Categories: Crawling, indexing & ranking :

Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else

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Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else Bowgen 10/28/12 2:23 PM
I have an EMD and have been clearly penalised for that. I am now getting feedback from my webmaster that I should change it, as it is the quickest and cheapest way to get my business back on track. 

Our EMD as a registered business and it is Trademarked.


Could we get some solid answers to this question as I am sure many on this forum would love to know the answer. 

Maybe someone from Google Head Office could enlighten us what to do. We are in limbo.

Appreciate your input.

Dave
Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else travler 10/28/12 2:31 PM
no, you don't have to change your EMD - google only removed any advantage previously gained from it.

For reasons why your site may not be ranking as highly  as before, either post your url  or see http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=34444 with its Matt Cutts video - he's from head office :-)
Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else Suzanneh 10/28/12 2:53 PM
There's absolutely no guarantee that changing domain names will get you back on track. Ditto what travler said.

Suzanne
Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else StevieD_Web 10/28/12 3:23 PM
Our EMD as a registered business and it is Trademarked.


you want to back up those claims.... provide the url.

I say that, not be nasty or mean spirited, but to help you with your claim.  Remember, as I have said repeatedly across many threads, the EMD algorithm was never designed to attack legitimate businesses:



Springfield Cardiology Clinic is named Springfield Cardiology Clinic (SCC for short)

There is a website named springfieldcardiologyClinic., there is a business licence, a yellowpage listing, EIN number, tax resale or exempt license, Secretary of State registration, D&B listing, hospital registration, state medical board registration, local chamber of commerce, better business bureau etc 

Basically SCC can prove who they are to Google without an ounce of effort.




Bottom line, a legit business that happens to have an EMD is not going to be penalized or loose the value of their domain matching the query..... so back up your claim.  Let us examine it.  And if you are correct then one of the TCs will escalate the findings for Google to evaluate and potentially modify their algorithm.






Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else mundabit 10/28/12 3:41 PM
Hi Bowgen

You asked a similar question before:

http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!search/Bowgen/webmasters/HMaTKUbCMJg/FUw22HGX7E4J

Is this still about the same domain other posts related to, the mortgage site. If so, see there have been changes in other domains but not so much in the main one. Minor examples, Think it was Richard made a valuable point about page speed, needs working on, as does duplication.These are all indexed, maybe more:

broker-directory/352-Elders-Home-Loans-Alice-Springs/start/60

/broker-directory/352-Elders-Home-Loans-Alice-Springs/start/40

/broker-directory/352-Elders-Home-Loans-Alice-Springs

Lots you can do to improve technically and in a technical SEO sense but you might want to take a step back. May not be the domain name that needs changing but the whole business model e.g.

If I search for - contact elders home loans - Google take me straight to:


Sorting out linking issues and banging in extra related content may help, for a while but medium term, there is no future for this business model. Not trying to be cruel, just don't like seeing someone worry themselves over the wrong question. Neither will the sort of content that used to help work now, the /home-owners/home-loans/147-having-financial-troubles type. Nothing that couldn't be found on 10000 pages, just space filling.

If you want to make money from mortgages and the web, you need to come up with much much more, not a new domain name. The days of intermediary sites using Google in the sense this site represents are going away.
Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else Bowgen 10/28/12 5:27 PM
Your right it is the mortgage site but things change in a few weeks. I am sure many people are worried about the EMD issue for there own businesses and that's why I raised it as a general question. I didnt include my URL for that reason.

Very, very good feedback thankyou MUNDABIT, for our site. Like I mentioned prior I am willing to except and suggestions and put them into practice (you guys are the experts in these fields).



Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else Bowgen 10/28/12 5:39 PM
Wow Stevie D, are you serious. Thankyou! I never have hear of this.

Yes, www(dot)mortgagebroker(dot)com(dot)au is very much a legitimate business.

1) Registered NSW (Australia) business name
2) Australia wide Registered Trademark for the name, slogan, Owl image
3) White pages listing in NSW

We know we can improve the site (doesnt everyones site need refining), and have been doing what we can with our limited knowledge. 

We will do anything to resurrect our micro business.

StevieD, believe me when I say this "Thankyou!", also to your counterparts here helping us.

Dave and Pep
Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else Bowgen 10/28/12 7:20 PM
Little question Mundabit,

How do I find duplicated business listings on our site?
Are they easy enough to remove?

Thanks mate!

Dave
Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else mundabit 10/28/12 7:39 PM
A couple of suggestions:

A Google search on - site:yourdomain.com.au - Some show in main listings but you can also go the last page of results and select the option to see other/similar listings.

Download and install:


Run your site through and this should pick up a good proportion.

In both cases, may not be 100% perfect but you should be able to see the patterns you need to know.

In a sense, that's the easy bit. Rectifying the issues can depend on the CMS, although with your site on an apache server, the htaccess file can often help. In general you will want to be redirecting URLs, try to avoid the robots.txt route, particularly for anything indexed.

One option would be to work out what needs doing yourself, then go back to psicom, who should have eliminated the possibility of this type of error when setting up the site. On that basis, they may do the work for nothing. If they happen to learn more about the CMS they use along the way, perhaps you could charge them:)
Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else Bowgen 10/28/12 7:50 PM
Your a champ, thankyou Mundabit!

I wouldn't expect him not to charge, he has put in more than enough hours free getting the site ready. (this is a redesign site that launched 2 months ago). Great bloke to deal with.

Many thanks again for your time again.

Dave




Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else Bowgen 10/29/12 2:26 AM
G'day Stevie,

How would you like me to proceed regarding this information?

What is a TC?

Thanks again for everything!

Dave
Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else StevieD_Web 10/29/12 3:50 PM
TC = Top Contributors

Don't worry about TC seeing this thread.... the gentleman that market my answer as correct is JohnMu  (aka a Googler, aka a Google employee)


So if the EMD was being heavy handed or caught a false negative, Google knows...

That said, in the mean time I would be evaluating other sources of problems with regard to your site's decline
Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else Bowgen 10/29/12 4:11 PM
So StevieD, I dont want to put you on the spot or be a smart alec, but how do you know that this comment you made earlier is correct.

"Bottom line, a legit business that happens to have an EMD is not going to be penalized or loose the value of their domain matching the query..... so back up your claim.  Let us examine it.  And if you are correct then one of the TCs will escalate the findings for Google to evaluate and potentially modify their algorithm."

You mentioned you would examine it if I could back it up.

Please mate, dont drop me like this. 

We are working frantically to fix alot of things that we can. If there is a chance that Google has dealt harshly with us without realising we are a genuine business (unfortunately they dont examine each site on it's own merits manually) with everything possible to back it up, then lets go for it!

Dave
Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else mundabit 10/29/12 5:09 PM
how do you know that this comment you made earlier is correct

Because the information was confirmed by one of the most knowledgeable members of Google's staff.

Maybe not a bad cue to think if there are other good quality place where citations for your business could appear, they can help in other ways as well. As StevieD_Web mentioned, still not a reason to neglect other aspects. I'm sure what you have posted will have been taken note of, ideal time to focus on improving the site.
Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else StevieD_Web 10/29/12 7:16 PM
>So StevieD, I dont want to put you on the spot or be a smart alec, but how do you know that this comment you made earlier is correct


1 part logic
1 part guess
1 part confirmation


Logic.... it really doesn't take much effort.

In my industry there are a number of business  (real, storefront, been around for a couple decades, businesses) that have pretty bland names  X store, X shop.

My mother's hairdresser is named "Hair Salon"

These people lack imagination.   There is no effort to "brand" the business. Their business name says everything you need to know about them.... 

And their domains match their business name.  The business name can be confirmed through multiple sources.


So why would Google penalize/demote/harm somebody not very creative in naming their business?

(and while we are at it, Ford, Oldsmobile, Mercedes-Benz, and a few 1000 other companies weren't much better at naming their businesses) 


That is the logic part.



The guess is not much harder.

What is the intent of this algorithm?  My guess is that is to remove/demote/penalize sites that are trying to match for a highly competitive term without being the term.

TheCheapestUsedCarsinPeoria .com is most likely not the real business name, at least not the one that is one the municipal business license and tax resale number.

So it is pretty obvious that the domain name was chosen to be creatively deceitful.

Another great crap site would be CheapAppleIpodsForSale.com or HowToLooseWeightReallyFast.com


Conclusion?

The first 100 posters on this forum were obvious crap sites trying to be something they are not, trying to game the system to gain traffic for which they do not deserve.





Yes, in a manner of speaking your domain name is EMDish.  So is HairSalon.  So is Springfield-Cardiology-Clinic.

The names are what you do.  No attempt to brand.  But is also a business name.  If Google can verify the matching of your business and domain names then all is good on this front.



Like I have previously said.... start checking OTHER issues.




Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else mundabit 10/29/12 8:10 PM
As basic as it is, odd there's no address on the mortgage site but you have the address on the web design site. Maybe I missed it but should be evident, part of trust for everyone, not only Google.

On the webdesign, wouldn't pursue the adobe kuler idea, can lead to this:

Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else StevieD_Web 10/29/12 8:29 PM
Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else Bowgen 10/29/12 9:05 PM
Thanks guys for your input.

Regarding the webdesign and mortgage site address. Remember MB is a national directory whilst the other is a basic startup local design business. Thanks for the heads up on the 'ruler' as well. 

Stevie, thanks mate for that explanation. You blokes (and girls) deserve more recognition.

We will continue to work on our site and will spend hours each day reading these forums and try to pick up what else we can do.

Like it has been mentioned, maybe we need to look at the whole model again and go down a different road. Open to any suggestions by the way. ha ha (taken enough of your time already).

Take care!

Dave and Pep
Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else Bowgen 11/8/12 11:24 PM
Honestly, can anyone please let us know how long it takes for Google to see the changes we have made. 

We have worked tirelessly for weeks and none of our work appears in any search results. I ran a search site:mort.....com.au and it is the same old stuff. No changes to what we have done appear.

Please people, what am I doing wrong? 

This is not healthy for anyone believe me. 

Thankyou!

Dave
Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else StevieD_Web 11/8/12 11:50 PM
minutes, hours or maybe a couple days.....


not that any of that matters because most of the algorithm issues are believed to have a time out penalty attached to the algorithm thus any change you make will take the time to discover plus the 30, 45, 60 or 90 day time out penalty.  Beyond what I just described, some of the black and white animals (panda/penguin) are believed to have a timeout attached to recovery from them as well.


Basically it is time to be patient.
Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else Bowgen 11/11/12 4:26 PM
Thanks StevieD,

Mate, appreciate your tactfulness. It is the first I have heard about a penalty though. 

Oh well, will continue working hard on our site.

Dave
Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else Jason Hulme 11/18/12 9:51 PM
Hi Dave, has there been any change for you in the last week? Have been watching this thread with interest as I have a client who may have also been hit with the EMD algo update. Are you just waiting out a possible 30, 45, 60 or 90 day time out penalty now?

I can see you are not in the first 2 pages of Google results. Interesting to note: http://www.mortgagebrokersaustralia.com.au still ranks well. It's even more of an EMD than your domain and much longer. When I do I whois on them (http://whois.domaintools.com/mortgagebrokersaustralia.com.au) the registrant is "Mortgage Brokers Australia Pty Ltd" for you its "DOMAIN MORTGAGE GROUP PTY LTD" not "Mortgage Broker Pty Ltd" (or something similar)

If Google is trying to verify brand against domain name whois data would be the most reliable way to do this. I wonder if updating your whois information to reflect the matching business name you own would help?
Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else Bowgen 11/18/12 11:44 PM
G'day Jason,

Thanks mate for your interest in this thread. 

Been working very hard on articles and many other things that has been picked up via the threads. It has been good in that respect, it has made up look hard and work hard on our business. We have just in the process of submitting a new sitemap today i think it was.

Good pick up on the business name too, worth a try. We have a registered TM for MB and it is part of D.....M.....G.... PTY LTD, but it does stand alone as a New South Wales business name too. Might look into that.

Jason, are you in AU? What info have you come up with?? would like to know.

Thanks again
'
Dave
Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else Jason Hulme 11/19/12 3:06 PM
hi Dave,

Yes, am in Melbourne. This is me: https://plus.google.com/u/0/103389549434504225679/about My office number is listed, give me a call if you want to compare notes.

Here is the thread about my clients site. In his case the domain name did not match his brand. We are now working on changing domain names to match the brand:



Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else Bowgen 12/6/12 7:14 PM
Thanks!
We made alot of changes and submitted a reconsideration request last week (didnt rush into it, made the relevant changes properly, took our time), and today heard from Google and they say that no 'No manual spam actions found'.
 
What else can i do now? 
 
Dave 
 
 
Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else StevieD_Web 12/6/12 8:43 PM
>and they say that no 'No manual spam actions found'.

That means any issue you may be having with your site is algorithmic  OR your site is ranking as well as it possibly can rank. 
Re: Simple question: WHY should I change my EMD to something else Bowgen 12/6/12 9:43 PM
So Stevie,

Can you please tell me about this 30, 60, 90 or 120 penalty. I haven't heard it applies to us, but we wouldn't know would we. How does it apply and why??


Looks like i may have to change the domain. What do you think?

We are getting tired from all this. No money, raising a family, all our time is trying to make this site work somehow. 

I know that it is no bodies else's problem but mine.



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