining this forum agrees not to tout for business here. It's part of the TOS. Anybody who does is doing the wrong thing.
 
APPROPRIATE CONDUCT 
     
    You agree that you are responsible for your own conduct and any Content that you create, transmit or display while using Google services and for any consequences thereof. You agree to use Google services only for purposes that are legal, proper and in accordance with the Terms and any applicable policies or guidelines. You agree that you will not engage in any activity that interferes with or disrupts Google services or servers or networks connected to Google services.
 
That is as close as I can get to what I agreed to.

Personally, I am not against the free market, For example Sasch Mayer is essentially an SEO but at least he knows what is going on and how things work. I've never seen him give a bad answer here. (There are others who are also TC's or former TC's who I also respect, I'm just using him as an example). However there are others who say the most ridiculous and dishonest things to bedazzle the gullible in distress. They should not be allowed to post here.
 
I suspect if you knew any of these dishonest things were occurring you would report them to Google. Correct?
The only thing I'm concerned about is that people are being misled at a time when they are already in trouble (by con-men who are clearly clueless). Pretending to have the answers when it is clear that they have no idea is tantamount to fraud.
 
You are so concerned that you can't be bothered to report this to Google? 
 
Odd way of saying you are "concerned".
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. ShopSafe 6/30/12 5:00 PM
I'm not going to try to imagine how Google or Bing will implement or deal with the link disavowal tool but I think many are missing the point that the tool will only be useful to those being undermined by competitors or agents acting for competitors. 

If this is not happening to you, it will be perfectly safe to ignore it.

Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 6/30/12 5:03 PM

On Saturday, June 30, 2012 8:37:00 PM UTC-3, Panda_Effects wrote:
"not sure about the Bing disavow tool... and if and when Google implement this will it be abused by some who will try out some links to see IF they get hit and then disavow them"

Educating people in what is actually webspam... is the only tools needed.
 
Dan Thies had a confirmed case of someone attempting negative SEO. (the company doing it reported themselves). His domain is back to normal and the only issue that was worth a look was he went ranked #34 for SEO to #1, to gone and now back to #34 again... in less than one month.
 
Adding #34 isn't much of a lose of ranking value to begin with.
 
The problem isn't that... it's people not knowing that their developed links are webspam and if you don't believe your own links are the issue... you ain't going to disavow them which means perpetual loses.
 
 
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 5:05 PM
"Spam. In these forums, we're all responsible for keeping the community spam-free"


What is the difference if someone posts their url here to spam or others who tout their services?
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 5:08 PM
"think many are missing the point that the tool will only be useful to those being undermined by competitors or agents acting for competitors"

I could imagine though some who created many thousands of external links pointing to their website might try to use the tool to say do not count them for ranking purposes.  I just believe Google and Bing will likely still consider that if they truly know who created them. How could Google or Bing etc. know if it was done by a website themselves or bad competitors etc.?
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 5:15 PM
I think that it is possible Google is delayed with this tool to address the issue I stated above and what I think is the reason some here do not want the tool.  I believe Google and some of these people do not want a "free, get out of jail card" for bad spammers.  And I would agree for big bad spammers.  But not for those who were trained wrong or hired bad "seo's" as think they deserve a change to fix things.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 6/30/12 5:15 PM

On Saturday, June 30, 2012 9:00:57 PM UTC-3, ShopSafe wrote:
the tool will only be useful to those being undermined by competitors or agents acting for competitors. 
Proving a competitor did anything seem problematic... how do you determine who did what? Just looking at links provides no understanding of motive and certainly does not suggest "these links are the ones that caused a devaluation".
 
I've work with 20+ site owners and all bought links, traded links, article posted links, forum sig links, footer links, blog posting links, are involved in link schemes, etc. and 3 claimed negative SEO ... but refuting their own paid links, traded links, article posted links, forum sig links, footer links, blog posting links, are involved in link schemes, etc. they soon realize they are mistaken.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 5:20 PM
But also believe that it is likely Google and Bing may only likely consider external links going into a site that are harmful if during like the Panda/Penguin timeframes.  Thus those who had big issues before then, may be out of luck unless they have been actively working to fix that?
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. ShopSafe 6/30/12 5:21 PM
Spammers are dumber than dog droppings, Panda_Effects. 

While I am not going to try and imagine how it's all going to work, I think it's a given that Bing and Google will be ready and waiting for them. :) 
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 5:22 PM
"Just looking at links provides no understanding of motive"

And the same can be said for Google or Bing etc. thus why those who have minor issues compared to the big bad spammers should have a tool to work with to at least help somewhat.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 6/30/12 5:25 PM

On Saturday, June 30, 2012 9:21:02 PM UTC-3, ShopSafe wrote:

Spammers are dumber than dog droppings,

...but look how much dancing you do for them. 
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 5:28 PM
"but look how much dancing you do for them"

Actually I see the complete opposite,  SafeSurf is simply supporting those who got in a mess because they were trained wrong or hired bad so called "seo's".

As SafeSurf just said
"I think it's a given that Bing and Google will be ready and waiting for them."

So there is at least two here who believe the search engines will be smart enough to detect the bad abusers.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 5:37 PM
Correction ShopSafe :)
fathom 6/30/12 5:38 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 6/30/12 5:41 PM
I believe you are trying to make meaning out of what he said... he implies only 3rd party competitors are harming and the tool would only help those being harmed in that way.
 
The logic of Negative SEO is based on Google not knowing the difference between whom developed what... saying Google now does know the difference is a conflict in the Negative SEO saga.
This guy thought he was harmed by a iFrame used on multiple sites, and when PENGUIN hit it confused the hell out of him so you requested reconsideration... now he has a MANUAL REVIEW because (I assume) b=much of his webspam actually got by PENGUIN but not Googlers.
In this case... a disavow tool would probably be used on the iFrame links but since those are not the problem the site owner sits in limbo never realizing that his paid for post link network isn't all the natural.
A dummy tool will not prevent dummies from ignoring the obvious.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 5:45 PM
"I believe you are trying to make meaning out of what he said"

Actually no, because I believe the same that it is very feasible for bad competitors etc. might be able to do great harm and believe that some websites should get somewhat of a break because they were trained wrong or hired bad "seo's".  And since Bing has a tool now and Google is at least considering it, seems to me they also believe it.

"A dummy tool will not prevent dummies from ignoring the obvious."  

I agree if some spend much of their efforts only with this tool as yes then they could be ignoring what might be much bigger issues or equal etc.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. ShopSafe 6/30/12 5:54 PM
@Panda_Effects, I don't mind what I am called. :)

However I do want to correct this because I am not "supporting those who got in a mess because they were trained wrong or hired bad so called "seo's"."

I have no sympathy for them, they made their choice, good or bad, and it turned out to be bad but it was their own choice. On the other hand consider that a website undermined and trashed by negative SEO by a competitor had no choice. They had no way of defending their deserved traffic from being algorithmically impacted while search engines (with knowledge aforethought) denied that negative SEO was possible.

It is the true innocents, (most of them the fabric of the early web) that this tool is being introduced for. I doubt it will help those who tried to game the system and lost and it's obvious from the opposition that they don't think so either.


Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 6/30/12 5:55 PM
I read this (ShopSafe 2nd last post:
 
I'm not going to try to imagine how Google or Bing will implement or deal with the link disavowal tool but I think many are missing the point that the tool will only be useful to those being undermined by competitors or agents acting for competitors.
 
If this is not happening to you, it will be perfectly safe to ignore it. 
 
So according to ShopSafe Google CAN distinguish who developed the backlink and rightfully why they are disconcern about competitors doing anything.
 
Man is ShopSafe BRILLIANT! :-)
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 5:56 PM
I think what some are missing is that I believe most people who come to this forum for help want the big bad spammers punished.  There is a huge difference between some violations and what the big bad spammers did. The intent is about that, the lesser "violators" who I believe did not know they were doing anything other that what they were trained to do. And some like ShopSafe and me believe that some who were trained improperly or hired bad "seo's deserve a tool if there are bad competitors using Negative SEO on them.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 6:00 PM
"So according to ShopSafe Google CAN distinguish who developed the backlink and rightfully why they are disconcern about competitors doing anything"

No, that is not what ShopSafe said.  He is simply saying that because it can happen Bing is providing a tool and Google is considering one.  I have asked this a number of times, how does Google or Bing etc. know who created those links.  But it is highly unfair to hurt many websites who get attacked.  I believe Google and Bing could use that tool to see how many of those bad sites are doing this thus de-index them which should help people.

With the big bad spammers however, I really doubt Bing or Google will just allow them to use the tool to their advantage as their is all that history.  That is clearer to understand intent, then some who just were trained improperly or hired bad "seo's". 
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. ShopSafe 6/30/12 6:12 PM
@Panda_effects

1. Spammers are irrelevant to this - all they do is drop domains and move on. They start again with another one that is not affected.

2. Your average person who makes mistakes is irrelevant to this too. A tool which REMOVES can't help them and will likely reduce them if they remove domains propping them up.

3. The ONLY domain that can benefit from a tool like this is one which is being attacked by negative SEO. This activity has a clearly-recognisable footprint, there is no mistaking it, you would know it instantly if you saw it.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 6:19 PM
ShopSafe said,

"1. Spammers are irrelevant to this - all they do is drop domains and move on. They start again with another one that is not affected.

2. Your average person who makes mistakes is irrelevant to this too. A tool which REMOVES can't help them and will likely reduce them if they remove domains propping them up.
"

I do not get these two, as big bad spammers are very likely to be the ones who attack other sites.  As they are likely competitors who which to hurt the rank of others.

The average person who makes mistakes to me is not irrelevant at all as seems if they find links they do not want to be associated with and want to disassociate themselves from them might help them.  I understand that if they are not careful, it could hurt them.  Some have talked about upperdowner for example.  There are some sites like porn, casinos etc. I believe many people do not want any incoming links coming from.  If enough people used the tool to disavow those, Google and Bing possibly could possibly de-index them if they deem those sites are behaving inappropriately.


Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 6:30 PM
Another example, suppose find sites linking to your website and find they are very spammy.  Since Google appears to be saying do not link to "bad neighborhoods", that tool maybe could help some who got links they do not want to be associated with.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 6:36 PM
"Spammers are irrelevant to this - all they do is drop domains and move 
on. They start again with another one that is not affected."

But yes do agree to a significant extent that big bad spammers likely do what you are saying.  However, am more talking about the types of spammers who do it and leave their domains intact.

Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. ShopSafe 6/30/12 6:43 PM
I don't think it's useful for people like us to debate how this tool will work but I'd like to share what I think happens when a competitor directs negative SEO against you.

First though, links are only one anti-competitive method of negative SEO employed out of many, but we'll only discuss links.

There's no evidence to say that a link from a pron site or a casino site or any site can hurt you.

This whole issue is about algorithmic thresholds and the assertions made by search engines over many years that links from any one source could not harm you ie if they were bad then they would be "discounted" or "ignored". Now we have been told that reaching a "threshold" can negatively impact you.

That is why this tool will be useless for anyone who is not being attacked by a competitor. You cannot ADD anything with it, you can only REMOVE something which might turn out to be useful to you. If you cannot see the clear signs of anti-competitive practice then it is most likely that any use of the tool is contra-indicated.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 6:53 PM
"There's no evidence to say that a link from a pron site or a casino site or any site can hurt you."

Google does say to not link to "bad neighborhoods.  Since it appears Google is using incoming links to a site especially if excessive as a punishment, being linked to sites that have nothing to do with one's business eeems like a good idea to disavow them.  I realize that could possibly hurt some as maybe Google or Bing would not consider them a "bad neighborhood" but why a good site would want visitors from what many consider bad sites is puzzling as to me if they gain in the search engines with certain keywords or keyword phrases that takes one to your site, that can hurt a business.   So while I understand you point, I think it could be used for that purpose.  I doubt the tool is simply there to address Negative SEO.

Can you give an example of what is actually seen with the type of Negative SEO you have observed?

I saw on my site for quite awhile bad referer sites sending "visitors" to my site.  And did as much blocking of them as possible and they finally went away.  Did go to one and could not find my site was linked there at all, so appears it was more of a DOS type attack which is a different kind of Negative SEO, although not extremely bad.

I think the usefulness in talking about how this tool can be used is in helping others see that it is not just a "get out of jail free card" and possibly understand more about what uses it could be used for.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 6:58 PM
Btw, with that site I could not find a link with my website on but who knows maybe they had it where they knew my pc ip address so I could not see it or maybe it was setup for the search engines to see only?  The whole thing was puzzling but because it was after Panda/Penguin believe it was some type of Negative SEO, but more the DOS type or some other strange thing.  I have seen some use my computer ip address when on my site which was very strange as well.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 7:10 PM
I had done some posts about zombie/fake/junk traffic as well and dns poisoning as well as was trying to see if others were seeing the same things.  Some other forum sites talked about it but apparently know one here had the problem.  For around 2 months, sales were pretty much dead yet my rank and amount of traffic remained about the same.  Something very strange occurred and have not figured out yet what the root cause was.  It is real about DNS hijacking, which would be another type of Negative SEO.  But some smaller  ISP's were caught red-handed doing that but suspect there may be much about that with even the larger ones?


Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. ShopSafe 6/30/12 7:16 PM
I am sorry but, to me, it doesn't make sense to give a roadmap for others to follow. 

Besides, you don't have to know how the electronic ignition works to drive the car perfectly well. :)

However from some of the non-link issues you described maybe you should consider using the tool, if/when it becomes available on Google's webmaster tools.

You could try using it straight away on Bing.

One positive aspect I noticed from Bing is that it seems to have triggered an intensive re-crawl of the first site I have tested. That cannot be a bad thing. :)
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 7:28 PM
I get your point ShopSafe about not saying too much, but on the other hand, bad people already know thus sometimes it can help for others to be somewhat prepared maybe a bit more of what can happen.  The more knowledge everyone has possibly the more defense they can have.

I did not see those links in Google WMT so still a mystery what all that was about but it happened much during my two months of dramatically lost sales.  I originally suspected it had to do with Panda but could not confirm that, but have also not ruled it out.

Interesting about Bing re-crawling after using their tool.  Might consider doing that sometime.  Was in their the other day but was before that new tool came out.


Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 7:31 PM
Another point, I am thinking because of some things you have said that you believe this tool by Bing and one that Google may make is mostly about Negative SEO like the type you are referring to.  I doubt that is all it is about and believe it may be more about some of the speculations I supplied but in addition your type.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 7:33 PM
But do understand that if you explained exactly how Negative SEO was used where you observed it and it would be something simple for many to do can understand your reservations in describing it.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 7:42 PM
ShopSafe said
"
However I do want to correct this because I am not "supporting those who got in a mess because they were trained wrong or hired bad so called "seo's"."

I have no sympathy for them, they made their choice, good or bad, and it turned out to be bad but it was their own choice. On the other hand consider that a website undermined and trashed by negative SEO by a competitor had no choice. They had no way of defending their deserved traffic from being algorithmically impacted while search engines (with knowledge aforethought) denied that negative SEO was possible.

It is the true innocents, (most of them the fabric of the early web) that this tool is being introduced for. I doubt it will help those who tried to game the system and lost and it's obvious from the opposition that they don't think so either.
"

I see those who were trained improperly or hired bad seo's similar to those who have the type of Negative SEO you have observed.

Both have been "had".  There are all types of people out there who use or hurt others for their gain.  The bad training I believe started and then escalated where there were so many "experts" out there saying do this or do that.  And some hired "SEO's" who just wanted the money.  Not much different than a bad competitor targeting a site as far as effects go.  Most here I do not believe had any intent to do anything other than do what they were "trained" to do.

Similar to the banks that loaned money the wrong way.  Yes, those who wanted the loan have responsibility but the bad polices had much to do with it.  And many lost their homes because of what I consider fraud.



Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 6/30/12 7:45 PM
On Saturday, June 30, 2012 11:16:58 PM UTC-3, ShopSafe wrote:
I am sorry but, to me, it doesn't make sense to give a roadmap for others to follow. 
 
Classic double talk.
 
Since negativeseo.me already posted "his guide" it is safe to say the cat's out of the bag.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 7:47 PM
And not much different than those who prey on these websites who listened to or hired the wrong people.  So while some do not have sympathy, surely they can empathize (understand how they got in the mess and others very much contributed to it).  Only talking about the sites that were not big bad spammers as the big bad spammers totally deserved it.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 8:07 PM
I am afraid to look at that site :)  If someone wants to, please put what it has on it here.

I think if it is a matter of simply doing massive adding of links to a number of websites pointing to a target quickly it is obvious IF Google is punishing for that.  Thus why a tool seems feasible and the right thing to do.  But also contend it can be used for other purposes than just Negative SEO.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 8:17 PM
"re-crawl of the first site I have tested"

ShopSafe, I have observed in Google's WMT that it has not been showing Google crawling much but do see a significant number in the logs.  Just have not calculated to see if somewhat the same.  But has been a big drop in WMT for some reason, unless they are just not showing it?
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 6/30/12 8:22 PM
There isn't anything on that domain... I didn't plan to have an active link.
 
 
 
Interesting read (afterthefact) and video from SEOMoz
 
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 6/30/12 8:27 PM
The original thread (first post) got added here:
 
https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!searchin/webmasters/dan$20thies/webmasters/Azfly-iRtLs/aMwWnCfASvYJ by TheSEOGuy (half way down) which if I remember correctly is Pixelgrinder from the other forum.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 6/30/12 8:39 PM
I'll also add the inherent problem with Negative SEO are the nasty side effects (for the alleged competitor)... especially with PENGUIN (please note all of that NEG SEO stuff occurred pre-PENGUIN).
 
The Dan Thies sites while temporarily increasing in ranks and then dropping for the targeted phrase... actually quadripled in traffic overall... I don't call anything negetive a success IF you pay for your competitor to increase in preferred traffic.
 
I'm sure a model can be built for NEG SEO... but predictable guaranteed negative results for a extended period... that absolutely impossible WITHOUT INSIDER KNOWLEDGE from WMT, Analytics, and knowledge of the general marketing plan for the website e.g. content creation etc.
 
You're talking out your arse without any field tests... and all that BS that in those thread was a complete fabrication... they tried and saw what they wanted to see but the insider data showed the real story... it didn't work "as planned".
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 8:44 PM
fathom, versus having to read all that but may later would you just give a summary of how it is done and how to protect?
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 8:47 PM
Ok, just saw your last post.  So your point is there is no proof that it works at least the way the links you gave above says?  If the traffic was bad traffic it could have a major effect.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 6/30/12 8:56 PM
Educate yourself... on not using webspam. Learn what webspam actually is and avoid it... you then have no vulnerabilities for anyone to exploit.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 8:58 PM
fathom, seems a number of you are convinced that Negative SEO is not really a factor.  But I am still questioning if that is true or not as did have two very strange months, but am also not excluding something else going on that is unrelated to Panda/Penguin.  Could have been timed however to do it around that time if done by something?  But irregardless with my situation I went through, still seems like enough talk about removing external links pointing to a website if they are from "bad neighborhoods" and it is puzzling that if it is not an issue, why would Google consider offering a tool and Bing actually having one now that might address it?  And Google has said Negative SEO can happen, although it sounds like they are also saying it is of low impact?

I am just trying to understand as logically it seems very feasible.  But don't want to discount all of you who say it really is not a factor.

What if a bot some competitor has planted many links pointing to a website very fast? Are you saying that Google or Bing would not punish the receiving website?
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 6/30/12 9:00 PM
The lure of NEGATIVE SEO is unnatural links.
 
If your ranks are not based on UNNATURAL your rise and fall in results is base purely on the NEGATIVE SEO developments... you get ranks sure (but those ranks were not of your making) from your competitor... and Google neutralizes that so you fall back to where you were.
 
That isn't harm... that's common sense.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 9:01 PM
"Educate yourself... on not using webspam. Learn what webspam actually is and avoid it... you then have no vulnerabilities for anyone to exploit."

That goes back to what I said earlier that could see bad competitors "taking out" others who already have issues to make them look even worse.  Seems Negative SEO could work for that.  But if a site was not penalized by Panda/Penguin then maybe Google would not punish the website as it is likely not caused by them since there was not the history?
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 6/30/12 9:17 PM
Every hear of a spam report? OR just bad competitors "taking out" others who already have issues... isn't this the same? Oh I forgot... "FOR FREE"... who would be dumb enough to pay for Negative SEO. If you're spamming you seriously can't be saying that you are solution... you're the problem, the cancer, pondscum... not the competitor playing fair.
 
Earlier in this thread I linked to the guy that reported himself to Google and got himself a MANUAL REVIEW! What a ****ing dumb***!
 
I had a customer once that reported himself to Google, because he thought he lost 4,000 visitors a day... he could fathom what was going on... come to find out that was direct marketing campaign that ended. Google fixed the problem, that cost me $120K! (it would take that ex-customer 10 years to pay me back).
 
He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not... is a fool.  
 
The important message... DIY SEO while easy enough to start requires an enormous learning curve if you plan to be any good and avoid the pitfall.
 
As I said before, I haven't seen a legitimate Negative SEO case yet. A few attempts but unsuccessful attempts.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 9:29 PM
"I haven't seen a legitimate Negative SEO case yet. A few attempts but unsuccessful attempts"

And I have not seen any proof either. However, still seems feasible and sounds like you do too.  But I also believe that Google likely factors in those who were affected by Panda/Penguin thus attempts on them more likely IF it happens as they are the likely candidates to be targeted by attackers.  Maybe similar to how DOS or type attacks or hack attemps are done on websites where they just keep hammering a site trying to break it or get in.  But with Negative SEO maybe they have bots that look for vulnerable sites and then could do it?  Just brainstorming.  And if they can target with or without anything to do with Panda/Penguin a website by affecting the DNS?  Just believe like I said quite some time ago that I seriously doubt the big bad spammers will give up as I believe it will become much more aggressive now because they likely got hit hard with Panda/Penguin.


Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. ShopSafe 6/30/12 9:40 PM
Of course there are blowhards here whose only aim is to impress suckers so they can gull them out of their money. I hope the reader is astute enough to recognise froth and bubble when they see it.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 6/30/12 9:43 PM

On Sunday, July 1, 2012 1:29:40 AM UTC-3, Panda_Effects wrote:
"I haven't seen a legitimate Negative SEO case yet. A few attempts but unsuccessful attempts"

And I have not seen any proof either. However, still seems feasible and sounds like you do too.
 
Anything is possible. No question. But without insider information... you cannot possibly set standard for your trade.
 
 But I also believe that Google likely factors in those who were affected by Panda/Penguin thus attempts on them more likely IF it happens as they are the likely candidates to be targeted by attackers.  Maybe similar to how DOS or type attacks or hack attemps are done on websites where they just keep hammering a site trying to break it or get in.
 
I got a notification from Google about a year ago for a forgotten blog that was attacked... malware.
 
4 days later it is was back... some negative attack.
 
 But with Negative SEO maybe they have bots that look for vulnerable sites and then could do it?  Just brainstorming.  And if they can target with or without anything to do with Panda/Penguin a website by affecting the DNS?  Just believe like I said quite some time ago that I seriously doubt the big bad spammers will give up as I believe it will become much more aggressive now because they likely got hit hard with Panda/Penguin.
 
All Negative SEO does... is make you play fair... I can't see getting all bent out of shape over webspam when you are already doing website... that's the part people need to get into their heads... they are part of the problem... not the solution. 
fathom 6/30/12 9:49 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 9:49 PM
"All Negative SEO does... is make you play fair."

I could agree with that to a part, but think there are truly bad competitors out there who do unscrupulous things to get more money.  It is not so much about some who do minor things, it is about those who do it to trample on other competitors to get them out of the way so they can get the income.  That is what I consider to be Negative SEO.  But more done by "professionals" who are much like dos attackers or website hackers.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 6/30/12 9:50 PM
What an excellent troll you posted!
Just in time to add this before I head to bed.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 9:51 PM
Imagine all the years that some sites through manipulating to an extreme amount in reality stole from many other websites by hacking or attacking etc.  Do you really believe they are just going to stop?  I do not, I think they will get extremely worse.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 6/30/12 9:54 PM
fathom, could not imagine why you said that to me as thought we were just having a good general discussion.  But see it was not for me LOL

You two might consider stopping it as it truly does go nowhere. All it takes is for one to stop.  Just something to consider.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. JohnMu 7/1/12 12:57 AM
Hi guys

I just want to drop a note to remember the posting guidelines and to remain civil here in the discussions. It's fine to have a heated discussion, I just want to make sure that you all remember your manners as it goes on. Thanks!

Also, with regards to something mentioned yesterday here, it's fine to offer professional, paid services and to be active here in the forum. We just ask that those who do, refrain from promoting them when posting here (they're welcome to keep them on their Google Profile though). 

Cheers
John
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Geminineil 7/1/12 5:35 AM
sorry to be pedantic but can that be clarified as it seems to contradict itself...


"it's fine to offer professional, paid services and to be active here in the forum. We just ask that those who do, refrain from promoting them when posting here (they're welcome to keep them on their Google Profile though).

I am not sure how anyone can offer professional, paid services without posting on the forum about them... or should this only be done via direct messaging or in a profile...

and good manners cost nothing! :)
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Pelagic 7/1/12 7:32 AM
Neil, there is no contradiction in John's reply, many SEO professionals contribute to the forum, they simply do not need to blow their own trumpets on any given forum to gain any potential business from them, conversely I would'nt regard those that may choose to do so as a being real professionals. 

Please note that I havn't pointed a finger at any individual that maybe doing so, my reply was very specific to what I believe to be a totally incorrect assertion > "I do take money from members... (I do believe a great many people do)"
fathom 7/1/12 9:00 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 7/1/12 9:06 AM
...your specific reply Pelagic like all opinions, that is an opinion and not a corrected view based on any collected evidence from the community. Your assertion is purely an assumption. Admittedly so was mine. So thanks for pointing that out.
You'll find one post from me where I directly suggested the OP could get paid help (from me) and admittedly I was cautioned privately. John elegantly pointed out some suggestions and since that time I have refrained from doing so. (nice guy... not sure if I ever wanted to meet him in a bar fight though) 
But when you post rherotic you had better be prepared to support it... and ShopSafe has a habit of misleading members, whether that is intentionally or unintentionally I do not know... but that's likely why he now follows me around and like a dog gnawing on a bone he won't let it go and posts trolls that help no one.
Be that as it may, since he can't be bothered to share with the community his gathered wisdom about me - I'll just keep posting and collecting his trolls for my ShopSafe Troll website so that in the future I won't need to defend against his trolls - I'll just post the url and everyone can get a comprehensive view of the man.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 7/1/12 9:16 AM
I've seen numerous TC guide people to their profiles to click... honestly though just posting sound advice garners it's own rewards... Most jobs I get are from people that have never posted. They passively search for answers.
 
I'm one... I lurked here for at least 6 years.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 7/1/12 9:17 AM
Just my opinion, but I would just let it go for all time.  I think what happened is one said something "rude" to the other and thus the back and forth started.  But since then, I have observed both having responsibility.

So seems more like a battle of wits, thus why not both of you just let it go forever?  I think both can raise good points but sometimes to counter, some may take "pot shots" making it much more personal which causes more disruption and escalates.

Also, opinions should be fine without anyone having to prove anything.  That can make for a good debate and can not reach a conclusion but still worthy.  If it can be proved even better, but many times it cannot.  Some are more Analytical based and others more general comments.  The OP states they know how it is done and does not want to describe it and that is a valid point.  Another can say prove it and that can be ok as long as it is not "demanded".
fathom 7/1/12 10:23 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 7/1/12 10:32 AM
On Sunday, July 1, 2012 1:17:29 PM UTC-3, Panda_Effects wrote:
Also, opinions should be fine without anyone having to prove anything. That can make for a good debate and can not reach a conclusion but still worthy.
Opinion's are great... but trolls should be clarified so the community can tell what is an actual concern... or not so let's debate this:

You should be made aware that grifters frequent these forums soliciting donations. They will say anything to gain access to your wallet but remember that Peer-reviewed advice is free here, do not pay anyone who contacts you directly.

This is a troll (IMHO) of ShopSafe that seems to have some merit of fact but he does not actually provide anything to quantify this statement and the post wasn't part of the on topic discussion so "a troll". I find it incrreasing odd that such comments ONLY find a valid place ONLY in threads I post in and ONLY after I've posted. That could be completely coincidental.
Is it completely coincidental ShopSafe or are you intentionally targeting me?
 
You've done this 48 times now and as geminineil points out many of my last two posts are spent commenting on your trolls... I seriously believe if you had evidence you would have provided that to TCs or Googlers by now... since are so concerned with the wellbeing of the membership... or are you?
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 7/1/12 10:33 AM
I think just simply stating for someone to contact them if they want more assistance is ok.  But indicating why is not?  I have zero problem with people making money and it was clarified it is ok to do so but just not indicate it as that can be considered spam?  Just let it happen naturally without any "hints".  If people like what a contributor says and they contact that person or goes to their profile suggested by a contributor to get more help they will do so.  But nearly all contributors likely do not say why, I believe.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 7/1/12 10:36 AM
fathom, please just let it go.  It sounds like a battle of who is trying to discredit another which is useless as think most see both of you can offer good posts.  So both needs to stop, just walk away from it.  If necessary, just ignore threads some are in or if in there and one says something contrary, just ignore it.  That will gain the person who ignores it more "praise" I believe.

Just for some humor.  Yes, sometimes have to stand for things but this group is not for that as has been stated.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 7/1/12 10:43 AM

On Sunday, July 1, 2012 2:36:47 PM UTC-3, Panda_Effects wrote:

fathom, please just let it go.  

Well... OK
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Panda_Effects 7/1/12 10:44 AM
Great. Thank you.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Pelagic 7/4/12 8:34 AM
Fathom > "your specific reply Pelagic like all opinions, that is an opinion and not a corrected view based on any collected evidence from the community. Your assertion is purely an assumption."

I guess I'm familiar enough with regular contributors in this forum to confidently make that assertion, yes there is one who used to offer a particular and simple service for pocket change, but significantly they provided all the instructions on their site to do the same for free and to this day provides a ton of support in the forum for free, it was all completely transparent ;)

Shopsafe has provided many with honest helpful advice over the years, I can assure you that his intent is definitely not to mislead anyone, like everyone else he has his own opinions, some which we totally disagree on, but that's totally fine and good ;)
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 7/4/12 9:30 AM
Shopsafe has provided many with honest helpful advice over the years,

OK well maybe but that was then... here in this thread 5 days ago:
 
On Friday, June 29, 2012 9:37:23 PM UTC-3, ShopSafe wrote:

Sorry for the longest sentence ever written here but the only people that don't like the idea a link disavowal tool that will empower users to protect themselves from unconscionable tactics are the control freaks who get their jollies from making miserable people feel more miserable and the ambulance-chaser parasites who hang around here making false promises to pinch what little money is left from the desperate.

Is this the measure of helpfulness today? Seriously?
 
Actually, in my research I found he has had a systemic problem that was apparently noticable to 3 TC's in March 2011 http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/webmasters/QFn9dd-WQNk
 

"ShopSafe, will you please stop hijacking other people's threads."

He claims in that thread:
 
I have the utmost respect for every poster on this forum, no exceptions.
 
I would be genuinely glad to have a factual inaccuracy pointed out and be shown where I am going wrong.
 
I'm factually showing those inaccuracies now and he seemingly does not care and you seemingly wish to either enable him or just wish to ignore it completely.
 
Sorry I won't.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Pelagic 7/4/12 10:49 AM

Fathom, I'm very familiar with Shopsafe's site, and he will confirm that I have very harshly ripped into it privately with him (probably more than anyone else), we totally disagree on the issues affecting it, he has his opinion on it and I have mine, that of course doesn't mean that I am right though ;) 

You cite one example where you assert that he provided an unhelpful response, did you miss the fact that he created this thread ? 


Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 7/4/12 11:05 AM
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 2:49:57 PM UTC-3, Pelagic wrote:
You cite one example where you assert that he provided an unhelpful response, did you miss the fact that he created this thread ? 
 
LOL... hijacking your own thread isn't much of a problem though.
 
If ShopSafe wishes to disrepect himself... I can't argue with that.
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Pelagic 7/4/12 11:32 AM
One might say Rod that you have done much more harm to your reputation in this forum already, hopefully it will be water under the bridge and that you might perhaps exercise a little bit more professionalism in the future ;)
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 7/4/12 11:43 AM
One might say that.
 
Then again... .
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. JohnMu 7/4/12 11:46 AM
This thread seems like it's going a bit off course -- We're happy to have you guys discuss any kinds of theoretical issues like these, but please discuss the topic without attacking each other. Thanks.

With regards to the rel=nofollow; if you have problematic links pointing to your site (in ways that would be against our Webmaster Guidelines), then using the rel=nofollow would almost equivalent to removing those links completely. It won't be completely equivalent once you look past the PageRank-passing because we'd still show it in Webmaster Tools, users can still click through those links, and your site will still be mentioned on the other site. If a link is useful and bringing relevant visitors to your site, then it's fine to use rel=nofollow if it's a paid link -- you don't have to remove it. On the other hand, if it's a link dropped in a spammy comment on someone's blog, then if I were the webmaster and had originally placed the link there (or paid a SEO to do that), that would be embarrassing to me, and would be something I'd try to have reverted / removed. Comment-spamming and dropping links on other people's sites is a particularly bad way to make friends with other webmasters, so even if the algorithms were to ignore those links with a rel=nofollow, I'd personally (independent of all SEO aspects) want to have that cleaned up and make amends if it affected my site. 

Also, if it's your site that has those links on it, while using a rel=nofollow for comments is a great way to prevent those links from counting and from forwarding PageRank, leaving comment spam on your site can appear a bit unprofessional. In some cases, if it's extreme, it can also result in algorithmic action being taken -- not because of the links, but because of the text that's associated with those links. You can imagine that a blog post on pet-training, filled with comments about inexpensive pharmaceuticals might make it a bit hard for our algorithms to understand what the page is actually about, and in some cases, might appear to be keyword-stuffed text. 

Cheers
John
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. jimcook1 7/6/12 1:40 AM
With regards to the rel=nofollow; if you have problematic links pointing to your site (in ways that would be against our Webmaster Guidelines), then using the rel=nofollow would almost equivalent to removing those links completely

How do you use rel=nofollow on incoming links?
Pelagic 7/6/12 9:16 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. Pelagic 7/6/12 9:21 AM
Jimcook, If you have paid for links or even links created directly by yourself on sites that you also own, for the sole purpose of passing PR, then you will be able to apply a nofollow to them ;) 
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. fathom 7/6/12 11:28 AM

On Friday, July 6, 2012 5:40:08 AM UTC-3, jimcook1 wrote:
With regards to the rel=nofollow; if you have problematic links pointing to your site (in ways that would be against our Webmaster Guidelines), then using the rel=nofollow would almost equivalent to removing those links completely

How do you use rel=nofollow on incoming links?
 
In the actual code of the linking page <a href="link-url-to-somewhere.com/index.html" rel="nofollow">link anchor</a>
Re: Bing has a Link Disavowal Tool. jimcook1 7/9/12 1:05 AM
Oh I see, yes I know how to add nofollow on links, I thought there was a way to do it on links I have no control over.

I guess I will have to wait for Google's disavow tool
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