Categories: Chit-chat :

Bad SEO now going to court against company

Showing 1-85 of 85 messages
Bad SEO now going to court against company Suzanne Thorpe 1/26/13 7:53 AM
I've read the FAQs and searched the help center. 
 
Hi Guys
 
I know form other posts there are some out there that think if you hired a company to do SEO and it went bad its tough luck and no one else to blame but yourself. The fact is though, when you don't know anything about the subject and read up on it, if you hear the right stuff coming from the potential compamy and they rank highly in google, you get caught out. That happens alot and it happened to us.
 
We spent £4800 with a company and after 10 months we pulled the plug with us still owing them £1200. Despite the google penalty and very poor service and alround naff job, they still want paying the rest of their money. They issue a court claim and we have counter claimed for our money back. The site got hacked and now is completely offline so not there anymore.
 
Now before you say its all our fault, they told us they were white hat, they told us they were trusted and had big name clients that were verifiable, they were number one at the time for the term SEO. So why should we not trust these guys at their word. The performance seemed to speak for itself.
 
What I need now is basically a short review of the links etc that I can submit in court to demonstrate how they have basically stolen my money, by promising a service then doing the oposite of what they were supposed to do.
 
The opportunity is there for a bad company to be exposed and make them pay. I want to keep the company name hidden to ensure an impartial response.
 
I don't know much about this subject which is why we outsourced it and why we now need somebody to assist in showing us what is wrong.
 
Please, all I'm after is just a few bullet points of what is wrong with the links to our site www.funkybedroom.co.uk
 
Thanks
Jason

Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company travler 1/26/13 8:26 AM
You might want to register at https://www.majesticseo.com/reports/site-explorer/referring-domains?folder=&q=funkybedroom.co.uk&oq=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.funkybedroom.co.uk%2F&IndexDataSource=H 

see the links returned here - they are multiples to directory/ links sites. There are other sites as well.


See also Links Schemes for Googles' take  on this  http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=66356
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Suzanneh 1/26/13 9:00 AM
Another thing you might want to do is present Google's Guidelines to the Court and show how the SEO company strayed from the guidelines?

http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=35769

And particularly:

http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=66356

Granted, a judge might ask "Well, why didn't YOU read this first?"  You'd have to be prepared to answer this.

Suzanne
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company travler 1/26/13 9:07 AM
Good point, Suzanne.

Also, Jason, did you ever get an unnatural warning email/ notice in Webmaster tools?
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company mundabit 1/26/13 9:47 AM
Hi Suzanne

Sorry to hear about your problem. Firstly, I assume you know your site is in effect down and largely deindexed.

You are correct that an SEO company is as liable for negligence/loss of business as anyone else. They are simply a business to business service provider. However, proving a case in a field like this is problematic. What seems understandable to us may not be to a judge, in a case of this type, they would normally rely on expert input.

Trying to get through a case by presenting lists of links, guidelines etc. is unlikely to work out well. The entire scenario needs to be put into context, explained and presented in a manner the court prefers.

May not be the case but I'm assuming the matter is currently at small claims level. One advantage is that proceedings are less formal but as you will probably know, the amount and type of claim are limited, as is expert input, in terms of time and cost. Conceivable the court will refuse to hear if the case is too complex, bump up a level but in general they will.

I can't help you with that directly, other than a couple of pieces of advice:

Given that proceedings are under way, you should be quite careful what you post on the web, including in a public forum such as this. Do not take that the wrong way, plenty of honest, clever people here who will try to assist but you need to avoid anything contentious.

If you want to get in touch, I will see that contact details are forwarded for an organisation in the UK, who should try to help. No guarantee but they are of the quango type, will not charge for initial support and specialise in this type of issue. They may also suggest ways the court route can be avoided, which always makes sense.

Should you feel that would help, forward an email address to a UK community information address - surreydevelopment(at)btinternet.com
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company StevieD_Web 1/26/13 6:04 PM
mundabit has provided some great information....

two additional points...


>What I need now is basically a short review of the links etc that I can submit in court to demonstrate how they have basically stolen my money, by promising a service then doing the oposite of what they were supposed to do.

a review such that you requested becomes a question of opinion.  Your claims of improper quality is one such opinion.  Their claim of fulfillment with the contract is another. 

An outside review could backfire in that it could help support their claims of fulfillment with the contract IF THE CONTACT DOES NOT CLEARLY STATE what is quality or not.

Quality is highly subjective and if you pound away too hard on the issue of quality then the quality level of your prior links would come into question as they could be causative to your decline rather than the work of the most-current seo..


Oh, and the other point?  In most of these instances of contract law with poorly defined parameters (at least on my side of the pond), fulfillment of quantity is usually sufficient to win the case for non-payment of services rendered.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company mundabit 1/26/13 9:47 PM
Fulfilment of contract may be an issue but not always the only one. Judging that can involve points mentioned below but hypothetical anyway. Few cases are worth taking to trial, normally better to settle before then.

Let's assume however you have a position where an SEO company is claiming for payment and the defendant decides to counter claim on wider grounds, not the same as denying the contract.

An example is where a business damaged by an SEO company's actions pursues compensation for loss. There can be variations but in principle negligence. The requirement under English law is to prove that the SEO company:

1. Owed a duty of care
2. Breached the duty of care
3. A causal connection existed between that breach and the damage claimed
4. It was foreseeable that the breach of duty would cause the damage

Point 1. is established and much of the rest comes down to cause and effect, along with applicable level of knowledge. Take an SEO company who claim to be industry leaders in their country, write lots of blog posts about search, updates, algorithms, have content on their website along the lines of:

"....having a links profile that appears natural has become more important.."

Yet their actions appear to be in a completely contrary direction. To the point where they get many client sites penalised, even their own. In each case, by traceable actions outside search engine guidelines they should understand. Part of their professional duty. In basic terms, they know the potential outcome, have inflicted damage before but carry on doing the same and taking the money.

Neither may they have carried out other tasks most qualified people would think logical as part of good SEO, or approached them in an equally poor way. Points 2. 3. 4. above are far from the same but can overlap and you will see where this is going.

Despite that, when the businesses they damage stop paying, they regularly issue proceedings. As a tactic and because of the one element in their favour. Most of their clients have limited knowledge (that's how they become clients) so if they do defend, or counter claim, will find putting a case together themselves very difficult, the other option prohibitively expensive.

A court has limited time and a judge can not be an expert in everything, may not have any knowledge of related technical aspects, their job is the law. Even in a much higher level claim, you will not get a judge to go through lists of links, debate their quality, or look at many other specific actions. Believe me, won't happen, I long ago abandoned such thoughts.

That is a critical reason for providing neutral but accurate and succinct technical guidance. I have seen similar cases where people have tried to manage themselves, their limited knowledge against those in the industry, not good.

Whether any of the above will apply to this case depends on much we can not and should not know on a public venue. Chances are this will simply be about fulfilment, more complex counter claims okay in their place but may be out of proportion here. They require significant spend and don't sit well with small claims. Whatever the exact situation, parts of the above may come into the equation and advice is a good thing. That's often what the bad guys are afraid of people getting:)
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Becky Sharpe 1/27/13 2:33 AM
Sorry things have gone badly for you, and hope you achieve some sort of resolution. 

Great advice from mundabit - he's well positioned to be offering guidance, almost certainly knows more about the area than anyone else here.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Suzanne Thorpe 1/27/13 6:06 AM
Thanks Mundabit
 
There is some really useful info there. I have deliberately not included the company name due to the issue of it going bad!
 
Although I have no specific knowledge of SEO, I am experienced in going to the small claims court for other issues, mainly property, so I understand what you say about expert knowledge and whether a judge might feel it is beyond the level of the small claims track.
 
I also have a document which was sent out to all their clients after the google updates early last year and following a large number of thier clients, including ourselves, which seems to me to be virtually an admission of bad practice. I only read through it recently as I didn't really have an incite into what its content really mean't before.
It was only last year when we decided to stop paying them that we discovered the webmaster notification of the google penalty which was the last straw.
 
The domain name is now worthless, as far as we can see and so if we go down the route of another website, we'll probably have to start again from scratch due to this.
Is it possible for us to recover the site name? it does have some value to us which we would like to retain.
 
I am happy to forward this document on if anybody is willing to give an opinion on it, Especially any google employees who might be interested.
 
As far as the judge is concerned in court, the small claims rules are based on "More likely than not" rather than "beyond reasonable doubt". Therefore, What I need to prove to the judge is that it is conceivable and "Likely" that what they did, both led to the google penalty and de-indexing and that they were responsible for the penalty and should have been able to avoid / foresee these things happening. I believe that as experts in their field they should have been and were negligent in applying the techniques they used knowing that they were against Google's terms and conditions.
 
Does that sound reasonable?
 
Thanks again for all the help and advice here.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Becky Sharpe 1/27/13 6:29 AM
No Google employee will pass comment on anything that is likely to go to Court. I'd wait for some feedback from mundabit if I was you and not forward anything to anyone else - it could be going to the wrong people.

I will certainly vouch for the integrity of mundabit who will be able to offer an objective opinion.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Robbo 1/27/13 7:03 AM
>>> I will certainly vouch for the integrity of mundabit who will be able to offer an objective opinion.

For what it's worth, I too would add my voice to that --- mundabit has a lot of direct experience in this sort of thing and great expertise.


Robbo
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company mundabit 1/27/13 7:49 AM
Is it possible for us to recover the site name?

Possible yes but will need a fair amount of work, with no guarantee at the end of that. There are older complications which might have been able to be left in normal circumstances but you will now need to tackle, along with the more recent problems. Could also be a few issues with the other domain that was being used with the similar name.

In both cases, you may do no better than getting more or less back to scratch anyway. Is using the sleeptight...... domain not feasible, often better to have all effort in one place anyway. You could then put up pleasant, noindexed pages for the others, with a link for people to follow, or a slow refresh, so they would automatically go to the live domain.

That way you wouldn't lose much direct traffic, from ads, people who know. The decision then comes down to how much value the former main domain holds in other ways. There isn't always a 100% right decision. From a first look, I might go with putting a new, all products site on the sleeptight domain but that is an ill informed guess, you know the overall situation.

Detailed thoughts on the legal situation would be just as poorly informed. Again, what you want to achieve matters. If for example you simply wanted the claim dropped, that might be possible without much effort, depends on their attitude and how much sense they have.

As helpfully mentioned, sharing too much needs care. The company you are in dispute with for example do monitor the web for any mention of them and from past experience, this forum.

By all means send safe contact details to the address mentioned above and I will see that is passed on, so you can at least get a more solid view.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Suzanne Thorpe 1/27/13 8:47 AM
Mundabit, Thank you again for your time to comment.
 
As you seem to know who it is that we are in dispute with, that speaks volumes, clearly they are building quite a name for themselves.
The funky domain is valuable as all our other interweb sales channels use this name so for commonality sake, it is good to have that brand recognition continue over the different channels. The other domain is also a trade site rather than a retail site. Our business is such that we would like to keep a clear differential between the two. Sleeptight has never and likely never will be promoted, i.e. the people that find that site will be looking for a niche wholesaler rather than for making a retail purchase.
 
In order to recover the name would it be a case of removing every back link, using the disavow tool I've read about. I have briefly looked into the undoing of the companies work and that appears to be the only method available to us at the moment. I don't want to move on that until after the case has been heard at court as it is, in part, the evidence against them.
 
Before they issued the court claim, we would have been unhappy but prepared to walk away having learn't a lesson, albeit, an expensive one. The sheer cheek of them to pursue this means if I've got to spend time on it then I'm going to make it worth my while. I know how to investigate and I know alot more about going to court and contract law etc the the subject matter. That though, is often what you need, as you said earlier, putting things into a context or language the judge will feel comfortable being able to make an informed decision. I've learn't alot already just by investigating the subject and the company. There are alot of unhappy campers out there, and I'm starting to get a feel for what they have done tactic wise. I'm pretty sure they are using the court claims to frighten people into paying up as they really are on shaky ground. Even their procedural errors are highlighting them as rookies at going to court.
 
I will send a copy of that document to the surreydevelopment(at)btinternet.com address and hope to hear from them soon.
 
Thanks again for your time here, it is invaluable to me.
 
Jason
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company BenP79 1/28/13 8:34 AM
If you look at this: http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!category-topic/webmasters/8Ccsruppmfo
particularly this line: 

"Low-quality directory or bookmark site links"

Now go here:
get the free account, export the result to a spreadsheet and search for "directory", of the 276 links, 136 are from sites with directory in the page title.





JHLeeds 1/28/13 9:23 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Lysis 1/28/13 9:42 AM
GTFO spammer. searchrocket.co.uk spams forums.

On Monday, January 28, 2013 12:23:47 PM UTC-5, JHLeeds wrote:
Hi Jason,

Sorry to hear of your bad experiences. I may be able to help you prove your case if necessary as we have some records of the historical rankings of your site for a number of the search terms you appear to have been targeting, such as childrens bedding and so on. Obviously, it'll be your word against theirs otherwise. If you get in touch, I'll send you what we have: james (at) searchrocket.co.uk.

Best,

James
JHLeeds 1/28/13 9:46 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Lysis 1/28/13 10:17 AM
Too late James from searchrocket.co.uk. I already caught you, spammer and quoted your spam.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company JHLeeds 1/28/13 10:55 AM
Lysis,

I was offering some practical, impartial help for him support his case. Both Jason and the company he's dealing with are within an hours drive from me. If that's not appreciated round here then you've made that perfectly clear.

I don't think picking random junk from the depths of peoples link profiles is in any way constructive or helpful to Jason. I'm sure you able to comprehend why. Feel free to post your domains and let everyone else have a go too, it's only fair!

Best regards,

James
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Lysis 1/28/13 11:10 AM
If you spam Google's own forum, how good can you possibly be? How many clients' sites did you get curb stomped from your spamming?
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company JHLeeds 1/28/13 11:15 AM
Lysis,

We rank just fine for what we need to, and so do our clients. They're very happy, and most of our business comes through recommendation.

I offered access to our historical ranking data which would have helped his case. How on earth is that spamming?

I still fail to see how you're helping the OP here. Perhaps you could explain.

Best regards,

James
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Lysis 1/28/13 11:41 AM
I'm helping the OP by calling out spammers who are trolling Google's forum looking to take advantage of people. The OP didn't ask your your services, so why did you create an account and try to peddle your "services?" Why would you create an account and then post in this particular thread with no other help other than "Hey, man, I can take your money and give you a list of info."  Why would you need to troll here without any contributions whatsoever except to try to get the OP to buy your product?

Solicit somewhere else. Go sell crazy somewhere else. We're all stocked up here.

But I like how you tried to be shady about it by posting and hoping the OP has email notifications on, and then you deleted it. Too bad. I caught you.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company JHLeeds 1/28/13 12:05 PM
Lysis,


On Monday, January 28, 2013 7:41:03 PM UTC, Lysis wrote:
I'm helping the OP by calling out spammers who are trolling Google's forum looking to take advantage of people.

I'm not trolling, I followed the link from Search Engine Roundtable. I rarely come here other than when a thread is referenced elsewhere.
 
The OP didn't ask your your services,

No, he asked for help and advice and I offered something which might help, for free. It's not a service, just something that'll no doubt be useful to him.
 
so why did you create an account and try to peddle your "services?"

What services? I offered help. I'm not selling anything!
 
Why would you create an account and then post in this particular thread with no other help other than "Hey, man, I can take your money and give you a list of info."

I *never* asked for money, and would not accept any for helping the OP out.
 
Why would you need to troll here without any contributions whatsoever except to try to get the OP to buy your product?

What product? There is no product! You can't buy data from our internal systems, it's proprietary.
 
Solicit somewhere else. Go sell crazy somewhere else. We're all stocked up here.

I'm not selling anything, I'm not soliciting, just offering help to someone who asked for it.
 
But I like how you tried to be shady about it by posting and hoping the OP has email notifications on, and then you deleted it. Too bad. I caught you.

Nope, having offered help in a legal dispute, I didn't want to leave a trail which could prejudice the proceedings. Once I found some alternate contact details, I deleted the post because it was redundant.

I don't see the point in wasting my time offering help when other people actively try to discourage it by ranting about imaginary demands for money and trying to portray my assistance as somehow predatory.

The OP is local to me and I don't like to see people screwed over and will help any way I can. We usually keep historical ranking data to ourselves but in this case I thought it could make a difference if I gave it to him.

Look, Lysis, I know the Internet is full of trolls and spammers, and I'm sure you see more than your fair share of them here, but please don't automatically assume everyone is out to commit fraud. That's just not helpful to the community.

I don't want to engage in an argument, it's not gonna help the OP, or me, or you. Have an Internet high five and let's both help in whatever way we can.

Best regards,

James
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company seo101 1/28/13 12:35 PM
JHLeeds - you tried to link drop your company here --> that makes you a spammer and trolling for business against the forum guidelines. You quite rightly opened yourself to ridicule.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Lysis 1/28/13 12:42 PM
And we're actually supposed to believe that he was going to just hand over data to the OP and ask for no money or solicit for any business.

Must be why he deleted his post shortly after posting it. I wonder how many other people he's tried to "help" by posting and deleting his post.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company JHLeeds 1/28/13 12:47 PM
No, I provided a means of contact by way of an email address, in the standard obfuscated blah (at) whatever.com format.

Who mentioned business or money? For goodness sake people!
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company seo101 1/28/13 12:50 PM
Confucius say ... when in hole, its often a good idea to stop digging
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company JHLeeds 1/28/13 12:53 PM
Lysis,

I'm already in touch with the (grateful) OP. I can see you're a regular contributor and are concerned with the integrity of the forums. That's enormously admirable, but you've got me very wrong here.

Like I said, I'm sure you're jaded by seeing so many trolls, spammers, scammers and other low-lifes here. I'm not one of them.

I've helped no other people by deleting posts, I gave a clear, sensible reason above for doing so, but you've decided not to accept it.

If I was some scummy drive-by spammer, why would I be making so much effort to explain my actions? I really do think you're doing a disservice to the forum here by jumping on me when I tried to help. You've misconstrued the whole thing.

Best regards,

James

PS: Internet high five still stands.




Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company JHLeeds 1/28/13 12:53 PM
On Monday, January 28, 2013 8:50:02 PM UTC, seo101 wrote:
Confucius say ... when in hole, its often a good idea to stop digging

Aimed at Lysis I assume ;-) 
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company seo101 1/28/13 1:06 PM
No, it was aimed at you.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company JHLeeds 1/28/13 1:18 PM
Thanks, but I've completed my hole recognition course and I'm 99% sure this isn't a hole, just a false positive on the old spammer alarm. 

OP seems like he has things under control though, so I'm not going to waste any more time here. Thanks for the interesting discussion, Lysis. You're obviously a valued member of the community so please do keep up the good work. (Also in case I'm risking another false positive, that's genuine and not some sort of feeble sarcasm attempt)

All the best! James


Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company StevieD_Web 1/28/13 3:29 PM
>but I've completed my hole recognition course and I'm 99% sure this isn't a hole

Good, bad, incorrect or otherwise, I just love the comment.

where is the hole recognition course offered?  Can I receive college credit or CEU's for the class?
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company JHLeeds 1/28/13 3:51 PM
It's available at your local community college. My diploma came with a free ladder, just in case you get it wrong.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Becky Sharpe 1/29/13 3:26 AM
Well I hope to goodness you have experience of this kind of issue in court (as mundabit has) or you could land OP with a very big bill. Better check on your professional liability before you go much further.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company JHLeeds 1/29/13 3:37 AM
Yes I have got experience of this kind of issue in court, but I'm not offering legal advice!
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Patrick Altoft 1/29/13 8:04 AM
Hi. I've dealt with dozens of penalty cases in the past year for sites large and small and would be happy to take a look at this for you at no charge. If you want to email me any info the address is patrick @ branded3.com
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company JHLeeds 1/29/13 8:11 AM
Are we going to ridicule Patrick for link dropping too?
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company StevieD_Web 1/29/13 8:14 AM
yep
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company StevieD_Web 1/29/13 8:14 AM
yo, Patrick....

bad form dropping unsolicited links into this forum
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Lysis 1/29/13 8:15 AM
WT......???? GTFO SPAMMER

branded3.com is another forum spammer. It's all freakin SEOs who want to "help." Go sell crazy somewhere else. We're all stocked up here.


On Tuesday, January 29, 2013 11:04:45 AM UTC-5, Patrick Altoft wrote:
Hi. I've dealt with dozens of penalty cases in the past year for sites large and small and would be happy to take a look at this for you at no charge. If you want to email me any info the address is patrick @ branded3.com
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Suzanne Thorpe 1/29/13 8:28 AM
Good Afternoon All and thank you all for the help received so far, Especially Mundabit who has helped enormously.
 
I spoke to James, by email, last night and I am happy that he was not trying to do anything underhanded. No attempts to offer services for money or otherwise spamming trolling was done. Only an offer to release their data to me with no charge and an offer of help / advice was given.
 
However as mentioned, Mundabit had already sorted me out with another group who are now dealing with some analysis and advice.
 
OK, yes there probably is a lot of spammers etc out there. However, I've been hit by a group of the worst, and if there are good guys out there who want to try and repair the damage done to the industry reputation then I'd like to think that was a good thing. It even borders on industry self regulation, in my opinion.
 
Again, thanks for all the help. It is really appreciated.
 
Jason
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Patrick Altoft 1/29/13 8:30 AM
Are you guys serious? That wasn't even intended to be a link the forum just automatically created a link because I added a space in the email address. As for it being unsolicited the OP came on here asking for help and I am offering my time for free. If the OP wanted to post the info in here they would have done but as it's a private matter the only thing we can do is offer our email addresses.

If you are sensitive to people offering help then that's your problem don't take it out on me.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company JHLeeds 1/29/13 8:32 AM
Lysis, I don't understand why you're so hostile to people wanting to help (or why you keep putting "help" in quotes). I know there are a lot of shit SEOs, but Patrick isn't one. He runs a reputable and respected business in the UK and is a nice guy.

Neither Patrick nor I link dropped, nor are we out to make any money out of Jason. Google Groups changes any domain name in a post into a link. If I could have posted my email address as plain text without it being linkified then I would have.

PS: Contrary to what you imagine, I did give the data I promised to the OP and I didn't ask for anything in return and nor would I.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Lysis 1/29/13 8:36 AM
Well you're just a standup SEO guy who hasn't posted any help anywhere except for now. You should be given a medal.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Lysis 1/29/13 8:37 AM
oops and I think this accidentally got moved... We have new peeps. I moved it back.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company travler. 1/29/13 8:46 AM
PS: Contrary to what you imagine, I did give the data I promised to the OP and I didn't ask for anything in return and nor would I.

easy to say after the fact. 


Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Steven Lockey 1/29/13 8:57 AM
Basically its going to come down to what was promised in the contract. 

If the contract promised specific services that they provided, well you are probably out of luck, they will always claim the advertising referred to other services you didn't take. 

If the contract is more general or they didn't do things promised in the contract then you have a better chance. Either way, its something I would talk to a solicitor about, its something that will likely come down to the legalese in the contract.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company StevieD_Web 1/29/13 9:00 AM
We are a pretty jaded group around here as most offers of off-the-forum help either:

A) have big strings attached

B) Are scammers trying to take advantage of the weak and vulnerable.


It is the same with Lawyers handing out business cards at the scene of an accident.  Sure, sure they might just be offering up their contact info because they witnessed the accident, then again they just may be trolling for business.


Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Matt1982 1/29/13 9:12 AM
That was a fairly childish response. Out of interest why does it matter is this is the first time he has offered to help? Plus (fairly obviously) everyone has to offer to help for the first time, otherwise it can't be your second... and so on.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Lysis 1/29/13 9:18 AM
Yeah, but people who offer help and aren't soliciting don't drop contact details for their SEO contact email.

NO SOLICITING..we don't need the SEO frauds coming here and ruining the place.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company JHLeeds 1/29/13 9:21 AM
I can see this, and I'm sure you're right. However I don't think either Patrick nor I gave the impression that we were acting in a predatory manner, yet we got what I think was an unnecessarily vicious response. We're both very busy and don't have the time to hang around making thousands of forum posts, but nobody wants to see a rogue company acting in a way which reflects badly on the rest of the industry, hence the offer of help.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company JHLeeds 1/29/13 9:24 AM
On Tuesday, January 29, 2013 5:18:10 PM UTC, Lysis wrote:
Yeah, but people who offer help and aren't soliciting don't drop contact details for their SEO contact email.

They do when it's a sensitive matter and the details can't be discussed on a public forum. That would prejudice an ongoing legal matter which could lead to someone being found in contempt of court.

There is no private message function, so what other means could we have initiated private contact?

NO SOLICITING..we don't need the SEO frauds coming here and ruining the place.

Nobody solicited. Neither of us are frauds. You're being completely childish and objectionable for no good reason, to the detriment of the forum as a whole in my opinion.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Matt1982 1/29/13 9:28 AM
SEO fraud?! lol I'll let you figure out who Patrick is and work out that he probably doesn't need to troll an SEO help board for clients.

And maybe people want to offer their email address as it is easier to send stuff rather than post it on an increasingly long forum. A shame people are being put off posting offers for help. Why don't you judge people by the highest standard rather than the lowest and see how that goes for a while. Maybe the forum would get more participation.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Lysis 1/29/13 9:30 AM
You guys are just as bad as the ambulance chasing lawyers. You want to take a stab at some big name SEO firm to make yourselves look better for things YOU YOURSELVES probably do ALSO! Please don't insult our intelligence by feigning innocence. Please don't try to tell us you wouldn't have taken advantage if you hadn't been called out. There is no soliciting here....don't do it especially if you're an SEO peddling some dumb link service or blah blah whitehat blah.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company JHLeeds 1/29/13 9:36 AM
/facepalm
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company AV 1 1/29/13 9:38 AM
This is my favourite thread so far :)
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Matt1982 1/29/13 9:49 AM
With regards to the below - I don't need to feign innocence, i haven't dropped a link of any kind in here. I haven't even offered any services to anyone. 

I am merely taking exception to someone being bullied for offering help so i decided to comment. Maybe the original poster can look after themselves and doesn't actually need your "help". Maybe if any of the people who offer help via email then try and charge them, they just need to say no thanks. They are potentially missing out on some great free advice because of your "help".
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company AV 1 1/29/13 9:54 AM
mmmmmmmmmm I have to agree with Lyss I dont think that this forum is enriched in anyway by SEO professionals regardless of thier intentions. I think that there are plenty of experienced webmasters here offering plenty of great advice and the forum would be much better of without the external influence or SEO pros
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company JHLeeds 1/29/13 9:59 AM
You have read the reply by the OP a couple of hours ago, haven't you? Care to comment?
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company JHLeeds 1/29/13 10:05 AM
Maybe you're right, and I do usually stay away. In the topic of this thread though I think we both had something useful to offer beyond what many other people might have been able to.

I offered independent historical ranking data specific to the OPs site. Where else could he have obtained that from?

It's still not necessary to tell people to GTFO, call them frauds and act obnoxiously towards them.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Matt1982 1/29/13 10:10 AM
If that is your view then i respect that, but at the same time that may not be the view of everyone who uses the forum but you are denying them the chance to choose for themselves.

My argument would be that a lot of SEO professionals spend a large proportion of their day analysing sites and rectifying issues created by others and have first hand experience of a lot of the issues discussed on a lot of threads, so their view may be valid and useful. There a lot of genuinely nice SEOs who just want to help people out in the same way you guys offer advice.

Just because there are some bad SEOs out there doesn't mean they all are. In the same way that i would expect there are some bad webmasters, web designers and web developers who harm peoples sites through bad practices. So why is it the SEOs who are hung out to dry?


Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Lysis 1/29/13 10:12 AM
Well thanks for your comments dear. Your opinion is important to us.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company AV 1 1/29/13 10:13 AM
I think if this forum becomes populated with sound advice from seo professionals its a little like I dont know getting advice from the criminals about what sentances and punishments they should they recieve or having a company investigate itself and tell itself off. Advise is always given from a personal objective and as a business owner if your only intention here was to be seen as a good guy and cgood contributor it is still how would one say self promoting even if innocent. If were you and genuinely wanted to offer a robin hood of SEO services service I would create another account seperate from your business and take up a alias I think RobinHood would also be a good user name :)

Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company JHLeeds 1/29/13 10:20 AM
So anyone who makes money out of paid SEO work isn't welcome? Hmmm... https://www.elance.com/s/lysis/
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Lysis 1/29/13 10:27 AM
That's old news brah.  You could also look up the blogs about me.

We have SEOs here. There is NO SOLICITING, however. Go ahead and point me to a post where I've solicited from people.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company JHLeeds 1/29/13 10:29 AM
On Tuesday, January 29, 2013 6:27:08 PM UTC, Lysis wrote:
Go ahead and point me to a post where I've solicited from people.

No, you go first, I insist :-) 
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company AV 1 1/29/13 10:30 AM
Hmmmmmmmmm
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Matt1982 1/29/13 10:35 AM
As i see neither of you are grown up enough to have a sensible conversation i will let you get on with it. By the way good argument with one person in a group does something so they must all be doing it, can't see any flaws in that argument or any areas where that has been used before.

One final thing to add though - personally i wouldn't take advice from someone who uses an exact match term to link to their Google plus page, which in turn links to a site (i assume their own) where a lot of the links are exact match anchor text directory links. Although you should be able to give good first hand advice for someone who has been hot by a Google penalty by the looks of things.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company JHLeeds 1/29/13 10:40 AM
Aaanyway. I'm going to unsub from this thread because it's gone a bit circular.

OP was happy with the help I gave him, and has confirmed this above.

Good luck with your forum.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Lysis 1/29/13 10:40 AM
Well Matt, we appreciate your time and concern. Good day to you, sir. 
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company AV 1 1/29/13 10:41 AM
That is what comes of using professional SEO services.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Ashley 1/29/13 11:40 AM
Um, skimmed a bit - but net is 

If you're offering free help - then post it here. That's the point of these forums. There is NO NEED for you to be dropping contact info and taking it offline. That's not in the spirit of the forums and it looks terrible for you. 


We are all here to volunteer and help and contribute to a public knowledge base. Taking it offline does nothing, for anybody. 
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Suzanneh 1/30/13 2:05 PM
>>predatory manner,

That's the thing about predators, they don't act in a predatory manner, necessarily...

Suzanne
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Suzanneh 1/30/13 2:12 PM
>> lol I'll let you figure out who Patrick is and work out that he probably doesn't need to troll an SEO help board for clients.

Nobody gets special treatment here; no matter who they are.

Let's look at it a different way:  I have a weight loss/fitness website, and a fitness trainer/health coach cert.  Would it be right for me to go round to other weight loss forums, offering people free help if they just email me?  Can you really say that's okay?  Even if I have the best intentions to help people lose weight and don't need the clients?  Can you really not see how that looks to the moderators of a forum?

Telling somebody to email you is a form of soliciting.

Suzanne
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Patrick Altoft 1/30/13 2:33 PM
All I can say is this is the last time I will ever try to help anybody on this forum. You guys are ruining it with your attitude towards people.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Matt1982 1/30/13 2:34 PM
I can see how it could potentially look. But why judge people by low standards and assume guilt with no proof other than someone putting an email in a forum post. If it is so bad, then why even have that functionality on the forum?

Let's look at it the way it actually was and not jump to the same conclusions... he offered to help them for free and asked them to contact him by email. Telling someone to email you for some free advice is, well, offering someone free advice. If you then ask for money, THEN (and only then) it becomes solicitation, but until that point it is offering help and there is no indication that he was going to do that. And of course the person can refuse.

Let's instead look at the response he got in the forum a different way - he and others offered help and was met by a torrent of abuse as some of the people didn't like the way they did it. Can you see how that looks like bullying and trolling to people who don't come on here very often (or i would hope the moderators).

In fact the same way I was treated with contempt and sarcasm when I put my view across which happened to be different (and i didn't put an email up or "solicit" anything). Apparently, the users of this forum have banned any SEOs from offering help because, as with any industry, there are a few bad ones. Abuse for having a different view - how does that look to the moderators?
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Ashley 1/30/13 2:36 PM
Nobody gets special treatment here; no matter who they are.
WORD!

That's why they let SEO nobodies in here too (like myself). It's not about your business, your reputation, your social links, your self-promotion (blabber). It's just about good, accurate advice per question. 
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company StevieD_Web 1/30/13 2:43 PM
+2 to Suzanneh

I would mark best answer but it would just arouse the flames of passion even more

so,

+2 to Suzanneh
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Suzanneh 1/30/13 2:54 PM
>>But why judge people by low standards and assume guilt with no proof other than someone putting an email in a forum post.

Because it's the interwebs! Need I say more?  ;-)

And who's going to be SOL if forum moderators assume people have the best intentions?  The OP, that's who.  Maybe you'd be willing to take that chance on your forum, but not around here.

Suzanne
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Matt1982 1/30/13 3:12 PM
That's fair enough if that is your view. But i see you side have no view about the treatment i received for offering a different view, is it only the original posters who deserve "protection" (not that i actually need any, but it would be nice all the same)?

The only thing i would say, take your statement and apply it in an offline situation... I'm sure you and a lot of people on the forum would be up in arms if organisations "protected" people by assuming guilt with no proof. Much in the same way they would be horrified if their freedom to put another view across was limited by a mob who disagreed with them and voiced this with contempt, sarcasm and bullying until that view was eradicated.

But as you say, it's just the interwebs...
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Suzanneh 1/30/13 3:27 PM
As far as I can remember, I'm not anybody's mother in here... :-)  You made a comment and I was just responding to that. 

This is Google's forum; Google's rules.  You're comparing apples to orange vis-a-vis a forum and the outside world. 

Suzanne
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Matt1982 1/30/13 3:38 PM
You were the one suggesting people on here needed protecting by the moderators...

Anyway, i think we will have to agree to disagree. Personally i thought those rights should be valid everywhere.

Have a nice evening.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Lysis 1/30/13 3:59 PM
Oh look it's the guy who said he wasn't coming back but did like 20 times. It's so easy to trollface SEOs.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Matt1982 1/30/13 4:08 PM
Sorry Lysis, not going to be taking the bait - life is too short.

I just came back to have a sensible discussion with someone with a differing view.

Have a nice evening.
Re: Bad SEO now going to court against company Lysis 1/30/13 4:32 PM
>> Sorry Lysis, not going to be taking the bait

Dude, you just did.
More topics »