|Incorrect Catalan Labels||Daniel (Google Community Manager)||12/16/11 3:09 PM|
We've gotten a number of posts about the Catalan labels appearing in the wrong language on Google Maps. There's a technical issue on our end— we're working on a fix.
Thanks for alerting us,
|Re: Incorrect Catalan Labels||Marc B. Poblet||12/16/11 4:48 PM|
Thanks a lot for your interest in taking care of this issue.
First of all, I want to note that apparently other iberian languages - in particular I've heard about Galician - have also been affected by this issue. I think it would be worth it to investigate exactly which may have been affected, and if other undesired modifications (maybe even in spanish or other languages) have taken place.
Secondly, just in case I'll point - although you probably are already aware of it - that most local administrations probably offer free open geographical databases which could probably be used to help fix the issue without fear of relapse. The city council of Barcelona, for one, as already offered theirs, in response to this very issue.
Finally, from other sources it seems that the issue may be due to a... corrupted... third party database. The "blame" would thus not fall on Google, and that's all right. But the responsibility, I believe, *does* indeed fall on you, as much as in that third party. When one of my customers finds a fault in a product I supplied, they don't care if the fault is mine or my suppliers'; they hold *me* responsible, and it's my responsibility to fix the issue and then handle any problems with my suppliers.
I mention this not as an attack on Google, but because someone (in that third party supplier) seems to have taken a certain effort to cause this issue, for reasons unknown. The modifications look to me like a work of "translation by search and replace": they're much too consistent and extensive to have been done by hand, yet they contain certain errors that seem to preclude the possibility of an automatic translation, like the ortographic error in "ovispo" (should have been "obispo") or the transformation of "Josep Pla" into "José Placita", possibly due to an in-word substitution of "pla" (abbreviation of "placeta", "small square", "placita" - although "placecita" would probably be better, and anyway the abreviation is lost, showing again the low quality of the "work").
I really think it would be best for all, specially to recover the confidence of the users in Google's tools (which admittedly were till now considered by most to be among the most useful), to investigate how and why could this happen, who was responsible, and which were their reasons (which may go from an attack on catalan and similar languages, to an attack on Google itself, to simple massive trolling). Maximum openness, I believe, would benefit everyone (except, of course, the individuals responsible).
Once again, thank you and keep up the good work.
|Re: Incorrect Catalan Labels||RPcat||12/17/11 6:56 PM|
Actually, What I can not understand is why someone has gone to a lot of trouble and effort to replace a perfectly good database of street names (in catalan) with an inferior quality, incomplete and sometimes offensive set of new labels .. Who asked for the translation? - We do not want a translation. Why destroy the work that has been so carefully done over the last few years? Let me be perfectly clear we do not need a translation, we do not want a translation we have our own language we call a "street" a "carrer" not a "calle". I speak for many people who would simply stop using your product if you don't show sensibility and respect on this issue.
I understand why you would want to call this a technical issue, but if you really think about it. It is actually a human failure issue. Somewhere along the process someone made the wrong decision or was misinformed. Please go back to using the previous version.
If by any chance you have plans for on the fly language translations of map labels ... please abandon them as they are a terrible idea since in order to navigate the streets with a map .. the map labels need to match reality on the ground and not a person/government wish or policy.
|Re: Incorrect Catalan Labels||Rossinyol||12/17/11 11:01 PM|
I fear it’s
disingenuous to speak of a ‘technical issue’. It would be infinitely more
plausible if you were to say that it was a clumsy April Fools’ joke, on the
wrong day/month. To help you gage the caliber of the ‘joke’ you could try stopping
any ‘native’ anywhere near Google HQ and asking for directions to King’s Way. If
the native(s) did look puzzled you could try explaining that it’s one of the
longest thoroughfares in Saint Francis. If still no joy, you could try asking
for Royal Road, Royal Way (it would depend on who translated the map!).
Amazed, former fan of Google :-(
|Re: Incorrect Catalan Labels||Jacques||12/18/11 4:36 PM|
It has clearly been a fanatic person that tried to force an Spanish translation of all names, like if in the USA someone tried to force an English tranlation of all non English names "Texas Street" will turn in "Roof Tiles Street" having it translated from Spanish, "Beaumont Lane" will turn in "Beautiful Mountain Lane" translated from French, "Alabama Drive" will turn in "Vegetation Gatherers Drive" translated from Choctaw, "Winnipeg Trail" will turn in "Muddy Waters Trail" translated from Cree and "Tazetta Path" will turn in "Little Cup Path" translated from Italian.
I'm sure that Google Maps will never let happen such a grotesque thousends of names change in USA without firing this language fanatic.
Probably Google Maps is trying now (three days with that ridiculous fail) to use both names, but this will not solve the problem that the translated names does NOT exist in place, and this will still make Google Maps useless in the same way that "Muddy Waters" translation from Cree does not exist in the places were Winnipeg name is used.
This is an epic fail for Google Maps.
|Re: Incorrect Catalan Labels||Jacques||12/21/11 6:11 AM|
At this time Google has started to post back the real official names in Catalonia. Thank you.
But it still hapens this wrong official names problem in other spanish places were the nomenclator is in catalan language (Valencia and Balearic Islands), were the situation remains the same with grotesque translations of real official names.
Because it are less people living in these places, they don't have the possibility to make as much pressure to Google as it has been done by the Governement and the milions of people living in Catalonia.
The credibility of Googe Maps will only be attained if it mach the real official names.
|Re: Incorrect Catalan Labels||Rossinyol||12/21/11 7:51 AM|
Great to see some progress (21 Dec). But there's still much, much more fixing to be done. My own home-town (Valls), e.g., still has 'Carretera de Monteblanco' (instead of Montblanc!), and Map and StreetView still displaying conflicting labels for the same location (e.g. Carretera del Llano / Carretera del Pla), and so son, and on, and on :-(
Please, please keep at it.
|Re: Incorrect Catalan Labels||GURUdotCAT||12/27/11 4:38 AM|
This is creating a lot of confusion.
Please use Legal / Official street and city names that our legal political country & city representatives are requiring you:
|Re: Incorrect Catalan Labels||Jacques||12/28/11 5:30 PM|
Two weeks have gone and Google is still not solving the problem.
Now is clear the origin of it. It has been a mistake in the databases of Tele Atlas (a maps provider).
The new owners of Tele Atlas were wrongly thinking that the language situation in the nomenclator in catalan countries was the same than in other European places as Brussel (french + flamish) or Helsinki (finnish + swedish) in were they have the nomenclator in two languages. In Catalonia, Valencia and Balearic Islands the nomenclator is right now only in Catalan.
Tele Atlas put the different languages in separated databases and fill the rest of the spanish language database with a grotesque (and insulting) translation, keeping the right names in a separated database that has been already used by many companies to avoid the problem.
Google taked only the wrong database and used it without understanding.
Now, for two weeks, Google is trying to mix both databases keeping the problem alive with thousends of mistakes and insulting names.
1- Even if the translation is right, these names does not exist in place. In the same way that “Saint Didacus” is the right english translation of the Californian city of “San Diego”. Google will never try to add “Saint Didacus” labels to all the USA places that are related to “San Diego” because it does not exist in place and will only disturb the understanfding.
2- It still are thousends of bad translated names that are insulting the people living in these areas. It is not acceptable that Google insist in isult the people.
Why the Google worker that started these posts, Mr Daniel Mabasa’s profile says that he lived in “Los Angeles” and in “San Francisco” and not “The Angels” or “Saint Francis” but Google forces me to see in their maps that I live in “Lerida” instead of the official name of “Lleida”.
Google should accept to use only the official names without adding imaginative translations to other languages even if it are official languages in these areas, the same as english is official language in California but Google don’t try to translate all names from spanish origin into english.
What you don’t want to happen to you, don’t do it to other people!!!
|Re: Incorrect Catalan Labels||Jacques||1/1/12 1:56 PM|
This traslations problem with Google Maps has started also to happen with english in USA.
You can look for "Don Juan de Oñate Park" in Albuquerque NM USA, and you will find "Don Juan de Outstanding Natural Areate Park".
Which kind of stupid machine has translated the spanish language person name "Oñate" to the english "Outstanding Natural Areate"???.
Not Google Translator !!
|Re: Incorrect Catalan Labels||Jacques||1/15/12 11:20 AM|
I have modified this isue in Albuquerque with Map Maker and after explain the reasons Google has accepted it.
But Map Maker is not avalable in Catalonia, so we can't correct ourselves those thousends of mistakes that make GM unfair.
One month has goin on and the problem still not solved.
|Re: Incorrect Catalan Labels||PTK||1/18/12 2:25 AM|
I am an intensive user of Google Maps and Google Earth and I pormptly noticed about the problem of nomenclator in the municipalities of Catalonia when it started far more than a month ago.
I write here just to report that to date the problem still exist, altough they have amended some of the most shameful "translations" (among quotation marks because Plaza Calvo Sotelo is not the translation of Plaça Fransesc Macià but is the name that recieve one of the most relevant squares in the city when the Franco's era).
In Google Earth it occurs the same problem but with not exactly the same translations and with a different criteria of showing the original name and the translation, what is confusing because I tought they use excatly the same data than Google Maps. (e.g. Plaça Francesc Macià again where in Google Maps appears now correctly and in Google Earth only the spanish translation)
For a common user than me is difficult to understand how you are expirencing such problem when 2 months ago all data, both in Google Maps and Google Earth was perfectly correct, and since one month ago many users are complaining, reporting and explaining the problem, that cast doubt on your reputation.
So altough the tool is very useful and increasingly popular, and by mistake an error like this has happened, why the issue has not been fixed yet?
Thank you very much on your receptiveness.
|Re: Incorrect Catalan Labels||Rossinyol||1/28/12 7:39 AM|
Back to the environs of my home town (Valls)... We now have the utterly ridiculous case of Google Maps 'translating' a street name from 'Carretera del _Pla_ de Santa Maria' to 'Carretera del _Llano_ de Santa María', ...but, but, but the actual village where the street leads to has *also* been 'translated' to '_Placita_ de Santa Maria'!!!! Where do 'Llano' and 'Placita' come from as 'translations' of 'Pla'???? For the record: The correct village name is (has always been!!!!) 'Pla de Santa Maria'. Unsuspecting travellers ought to bear in mind that *all* sign-posts locally do still read *_Pla_*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|Re: Incorrect Catalan Labels||Jacques||2/16/12 5:56 AM|
Two months after the beginning of this isue and still yet is not solved.
As an hommage to the previous post of Mr Rossinyol I will explain one of the translations happening in his hometown (Valls).
At 25 Km from Valls it is a vilage named "Montblanc" (yes the same than the german manufacturer of writing instruments, similar to the french-italian mountain).
In different nearby towns it exist the "Road to Montblanc" ("Carretera de Montblanc"),
In catalan and in spanish languages is written the same "Carretera de Montblanc", but the linguistic radicals that are forcing this isue alive in Google Maps insist in change the name of the town "Montblanc" to the non existent town of "Monteblanco" as "Carretera de Monteblanco" in the "Road to Montblanc" that exist in the towns of "Valls", "Reus" and "La Selva del Camp", and is keept in the right way in the towns of "Solivella" and "L'Espluga de Francolí".
This example is just showing the incompetence of the person that insist in keep that isue alive, but it are thousends of other examples that are confusing people because it changed the meaning of the name and many that are insulting the people living in these places.
To use Google Maps has became even dangerous in Catalan speaking places if you try to follow his informations while driving a car.
We can not correct it into a decent translation in spanish language in MapMaker because this tool doesn't exist for Spain.
|Re: Incorrect Catalan Labels||Jacques||3/5/12 12:55 PM|
This weekend Google Earth has changed the ridiculous catalan translated names added in december for those actually in Google Maps (that have only hundreds of mistakes as the example in my previous post).
The issue is not solved, but this is one step in the good direction.
|Re: Incorrect Catalan Labels||Jacques||5/15/12 10:57 AM|
Five month later and GoogleMaps insist in not change that issue.
Today I will post here another clear example: The square "Francesc Macià" in Barcelona is still called "Calvo Sotelo". The name of this Square changed in 1979.
Mrs Calvo Sotelo was a fascist politician murdered in 1936 for his anti-Freemasonry activities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Calvo_Sotelo
His dead was an excuse for the rebels militar fascists who started the Spanish Civil War. His name was thus forced by Franco dictatorship.
Mr Francesc Macià was the 122nd president of Catalonia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesc_Macià_i_Llussà
Why GoogleMaps insist in use a name that does not exist in place since 1979?
Which interests have at GoogleMaps with the fascist organizations to force this name?
|Re: Incorrect Catalan Labels||Jacques||7/11/12 2:48 AM|
Today the authorities of another spanish region (Valencia) that has catalan as official language have requested Google to correct their thousends issues in the street and topographic names on that area.
When this issue has started at the end of November 2011 mainly catalan people have reacted quickly because is in Catalonia were live the most catalan speaking community, but the trouble exists also in Valencia an Balearic Islands, and is not yet solved.