Categories: Crawling, indexing & ranking :

Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin?

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Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? naplesfl 6/6/12 3:49 PM
Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin?
Parkin 6/6/12 5:03 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Lysis 6/6/12 5:09 PM
I dunno, but it could possibly compete with the crazies on the Adsense forum threatening to starve to death if google doesn't give them back their adsense account. Maybe Webmasters and Adsense junkies could compete for who is the biggest losers?
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? StevieD_Web 6/6/12 6:08 PM
>Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? 

Need help? In the U.S., call 1-800-273-8255
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline

Parkin 6/6/12 6:59 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Jonny Quick 6/6/12 7:08 PM
Good news.  I read somewhere Solyent Green supplies were running low.
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Panda_Effects 6/6/12 8:31 PM
naplesfl and Parkin,

Looks like some just cannot put things into perspective.

Suppose the others who posted here with their smart alec comments, had their rent or electricity raised OVERNIGHT by say $1000 or even $5000 per month.

Something some of you might want to consider.  If there were enough warning of course you could move to a smaller home.
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? fathom 6/6/12 8:42 PM
Contrary to your analogy isn't more like you had FREE rent & electricity and now someone else is saying you can't have it for free anymore?
 
You have to start "investing" sooner or later.
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Jonny Quick 6/6/12 8:42 PM
The electricity didn't get increased, they finally got popped on a DUI after spending the last few years driving around drunk.  Now they are in jail, facing fines and someone shows up demanding sympathy.  I rather enjoy the wailing of the previously #1 ranked site-owners demonstrating their complete lack of SEO knowledge.  They made their money paying 3rd world spammers peanuts and now they are paying the price.  Please, continue crying, but with more FEELING this time.  You-all need to EMOTE more, and get in touch with your motivation.  Also, we need make-up to cover that shiny spot on your forehead.

And.... ACTION!
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Panda_Effects 6/6/12 8:54 PM
fathom,  the keyword is OVERNIGHT.  Irregardless if free or not free changing something so fast can have extreme effects on a business.  Imagine if all of a sudden in a shopping mall, the lower shops had to pay $25k while the big retailers in that mall got even sweeter deals.

The issue really is not about free or not free, it is about wiping many out overnight.

Some here still have bad attitudes blaming people who just were simply trained wrong or believe that was how things were done.  Speaking about that Quick nut with this comment but others have done that too much before.  Seems it can get better and then because maybe the weather got too hot, some go way overboard again.
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? SEO Alien 6/6/12 8:55 PM
Nothing found for India .. any phone no for india? 
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? 888wolfdog888 6/6/12 8:59 PM
Personally I'm not convinced that Google themselves even knew what was fully going to happen!

They just ran it to find out lol!

And judging from the rerun I would say they where collecting a lot of data.
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? seo101 6/6/12 10:18 PM
" Not all at the Adsense participants are killing them selves, some are fighting back.
Found this link....."

duh? Did you not notice the date that thread was started and that there was not actually a class action and there isn't one. Don't tell me you fell for it as well?
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? seochamp39 6/10/12 2:01 PM
Penguin is a disgusting , slimy, gross, greasy... utter disaster.

The search results are poor quality, hacked sites everywhere, insane damage to the Internet.

Penguin was one step towards putting Big Brands in control of online, Google was the best way to 
"lead the charge", per say. Penguin did just that.
Grandmaster Flash 6/10/12 3:09 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Grandmaster Flash 6/10/12 3:12 PM
Oh Graham, I'm sorry I even responded, you're the bigot who blamed Panda on Indian engineers.
Go become a statistic, the world needs less of you and your kind.

You're an embarrassment to real estate professionals everywhere
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Realmaverick 6/10/12 3:49 PM
Fathom, the traffic wasn't "free" as you put it. Because free indicates there was no cost. Many of those who were receiving this apparent "free" traffic, had actually invested a lot of time and money, in to creating quality content, which generated the traffic. 

I'm getting sick and tired of hearing apparently smart people, harp on about how dumb it was to build you business model around Google. Well it worked for many many years and it is continuing to work for a lot of people. 

Some people truly deserved the slap they've received, others made silly mistakes and some don't have a clue why their lives have been turned upside down.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least, if Panda and Penguin don't result in a lot of suicide attempts. When mortgage repayments cannot be met, bills can't be paid and life just gets too hard to bear. 


Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Grandmaster Flash 6/10/12 3:54 PM
Lots of people invested a lot of money, time and effort in brick & mortar businesses and still failed. Try again.
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? seo101 6/10/12 3:56 PM
@tehk --- how much are you paying Google for the traffic? NOTHING! End of argument. 
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? seo101 6/10/12 3:57 PM
" Lots of people invested a lot of money, time and effort in brick & mortar businesses and still failed."

....and they do usually blame everyone else for their failure, rather than the actual business model that they made a choice to follow
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Panda_Effects 6/10/12 4:27 PM
Let's say you own a downtown B&M store in the shopping mall.  Nothing wrong with your model but the powers that be decide they want to make billions more so they up the cost to reside there by a 50% increase overnight?

Another example, what if the government wanted to up the taxes by 50% for every body overnight so they could just keep spending and spending?  Nothing wrong with your lifestyle, but now the gov pulls the rug right out from under you forcing you to sell your home etc.

The main keyword is overnight.
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? seochamp39 6/10/12 4:35 PM
Exactly, that's what the "Penguin supporting retards" don't understand.

The Government taxes you. You have no control over that, but what about when the Government taxes you 50% more overnight?

What about if your job says... oops... no more free benefits, now you must pay $300/month for insurance.

Or what if the "free discounts" that you get at the food store were suddenly gone? What if that "free water" you drink cost money?

What Google did was wrong, dirty, and low down. It's going to cost them in a big way, and there's plenty of us making sure of it.
Parkin 6/10/12 4:56 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? zihara 6/10/12 4:58 PM
Is that why I'm seeing such an increase in traffic from Bing?
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Realmaverick 6/10/12 5:01 PM
So basically Google can do whatever it pleases and not have any regard whatsoever for the webmasters that put Google in the positon they in? If it wasn't for us, creating the content, Google wouldn't have even had a reason to exist. They break their own rules, they have Matt Cutts preach guidelines to us, that they then change and it was the earlier advice, that caused many of the problems we're seeing now.

Matt Cutts tells us, competitors cannot harm us, so we ignore the sabotage attempts and suddenly along comes Penguin and BOOM. People lose their livelihoods, through no fault of their own. Through Googles pig ignorance.

It's a big, fat, disgusting mess as far as I'm concerned. 
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? seochamp39 6/10/12 5:05 PM
Your water is free, but now it costs $10,000/month.
That's how much revenue Google has cost me.

Does that sound fun to you buddy?

I'm not a spammer. I hand wrote all my content.

I used blog networks to distribute content because IT WORKED.

Maybe Google's should've fixed their pathetic algorithm years ago,
or "gradually", instead of killing 1,000,000 websites overnight.

Seems that would make more sense from a business standpoint,
although it's clear Google now only cares about profits, not customers.

Remember that SEOs BUILT THEIR BRAND. We MADE Google.

WE are the ones that referred them to all our friends and family for a DECADE.

Now that's all over.  I HATE Google and will do anything in my power to get
users to switch to Bing immediately. Usually I just show them 10+ hacked
results currently on Google and they understand why I feel this way.

In an attempt to "defend against manipulation", Google has destroyed the
very thing that made them great - --- The Search Engine.

Their core product has now been destroyed, and it's all down from here.

Bing will raise, Google will fall. Just as any empire has throughout history.
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? seo101 6/10/12 5:06 PM
" So basically Google can do whatever it pleases and not have any regard whatsoever for the webmasters that put Google in the positon they in?"

Of course they can. Its their website; its their business; they can rank website however they like.

You can do whatever you like (within the law) on your website, why do you think that Google can't do the same?
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? seochamp39 6/10/12 5:08 PM
Oh I dunno, maybe because most successful businesses have MORALS?

That's how Google grew so big, having good MORALS, and a
"do no evil" mantra, which is obviously bullshit.

NO MORALS = NO LONG LASTING BUSINESS.

Take a business class... or 3... please.
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Panda_Effects 6/10/12 5:08 PM
Watch Out, Google: Bing Nabs 30% of Search Market [STUDY]


Still quite aways to go but getting strong it appears.
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Realmaverick 6/10/12 5:09 PM
Because Google has a monopoly on the web, I do not.

Because Google's decisions, effect millions of other peoples lives, mine do not.

Google have a responsibility and both Panda and Penguin were reckless updates.




Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Realmaverick 6/10/12 5:13 PM
The fact Penguin is open to abuse, is what makes it so wrong.

This update makes evil thrive, just look at all the negative SEO companies popping up. It's wrong.

Google should be smarter than this, Google know this is happening and they don't appear to care. We're just pawns.

This update made the world a worse place.
Parkin 6/10/12 5:15 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Panda_Effects 6/10/12 5:16 PM
So seo101, it would be ok with you if the government raised your taxes by 50% or for your home or for gas etc. etc. etc. overnight?  You would find no issues with that whatsoever?  You would not mind losing your home overnight and be thrown out onto the street?
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? seo101 6/10/12 5:18 PM
>Because Google has a monopoly on the web, I do not.

A 66% market share is NOT a monopoly


>Because Google's decisions, effect millions of other peoples lives, mine do not.

It only affected those who are silly enough to have a business based on getting a free traffic in a free search engine. For every site that rankings went down (and lost traffic) another went up (and gained traffic)!!

>Google have a responsibility and both Panda and Penguin were reckless updates.

Which the searchers loved and voted with their feet. Google is providing teh kinds of search results that searchers want, NOT what whinging webmasters want.

How do you think Google should actually be regulated. Do you think the law should be that they can not change the rankings in their search engine? duh? Do you think they should be regulated so they sent you a certain amount of traffic? duh?

No amount of whinging by you is going to change any of this.

Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? seo101 6/10/12 5:19 PM
" This update makes evil thrive, just look at all the negative SEO companies popping up. It's wrong."

Can you actually show us one case of where negative SEO has actually worked and the drop in traffic/rankings could NOT be explained by another reaons. I have not yet seen one convincing eg of negative SEO actually working. Every example I have seen could have been explained by other factors.
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Panda_Effects 6/10/12 5:22 PM
"A 66% market share is NOT a monopoly"

Facts are interesting depending how they are used.  For international, believe it is around 90%.

But even 66% is a big enough of a monopoly to do much damage to many.  Combine Google with the big brand names like Amazon and eBay etc. and that makes an even bigger combined monopoly.
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Realmaverick 6/10/12 5:24 PM
Are you for real? Seriously? Or are you just trolling the Google forums for your amusement?

Putting examples aside, because I frankly can't be arsed with you finding "other reasons". Logically, it's impossible for negative SEO to NOT exist, under Penguin. Impossible. 100% impossible. Simple. FACT!
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Realmaverick 6/10/12 5:26 PM
And finally, does your same framework apply to SEO's? Who build their business model on a "free search engine"?

So if tomorrow, Google decides their is no more organic search, it's now purely Adwords, would you call all the SEO's idiots, for basing their business model on a free search engine?
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Grandmaster Flash 6/10/12 5:36 PM
You all win, I'm now going to dispense search engine traffic equally across all sites. You'll allotment for today is 1 visitor.
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Panda_Effects 6/10/12 5:38 PM
Google's Monopoly and Internet Freedom

When one company controls nearly 82% of the global search market and 98% of the mobile search market, it's time for serious changes.

Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Panda_Effects 6/10/12 5:39 PM
And discussion about it.

http://www.webmasterworld.com/goog/4463059.htm 
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Realmaverick 6/10/12 5:42 PM
Yep, because that's what we're asking isn't it.

What I'm asking for, is a little common sense.

Don't make one of the biggest changes to the algorithm in a decade, so open to abuse.

Links should either count or not. If Google believes it to be manipulative, dont count it, simple.
Parkin 6/10/12 5:44 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Panda_Effects 6/10/12 5:45 PM
The Modern Day Monopoly?

"
Surprisingly, even Eric Schmidt, the company’s CEO, practically confirmed that Google is a monopoly by today’s standards. In a testimony before the U.S. Senate, Schmidt was asked, “But you do recognize that in the words that are used and antitrust kind of oversight, your market share constitutes monopoly, dominant—special power dominant for a monopoly firm. You recognize you’re in that area?” To respond, Schmidt said, "I would agree, sir, that we’re in that area… I’m not a lawyer, but my understanding of monopoly findings is this is a judicial process." In other words, Schmidt agreed that Google has the kind of dominant market share to be considered a monopoly. But, as there is not legal ruling actually stating that Google is a monopoly, it is not considered one in our world today.
"


Combine Google with the big brand names is an much bigger monopoly.


Parkin 6/10/12 5:55 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Panda_Effects 6/10/12 5:57 PM
Ok Parkin,

Think you mean this one.

https://productforums.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!category-topic/webmasters/chit-chat/YV-_2iS4VDw
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Panda_Effects 6/10/12 6:00 PM
GOOGLE IS NOT ABOVE THE LAW

Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? fathom 6/10/12 6:04 PM

On Sunday, June 10, 2012 7:49:06 PM UTC-3, Tehk wrote:
Fathom, the traffic wasn't "free" as you put it. Because free indicates there was no cost. Many of those who were receiving this apparent "free" traffic, had actually invested a lot of time and money, in to creating quality content, which generated the traffic. 

I'm getting sick and tired of hearing apparently smart people, harp on about how dumb it was to build you business model around Google. Well it worked for many many years and it is continuing to work for a lot of people. 

Some people truly deserved the slap they've received, others made silly mistakes and some don't have a clue why their lives have been turned upside down.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least, if Panda and Penguin don't result in a lot of suicide attempts. When mortgage repayments cannot be met, bills can't be paid and life just gets too hard to bear.
 
I missed this while flying up to Canada.
 
I'm sure if you invested time & money into making something great you would not need to pay for some cost effective hack, lame excuse from content (spun) and other sorted ways to webspam.
 
Making great things isn't a free ride either... they just have staying power. 
 


Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Panda_Effects 6/10/12 6:05 PM
Googolopoly: Google’s Services Are Free But Beyond Affordability For Customers

"Google is a dangerous monopoly. More than Microsoft ever was"

http://www.dazeinfo.com/2012/04/29/googolopoly-googles-services-beyond-affordability/ 
Parkin 6/10/12 6:11 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Panda_Effects 6/10/12 6:35 PM
Google, Dr. Evil? 


 
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? KevinStrickland 6/10/12 7:03 PM
im like four days away from suicide ....maybe ill put a matt cutts shirt on with a penguin on it
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? naplesfl 6/10/12 9:25 PM
Kevin, serious or not, please take a deep breath before doing anything irreversible. A few I know in the real estate industry aren't around because of the stress caused in the sudden drop (not many drops in Florida unless one climes a building). Some actually succeeded and some tried and got very sick. Its no fun messing up. Its better if you work through it, so keep your chin up fella and any change is just like a holiday. Life and all its twists and turns is what we have and until that day comes when life is no longer with us, we just keep on keeping on.
Shannon... 6/10/12 9:45 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Shannon... 6/10/12 9:52 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Shannon... 6/10/12 9:53 PM

Naplesfl 

I've noticed for best answers in this discussion, there is a green bar to the right of the comment.  Also that when you scroll the arrow over the green bar, it says 'who' said it was best. 

I see that you have given one.  How is that done?  Just wondering.

Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Realmaverick 6/11/12 6:18 AM
1. This thread is about Penguin, that has nothing to do with content, spun or whatever else.
2. I have not been hit by it.

Please stay on topic, creating fictitious frameworks to base your argument on, in an attempt to win a debate is a little worrying.
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Panda_Effects 6/11/12 8:17 AM
Shannon12 how do you know that the OP marked this thread as answered?  From what I have seen those who click the up carat do that and seems like it is the top contributors here who that that most as likely that gives them more "power" in the groups. Or they want to help stifle any conversation.  But possible the OP did just is not obvious to me he did.
Shannon... 6/11/12 9:21 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Shannon... 6/11/12 9:23 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Shannon... 6/11/12 9:24 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Shannon... 6/11/12 9:24 AM
I had just noticed at the top of this discussion 3 bars on the right.  First is pale green, with answered next to a comment by naplesfl. Then below that is a green bar next to a comment by StevieD_Web, and placing my arrow it comes up marked best answer by Lysis.  Then the third is marked is a comment by Panda_Effect marked best answer by naplesfl.
 

I was just wondering about that. Usuallly I only see 1 answer. Hope I explained this ok.

Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Panda_Effects 6/11/12 9:29 AM
Shannon12, thanks so much for explaining more as know I see what you mean.  And when hovering over the green vertical bar now see who marked it.
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Grandmaster Flash 6/11/12 10:09 AM
naplesfl
"Kevin, serious or not, please take a deep breath before doing anything irreversible...Its no fun messing up. Its better if you work through it, so keep your chin up fella and any change is just like a holiday. Life and all its twists and turns is what we have and until that day comes when life is no longer with us, we just keep on keeping on."
I don't really care for your approach or attitude, but I appreciate this thoughtful comment.

Real estate sites are tough because the content is so thoroughly syndicated and most third party real estate website products suck (some are still built in frames). Even original text isn't enough of a quality signal to differentiate one from another.  If I were to tackle the local real estate market, I'd start with taking amazing photos of the best properties on the broker tour, perhaps even a video tour if the listing agent would allow it. I'd then make sure I have a very visible presence on social media as a local expert.

Kevin, you're playing in spam filled waters where success is difficult to sustain long term because quality signals for the algo don't come easily or naturally. If you start over or continue with your current site, think about building a very regular repeat visitor base which will help you weather the storm rankings wise. Part of building repeat visits is creating a unique identifiable brand that will always return your site #1. Spend your effort building the brand, not keyword rankings. Once the brand is well established, the rankings will come, there are no east shortcuts.


Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? KevinStrickland 6/11/12 10:55 AM
Angry  penguin   thanks for taking the time out to write to me i feel a little better but damn dude! OOUCH!! it hurts so bad to it all go down the drain i cant even believe this sh**.. im really going to be homeless soon (not kidding) i found a link 163 links im going to create a  reconsideration request.
so many variable dont know where to start... and coming this forum for answers you going to need a bottle of advil

Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Grandmaster Flash 6/11/12 11:02 AM
"and coming this forum for answers you going to need a bottle of advil"
agreed! whether asking questions or providing answers:)

I had a site hit by Panda so I have first hand knowledge. Objective diagnosis on our side, we deserved it. Perhaps the best thing to ever happen to me professionally because it required us to dig deep and understand our pain points which to a large degree was user dis-satisfaction and lack of direct branded traffic.





Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? luzie 6/11/12 11:43 AM
Gonna save this for the records in case there should a need be felt in the future to delete the initial question.

By user Naplesfl:

Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin?

-luzie-



YCPD 6/11/12 12:48 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? YCPD 6/11/12 1:02 PM
meLevel 3 (YCPD change)
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12:48 PM (1 minute ago)
Panda E:

Thank you for saying in this thread what few people have the courage to say: Google goofed. Big time. And they are so big, that there is absolutely no way to reach them. There appears to be no way to get them to hear.

This forum is all about blame the site owner. It's not a help forum, it's a damn the victim forum. It's time for the webmaster-bashing to stop and to have an open conversation about how Penguin is unfairly destroying lives and ruining people's life work. Why are people in this forum so unwilling to even consider objective data like I have that shows the Penguin algo could be flawed and some innocent sites are victims?

I think the question about suicide is absolutely on the mark, and as a mental health expert with a speciality in crisis and trauma, I can guarantee you that there are people thinking about it after having their life's work ruined in a single moment on April 24. The comments people are making about having their business destroyed without warning in a single moment, describe exactly what happened.

The whole thing is just so amazingly unfair. My site youthchg.com has been taking out sites that stole our content but faster than we can get them removed, they reappear under slightly different URLs and feature our content and send us crappy links because the stolen content had links in it. Sites I have gotten removed under DMCA are back and ranking far higher than my site which is now lost in Google search oblivion. Some people in this forum blame me for it but I just don't understand why the victim is to blame, and the thief site elevated in the rankings while my site is nearly invisible for the words I wrote. Yes, my site isn't perfect but I also never did anything to deserve near-banishment-- but rather than help me fix what I can control, most contributors here would rather just trash me when I am already about as low as a person can be.

I have followed your comments a lot-- not just about my site but others as well. Please keep speaking out here. Someone has to take a leadership role here and not just join in the pile on the victims.
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? KevinStrickland 6/11/12 1:15 PM
Angry peguin where would you start if your hompage was now where to be found in the serps but subpages are hoovering page 6,7 for keywords..


Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Grandmaster Flash 6/11/12 1:17 PM
YCPD: I'm sympathetic to your cause, really. Your site needs more than what this forum can provide however, my best advice would be to hire a professional. This may not be what you want to hear, I ask in advance you don't attack me for saying it.

I also don't appreciate the insults to regular members of the forum who truly do spend time here to help people on a pro-bono basis. There are plenty here who use this platform for their own agenda, take what you read with a grain of salt.





Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Panda_Effects 6/11/12 1:41 PM
Since Negative SEO was mentioned

Negative SEO


Saw the above link from this google group post
Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Panda_Effects 6/11/12 1:46 PM
"don't appreciate the insults to regular members of the forum who truly do spend time here to help people on a pro-bono basis"

BUT first have to be "attacked" by some of them and then they can become helpful.  So versus "slamming" others, maybe they should work on their communication skills such as just simply stating in their opinion what needs to be fixed.  Can do that very directly without "knocking" others.

To be objective have to see both sides of any situation but have seen way too much insulting by top contributors (although some better know for the most part) against people who really do not know what is wrong.  So it is natural for people to "fight" back.  Sometimes what goes around comes back around.

Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? Panda_Effects 6/11/12 1:56 PM
Lenny Kravitz - What Goes Around Comes Around

Re: Have there been any related suicides to Google Penguin? YCPD 6/11/12 2:06 PM
Yes, this forum is a mixed bag of people who offer amazing help without insults, and others who smash and dash. I am not saying everyone who works hard to contribute in this forum engages in these problem behaviors but enough so that it makes me cringe when I see people asking for help and getting hassled.

It is hard to hear negative feedback about one's site. That's not what I'm talking about. I was referring to the unprofessional, gratuitously nasty comments from a portion of the contributors. If that's not you, then you have no reason to be offended. It was just my opinion anyway.

I don't attack people. I politely point out what I see so I appreciate your suggestion of getting a professional to do clean-up, and that is a possibility but with sales off 90%, it's not an option I am really wanting to do. I know I may have to though.
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