|When I try to push/pull a hole in a wall, the push/pull tool extrudes a shape on the opposite side of the wall instead o||specflec||1/13/10 11:01 AM|
I am trying to put doors and windows in a building by using the push/pull tool. When I select the rectangle to be cut out, the push/pull tool extrudes the rectangle out the opposite side of the wall instead of cutting a hole for the wall opening. I have done this in the past but now there is something different that I cannot figure out. Help is appreciated.
Operating system:Mac OS X 5.8
|Re: When I try to push/pull a hole in a wall, the push/pull tool extrudes a shape on the opposite side of the wall instead o||su.rickgraham||1/13/10 12:07 PM|
Make sure that you are extending only to the back face (how far you want the hole to extend). If this doesn't work, there's always intersect with model and delete.
|Re: When I try to push/pull a hole in a wall, the push/pull tool extrudes a shape on the opposite side of the wall instead o||Gully Foyle||1/13/10 12:38 PM|
This tends to happen when the two faces aren't perfectly parallel; probably one of them is subtly out of whack. You can either remodel the offending geometry or you can probably get away with using the Intersect command, as Rick suggests, although that same out-of-kilter face may keep causing problems for you. I have tried it both ways, and I can say that it's much more satisfying when you know there isn't some weird defect in the geometry that you gave up on.
If it's any solace, this kind of thing happens less and less as you become more proficient.
|Re: When I try to push/pull a hole in a wall, the push/pull tool extrudes a shape on the opposite side of the wall instead o||NuclearMoose||1/13/10 2:34 PM|
There is a "Cleanup Model" ruby script out there somewhere; do you know, Gully, if it would identify the kind of geometry error of which you are referring?
|Gully Foyle||1/13/10 3:38 PM|
To my knowledge, NM, "cleanup" scripts mainly deal with repairing edge defects: stray edges, gaps, overshoots--that sort of thing, not face defects or wracked or skewed geometry.
Maybe Gaieus will chime in with some magic script, although I don't think there's an easy remedy for off-axis geometry.
|Gaieus||1/14/10 1:12 AM|
Craig, if you are talking about ThomThom's Cleanup.rb, that indeed won't fix such a defect (although I have to tell that it's the best cleanup plugin I have ever used). So Gully's solution is the best you can do - either fix the non-parallel wall or simply intersect and learn from this lesson.
|specflec||1/14/10 8:33 AM|
Thanks all. I still have a few problems in which I seem not to be able to identify a pattern - yet. I can push/pull a hole with a rectangle but sometimes putting another rectangle inside the first will not allow me to cut a hole. But then again, sometimes it will. I am using construction lines and this seems to have a bearing on the problem as well - sometimes. But the surfaces are parallel in that they were extruded from a base rectangle and made with parallel lines. I am betting on operator error here. I am fairly new to the program but not computers so I am sure things will get worked out. Thanks again for the help.
|Oakwolf||4/27/10 8:01 PM|
I'm another newb, and I've had the same problem. I created several detailed pieces without a glitch, and now I find my push/pull doesn't want to perform correctly, leaving an extrusion instead of a void, as described above.
I seem to have found a solution: I align nearly face-on to the shape I hope to make into a hole. If I can see cleanly through the opening, it becomes a hole; if I try to push through from a "blind" position, I get an extruded shape on the back of my form.
This *is* occurring with perfect rectangles, as drawn by SU using the tool for that purpose. I don't remember having had to do this alignment trick on my earlier pieces, but maybe I did it without noticing. Glitch, user issue, or business as usual?
Mac OS 10.5.8
SketchUp v. 7.1.6859
|electricia||5/14/10 2:19 PM|
Oakwolf - Thanks! This has been driving me crazy for a week, and all of the forums seem to think that it's because my surfaces aren't parallel when I know they are because it's a rectangle created using the push/pull tool. But I tried doing it face-on, and it worked. Any other angle, and it extrudes to the back. I don't understand why. But at least now I know a trick. I just wish I could figure out why it's happening the rest of the time, because it's annoying to have to try to line it up in just the perfect way.
|Gully Foyle||5/14/10 3:28 PM|
Yeah, those blind pushes are tricky. Since you don't see the visual feedback from that opposite face, you can't see when you get On surface inferencing (as you would if you were looking directly through the hole, and you just keep pushing past the end of the object.
If you can't see the far face to get On Face inferencing for the end of the Push, you can go for another kind of inferencing that will be visible and that will stop the Push at the opposite face. In Reference 1, I'm doing a blind push of a hole through a block. Since I can't see the face I want to stop on, I'm using the Endpoint at the bottom corner instead. Just start Push your shape and snap to any point on the opposite face to stop the extrusion exactly on the face.
|65fastback||6/13/10 9:34 AM|
I was seriously ready to punch my computer as I had made several holes but then they just quit working. moved head on and voila, worked again.
|Frances54||1/19/11 8:21 AM|
I have been having the same issues. What Gully doesn't explain is how to do the selection. I used the selection tool (pointer) to choose the surface I wanted to extrude, then picked the push/pull tool, then clicked on the front corner of the object and then the adjacent back corner of the object, that got me the hole I wanted.
Please, more details in your explanations, we newbies need to understand the process!
|Gaieus||1/19/11 9:19 AM|
Frances, two things:
1) The PushPull tool works without preselected faces too. True however that if you go along your route, you need to preselect the face - note however that this preselect+PushPull is new in SU 8 (which of course you do not necessarily need to know) but specflec has SU 7 where you cannot do it this way.
2) Anyway, once you start your PushPull operation from the face (not the endpoint) it will act the same way - you can still snap to the second endpoint to stop the tool right where needed.
2.5) I hope I may reveal that many experienced users, when faced with the new preselect+PP tool, did not like it and many of them even disables it (in fact, the ability to disable it came from this big resistance). I do not know how Gully is with this but many older users still do not thin about it when explaining. Otherwise he generally provides excellently detailed replies...
Your approach is quite spectacular from a "newbie" however. Indeed this would be the best way if we used the Move tool in a cumbersome situation for instance. So with a little exercising, I guess you will easily become an experienced user as you've got the eye for it.
|Jean Lemire||1/19/11 10:30 AM|
Also, dont forget that the Orbit, Pan and Zoom Tools, along with any display mode change, scene change, turning layers on/off, etc, are always available, even in the middle of any drawing, measuring, dimensioning, moving, rotating, scaling, etc, operation.
As an example with the Push/Pull Tool, you can :
1 - Begin a push while viewing the object from a front/right/top view.
2 - While the pushing/pulling action is in progress, orbit to see a rear/rigth/top view of the object, for example.
3 - Complete the pushing action using the now clearly visible back face for snapping the action.
|MirDesign||2/11/11 7:10 PM|
I've had the same struggle with the Push/Pull tool, trying to cut a hole, but instead extruding a surface out behind. I figured out that I needed to click on the Push/Pull tool, left-click on the shape I want to cut out and hold, dragging my cursor up past the top of the shape, past the top front edge of the wall, and STOP, when the arrow of the cursor hits the top back edge of the wall. It works 100% of the time if your wall surfaces are parallel. (If you go beyond the top back edge of the wall, the surface always extrudes.)
|PeteMoss||2/18/11 4:49 AM|
I am brand new to SU. While going through the tutorials, I got stuck in the middle of #3 where she is cutting holes in objects. Sometimes my pushpull tool would cut a hole and sometimes it would extrude a projectout out the other side.
After reading the answers to this question, I discovered that SU does provide a way to guarantee a cutout no matter the orientation as long as one edge on the back side is visible. Just terminate the push anywhere on that edge and it will be a hole.
1. Draw a rectangle (or some shape).
2. Use pushpull to create an object (rectangular solid or wall).
3. Draw a circle (or some shape) on one face.
4. Select pushpull and start pushing the circle through to the back. Without releasing the pushpull tool, terminate the push by touching the tool anywhere on the back edge.
This will create a cutout (a hole) every single time.
|specflec||2/18/11 8:43 AM|
thanks to all!
|Jean Lemire||2/18/11 10:44 AM|
If the back plane is not readily visible and you fell too lazy to orbit the model in order to see it or, at least, an edge, to snap the pushing action, you may try using the X-Ray mode to be able to snap to an edge that you know belong to the back plane.
|JaNmAkOwKa||2/19/11 1:46 PM|
If you push/pull too far, just orbit round and push/pull it back to the face that you want the hole to be on. This is what I used to do. :-). Hope I helped!
|Frances54||6/21/11 7:07 AM|
This is interesting, and frustrating. I just downloaded version 8 after a hiatus of 6 weeks of not using Sketchup. I have been trying to make a hole in an extruded cube. Every time it either extrudes out the other side, or stops at the rear face. I have tried every one of these suggestions, except the scripts and downloads, and nothing works. If it stops at the back face I can then delete the face and get a hole, but what is going on here? Why isn't this working?
Like the original post I started with a rectangle so I know the sides are parallel, pulled it up to the required height, used move/copy to offset the edges into a smaller rectangle on one face, used push/pull to push though to the other side.
|jrobinss||8/15/11 10:43 AM|
I'm looking at the same problem, I've posted a reply over here:
Basically after trying for hours to make holes in several objects, I've narrowed it down to 4 coplanar points that don't define a surface, which is very strange.
If I solve that one, I'll go on to try (again!) to make holes in the object.
My object is here:
|Gaieus||8/15/11 3:23 PM|
Could you rather upload the skp file (straight from SU) as the kmz file needs conversion and who knows what info gets lost during that...
|jrobinss||8/15/11 4:21 PM|
I tried to connect from Sketchup, but it didn't work (it says "please try to connect from a web browser"), so I went to 3D warehouse and there I could only upload a kmz file.
Here's the skp file
(solving one problem at a time here...)
|Gaieus||8/15/11 4:35 PM|
OK, understandable, sorry.
Well, your edges are not coplanar - despite if the colour by axis display (it has a certain tolerance). I switched to millimetres and to 3 digit precision and here is what I found: the endpoints (labelled with the text tool which returns endpoint co-ordinates by default) are not on the same plane along the red axis.
If I move the endpoint to the same x axis value, the face forms perfectly.
|jrobinss||8/15/11 5:12 PM|
"it has a certain tolerance"... aha, that's the thing then!!!
That explains a lot: the absence of holes, the strange forms of surfaces when I try coloring, etc.
I've just managed to obtain the same display as you (in 1/1000 mm, displayed for each point).
This means I should be extra careful when creating the basis of my building, because now I'm a bit afraid of correcting that kind of stuff now that it's surrounded in smaller walls, windows etc.
BTW, I started off using reference points, made with the tape measurer, so that I can make lines more easily... however, it seems that these points are a PITA to remove afterwards, difficult to find and difficult to select. Plus, they seem to chop up my lines in little pieces, which is really annoying. Any comments on that?
Many thanks for the answer.
|Gully Foyle||8/15/11 5:46 PM|
Once you learn to depend more on inferencing to control and constrain geometry as you construct it--and less on guidelines and guide points--you'll find that your accuracy improves dramatically and the incidence of off-axis or non-coplanar geometry drops off to almost nothing. This really comes down to practice, and developing a "feel" for the control mechanisms built into the software.
Guidelines and guide points do not "cut" geometry. Only actual edges cut other edges.
You can easily get rid of all guide points and guidelines in one shot using Edit > Delete Guides.
When I started using SU, I made extensive use of guidelines and guide points, and my models were thick with them. Now I use them infrequently in special situations.
|Gaieus||8/15/11 6:30 PM|
I also seldom use guide lines (although do use them of course when really needed). A typical scenario would be to move an endpoint along the edge it is on - SU does not like "On edge" inference in such cases (I guess I would infer to the same geometry I am trying to modify) so I draw a guide line then.
However you should be able to model with guides as accurately as with real geometry - the matter is merely getting cluttered after a while (imagin drawing guide lines inside components and ending up with them all over the instances).
|jrobinss||8/16/11 7:51 AM|
Thanks for the answers, especially the edit-delete tip.
In fact, I use guidelines because I'm copying real-life drawings with measures and it's reassuring. I've slightly changed my method, now I always rely on guides outside of my drawing, easy to see and manipulate. Yes, it's mainly for those lines nearly-parallel-but-no-quite that are in real-life old buildings (there's no real right angles in there), otherwise I keep snapping to the axes. And it's also because the measures on the architect's photocopies from years ago are not necessarily those you need!
Maybe I could rely on the offset tool so that my lines, even bizarre, are always parallel. What do you think?
I suppose that using mainly lines, not forms, and guides, and non-parallel lines, is what got me into this mess in the first place: everything is ok, but imprecision builds up with each step until it reaches a couple of tenths of mms, and then surfaces are no longer reliable.
Oh, question: how do you correct a point that is 499,849 mm into 500 mm?
I can move it, but I can only type in the move distance, not the absolute coordinate I want to reach
(in this case, I would have to type... mmmh... 0,151mm, and still not be sure because maybe some monster is lurking after the last visible digit)
Maybe select the point and then type coordinates? I'll try it.
|jrobinss||8/16/11 10:46 AM|
Ok, found it, here's for others in the same case:
I quote: "Type the exact or relative coordinate. Global Coordinates: [x, y, z] of the current Sketch Axes"
(in my case, I'm in Europe so that I type in [500;2060;80 and then return (no need for the closing sq braket))
Next time I'll try with offset. I'm also thinking of another way to draw thick walls so that this doesn't happen.
Tricky Sketchup. Thinking of going back to sweetHome3D ;-)
|Gaieus||8/17/11 10:32 PM|
No, it is much easier than that.
1) deselect everything (i.e. make sure nothing is selected)
2) now with the Move tool, hover over the endpoint you want to move
3) when the inference engine highlights ot, you can "grab" it with the Move tool
4) Now start moving it but (in your case) press the right arrow button on your keyboard to lock the move on the red axis
5) finally simply snap to the endpoint that is in the correct position.
Unlike any other geometry, we cannot "preselect" endpoints in SU but the auto-select function of the Move tool works with them...
And yes, I know, we also rarely have rectangular buildings here (at least in the old, historic centre of my town).
|jrobinss||8/23/11 12:06 PM|
Well, thank you for all the tips, now I think I'll go to other threads with my numerous small issues.
I just tried with the tip of moving along one axis... Wow, fine!
For other readers: you just have to understand that this enables to select a faraway point while moving along only one dimension. This enables to align with a point that is so close (1/10th mm different) that guides would probably be unworkable.
So... thanks again. We'll meet again. :-)
Oh, for what it's worth: I'm modelling a 1910 house, so naturally it's a crooked house, but I'm also modelling a 1990 appartement, and guess what? There are a couple of angles not quite right there too! Surprise, surprise... :-)
|robertderosny||2/8/12 8:47 AM|
Thank you Oakwolf,
Thank you electricia. your words are mine. everybody answers : "your faces are not parralel", but i know they are, i've created them with push pull from a rectangle on the ground. so the solution is indeed oakwolf solution : face the wall !
I can't understand how a serious tool like sketchup could still have such a bug two years after your post..
|Gully Foyle||2/9/12 7:09 AM|
|oldfox||2/23/12 8:30 AM|
Well, like most of the others above, I was having a problem "cutting" a hole. Only got that "other side extrusion". After reading the suggestions I decided to use the ONLY method that works 100% of the time on my platform. I always know the thickness of the object I want to cut. If not, then I just use the "dimension" tool to find out how thick it is. Then when I am in the middle of the push-pull operation I simply enter the thickness in the measurements window. Works!!! And yes, I am new to SketchUp. I am however experienced in ACAD and Alibre. Maybe that expreience is what was clouding my thinking. But after going through all 4 of the "getting started" videos, I never caught the fact that you must stop the PP on the opposite face for it to make a hole. I also tried to click on the line or inference point on the opposite face but the PP tool pointer just showed that red X within the circle. ("No, user, I don't want to go there") So in short, just enter the thickness and it works.
Thanks, all of you, for your words of wisdom. Just wish Google would add a "previous view" button to SketchUp 8 free version.
|Gaieus||2/23/12 9:19 AM|
Just wish Google would add a "previous view" button to SketchUp 8 free version.
There is a "Zoom previous" button in the Camera toolbar (View > Toolbars)
|evie5||9/12/12 4:47 PM|
I'm doing all of the above but it's not working. I've looked at it in x-ray mode but I don't see any lines in the way...it appears to be parallel? I'm going crazy!!