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Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have...

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Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 6/22/11 6:23 AM
Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have. 

Basically, emails sent using gmail or google apps are at risk of appearing very unprofessional to recipients who use outlook (eg different sized fonts seemingly randomly scattered throughout the message).  There are quite a few threads about this (see below).  Not one of the threads below has been resolved.  Worse still, I don't think this is showing up as a known issue for google.  Google apps is a great tool but until this issue is fixed it is hard to advocate to professional organisations that they switch to it, because doing so carries the risk of emails appearing very unprofessional to other business users who use outlook. 

nb: we've noticed it when using lists (bullets and numbers), and also when cutting and pasting lines within a message (ie not even from external sources).  The problem is NOT helped by using the default text lab feature. 

Can someone from google please respond?

http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/gmail/thread?tid=4aaf63872f3f6899&hl=en








2011-06-22
quick update: we WANT to use the default text lab feature without this problem continuing.  A solution that involves using unformatted/plain text is not really what we're after...
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Sarah 6/23/11 9:49 AM
Hi SH105,

Thanks for compiling these links together. I am checking with the rest of my team. It's unclear to me exactly what is causing the problem, so I will need to look into it further before I know whether it can be fixed by us or needs to be corrected in Outlook.

It may take me a few weeks, but I will let you know when I have an update.

Best,
Sarah
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... imperfexshun 6/24/11 1:03 AM
Changing of fonts is not only in gmail used in conjunction with Outlook.  I don't use Outlook with gmail and it happens to me all the time (also to a couple of people with whom I communicate most frequently).  Sometimes it involves text that I have copied and pasted from a website or a word processing file on my computer.  Sometimes it involves text I typed and then decided to move so I cut from one place in the email and pasted elsewhere in the same email.  Well, it looks fine at the time and it's in the font style and size I have selected in my options to be my default font.  However, somehow when you hit send, that all goes out the window, so to speak, and it ends up being partly in my chosen font style and size and partly in the generic Arial 10 or 12 or whatever is the Normal-sized Sans Serif.  I know this because sometimes I send stuff I type in gmail to another of my email accounts and I see how it ends up.  It's very frustrating and as the person above said, it looks very unprofessional.  Also, I use the "large" setting for my default font as I send messages to people whose eyesight needs the larger font; and when it reverts to Arial, it's too small for those people to read. 
 
This isn't related to that problem, but I would like to suggest that gmail have a choice between Large and Huge on the font sizes.  That is just too big of a gap in size.  Couldn't you guys add a Very Large which would be halfway between Large and Huge?  Thank you.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 7/3/11 10:03 PM
Hi Sarah

Thanks for the update.  I just thought I'd mention that we recently noticed that if you have a draft email prepared in gmail, and then copy/paste into a google docs document, you will see the strange formatting.  Ie, it looks fine in gmail, but when copied into the google docs document, it looks odd.  If then corrected in the google docs doc (eg, make everything arial 10pt) and then pasted back in to the gmail message, it then comes out ok in the inbox of outlook recipients. 

So, drafting in google docs and then copying into gmail seems to be ok, but drafting in gmail and sending directly carries the risk that the email is going to look unprofessional to outlook recipients.  It's a hidden risk, because in the gmail draft the formatting all looks the same.

Note that this is happening with the default text lab activated (which is important to us).  

So, try these steps: 
1) set a default text of sans serif normal size
2) then draft an email - first a few lines of text, then some bullet-points, then more lines of non-bulleted text
3) then cut the last line in the draft message and paste it into the second line of the text before the bulleted list, as well as elsewhere throughout the message.
4) it'll all look fine in your gmail window, but when you copy/paste the entire draft message into a google docs doc it will show up with different formatting throughout (main problem is 10 sized font before the list, but 11-sized font in and after the bulleted list, as well as 11 sized font where you pasted those lines
5) send the email as is to an outlook recipient, and it'll also have the different formatting throughout - ie some size 10 and some size 11
6) if you correct it in google docs, and then paste it into gmail - it'll be fine (but the line spacing between google docs and gmail is not the same). 

Sometimes there are also issues with different coloured text appearing (ie making it look like some of the message has been copied form somewhere else), but the size 10/size 11 issue always seems to happen. 

Also, as mentioned, the line spacing in google docs and gmail seems to differ - ie when copying from gdocs to gmaill, an extra space is added.  

I hope this helps.  Any word re how this is going and when it might be fixed?

Cheers     
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Alanw2005 7/6/11 9:22 AM
I have been having this problem for 2 years now:

I use Google Apps for Business to host my business email. Google Apps though has a huge flaw that makes it's use for business pretty much unacceptable. The major issue with using Google Apps for your business email is the appearance of your Emails composed in Gmail's Web Interface, once they get to a recipient that uses an Outlook mail client.

When you compose and email in the Google Web client, it looks normal and consistent in terms of font size. However,When the recipient reads this email in outlook, the second sentence's font is 2pt BIGGER. When you send an email to a client with two different fonts sizes in it, it looks totally unprofessional. One point of note is that I do have a Rich Text signature set-up, at a font size NORMAL which is also the default text size for composing messages. My standard font is Georgia.

The font size looks consistent and all the same size when looking at the message in my sent folder from the Gmail web browser.

When I connected my PC  to my Gmail account using Outlook (Using IMAP protocol), enough it shows the fonts as different sizes.  However, looking at the email in the Gmail Web Interface, the fonts appear normal.

When a client replies to my emails that are sent from the Gmail web browser, you can see the different font sizes.

If I compose and send emails from my PC using Outlook connected to my Gmail account using IMAP, the font is consistent.

The problem is, I don't want to use Outlook. I want to use the web browser to send my emails.

90% of my clients are using Outlook for their email. When you use Google Apps web mail, your emails look unprofessional and like a 10 year old's ransom note. This is a joke.

This appears to be an issue with a bug with Google when composing rich text formatting over the web.  

I have had this problem for 2 years, and basically have to compose my emails from my PC using Outlook connected to my Gmail account.

The other work around I have found is that If I compose the email in the web browser, I have to select the whole email message, change the font size to small and then change it back to normal, then it reads properly on the recipients Outlook email client.

Obviously this is very inefficient and sometimes, when you are in a hurry, you forget to do this extra step. Your emails then look unprofessional and unacceptable on the clients end.

Other employees in my company refuse to use Google Apps for their email account until this issue is resolved.


I am using Windows Vista, and Google Chrome to access Gmail. Antivirus is NOD 32.
9:17 AM
I use Outlook 2003 and 2007 to access Gmail and work around this issue.
9:18 AM
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Alanw2005 7/6/11 9:25 AM
This is not an Outlook problem. It is a Google problem. Emails compiled in Outlook and sent through your Gmail account using IMAP appear fine on the recipient's computer.

This is totally unacceptable to use for business.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Alanw2005 7/6/11 9:27 AM
http://www.google.ca/support/forum/p/gmail/thread?tid=57b4cbc733ca5d73&hl=en&fid=57b4cbc733ca5d730004a768fa053f56
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 7/6/11 6:07 PM
I agree with everything Alanw2005 has said above. 
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 7/6/11 8:26 PM
Sarah, 
We've just noticed that even when simply responding to an email from an outlook user - ie just a simple all-text response without using bullets/lists etc - the first line (ie the "Hi Sarah" salutation) will be size 10, and the subsequent lines (ie the rest of the message) will be size 11.  Again very unprofessional in a business context.  

Again, if you prepare the response and then copy/paste it into a google docs document, you will see the "Hi Sarah" line appear smaller than the subsequent text. 

This means that, to send professional looking texts, we have to copy and paste every single draft message into a google docs doc, fix the formatting and copy it back into gmail before sending.  Obviously not ideal for a business! Alternatively, we would have to use the outlook environment via IMAP, which is something we're hoping to steer away (and steer others away) from.  

Although this isn't just confined to Google Apps (it looks like a gmail issue), is there a Google Apps forum or audience we should communicate with, as this is obviously an impediment for broader uptake of Google Apps by businesses, and maybe someone on the Google Apps side of the world might be able to help you address the issue with urgency. 

Regards




Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Cvulcan 7/11/11 9:14 AM
Our business is having the exact same issue as above, when I reply to an email in Google Apps business then bcc myself in outlook I see what my received would have seen and the first line look fine...

Hi Bob... (this line is normal)

It was nice meeting you today... (this line is twice as big as the first)

Signature (messed up everytime and inconsistent)

I want to dump outlook and move to Google for more and more but this is a deal breaker
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Sarah 7/11/11 6:08 PM
Thanks everyone for the additional information. We're continuing to look into the problem.

Best,
Sarah
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Alanw2005 7/13/11 8:38 AM
It is pretty obvious that the problem is caused by a fault in the default html coding of how your application on your server and the browser interact? Why does this take so long?

I can not endorse your product to the rest of my company or others with such a blatant and serious defect.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... nurikabe 7/18/11 11:57 AM
I stumbled across this thread as I am encountering the same problem.  Very frustrating.  It would be helpful if there was a way to define a default font face and size for outgoing emails.

I'm going to have to limit email composition to Outlook.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... annoyed w fonts 7/19/11 9:40 AM
Any word from Google? This whole Default text style issue is getting really annoying! What is the meaning of "Default" if it will just switch to whatever font it wants randomly? It looks really unprofessional when you send emails like this. 
Google please help!!!
 
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... dangermouse77777 7/19/11 5:50 PM
OK After spending a lot of time on this I have found something that has fixed my problem.

I re-enabled the 'Default Text Style' in Labs, and DISABLED the 'Signature Tweak'.

I then went back in and created a brand new signature, which I admit is not using the standard fonts, but a cut and paste from Google Docs, using the 'Lucida Sans' font, with a couple of blank lines at the top of it.

Now, I can type a new email and it doesn't change the font size on the first 'enter' press, and the text doesn't start to encroach on the signature. When I sent it, to an Outlook user, the first line and all subsequent lines are the same, Georgia 10 point, and the signature is exactly as I had created it.

So, for me anyway, problem fixed. BUT I would quite like to the use the signature tweak lab again, as it is a useful one for an inline signature. Will wait for now though.

Hope this helps somebody else too.

Mark

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 7/19/11 5:57 PM
Hi dangermouse77777, have you tried to create a message that contains bulleted lists?  See my post on 7/4/11 above re the steps that cause problems when using bulleted lists.  Would be interesting to see if you have been able to get that to work...
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... dangermouse77777 7/19/11 6:09 PM
Hi,

I just tried the bullet list and although it looks normal in gmail, the font skips up 1-2 point sizes when displaying in Outlook. Then the text after the bullet list is larger too. So it would mean that although the basic email creation seems to work, once you put bullets/numbered lists in, the HTML gets screwed up and affects the outcome in the recipients email.

Definitely still a problem there, although I must admit I don't use bullet lists very often.

Something to note however, is that when I tried a 'numbered list' the font of the numbers themselves was 'Arial', not the Georgia font that was my default and that everything else was in. Sometimes these tiny details are relevant.

Sorry mate, I was kind of hoping to report a working bullet list!! :-(

Just in case anybody is wondering, I have performed all my testing in Firefox/Chrome/Safari/IE as a matter of course, so please don't think this is browser/platform specific.

Mark

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... ArraNoble 7/20/11 4:48 AM
Interesting thread.

We were under the impression we were the only Google for Business users having this problem.  We have done some quite extensive research but have been unable to come up with a solution.  As a company we have stopped using the Default Text lab as it seems (although I haven't tested the bullets scenario) that if we turn off the Default Text lab, and change the font on a per email basis that the font/sizing holds.  I'll test this scenario with bullet points now and report back.

We have in the past had issues whereby we were losing the font sizing if we were to delete carriage returns.  So for example write a paragraph, press Enter three times and then backspace once - this would cause the fonts and sizing to change.  The email still looked fine in Gmail - but looked awful in Outlook.

However in the last week this appears to have been fixed (so something is definitely happening behind the scenes at Google) - but we are still unable to use the Default Text Styling.

We are still very nervous about this issue.  We need to be confident we are sending out emails to clients and customers (99% of which use Outlook) and the formatting looks good.  To present an unprofessional image to a customer due to a email formatting errors is not an option for us in our line of business.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Dev-Bert 7/20/11 7:14 AM
We are experiencing the same issues and it prevents our company from migrating to Google Apps for Business. Even with the above mentioned suggestions implemented to problems continue to exist. It would indeed be very helpful if this can be resolved.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... joemar9393 7/20/11 12:28 PM
oh my goodness - I don't even have the time to take away from my business to begin to investigate if this is an issue for me - but if it is an issue for me and other users who use gapps for business then i am near finished with google

i've already left google sites and google docs for a better website system after one year

i am contemplating switching back from chrome to IE after 2 yrs

and if this email issue is really as bad as people are saying here, then I will be dropping google apps/ gmail/ gcal/ android and say googdbye to google and never look back

this is just pathetic - the basic function of sending an email...google has to screw up
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Sarah 7/20/11 8:11 PM
Hi again,

Are you all using the Default Text Styling lab? Labs are experimental and sometimes they break. Do you see this problem if you turn off Default Text Styling? 

Best,
Sarah
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... dangermouse77777 7/20/11 8:42 PM
Hi Sarah,

Thank you for your interest in this.

Yes I certainly agree that the labs are experimental. And yes, I am using the default text style lab, however I have turned off the signature tweak lab.

The default text style lab is a very important feature for most people and I would presume that it will be included in the standard offering relatively soon.

Now, just as a test I have turned off the labs and am back to the standard setup. Then I performed 2 tests.

1. Send email with bullet lists

     Success! - It all works perfectly, formatted and looking nice.

2. Send email, then manually select the text and change it to Georgia - Normal.

     Fail! - The text 'does' change to Georgia at the recipient end, but the font size is all '12 point', thus looks like my sons homework!

Just as an addition note, I see people noting that they are 'going back to IE' etc etc, will unfortunately this is not browser specific. ALL of my tests are done on Safari/Firefox/Chrome/IE.

So, in summary, if we stick to the standard Arial font, and no default lab, no signature tweak lab, everything works perfectly. Just when you change the fonts, or throw a lab into the mix then it fails.

Regards,

Mark
(Google APAC Enterprise Partner)

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 7/20/11 8:43 PM
Hi Sarah

Yes, we have the lab enabled.  The problem does not happen when the lab is not enabled.  But, as mentioned in my original post (in the update): "we WANT to use the default text lab feature without this problem continuing.  A solution that involves using unformatted/plain text is not really what we're after...". 

Importantly, with the lab on, even a simple text-only reply, (of [Line 1], [followed by an enter], then [line 2]) will produce 2 lines of different sized text.  Try it!  It basically means the lab is useless if it can't be trusted to send a simple 2-line text-only response with consistent font size.  It should be withdrawn if this can't be fixed, don't you think?  

Again, these problems do not occur (for us) with the lab off, but with the lab off the emails look plain and dull to an outlook recipient (nowhere near as professional as outlook or other clients) - so that's a deterrent in itself. 

Sarah: is google working on a solution that will allow us to use the lab (or some other way to select our default font), or are we going to have to stick with gmail's default font setting if we want consistent sizes in our emails?  Also, any word re timeframes?  As others have mentioned, without the ability to select our own default font with confidence of a professional final product, it's hard to recommend using gmail/google apps for business emails.  

Thanks again for your help and communication though - and good luck finding a solution soon!

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Business Fundi 7/21/11 3:09 AM

Dear Sarah,

Can you please give us an update on when this issue will be solved?  Are we talking days, months or years?

I had trouble with mails showing up in Outlook in a variety of fonts and sizes WITH and WITHOUT the default text lab enabled.  I must say I am feeling quite frustrated that Gmail's users seem to be putting much more time into troubleshooting this problem than Gmail employees.  There has been a lot of detail on this thread alone.  I have trouble believing that Gmail employees are having difficulty replicating this problem, as we are struggling to send even 1 mail without the fonts going crazy.

My company is forcing me to stop using gmail for any work correspondence.  The owner of my company re-sent me today a mail I had sent from gmail to a very important client.  The fonts are all over the place – size and style.  I cannot argue with his comment that it is totally unprofessional and unacceptable. 

I cannot jeopardize our company’s reputation because I prefer gmail to outlook.  Please note that on the above email, I highlighted the entire mail, chose a font style and size before sending.  However, that did not solve the problem.

I am now out of options.  Fingers crossed and hoping you have some good news for us!

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... p.andrea 7/21/11 3:23 AM
I have the issue with Chrome but not with IE.

I agree it's unacceptable for a business to be forced to stick to the default style or not to be in control of email format.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 7/21/11 6:54 AM
Dear all
 
After reading p.andrea's post I decided to try using IE and IT WORKED!
 
I also decided to try Firefox and it sort of works. Interestingly, with firefox:
 - if I create a numbered list and then press 2 enters in a row to cancel the numbered list, then the text after the list unprofessionally reverts to different text (the text before the list is the default text style I've chosen in the lab - thus two different formats in the email).  BUT, it at least shows you that it's gone all funny as you draft it (so there's warning - remember: in chrome, there's no warning that the formatting is funny because it all looks fine unless you copy/paste into a google docs doc). 
 - however if I create a numbered list and then, instead of pressing 2 enters to cancel the list, I press the numbers button again, the formatting is all consistent.
 - BUT, in both cases, the actual numbers in the list are not the same font as my chosen default text.
 - so, it sort of works.
 
But, thankfully, in Internet Explorer:
 - it all works perfectly! Whether you cancel numbers using the button, or using two enters (which just makes it skip to another number), and whether you indent numbers to create sub-lists and create bulleted lists and sub-bullets - no matter what you do - IT WORKS PERFECTLY!! 
 - what's even better, is that even the numbers in the numbered list match the formatting of your chosen default style.  I tested by creating a purple comic default text in the default style lab and, using IE, even the numbers in the list came out in purple comic (even the previous interim solution of copy/pasting in google chrome didn't seem to get the numbers right). 
 - so, it's perfect with IE. Even with default text lab enabled. Seems we might have a temporary fix!
 
Dangermouse77777: have you tried IE lately? It might be worth a try...
 
It's a shame we can't continue to use chrome, but having to settle for IE until google sorts out the issue with chrome is not such a big deal.  At least there's print preview in IE...  
 
So, that's a temporary solution - but still hoping google can resolve soon.  Any word, Sarah?
 
Cheers to all
 
 
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Alanw2005 7/21/11 4:16 PM
When I use |E, the message is formatted in a size 10 font and my appended signature which is inserted automatically by GAPPs comes out in a size 12 font.

It looks really unprofessional. I can't believe that Google can't replicate this problem. Then again, I can't believe I am having this problem on a GAPPs product.

If you are thinking of using GAPP for web based email for your business, I would advise against it until this SERIOUS FLAW is fixed.

The person at Google handling this project should be fired. 
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... joemar9393 7/21/11 4:25 PM
no surprise it seems this is a chrome issue - chrome has been tango uniform for the last few weeks
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... dangermouse77777 7/21/11 4:59 PM
Hi,
Unfortunately I can report that it doesn't work correctly in IE. When using the labs the signature gets the larger point size, as does the varying layers of text, dependent on whether you choose the tweak or not.

The whole problem revolves around using the signature tweak lab WITH the default text style lab. Thats it really, plain and simple.

So, use the default text lab, turn off the sig tweak, et voila, you have an 'OK'ish solution. It's not browser specific as it is in the transmission component at the server end, not the creation on the client end.

Now, here's the important bit. The heading on the labs says 'CRAZY EXPERIMENTAL STUFF!' and also says 'May Change/Break etc at any time'.

So, we can't complain that the labs are not working. They are there to effect a Beta test of new features, not meant to be used in production environments.

Google does things very differently to Microsoft, (thankfully), and allows us to play with new features like this. So we just need to wait for the labs to be fixed up and moved into the production offering.

Hope this starts to clear this all up.

Mark

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... joemar9393 7/21/11 5:04 PM
so all we have to do is disable the tweak lab?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... dangermouse77777 7/21/11 5:17 PM
Basically yes, disable the signature tweak lab, put a few blank lines above your signature, and use the default text lab.

Then give it a try. Seems to work good and the fonts don't change size. They all stay at Georgia 10 point in my tests.

Mark

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... PerthTim 7/21/11 5:59 PM
I've disabled the Sig Tweak lab, set the Default Text (Sans Serif), and pasted a siggy in from a Google Doc (also Sans Serif) but still getting same issue with emails viewed in Outlook: (first line Normal, subsequent lines and signature in Large font.

One thing I've noticed is that when you Compose a new email, type the first para then press Enter the cursor moves to the next line (effectively the top of the signature) but does not insert a carriage return.  If you open the email in Outlook and view the source you can see this:

<font size="2"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">This is the first line.<br clear="all"></font></font><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Line 2.<br>

I'm no HTML expert but it seems to me the editor is not handling that first carriage return properly with regards to font formatting and not applying the full style to the signature.

It's happening for me in both Chrome and IE.  Given there are reports Firefox doesn't have this issue I would guess there's an issue with the editor in Chrome that has flowed into the ActiveX control Gmail uses in IE ... and maybe Firefox uses some other control.

Tim
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... PerthTim 7/21/11 6:05 PM
Sorry, correction, Signature part for me is in correct font, it's just the intermediate lines that are Large.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... hi-im_paul 7/21/11 6:51 PM
It's great to see that there are so many other users having this issue and the first response from a google representative. I use gapps and have been having all of the same issues for the last year. I too, can not recommend my organization deploy until it's been resolved.
 
I'm going back and forth with support right now and am hoping to be able to share a resolution soon. I've tried many variations of the above suggestions and options and haven't had repeatable success with anything. Sadly, I think the hair on the back of my neck raises every time I hit the enter key now.To be honest, I got tired of messing with everything and decided it wasn't my job to fix!
 
I can't believe this has been happening for so long without any attention or acknowledgement from Google, and hope the issue can resolved soon (before my deadline!)
 
Paul
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 7/21/11 10:36 PM
Dear all
 
It appears I spoke too soon - my "it all works perfectly" post (21 Jul 11 above) is wrong.
 
I was only trying out numbered lists and that seemed to work in IE, but even sending a simple, text only email is fraught with danger!  It has something to do with the automatic extra-enter that IE adds when you add a space after the first "Dear name" line.   When you start mucking around to get the spacing right, it becomes a game of Russian roulettte - sometimes it works, and sometimes ... BLAMO!! .... you're dead... (well, any hope of looking professional is dead...). 
 
Very disappointing that even a simple email cannot be sent with confidence that it won't look dull or absurd.
 
Sarah? You're our only hope now.  Any word? Be honest - should we start working with outlook again, or is a fix on its way (if so, are we looking at weeks, months or years)?  We're counting on you Sarah... :-) 
 
 
 
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SagiKoren 7/25/11 1:46 PM
I've found out about this issue about a year and a half ago. Since then, before I hit send, I select the entire message, select font, size and color again - just to be sure. 

Like PerthTim, I also looked into the HTML source long time ago and I saw that Gmail adds an unneccesary "Apple-style-span" tag that might cause the problem. Following up on this I also saw somewhere that this might be a Webkit bug that is still open - but I'm not sure.

Anyway, I'm glad someone from Google is finally monitoring this and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for an immediate solution.

Sagi

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... showmode 7/26/11 8:53 AM
I'm so pleased that I have stumbled upon this thread!!  For months I have been trying to find a solution to this godforsaken problem!  Although the solution doesn't appear to be here, I'm very pleased that I'm not alone in trying to find it!  Perhaps in hindsight I shouldn't have tried 'goggling' all this time to find it ;o)

Several months ago after deciding to use Google Apps we had to resort to using plain email formatting to get the font size in paragraphs to be consistent in all our emails.  But as a compromise all of our emails were mostly being displayed in 'Times New Roman' which is a comon setting in outlook for basic text.

In my mind it's totally unprofessional and unacceptable to find upon sending an email to an important client, you get a reply and discover your email (which looked perfect on the gmail web interface) was received with such inconsistencies and varying types of text.  They would be forgiven for thinking that you have sent an email by copying and pasting from a variety of sources! - Which again is totally unprofessional.

Given this is marketed as a 'business solution' this really needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency, certainly if we as a business are to remain customers of google.  

I'm afraid the mind does 'boogle' how a company that can do such marvels as photographing entire roads and buildings in a city and can build cars that drive themselves can't seem to get something as elementary as font formatting correct!!  Unfortunately the excuse that 'labs are experimental' really doesn't wash with me, especially as it's been there for years.  Given its part of a business solution - you would expect as a minimum requirement that you could send an email in your own chosen font...

I look forward to seeing if and when a solution is discovered and I hope it happens before we come round to renewing - as I don't particularly want to configure and migrate back to exchange!!

Chris

ps - forgive me if this note is displaying in arial size 14 - it appears the google text boxes are very deceptive!
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... joemar9393 7/26/11 10:16 AM
i for one will continue to use free business services of google (which really aren't free when you consider all the time away from the business their problems cause us) but I will NEVER pay for anything from google.

Not google apps, Not adwords, Not...

they are just too amateur and unreliable

but so glad they rolled out G+! oh wait, we can't setup a "business" profile for fear they will cancel not only G+ on it, but close the entire account altogether (been happening)
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... hi-im_paul 7/26/11 10:42 AM
Sarah,






How do we 

make this a bigger issue and bring it to Google's attention? I've been working with support and still haven't come up with any solution. Is there any other process I can initiate at this time?

Thanks,





Paul
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... jamieo 7/27/11 6:02 AM
Sarah,

I got zero response to this in a thread I created but perhaps this is related to the above-mentioned issues, so I am going to repost it here: 

I am using Chrome in Windows 7.

When I try to cut and paste a block of text from one gmail message to add to another message, often the text will not go where I want it to. Mostly, it goes to the  beginning of the message. For example, if I copied a piece of information from one gmail message and try to post it at the end of the third paragraph of another gmail message I am writing, it puts the text at the beginning of the email. If I try to highlight and drag/move it there, that also won't work - it stays at the beginning of the email.

This is a pretty basic function, cut and paste. Not sure why it's not working. 

This is quite frustrating. Any suggestion to stop this would be much appreciated. 

Thanks for your help.

Best, 

Jamie
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Sarah 7/29/11 2:18 PM
Hi everyone, thanks for the additional information. We are still discussing this problem and figuring out the best approach. I don't have an update at this time on when we might be able to fix it but I will keep you informed as I get more updates myself.

For the time being, it sounds like disabling Default Text Styling and/or Signature Tweaks has helped some folks, so be sure to try that as a workaround.

Best,
Sarah
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... kdogg81 8/2/11 11:11 AM
Sarah - This is really disappointing and unacceptable that you have not resolved this issue.

My company just moved to gmail as our standard email mgr.  We were on gmail for about 1 month.  After seeing my colleagues send multiple emails to potential clients that contained MANY Font size errors, I have informed everyone that we will no longer be using GOOGLE Gmail or APPS to run our business.  We just purchased the new Microsoft Office suite and will be using that for at least another 3-4 years, until someone else (Besides google) can come up with a solution to this problem with web based email programs.

So you just lost 10 customers....

The honeymoon with Google is coming to an end...Just look at this thread.

If you dont get this figured out, you guys are going to be dust in the wind.

Keven
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SnoiNZ 8/2/11 4:28 PM
Hi Google,

This situation is costing you business.  Have a look at http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/gmail/thread?fid=57b4cbc733ca5d730004a98d631f2e19&hl=en as well.

Very frustrating - time to ESCALATE this within Google??
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... jonathonc 8/3/11 4:22 PM
Yes, fixing this issue would be very very helpful. I do hope something is done soon.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... VSM-D 8/9/11 3:20 AM
Same here. It does not look good and sometimes creates confusion because readers think you deliberately wrote something in a bigger font........
Would be nice if a permanent simple and standard solution would be found.
Regards.
HvS.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Gotttwins 8/9/11 10:44 PM
 I've been sending unprofessional looking emails for 6 weeks now with my new job. Nice. I should have been using Outlook all along, but nooooo, I wanted to be cutting edge. Looking forward to the fix ASAP.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Grant Gochnauer 8/10/11 8:31 AM
I'm having this problem as well. Clients are asking why we are sending strange looking emails. /sigh


Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Mistermen 8/11/11 3:10 AM
I also have this problem. I use Gmail in Google Chrome, on Mac OS 10.6.7, I have conducted tests sending an email to friends and colleagues. If I type the entire content word-for-word into the compose-mail field, then it appears OK to recipients. However if I copy and paste any content - even if copied from an email written myself, the same font (sans serif), the same size (normal) - and even if I select all, and again make sure font and size are correctly set - it appears uniform in my browser, but appears with inconsistent font sizes in the recipients' windows.

Recipients' systems include Blackberry, Outlook on PC, even Gmail on Chrome on PC - all of them see inconsistent font sizes.

The only solution I have found is not to copy and paste ANYTHING - not a single word - when composing an email. So if you want to paste in a 500-word passage from another email or other source, you better start typing pronto. Thanks to this bug the age-old cut, copy and paste functions have been rendered useless - used at risk of making yourself look incompetent and unprofessional.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 8/16/11 10:09 PM
Hi Sarah, any update? 

Also, is there something you can do to prevent this thread from being "closed off"? You'll notice that all the other threads I linked-to in my original post (about this same issue) have been closed off without resolution, and it would be a shame to have that happen again now that this thread has developed some momentum...


Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SnoiNZ 8/16/11 10:29 PM
Here here!  This is stopping me from making Google Apps sales to corporates, unless the customer is willing to continue to licence and use Outlook.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... trotondo 8/17/11 6:56 AM
Still looking for a fix on this - highlighting the text and reselecting my font and font size has seemed to fix the problem for now, but obviously this is an annoying workaround that I would like to stop doing asap.  

Question to everyone following this thread - in addition to the issues with font sizes, has anyone noticed that, when replying to an e-mail thread and composing multiple paragraphs simply hitting enter to move down a line will move the cursor down but will not move the rest of the message (the thread you are replying to) down with it?  So I end up having to hit enter a few times just to get the spacing right because if i didn't, my reply message would start to overlap with the text below.  I noticed this happening at about the same time I noticed the font sizes changing.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Sarah 8/17/11 1:54 PM
Hi again, we're still discussing how to best address this problem and I don't have an update right now. A quick note that you can still format your text even when you have disabled Signature Tweaks and Default Text Styling. These are labs and we can't guarantee that labs will always work -- we call them experimental for a reason, and sometimes they break. However, we have been listening to your feedback about this feature and this issue and I'll let you know if I have any updates.

Best,
Sarah
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... JNT69 8/17/11 1:59 PM
Even when both of these labs are disabled the most disturbing thing is that I still have the problem when cut & pasting content from other emails into a fresh email.  This happens even when I highlight the full selection at the end and ensure the font / size / color is the same.

Unfortunately when sending emails to multiple clients it is pretty unavoidable to have to cut & paste content.  The only workaround I have found that someone mentioned on one of these threads is pasting the content into google docs...fixing formatting...then pasting it back into an email (which seems to work, although line spacing can still be bungled).
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SnoiNZ 8/17/11 3:38 PM
Sarah - thanks for keeping on this.  It's a commercial pain-point for Google so just has to get sorted.  Everything else is a real winner, and the improvements/fixes to the whole platform come thick/fast.  Won't be long and we'll have "Google-Certified-Information-Engineers" running around :)

In my experience this is an HTML issue, not restricted to Google.  Thunderbird does this, and even Outlook does it, but less often.
I think Outlook gets around it by using Word as the email editor (hence you can choose font sizes etc. instead of the limiting HMTL "small/normal/large/huge"), then when you hit send it renders the finished deal into HTML in one clean go.  Even the Outlook Editor does something similar.

** I just wonder if Google can't do an equivalent? **

Think about how THIS web page works - any of us can type in or paste in anything we like.  The font is all controlled by the page, which only accepts the raw txt and applies the font it wants to.  Now all the email client needs to do is strip the the text and font commands and separate them then re-render the body of the email.

I worked on a mail product once that had to insert a "barcode" (string of text) into the body of each sent and received message, and that proved very hard to do without breaking the html.  We did get it sorted though, and in "replies" were able to cleanly add our code in a tiny font like an unobtrusive signature, without breaking the formatting of the preceing emails, nor the body of the reply.  It CAN BE DONE :)
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... atom42 8/18/11 4:34 PM
The formatting issues we get from using GMail are now fairly critical. I was close to getting everyone to full make the move from Microsoft Outlook to Gmail, because of the great integration we can get with the other google products we use. 

However, having now seen a number of poorly formatted emails sent from Gmail to our clients, we're much more likely to move back from Google Apps and go with Microsoft 365 - which doesn't make us look like we've got formatting dyslexia. 

Shame really, as Google have clearly been trying hard to get companies like ours to make the move over. We did it, only to be let down by something as simple (yet critically important) as how our communications actually look to the recipient. 


Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... atom42 8/18/11 5:04 PM
Having just done some more research on this - I'm now not 100% sure where the problem lies. I know Outlook is a key email client, especially in the business world but the things I've just read might suggest that the problem actually lies there - rather than in Gmail. 

Apparently, Outlook uses Microsoft Word to render it's HTML emails, rather than opting to use a browser which would give much more standard, predictable formatting when rendered on other systems. 

I just don't know who to moan at about this - but I do know that considering what incredible things are being achieved in our digital world today - this really does feel like a problem which we shouldn't be suffering from.

Who ever can help, please do. 

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... elliottkimberly 8/18/11 5:11 PM
I just noticed today that my e-mails do not seem to be displaying properly when I copy and paste text from Word into G-mail. When the text doesn't look right, I select all and resize the font. When I send the message it looks normal. But I have gone through my Sent folder and seen messages where the font is too large in some areas, there are extra spaces between paragraphs that shouldn't be there, and some text is grey even though it was never, at any time, grey. Considering I have been using G-mail to apply for jobs, needless to say I am beyond PISSED OFF about this glitch. God knows how many unprofessional-looking e-mails I have unknowingly sent. I wonder how many opportunities your piece of shit product has cost me and others with this issue. To top it all off, I am using Chrome, Google's own browser. There should not be compatibility issues. What the hell is wrong with you people that you cannot fix this?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... caesar305 8/22/11 11:01 PM
I am having the same issue and cannot believe this issue is still occurring! I have seen posts from several years ago with the same issue. As a Google Apps Premier member, this is unacceptable. 

I have submitted a ticket and will update this discussion once I receive an answer.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Mistermen 8/23/11 6:30 AM
I have a solution, at least for my system. I was using Gmail on Chrome, on Apple. In spite of selecting all and setting the font size before sending emails, to the recipients they would appear to have mixed font sizes.

The solution - DON'T USE GOOGLE CHROME. If I use Firefox or Safari there seems to be no problem. However if I copy text from an email in Chrome, into another browser, then the same problem can occur. It seems that text copied from Gmail on Chrome contains some bug such that it will appear to recipients different to how it appears to the sender.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... caesar305 8/23/11 7:31 AM
@mistermen,

Unfortunately this solution did not yield the expected results. The same issues occurs no matter what browser I use.
Still waiting for a response from Google in regards to the ticket I submitted.


Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Sarah 8/23/11 11:37 AM
Hi everyone,

Just wanted to let you know that we're investigating cases of incorrect formatting when labs are disabled. I don't have an update on a solution right now, but I'll check in next week to let you know if I have any news.

Best,
Sarah
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... johnlittle-com 8/26/11 12:45 PM
I'm an attorney and use Google Apps for just about everything in my practice. I just discovered that one of my emails (that looked fine to me on my screen) was received by another attorney in several different font sizes. I do not have either Signature Tweaks and Default Text Styling enabled. I am *sickened* at the thought that emails I've been sending to my clients and other attorneys are being received this way. This is horrible.. absolutely horrible.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Business Fundi 8/27/11 4:39 AM
Sarah,
 
Can you please advise how we as customers can escalate this problem within Google/Gmail?  It is frequently the case that customers can get a faster reaction to a problem than internal employees.  Who can we contact within Google so that this issue can move a few steps higher on the list? 
 
I am perplexed how a critical issue with sending emails has not become a higher priority for Gmail, which is ONLY about emails.  It seems there is a lack of awareness by management about the importance of this issue to your customers.
 
Thank you for your assistance in helping us to escalate the issue within Google/Gmail.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... caesar305 8/28/11 3:57 PM
I finally received a response from Google, they said "they are aware of the issue however, they do not have an ETA on when a fix will be released".

Really Google? Not even a time frame? This Year? Next Year? It's been going on since 2009, I think its time to set a date.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Scott_Lithgow 8/30/11 7:18 AM
Agree with all the above.

The strange thing is even if I highlight all the text of the email and select a uniform font and size and then click send Outlook still displays any pasted text (even from a previous conversation of the same email) in a different font size.

This is not good enough for a product designed for business that you are charging us for!

Please let us know of workaround that we can use until you come up with a fix.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... HighAboveItAll 8/30/11 1:28 PM
I want to love google apps.  I use them all the time, and as a SW engineer I think they are beautifully integrated.  Heck I even have google stock!

But I can't stand these major problems with simple things like email fonts, calendar randomly not sending reminders and so on.  Google, you are better than this!  I know you are!

So please fix it so we can love it 100%!
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Scott_Lithgow 8/31/11 3:20 PM
Just heard from GurpaulG at Enterprise Support who tells me:

"are you guys making sure that you are using "plain text" and not html (so when you compose an email, make sure next to the tool bar it says "plain text" and not "html" as that can screw up your fonts"

This is not what we wanted to hear as using HTML for is generally the norm now and being told to use plain text seems like going back in time.

I have asked GurpaulG for clarification but at present Google enterprise support seem to be saying if you want to have a constant font size use plain text which has me checking out Microsoft 365 for our business.

Are their any Google reps who can clarify this?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... saulannett 8/31/11 4:08 PM
Experiencing all of the above problems! Extremely frustrated that important business contacts that I rely on for a living have been receiving completely unprofessional, and at times illegible, emails from my Gmail account.  Like many, I too fear I will be forced to reluctantly abandon Gmail if a fix can not be found. Google, I await your response.  This will become a huge issue if a fix can not be found quickly.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... atom42 8/31/11 4:19 PM
We're now realising how inconsistent the image pasting is too. Sometimes they appear in line, sometimes they're attached, other times they just disappear entirely.

Between this, and the formatting, I'm losing the will to Glive.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Joe Bland 9/5/11 8:38 PM
We have just started using Google Apps and made gmail on Chrome our email client.

This issue is extremely important to my business. 

I don't understand how Google could expect businesses to use an email client that does not properly support text formatting out of the box.

Google: forget about whether these features are in labs or not. Businesses need to be able to format their email consistently. Don't hide behind the 'it's in labs so it's experimental' line! The ability to format text is NOT experimental!

Fix this properly, and quickly, please!

I'm off to check out Office 365 now.
--
Tip: We have worked around the crazy size issue by leaving our labs on, but using soft returns (shift + enter) at the end of a para. Not ideal, and does nothing to address the other issues, but seems to work for sizing/font.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... HighAboveItAll 9/6/11 9:38 AM
Google, I have been telling my friends how great GMail is, but all along my sent emails looked almost childish and comical with different sized and extra-large fonts.  This is so embarrassing!  You might not think it's that critical but it is to us!  Please fix it soon!
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... trotondo 9/6/11 9:44 AM
It seems that the shift-enter workaround will do for now - but I think we are all looking for a more permanent fix.  Also -- I don't think everyone has this issue, I have a lot of friend on gmail and I spent a few minutes copying and pasting their emails into word to look for font changes.  None to be found - and none of them are using plain text as far as I can tell.  So either it doesn't happen to everyone and we are just really lucky -- or everyone uses shift-enter.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Nukino 9/6/11 11:47 AM
IMPORTANT AND WORSE I am finding these formatting issues using gmail and google docs. Just pasting between them causes massive and bizarre effects. Typefaces appear inconsistently and appear to be (and send as) much larger or smaller than the point size. Setting all typefaces to arial and 10 pt. will yield multiple fonts and type sizes. Between this and the way that docs stop working because the google servers freeze up makes google almost unusable. I switched to Chrome and all Google apps but this is also buggy I am giving up. One step forward and two steps back is no good.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Nukino 9/6/11 11:50 AM
PS - also annoying is the odd jumping when editing a pasted doc. The curser jumps around and will not be positioned where you want.It is awful. I usually have to go to word and give up on writing using gmail or docs. Mac 10.5. 8 and Chrome when it works(Chrome can't maintain an internet connection with google.)
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... fastoy3 9/6/11 9:47 PM
Incredible. For me (not trying to make a broad general statement) going back to Firefox from Chrome resolved this to my satisfaction. I'm convinced that this is a Chrome problem, not a Gmail problem.

I sure miss Chrome but will not tolerate the unprofessional e-mails that resulted from using Gmail, Chrome browser and Default Text Styling Labs feature.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Joe Bland 9/7/11 5:36 AM
I've now tested out my labs/signature set up and various formatting in Firefox and Opera, and it works fine there. Like others here, I really would prefer Chrome for my gmail, but formatting is a deal breaker. So ff is looking good right now.

Oh yeah, I also found a really neat desktop notifier for gmail: www.gmailnotifier.se, so I won't miss Chrome's pop up notifier.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... bex5 9/12/11 3:42 PM
Shift + enter seems to work, although I'm wondering if I'm going to be able to remember to do this every time I type an email.

Another tip that has helped me is to set the default text styling in Settings and once that is done, never, ever try to use the font/size buttons on the formatting bar that appears within a message. For some reason, the formatting bar just seems to throw everything out of whack. Though it would seem that selecting all of your email text and clicking "Normal" just before you send your message would be a good thing, I've found that it is the worst thing you can do.

Also FYI,  Gmail fonts appear about 2x bigger in Outlook. I've found that setting the font/size to Georgia/Normal appears the most professional. For signatures, the font appears about 3x bigger. So I use Garamound/Normal and, even though Garamound is a much smaller font than Georgia, they appear about the same size in Outlook.

Like everyone else, I'm hoping that Gmail fixes this soon...I'm tired of sending completely unreadable emails (no spaces, massive font size--which is what seems to happen every time I try to format the text using the formatting bar) to my colleagues.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... djBirch 9/16/11 4:52 PM
As a REALTOR I communicate with clients regularly and I truly represent my own brand and image so imagine my horror after discovering this font issue ... totally unacceptable!  Like many of you, I've spent a great deal of time and effort to set up my account with Google and have my email branded with my web name only to find I've been representing myself like an idiot all these months.  I'm sick to my stomach and feeling unsure of what to do next?  

Is there an easy way to make all my Gmail go through Outlook so I can prevent the ongoing format issues?  Any advise appreciated.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Alanw2005 9/16/11 11:53 PM
Birchj, set up Outlook to POP or IMAP your Google Apps email. Works great. 
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... fastoy3 9/18/11 7:01 PM
This is still broken in Chrome 14.0.835.163.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... dangermouse77777 9/20/11 10:23 PM
Hi All.

This has been bugging for a long time. And an an Enterprise Partner for Google I have made plenty of calls/emails etc.

I am rather pleased to report that as of this morning, everything is now working perfectly!

I did make one small change to the 'Settings' though. On the first page of setting, hiding down the bottom is an option to send all your messages with 'UTF-8' encoding. TURN THIS ON!!!!!

Do that, then use the default signature lab and the signature tweak and you will find everything is working exactly as you would expect it to.

Good luck, and let me know how you get on. :-)

Mark

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... andrewe2designlab 9/20/11 10:38 PM
Appears to work for me. sent a few email back and forth between yahoo and then reviewed in outlook. I also have the soft-enters (alt+enter) in my signature  which may still be help but not going to change it for fear that it will stop working. Thanks Dangermouse.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Alanw2005 9/20/11 11:53 PM
Dangermouse! This seems to work? And Google couldn't figure this out? What a joke. 
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Scott_Lithgow 9/21/11 12:22 AM
Hi This was suggested to me also by Support but is not consistent and therefore still unreliable.

 I also found issues with the handling of images especially when forwarding a message.

Which is another known bug Google is working on with no known fix date.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... fastoy3 9/21/11 6:22 AM
This didn't help me. I'm using Chrome. The first paragraph of text comes out in Times font and the rest are still in Arial.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... trotondo 9/21/11 8:18 AM
No help here either, also on Chrome.  The font is consistent but the size is not.  Soft enter seems to work.  Also, I have no issues on Firefox.  Or Safari.  So, i'm about 53 seconds away from dumping Chrome (by necessity) on my Mac and reverting back to Safari or Firefox.  Is this consistent with anyone else?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... cyber314 9/21/11 2:32 PM
I am having this problem sporadically on my Safari 5.1 gmail account. It doesn't matter what browser or device my gmails get sent to, my recipients are telling me the first line of text is small, followed by larger text. Sometimes there will be a space between lines of copy. I am using the Tahoma font. I disabled my signature and tried several peoples pieces of advice. I still have the problem. This is very disturbing, especially when you need to impress someone with a proper cover letter. Does Firefox really fix the issue?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SagiKoren 9/21/11 2:37 PM
Dear Google,

You're doing magic in all other places. You have 28,000 employees.

COME ON !!!!
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... dangermouse77777 9/21/11 4:24 PM
Update on the fix. I have tested this with Chrome as well and it works well. However it is commonly known that Firefox is the 'preferred' browser for all of the Google Apps suite, even inside Google.

So: Use Firefox, turn on Signature Tweak and Default Text Style Labs, turn on UTF-8 encoding in Settings.

Then you are good to go.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... joemar9393 9/21/11 4:32 PM
ugh, that is just not practical - google just needs to FIX IT

i've setup 2 separate chrome profiles (one for personal gmail and one for google apps business) that each share bookmarks, extensions, etc. with my netbook - absolutely can't spend countless hours trying to set all that up in a new browser system

FIX IT GOOGLE
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Skip_TML 9/23/11 3:05 PM
I could not ignore what I thought was happening any more, since our CEO emailed me "Why are you using all the different fonts?"

I, too, have been recommending Gmail and Chrome to people.  

Please, Google, it would be good to put a task force on this issue, broadcast weekly progress updates to those who are looking for a solution, or to the world at large, and just have a lot of the Google software engineers and human interface people use both Gmail and Outlook - like the world at large - and not stop till the two are compatible.


Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... comedygary 9/26/11 6:51 AM
An email created in gmail, then copied and pasted into a Compose Mail window, then sent to ANOTHER gmail account STILL HAS SCREWED UP FORMATTING when it arrives.
 
And the google staff has been taking how long to correct this really messed up aspect of their email?
 
I am currently trying to figure out another method of emailing to business associates and clients so that my emails don't look like they were composed by a third grader who didn't know how to use a return key.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... dwleong 9/27/11 10:40 AM
Hi, my company implemented Google Apps a couple of months ago and we have been struggling with this issue.  I'm the IT Director and a couple of weeks ago we had a meeting with our Google implementation partner (reseller of Google Apps) and three people from Google (alu...@google.com,
victor...@google.com, vj...@google.com) about this formatting issue.

The short version is this... Google engineers have acknowledged that there are formatting issues between Gmail and Outlook/Exchange.  Google told us that "their hands are tied" and since it is a Microsoft issue, they would not seriously consider taking any action unless "there was enough traction" from users. 

I recommend everyone on this thread yell out to your IT departments, Google contacts, post on other blogs, etc. etc. to let everyone know this is an important issue that Google needs to fix.  Microsoft has the majority of market share so they will not do anything.  It's up to Google to fix this, they should create a Lab for "Outlook compatibility".

Prior to this meeting, I was highly recommending Google Apps to other business contacts, but I'm thinking twice about this now after hearing Google's response to this issue.  It simply cannot be considered as a "business/enterprise" solution if it's difficult to consistently produce professional looking emails, period.  The majority of our users are now using Outlook to ensure important emails sent to clients do not have weird formatting issues (this has reduced the benefit's of using Google Apps and we have wasted a lot of time trying to find solutions to this issue).


Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SagiKoren 9/27/11 10:53 AM
dwleong,

It's weird that you're saying that it's a Microsoft issue since Google are they ones creating the HTML code for the email as you click on 'Send'. 
Is it that difficult to create a proper HTML without any leftover tags that mess up the formatting?

Weird....


Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... dwleong 9/27/11 11:08 AM
If you research this issue, you will find articles explaining that Microsoft changed their HTML rendering engine with the release of Outlook/Exchange 2007.  Microsoft's HTML rendering does not support current HTML standards, which causes the formatting issues when viewed in Outlook.  Here's one link about this issue:  http://www.email-standards.org/blog/entry/microsoft-to-ignore-web-standards/ (there are others).
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Advisor Elizabeth 9/27/11 11:17 AM
Hi dwleong,

Thanks for your posts and research into this issue. I am an Advisor in the Google Apps forum, and I just wanted to let everyone know we have recognized that this is there are formatting issues between Gmail and Outlook especially for our Enterprise customers. There are several separate issues here that potential have different root causes - copying and pasting text into Gmail, first line of text size, and actual size of signature are all reported problems. 

Many of these issues are related to the Signature Tweaks lab and the Default Text Styling lab. We recommend for the near future you turn off these labs to resolve some of the formatting issues. We definitely understand that some labs are very useful, but labs are experimental by nature so they are prone to more technical issues which are not supported. 

We are investigating though the issue to see what it will be possible for us to fix on our side. At this time we don't have an estimate or more specifics, but we are looking to see what we can do to improve the interoperability between these systems. Thanks to everyone for your patience on this. 

Thanks,
Elizabeth
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SagiKoren 9/27/11 11:28 AM
Hi dwleong and thanks for the reply.

The problem is with Outlook 2003 and I'm using regular Gmail (not enterprise). Here's a quick test I did minutes ago:

Wrote down some letters, pressed enter few times, backspace few times... that's it more or less. Didn't even paste from outside Gmail. 
That's the result I got (at least that's the code I see in Outlook 2003 when right-clicking -> view source... sorry for messing this reply with code :):

<div dir="ltr"><font color="#333399"><font size="2"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">hiudsa iuh fdisauf hisauf hdisa ufh</font></font></font><div><font color="#333399"><font size="2"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">fdhs afiusa hfiudh s ijh fdiusah \</font></font></font></div>

<div><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; "><br></span></div><div><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; "><br></span></div><div><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; ">lif dslakfj</span></div>

<div><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; "><br></span></div><div><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; "> hdsalj fhsa</span></div><div>

<font color="#333399"><font size="2"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></font></font></font></div><div><font color="#333399"><font size="2"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">fdksa fhkdjsa fhdsa</font></font></font></div>

<div><font color="#333399" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font color="#333399"><font size="2"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">fdskja gf<br clear="all"></font></font></font><div dir="ltr">

<div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#999999"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#999999">--</font></div><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#999999">Sagi</font></div>

</div><br>
</div></div>

Just paste the code here http://www.jmarshall.com/easy/html/testbed.html and you'll see my problem.

And Elizabeth, 
Thanks a lot for participating. Keeping my finger crossed that you'll solve this issue fast :)

-- Sagi


Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Duh.... 9/29/11 2:28 PM
I don't know if my problem is the same as the others here as I'm NOT dealing with Outlook issues but just in case.....

When I use Gmail, if I attempt to cut and paste, when I try to paste words, Gmail erases the preceding line. Other times, when I attempt to paste, Gmail will skip to an earlier line and insert the copy there.

I normally use Chrome as my browser but have tried Safari and the problem is the same.

Thanks for any and all assistance.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... fastoy3 9/29/11 6:36 PM
Perhaps there is more than one problem here. Like wwireless my problem is not exclusive to Outlook recipients.

I am a Google Apps (free) user running WIndows 7 with Firefox 3.6.23 and Chrome 14.0.835.186 with "Default Text Styling" and "Signature tweaks" and "Use Unicode (UTF-8) encoding for outgoing messages".

Here is a link to an image that I created.

http://imgur.com/F0FFS

The first set of text is the result of composing a message in Gmail under Firefox consisting of "Test 1", Enter, Enter, "Test 2", Enter, Enter, "Test 3". Next Ctrl+A and Ctrl+C. Then Ctrl+V into Word 2010.

Looks like you'd expect it to. Consistent fonts and spacing. I think the change in font of the link in the signature is from Word automatically formatting the hyperlink.

The second set of text resulted from composing a message in Gmail under Chrome and Ctrl+v the text from Firefox into it. Then copying and pasting into Word as above. Interesting that Chrome didn't render the text the same as Firefox did.

The third set of text is the result of composing a message in Gmail under Chrome consisting of "Test 1", Enter, Enter, "Test 2", Enter, Enter, "Test 3". Next Ctrl+A and Ctrl+C. Then Ctrl+V into Word 2010.

Notice that the first line is rendered by Word in Times New Roman, the default font in the default Word Style. I take it that Gmail/Chrome is not correctly tagging the font.

I believe this demonstrates a fundamental error in Gmail using Chrome regardless of whether the recipient uses Outlook or not.

I find it interesting that many of the contributors to this thread note that they perceive the same problem under Safari. I believe this supports my previous statement that this is not a Gmail problem but a Chrome problem, actually a WebKit problem as Chrome and Safari both use WebKit. Firefox uses Gecko.

Thoughts?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... MenInKilts 10/4/11 2:09 PM
Plus 1 for us on all of these font problems. Have been dealing with them for over 2 years now.

Just fyi: It is not just Default Text Styling and Signature Tweaks causing the issue. Even with those turned off Microsoft Outlook displays all font incorrect.

BONUS for Google: This also happens when we use Apple Mail to Microsoft Outlook. So we managed to get Apple Mail to work by ensuring our emails were being sent WITHOUT any font formatting. That would then allow Microsoft Outlook to format the email (usually in Times Roman and 12pt) on its side and it all looks same size, color and font.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... hi-im_paul 10/11/11 10:24 AM
Hi dwleong and all-

Here is a little traction... Just completed my order for 282 iPhone's (now that they are available on Sprint). This will allow our company to migrate from Blackberry, and we will no longer need Google Apps to fill the "non-proprietary void" between Blackberry/Microsoft and Apple (we also have ipads).

I have spent as much time with this issue as I have far more serious IT issues, and am astonished Google has failed so miserably to bring a product to market for business users.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... MrSMS 10/16/11 9:11 PM
Hi,

I have the same issue.

It is the same with normal Gmail.
Still screwed with out any of the labs disabled.

PLEASE GOOOGLE I don't want to be forced back to Outlook, but my colleagues are chastising me endlessly and I am being embarrassed by these shockingly formatted emails Gmail is sending out.

We NEED this fixed.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Joe Bland 10/16/11 9:28 PM
This is still an issue! Still, using Firefox seems to have fixed it.

Something I have been thinking about:

gmail/google apps
+ Easy to set up
+ Labels
+ Labs
+ Google tech cachet
- 7ishGB or 25GB storage/account
- Rubbish fomating
- $25/user/year

yahoo/small business
- Harder to set up
- No labels
- No Labs
- Yahoo tech suspicion
+ Unlimited storage
+ Nice formatting
+ Tabbed email
~ $120/year/10 users (confusing options, may be better value if you can figure out their offer.)

So, what's more important to you? The 'Old snakey' Lab, or unlimted storage and nice formatting?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... MrSMS 10/16/11 10:14 PM
I tried Firefox (after reading this thread) and the font issue (looking fine in GMAIL compose but being two or more different fonts in when viewed in Outlook) is still there. Firefox made no difference to me.

Looking forward to an update from Sarah as to where this is at.


Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... comedygary 10/18/11 9:37 AM
Although I think Google has many issues with lousy text formatting, the email issue was resolved for me when I got rid of 9 and went back to 8. When so many people are relying on Gmail as their primary business client, they really should test better before releasing. I'm sure at least a few clients think I don't know how to use a return key.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Advisor Elizabeth 10/18/11 5:05 PM
Hi, 

I'd like to provide a quick update on this issue. We are looking into the issue particularly for the issues with formatting that happen with copying and pasting in Gmail and how this is displayed in clients. 

If you are able to reproduce formatting issues without labs enabled please provide detailed steps to reproduce the issue including: Browser version used, whether the text included a copy and paste, and which client or browser displays the problem. If you are able to provide links to screenshots this is helpful. 

Thanks to those who have provided this type of info as it's helpful to us for understanding the variety of issues here better and what we can do from our side to help. 

Thanks,
Elizabeth
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Scott_Lithgow 10/18/11 10:48 PM
Hi Elizabeth,

Thanks for taking the time to ask the question but I am gobsmacked you asked it.

You must be able to recreate it your self and as a premium customer we have tickets where support have our examples (from 2010) and they say are working on a fix but you are asking for examples.

Sounds like you are not talking to each other or this is another delaying exercise.

Google apps has stood still in my view and with PC Pro issue 206 giving Office 365 a win in all 8 of its test categories over Google Apps it appears I am not alone.

Come on Google this problem has been evident from day one and here you are after 5 years plus saying please give us examples of pasted text not looking as per the style sheet.

My 10 year old daughter could recreate this issue on her Google Apps email address. It is such a basic thing. I know it is a format war between you and Microsoft over email formatting and Office 2010 makes it even worse for you but whilst Outlook is used by the vast majority of business so will you.

Either fix it or say you are not going to but please don't just go through the motions like this it's just patronizing.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... MrSMS 10/18/11 10:57 PM
Hi Elizabeth,

Thanks for addressing this.

I am working now to provide the examples / screen grabs to help illustrate the issue.


Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... MrSMS 10/18/11 11:55 PM
Hi Elizabeth.

Here are some screen grabs to get you started,






Hope they help.

None of these tests delve into the cut and pasting issue yet. They are just basic formatting issues.

;)


Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... ArraNoble 10/19/11 4:17 AM

Level 1
12:10 PM
Edit
 
Hi

I'd just like to put my findings into this discussion as well.

We have been Google Apps users for around 6 months, and the formatting issue has plagued us from the outset.  Our problem is two fold:

1)  If we DON'T use the Default Text Styling lab, the emails we create are ugly (I believe by default Times New Roman).  Since we are a Marketing/Research /Design company - presentation is everything and we can't send emails out to clients with the default font.  We don't have any issues with fonts and sizing changing if we DON'T use the labs.

Compose email in Gmail - http://min.us/lbeQ2nPwLtkqfn

How it looks in Outlook - http://min.us/l7UgfYw9uA62z

2)  If we DO use the Default Text Styling lab to change the font to something a little more readable/professional, we have the problem that Gmail 'forgets' what font and sizing we are using half way through the email and changes the font and sizing to something else.  This ALWAYS happens if we delete carriage returns, but can happen at other times as well.

Compose email in GMail with Default Styling - http://min.us/lwC50PPfRLqee

How it looks in Outlook with Default Styling - http://min.us/lyY4B4EaJC6b8

Our workaround at the moment is to NOT use the lab and ask users to compose the email and the manually highlight the text and change the font and size, and then send.  You can imagine the dismay of users having to do this for all emails, esp when coming from Outlook.  It certainly didn't help the sell of GoogleApps over Outlook.

These are basic issues that should not still be bothering us 5 yerrs after GMail was launched.

We use Google Chrome, version 14.0.835.202 m on Windows XP/Windows 7 platforms.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Joe Bland 10/19/11 3:54 PM
OK, this took an hour. How would you like me to address my invoice, Elizabeth?
Here are my screen shots. Note, that Yahoo Mail, as unfashionable as it is, performs better than Google Apps.
http://min.us/mbjjdkMBsf
Really, Google, with all your resources, you couldn't replicate this simple error in your program?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... RandyZhang 10/25/11 12:21 AM
Report exactly the same issue, very annoying. Looking forward to a fix/solution soon. 
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... MrSMS 10/25/11 1:32 AM
Elizabeth are we able to have an update on this issue now that Google has sufficient screen shots to understand and duplicate the issue?

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... nweil 10/31/11 2:49 PM
This happens to me all of the time, and it is not just with Outlook. I just tried to forward a beautiful-looking email in Gmail all formatted in Georgia with perfect spacing. When I now look at the email in the Sent folder, half of the email is in Georgia and the other half changed on its own to the standard font. Extra spacing has also been added between many of the lines and paragraphs. This was a very important business email, and I am mortified that the recipient will now receive such a strange looking message. Try it yourself and you will see what happens. I am hoping that Google will be able to fix this problem as soon as possible. Thank you very much.

Sincerely,
Nadine
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... MrSMS 11/1/11 2:21 PM
Hi,

Elizabeth can we please have an update on this issue?


Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Advisor Elizabeth 11/1/11 6:37 PM
Hello, 

Thanks to those who provided information. To be clear, we have done work on our end to reproduce the issue, but there are several root causes so it's helpful for us to get this information to be able to understand the variety of issues users are reporting and volume for each. 

We understand that many of our Google Apps users enjoy Gmail Labs and see them as important to their business. Despite this fact, labs are not a supported part of the product, and at this time we don't have plans to work on the formatting issues that occur with the labs turned on. 

We are actively working on some changes to Gmail for the issue of copying and pasting html text in Gmail resulting in mixed font sizes which occurs without labs turned on. We hope this will help resolve some of the issues on this thread. I will update this thread when I have more information on when these changes will be released. 

Thanks,

Elizabeth
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... atom42 11/1/11 11:46 PM
Well - I'm unsubscribing from this thread today, as I'm now an Office365 customer.

Good luck all.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Joe Bland 11/1/11 11:56 PM
Good on you, atom42!

Am I the only one who feels underwhelmed by Google's response to this, especially the 'we don't support Labs' thing? I mean, for goodness sake, why is default formatting a lab anyway? When will this innovative 'feature' be ready for everyone to enjoy? And the signature thing is just a fix for gmail silly signatures (after quoted text).

So now all they're working on is the copy and paste problem...
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... atom42 11/2/11 12:06 AM
Thanks Joe.

Just in case anyone is thinking of doing the same - let me point you in the direction of this software:

http://www.migrationwiz.com/

It made the transition for me really easy. Moving over the emails, calender, contacts etc, all automatically. Great customer service too. Unlike another company who I won't mention right now.





Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... ArraNoble 11/2/11 2:00 AM
Utterly ridiculous!

What other email client doesn't allow you to have a default email style?  I can't think of any other client I've ever used that doesn't provide this feature and thereby forces the user to format each email as you compose it.  

The fact a 'mature' 5 year old product (that is supposed to be cutting edge) that doesn't allow this is mind boggling.  What next - are you going to take spell check away, or only let us use half of the keyboard to compose emails?

I'm gob smacked at this response.


Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... showmode 11/2/11 2:08 AM
I second that ArraNoble.

What an awful, pitiful response from Google...  So we're just expected to continue paying for a sub-standard email system??

It's almost like ford saying 'wheels are experimental on our cars, so there's nothing they can do if they don't turn'.  What a joke.

Our renewal is up soon, so will have to go through all of the chaos of moving everything to another provider...  We will either go back to exchange (which at least worked flawlessly in the past, despite higher cost) or will look at Yahoo Business email which looks like a far more professional service that actually offers real customer support on the telephone.



Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Advisor Elizabeth 11/2/11 11:41 AM
Hello all, 

I'm sorry to hear the frustration I would like to clarify and note two things:

1) We do mention up front to customers that Gmail Labs are experimental and are not officially "released," they may change, break, or disappear at any time. We do graduate labs based on customer feedback and we will continue to do so and once graduated they are supported. Here's an example of labs we have graduated in the past: http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2011/05/3-labs-graduations-1-retirement.html. I will pass on the feedback that on the critical nature of these labs to the relevant teams for consideration. 

2) We do offer phone support for all paid versions of Google Apps. Please see our Support Options contact page for more information: http://www.google.com/support/a/bin/static.py?page=contacting_support.html

I understand that this may not be the answer everyone was looking for, but we want to be transparent on what we're working on and what we support. 

Thanks,

Elizabeth 

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... dwleong 11/2/11 11:41 AM
yes I agree too, Google's response has been EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTING!  i am a big fan of Google and pushed to move to Google Apps... but this is terrible.  i have a feeling the RIGHT people at Google are not seeing this thread.  if anyone has ideas on how we can give this thread more visibility, let's do it!  (i'm working on this).
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... dwleong 11/2/11 11:44 AM
Advisor Elizabeth, perhaps you should consider letting your boss know about all of this.  Your users are EXTREMELY unhappy and you are loosing customers over this!
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... joemar9393 11/2/11 11:48 AM
okay, elizabeth - so what labs do we have to have turned off to fix this issue?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Advisor Elizabeth 11/2/11 12:14 PM
@Joemar9393, Some of the issue reported on this thread are related to the Default Text Styling lab and the Signature Tweaks lab. There are other issues with copy and pasting text into Gmail which are reproducible without labs turned on which we are working on. 

Thanks, 
Elizabeth
 
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... MrSMS 11/2/11 5:08 PM
Two very important points.

1. The formatting errors do not only occur with the default font "lab" and signature "lab" enabled

2. WHY are these essential features (that ALL other email tools have) still "labs"

Everyone that says this thread needs more visibility are 100% correct, please post links to this thread on all your social media with a subject like "Use Gmail? Here is some important information about Google's support (or lack there of) of it"

Lastly, Elizabeth, you need to escalate this thread and have a senior product manager enter this thread and communicate with us.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Benski256 11/7/11 7:50 AM
Just to add my voice...  We've just received a flyer in the mail encouraging my business to use Google Apps.  So, first step is to test Gmail and the results aren't good.  The variable font sizes received in Outlook look sloppy and unprofessional.  For this reason, I cannot consider Google Apps.

So, that's another business customer ruled out until this is resolved, and it looks like this issue has been running a lonnnnng time.  For now at least, I'll have to give Google Apps a miss.  Love the idea, but the product needs a little polishing before it's sufficient for business use.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... LB86 11/8/11 2:49 PM
Dear Google,

LISTEN TO YOUR USERS!

I can't even begin to count the hours I have spent trying to solve this formatting problem.  I've read hundreds of discussion threads, copied and pasted until I'm blue in the face, and adjusted every setting imaginable, still to no avail.  This formatting problem is a joke.  As a jobseeker, I use my gmail account to send cover letters to employers- it's no wonder I'm still unemployed.  Gmail, not only have you frustrated the hell out of me, you make me look extremely unprofessional in all my correspondence.  The worst part:  I can't tell the travesty has occurred until after I hit send- the message appears normal in draft form!

Please resolve this issue.  For now, I'm setting up a new email account.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SagiKoren 11/8/11 3:04 PM
I'm amazed that this is not the main topic on large sites covering Google or technology in general. I mean, it must have an impact on hundreds of thousands of people (i'm talking about those who receive these funny looking emails as well).

Does anyone know a good website that would be interested in this unbelievable (not kidding here) story?
If you do, please send this thread/discussion over there. 

Maybe that way Google will finally put this under "high priority items - please take care ASAP".

- Sagi
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... trotondo 11/8/11 3:11 PM
Funny you mention that Sagi - I submitted this thread to lifehacker.com this afternoon (ti...@lifehacker.com) so they could possibly do a story on it.  Maybe that is the only thing that will wake Google up (and other users realize that there is a problem.) 

They have a lot of readers - they might not do a story with just my submission, but perhaps if everyone following this thread submitted it to the "tips" e-mail above we might get somewhere.  

I'm tempted to start using my newly incorporated .me address as my primary...
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SagiKoren 11/8/11 3:50 PM
Thanks trotondo!

I Just sent Lifehacker an email
I hope they'll take my mail seriously though... you know... with all the font issues :)

- Sagi
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... austinag1999 11/11/11 8:15 AM
+1
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Luc Slenders 11/13/11 3:43 PM
Dear,

I also have problems with text formatting in GoogleApps. The lab who's activating the default font, is working strange.

To work around the problem, I have expanded my email signature with the opening of my mail, for example:

"Dear,



signature "

In this way the text is immediately ready with the correct format.

I had to activate another lab, the "Signature tweaks" from "Keith C and Dave C" to let this work smoothly.

For me, it works fine... but, a parameter to set default font for a mailcient should be standard anyway... :-(

gr,
Luc
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... fastoy3 11/16/11 2:14 PM
@Luc Slenders

That was a clever idea but it didn't work for me when I pasted unformatted text into the middle of an e-mail created that way.

I am running "Default Text Styling" and "Signature tweaks" from Labs using Chrome 15.0.874.120.

My first test was to simply type 3 lines pressing Enter twice after each one.

Here's the result.

http://i.imgur.com/L5vMU.png

So far so good. It looks like it should.

Next I
typed the same 3 lines pressing Enter twice after each one. Then I pasted a line of unformated text between line one and two.

Here's the result.

http://i.imgur.com/VOYgO.png

There's the problem.
The point size of the pasted line is different.

Google, this isn't hard to recreate.

Finally I tried the process described by
Luc Slenders. I expanded my signature block and then INTO the signature block I typed the same 3 lines pressing Enter twice after each one. Then I pasted a line of unformated text between line one and two.

Here's the result.

http://i.imgur.com/bedjX.png

The font of the pasted line is different.

These exercises all worked perfectly on Firefox 3.6.23.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... showmode 11/19/11 3:17 AM
Interesting website which rates email standards among various providers: http://www.email-standards.org/.  

Surprise, surprise Gmail is rated as 'poor' - but I guess the blame will be down to 'labs' (or features that everyone seems to provide as standard).  Would be interesting to know what 'labs' have ever graduated to become standard features..

Interestingly this site lists the reasons why gmail is poor and the problems with the HTML/CSS mark-up when gmail composes and sends messages. 

But I'm assuming there is still no update on when these problems will be fixed google???
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... MrSMS 11/20/11 3:46 PM
GOOGLE

WHERE ARE SOME ANSWERS!!!!!!

I am CONTINUALLY being embarrassed by this problem and looking totally unprofessional in my email communications.

PLEASE give this issue the attention it deserves.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... alexander.kirchhof 12/1/11 3:31 AM
I only can add my vote to this thread.
Everything is said, so what else should I add?
I'm using FF8 on MacOS 10.6, but it has nothing got to do with the lab functions, UTF8, the browser or the OS.
It's in the HTML-Code, there are unexpectedly jumping formatting instructions with HTML-Tags font size and font face even when typing fresh text in to a mail.
The workarounds are no help, this is no way to work with a central tool.
Turning of formatting would be my favorite, but I can't do this because I can't turn of the automatic line breaks in plain text mails.
When I write a mail HTML-mail with no formatting, I expect a mail with no formatting instructions.
Period.
How can this be ignored so stubbornly?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Janakaa 12/2/11 8:38 AM
Hi,
We have exactly the same problems and frustrations with Gmail formatting, all the stuff that everybody here has mentioned. This is such a huge blocker in moving across, it has delayed us by a whole year!!!! 

We have tried to go down the support route but it is clear that Google are not too keen on sorting this out for what ever reason - at least in support. If all of us are experiencing this surely it cannot be that difficult for Google replicate it if they wanted to.

Hope some serious improvements come it this area. A better plugin system that allows third parties to develop lab type add-ons would be the best approach . If that facility existed somebody who have developed a solution for this problem and other nice integrations.

Hope Google sort this at some point.

Cheers
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... MrSMS 12/6/11 1:06 AM
G O O G L E !

DON"T BE EVIL

FOR ****'s SAKE LOOK INTO THIS PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!

WE NEED A SOLUTION NOW!

YOU ARE BEING EVIL BY LETTING THIS SOMEWHAT TRIVIAL PROBLEM RUIN THE LIVES OF YOUR LOYAL CUSTOMERS


Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... tjvandenheuvel 12/7/11 1:02 PM
I believe I have narrowed down the issue running several test myself.

I can offer a work-a-round, but do not know how to solve the overall issue.

Also, it has nothing to do with the Labs or whether you are on IE, FireFox or Chrome.

It has everything to do with Rich Text and Simple Text.

What happens when we type messages and your using the more preferred Rich Text mode, Gmail periodically saves a our messages to drafts while we are still composing it. Anything that is copied & pasted within this message (Rich Text mode) after it has been saved (by Google to Drafts), it alters the text formatting which we see correctly, but someone in Outlook sees the pasted text in a reformatted type size and/or color.

Same is true if you copy and paste a draft message to a new message. Again, it will all look fine to you, but the recipient in Outlook (maybe others email clients) sees a weird formatted message.

The obvious non preferred option is when composing a new message to change the Rich Format to the Simple Text format. That's a real pain! And you loose features when using Simple Text like adding photos, pic's or company logo signatures.

Or NEVER copy & paste in a message you are composing.

But to work around it, you can learn to turn Simple Text and Rich Text ON & OFF when you wish to format as you like plus add photos, pic's and a company logo signature.

Yes, a reall pain in the .....

So Google TEAM, can you HELP,.......that is if I am correct to where the issue can be found............in Simple Text and Rich Text when SAVED/Drafts and any copying and pasting. It's not Lab's or any of the Internet browsers used.

PLEASE :-)

 
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... MenInKilts 12/7/11 3:23 PM
I can +1tjvandenheuvel and his comments. I also have found that it has nothing to do with Labs, but all to do with formatting of the text. Forget setting Tahoma 10pt as the auto signature font, because it will show up something smaller, bigger, wrong colors at times. 
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... FlyTrap 12/8/11 8:05 AM
+1 from me too. I have been trying to convince the small company I work for to switch to Google Apps mail for well over a year now. However, I could not defend the poor presentation of Gmails in Outlook, and this week I was ordered to return to the dark side as my emails were consistently looking unprofessional to clients (95%+ still use Outlook).

I understand that the Outlook HTML rendering engine is poor, hence the problems, but I think Google are going to have to adapt to fit it if they are going to make any impact on the business users market. Microsoft aren't going to do anything about this if it means potentially losing customers to Google.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... tjvandenheuvel 12/8/11 8:20 AM
I agree,......it is more than likely a MS Outlook deficiency HOWEVER it is up to GOOGLE TO FIX IT it if they want to convert more of the business masses using MS Outlook as an email client.

My boss who remains on MS Outlook is totally turned off to Gmail for the simple fact he knows he gets emails from me that are not formatted correctly and they look unprofessional. No matter how much I convince him of better features and benefits,......he will not get past this issue Gmail has when sending to MS Outlook recipients. 

Again, Google HELP us please!
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Warr3n 12/8/11 8:33 AM
This issue is my biggest complaint with Google Apps and I have been aware of the problem since we switched in January 2010.

Come on Google - sort it out!
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... ArraNoble 12/8/11 8:37 AM
Totally agree with Warr3n, this is an issue that is definitely the biggest single problem with Gmail.  Fix this - and you are onto a winner.

I've spoken to a few companies that were trialling Google Apps but have decided against it for the single reason of awful formatting of emails.  

Please fix it!!!  We will do with out the new themes and layouts, put your resources into making it usable first Google!

 
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... trotondo 12/8/11 9:06 AM
Im not sure the issue is limited to outlook...I've been CCing my .me email address on what I send out via gmail and I get the same BS formatting issues on the Mac mail client.

Fix this.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... MrSMS 12/21/11 6:09 AM
Ok.

I have found a REALLY simple way to see this issue. 

Compose a mail in Gmail, then use the "Tt" icon to change the text size to "Normal". It looks the "Normal" size right?

Now send it to someone with Outlook, ask them to send you a screen grab of it back.

You'll see the font comes through in a very large size - the same awkward size we see when gmail screws up the composition after a cut and paste.

PLEASE fix this Google !  It is killing me.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... MrSMS 12/21/11 6:14 AM
How can we get Google back interested in this issue?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Joe Bland 12/21/11 1:54 PM
I realised that not everything that Google does is the best in it's class. In fact in every product they provide there are credible alternatives that could be better.

Google is an advertising sales company that uses internet assets to create advertising opportunities. Some of those assets are great, but there are limits to Google's interest in the assets, because the ads are their main game, and there are a lot of assets.

So with that view of Google, it might be best to just leave them to their ad business, and find a product more dedicated to business level email.

Gmail is great in many ways. What a pity.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... dangermouse77777 12/22/11 5:12 PM
OK,

Having been having this issue in varying degrees over the last few months, I decided to dedicate the morning to looking at exactly where the problem lies. It turns out that the answer is incredibly simple! What is happening here is that the HTML encoded by gmail is NOT including sizing details in its font selections, and therefore the other mail clients are left to interpret this as they please. I can show this by offering the following examples of the HTML outputs for different messages, so bear with me whilst I explain.

Something to remember first of all is that Outlook interprets the 'default font and size', when you don't specify one, as Times New Roman, 12 point. Whereas Google's default font and size when you don't specify is 'Arial/Helvetica' in 10 point. And this is where the whole problem is.

Example 1 - Send an email from a newly created generic gmail account and view in outlook. Looks fine, because the default font in Outlook is actually relatively small.

Hi,<div><br></div><div>Testing a generic email account in gmail into outlook.</div><div><br></div><div>Mark</div><div><br></div>

Example 2 - Send an email from a generic gmail account and make a font selection. Notice the font change in the HTML, but no sizing tags.

<font color="#000000"><font><font face="times new roman,serif">Hi,</font></font></font><div><font color="#000000"><font><font face="times new roman,serif"><br></font></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font><font face="times new roman,serif">This is a test with fonts selected. Serif/Normal.</font></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font><font face="times new roman,serif"><br></font></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><font><font face="times new roman,serif">Mark</font></font></font></div>

Example 3 - Send an email, changing the font into Tahoma. This also has no size tag, which means Outlook will interpret as 12 point. Which in Outlook world is huge!

<font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif">Hi,</font><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif">This is now in Tahoma, with Normal size selected.</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif">Mark</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><br></font></div>

Example 4 - Send an email and change both the font and the size in the body of the email. Notice again that there is no actual 'point size' definition, but instead a 'size' tag, leaving the third party client to interpret as it wishes.

Hi,<div><br></div><div>This is a test for changing <font class="Apple-style-span" size="4">font sizes</font> and <font class="Apple-style-span" face="tahoma, sans-serif">fonts mid way</font> through an email</div><div><br></div><div>Mark</div><div><br></div>

So, what does all this mean, well firstly the way that Google can fix the problem is simply to enforce the encoding of font size tags in their HTML, and make their default 10 point instead of 12 point!

Secondly, for us as users, I found that by choosing a font that is displayed in both GMail and Outlook in an appropriate way in Point Size 12, then it is certainly workable. This font selection in GMail is simply, 'Serif - Normal'.

Something that is important is that the problem only shows up more when using Default Text Styling and Signature Tweak, is that they force the embedding of fonts etc into the HTML, so the inbound client interprets these as best it can, but with the absence of a point size font tag it is anybodies guess how this will eventually render.

Don't stop using the tweaks and default style, just use Serif-Normal and things should be workable.

I hope this helps some people out there. Let me know if you have any other experiences that are different to these.

I should mention that I am a Google Enterprise Architect in Sydney Australia, working on cloud migration projects for companies who are moving into Google Apps, so this particular issue is very close to my heart.

As a final word on this huge response, GOOGLE! - ADD A FONT POINT SIZE TAG IN YOUR HTML. THIS WILL FIX IT FOR EVERYBODY!

Regards,

Mark


Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... fastethanfelson 12/28/11 10:28 AM
Any progress on this?  I am a personal and enterprise Apps user, and am amazed Google has yet to add simple html font options, like actually adding Arial to the font list and point-based size options instead of "normal" or "large."
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... tjvandenheuvel 12/28/11 11:18 AM
This is TJ and I have previously offered comments about 5 or 6 messages up.

I now have my Gmail system working properly and have texted it for a few weeks now by sending myself messages and opening them in MS Outlook. Again, previously all messages came across with reformatted different size text.

But no more and here is the settings that achieved this.

Go to your Gmail Settings or "wrench" in the upper right corner.

Go to labs and "Disable" Default Text Styling. Note, I do have Signature Tweaks "Enabled".

Sign out and sign back in.

Again, go to Gmail Settings.

Go to the General tab all the way to the upper left.

Scroll down to Outgoing Message Encoding

Select Unicode (UTF-8) encoding for outgoing messages rather than Use Default text encoding for outgoing messages.

This setting keeps all my messages when received by an MS Outlook recipient all consistent. It may not be the Font or size I want, but it is all the same even if I copy and paste text from other programs.

I hope this helps you too as my boss literally wanted me to STOP using Gmail, but I was successfully able to clean it up by doing the process above. TJ 
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... tjvandenheuvel 12/28/11 11:19 AM
I meant to say "testing" not "texting" in my response above........sorry. TJ
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Sarah 12/28/11 2:20 PM
Hi everyone, thanks for your patience. I understand that you are still seeing a different default font size between Gmail and Outlook; specifically, dangermouse77777, I understand what you are saying about using styles rather than font tags, and I've passed your feedback to the team, but I don't know at this stage whether we will be able to make the change you requested.

In the meantime, we've made some corrections to address some of the other issues raised in this thread. Previously, some of you were seeing the font size change in the middle of a sentence or paragraph. Is anyone still seeing this behavior? Please let me know.

Thanks,
Sarah
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... kasper76 12/31/11 8:40 AM
Hi, It's not only dangermouse - I think everyone who is sending a mail to an outlook account and have made custom signature and font size have the problem eith large fonts.

Me inclusive :-(
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... fastoy3 12/31/11 10:06 AM
@Sarah

Thanks for the update and that there's progress being made. I feel like the community surrounding this has put a lot of effort into helping Google understand the problem and even suggesting corrective measures.

We look forward into 2012 for continued progress and updates on this topic.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... joemar9393 1/2/12 8:16 PM
what "progress is being made"? she basically said screw off we are going to keep formatting emails the way we want

I love how she calls it the "change you requested" as if it's adding cream to coffee - no this is big stuff and makes professionals looks like amateurs - fix it google - just fix it
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Warr3n 1/3/12 3:21 AM
Sarah 

I am still experiencing the same issues. I have exchanged emails with a client this morning and whilst the body of text appears fine when I view in sent, when he replied the font for the message had increased a couple of points however my signature was unchanged. Happy to forward screenshots to you if it helps.

My default font is Sans Serif and I have the lab enabled so my signature appears at the end of each of my emails.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Warr3n 1/3/12 3:25 AM
Forgot to mention I am using Chrome Canary on Windows XP - I will switch to my Chromebook later today and see if I experience the same issues.

This is not a new issue - we migrated to Google Apps in January 2010 - would be great to get this finally resolved!
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Sarah 1/3/12 6:17 PM
Hi again, we're continuing to look at whether it's feasible to change our encoding from font sizes to font points or pixels. As you've noticed, the problem is that font size "2" means something different depending on your browser and email client. Although we are consistently encoding the font size, it may appear as 10pt font in your browser, but 12pt font in some email clients, depending on how the software interprets size "2." We are listening to your feedback and evaluating the suggestion to change the way we encode font sizes, but I can't make any promises at this time about whether it will be possible for us to make this change.

There were a number of other issues in this thread, including the font size changing abruptly in the middle of a sentence or paragraph, and we did correct this issue. Is anyone still experiencing this problem? If you are still seeing the font size change within a paragraph, please let me know ASAP.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... tjvandenheuvel 1/3/12 7:00 PM
Hi Sarah, this is TJ and I have been a past complainer regarding the topic of abrupt font size changes when recipients viewed my emails specifically in MS Outlook. However, not sure whether it was something you guys/gals did on your end or something I did on my end, but it appears to have cleared itself up as I continually email myself and periodically open MS Outlook to make sure its still looking. I just checked it again looking at several email threads and ones where I know I copied/pasted  within them,........and all is ok.

I no longer have "Default Text Styling" enabled in Labs and I no longer place our company logo or photo in my Signature in the General Tab. I simply typed in my signature and used the default selections, saved this, signed out and restarted Gmail.

However, I do still have Signature Tweaks enabled.

I will tell you that MS Outlook interprets the Gmail block font over to something like a Times Roman, but I can live with the complete message stays all the same size.

Can you tell me if Google did something to fix this or was it the settings I did?

Thanks for listening. TJ
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... MenInKilts 1/3/12 8:09 PM
Hi Sarah,

Yes we are still having the issue. Due to the unprofessionalism of the font issue, our franchise corporation has just recently had to switch from using Google Apps to Microsoft Outlook for email clients. 

If you would like I am more than happy to send you emails from our accounts, that end up formatting very poorly in MS Outlook:

- Wrong font sizes
- Random small and large font sizes in middle of emails
- Wrong colors of our html email signature text

Let me know how I can help. Thanks for helping.

Brent
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... JNT69 1/4/12 6:28 AM
Wanted to throw out a solution that may help many people, while still a bit inconvenient.  When sending client emails I now draft them in Google Docs in the verdana 11 that is my firm standard....when done I simply copy & paste the email over into my gmail and insert my wisestamp html signature.  This seems near perfect in that it has never resulted in the random font size issues I had been having frequently.  I have still had some frustrating cut and pate issues with this from time to time however---if someone drafts and email for me to send...and then I copy into Google Docs and edit the email there...then paste back into gmail reformatted, sometimes the original text is fine and the text I added or modified is highlighted in a different color.  This is not evident in Docs or in the Gmail so I am not sure what the solution is to re-shade/eliminate shading so that there is zero risk of this happening.  

The main problem, among others, is obviously that this becomes a pain to do for subsequent responses and internal emails, etc...but an added benefit is that you end up creating a repository in Google Docs of email templates to use for various client purposes
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... EmilyChristi 1/6/12 8:41 AM
My manager reprimanded me because of this! He thought I was writing emails sloppy. He was forwarded an email I sent to a client that had several different font types and sizes. I had to pull up my original email and print it to prove to him that was not how I had typed it. Thanks a lot google! You made me look very unprofessional and embarrassed the day lights of me! Imagine if I would have gotten fired because of this. You would of had a big problem on your hands. The thing that makes me mad the most is that you have had knowledge of this problem since before July 2011, yet it still exists and no solution has been implemented. The most alarming part is that I have probably sent hundreds of emails out like this being unaware of the problem.

This is not acceptable!
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... alexander.kirchhof 1/6/12 2:24 PM
The first mail with this problem in my sended messages folder is dated from 2011-07-27 and the html part begins

<quote>
--005045015b0dbfd17204a90168aa
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<font size=3D"2"><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Hallo Markus,<br=
><br>der Link in dem Beispiel stammt von hier:<br><a href=3D"http://ecampus=
.klisch.net/?p=3D451">http://ecampus.klisch.net/?p=3D451</a><br><br>D.h. </=
font></font><font size=3D"2"><font face=3D"arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><a h=
ref=3D"http://ecampus.klisch.net">ecampus.klisch.net</a> </font></font>verw=
eist noch auf fabdba.<br>
</quote>

It has got nothing to do with the charset or the encoding.
The problem are indeed the unexpected and unwanted inserted font definitions wich you don't recognize and can't prevent in the gmail interface.
What changed in Juli 2011?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... fastoy3 1/6/12 7:10 PM
@alexander.kirchhof

Good catch. What syntax was used prior to July 2011 to specify the font size?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Ben1971 1/6/12 7:34 PM
I HAVE BEEN SENDING MY OPINIONS EVERY DAY. I HATE THE NEW GMAIL. THAT IS ALL I CAN SAY. THE SPACEY WHITED OUT SCREEN IS ENOUGH TO CAUSE A SEIZURE. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE OLD GMAIL? I ONLY USE GMAIL BECAUSE THE OLD INTERFACE IS PERFECT, CLEAN, EASY TO FOLLOW, ETC. THE NEW GMAIL IS MY WORST NIGHTMARE. PLEASE RETURN THE OLD GMAIL FOR GOODNESS SAKES!!!! WHY WOULD GOOGLE MAKE THAT STUFF??? IT IS TERRIBLE. IT IS HARD TO READ, AND HARD ON THE EYES. IT IS DRIVING ME NUTS, AND I DO NOT WANT TO LEAVE GMAIL SIMPLY BECAUSE I HATE THE INTERFACE. WHOEVER CAN PASS THIS ON TO GOOGLE, PLEASE DO SO. I HAVE ADDED MY OPINION EVERY SINGLE DAY. AND IT KEEPS ASKING FOR MY OPINION AGAIN AND AGAIN. AND I JUST WISH GOOGLE WOULD LEAVE AN OPTION FOR THOSE WHO LOVE THE OLD INTERFACE, WHICH IS CLEAN, PEACEFUL, EASY TO READ, ORGANIZED, QUICK TO FOLLOW, ETC. WHAT WILL IT TAKE?? DO WE NEED TO PAY MONEY? I WILL PAY MONEY EVERY MONTH, IF I CAN KEEP THE OLD INTERFACE. THE NEW ONE IS SUCH AN EYESORE, IT BOGGLES MY MIND WHY GOOGLE WOULD EVEN OFFER IT. BRING THE OLD INTERFACE BACK, PLEASE!!!!!
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Sarah 1/9/12 1:40 PM
Thanks everyone -- EmilyRutgers, I'm sorry for the trouble and we believe we recently corrected the problem with the font suddenly changing in the middle of a sentence or paragraph. Could you please let me know if this behavior is still occurring for new messages that you are sending?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Sarah 1/9/12 1:42 PM
Also Brent -- you mentioned that you have recently been using Outlook to send messages, could you confirm that new messages (e.g. sent today) appear in Outlook with mixed fonts? There is a separate issue that the font may appear larger in Outlook than it does in Gmail ("wrong font sizes"), however we believe we corrected the problem with the font size changing in the middle of a message.

As for colors, is it an issue with gray text? We're looking into a similar problem.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 1/9/12 5:16 PM
Hi Sarah

Thanks for the ongoing efforts.

Today, using chrome, I typed a few lines, then pressed enter, then pressed the 'bulleted list' button (ie to create a bulleted list).  I then typed a few lines in a bulleted list, then more text in the following lines.

Unfortunately, the first few lines (ie before the bulleted list) were in Tahoma 10, but then the items in the bulleted list, as well as all subsequent lines, were Tahoma 12.  Worryingly, in the gmail message, they all looked the same (ie NO WARNING that the font size had changed).  Also, I copied some of the text from the last few lines (which were 'secretly' size 12) and pasted them into the first few lines (size 10) and the pasted text was now size 12, amongst the size 10 original text.

Basically, we cannot create lists without the font size secretly changing.

Try it: you don't even need to send to outlook.  Just draft a message, then copy/paste into a google document to see the magical font changes that, although showing up in google docs, don't show up in gmail.  If only we could set google docs as our gmail email editor... 

Also, if you do the exact same thing in Firefox, there's no problem (ie all text same size).  What is Firefox doing that Google can't figure out?

Thanks again.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Sarah 1/9/12 5:33 PM
Thanks SH105, I'll pass that long. Are you only seeing this behavior for lists, or for normal paragraphs too?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 1/9/12 5:42 PM
Hi Sarah

If, using Chrome, I open a message, type a sentence or two and send (ie no bulleted or numbered lists), then it is usually ok.  However if, as is more realistic and common, I type an email where I go back over the text to add new lines and copy/paste things from one part to the other as part of the editing process, it's Russian roulette - there'll usually be different fonts and font sizes in the final product (again, with NO WARNING in chrome).  To confirm, the problem occurs even if no bulleted/numbered lists are used.

Again, it happens less often in Firefox and, when it does happen in Firefox, it is at least visible (you can SEE, in Firefox, that things look different).

If I draft an email in google docs and paste it in, then everything is ok.  Unfortunately, that's obviously an unsustainable practice, especially when responding to emails.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... fastoy3 1/9/12 7:12 PM
@Sarah

Like SH105 I believe this is a Chrome problem. I have been trying to get Gideon Wald to engage in this problem. Perhaps you can reach out to him.

Months ago I submitted these 2 posts:

9/7/11

Incredible. For me (not trying to make a broad general statement) going back to Firefox from Chrome resolved this to my satisfaction. I'm convinced that this is a Chrome problem, not a Gmail problem.

I sure miss Chrome but will not tolerate the unprofessional e-mails that resulted from using Gmail, Chrome browser and Default Text Styling Labs feature.


9/29/11

Perhaps there is more than one problem here. Like wwireless my problem is not exclusive to Outlook recipients.

I am a Google Apps (free) user running WIndows 7 with Firefox 3.6.23 and Chrome 14.0.835.186 with "Default Text Styling" and "Signature tweaks" and "Use Unicode (UTF-8) encoding for outgoing messages".

Here is a link to an image that I created.


The first set of text is the result of composing a message in Gmail under Firefox consisting of "Test 1", Enter, Enter, "Test 2", Enter, Enter, "Test 3". Next Ctrl+A and Ctrl+C. Then Ctrl+V into Word 2010.

Looks like you'd expect it to. Consistent fonts and spacing. I think the change in font of the link in the signature is from Word automatically formatting the hyperlink.

The second set of text resulted from composing a message in Gmail under Chrome and Ctrl+v the text from Firefox into it. Then copying and pasting into Word as above. Interesting that Chrome didn't render the text the same as Firefox did.

The third set of text is the result of composing a message in Gmail under Chrome consisting of "Test 1", Enter, Enter, "Test 2", Enter, Enter, "Test 3". Next Ctrl+A and Ctrl+C. Then Ctrl+V into Word 2010.

Notice that the first line is rendered by Word in Times New Roman, the default font in the default Word Style. I take it that Gmail/Chrome is not correctly tagging the font.

I believe this demonstrates a fundamental error in Gmail using Chrome regardless of whether the recipient uses Outlook or not.

I find it interesting that many of the contributors to this thread note that they perceive the same problem under Safari. I believe this supports my previous statement that this is not a Gmail problem but a Chrome problem, actually a WebKit problem as Chrome and Safari both use WebKit. Firefox uses Gecko.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Warr3n 1/10/12 12:02 AM
I am experiencing exactly the same issues as described above.

We use canned responses extensively and many include bullet points. I have noticed that when people using Outlook reply to me then the font from my outgoing email resembles a ransom note as opposed to a professional email!!

Our default font is Sans serif and we use signature tweaks in labs. One sentence will appear in times new roman the next in Sans serif and the next another font twice the size. The seems more of an issue with email recipients using an older version of Outlook (which is the majority in my industry!). 

It's interesting to hear that switching to firefox may resolve this issue - however I haven't got that option on my Chromebook!
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... fastoy3 1/21/12 6:06 AM
The activity on this thread dried up on January 10, 2012. What gives?  Has this problem been fixed for everyone?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Warr3n 1/23/12 1:11 AM
No - it's still an issue - would be good to get an update as to when this is likely to be resolved.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... dwleong 1/23/12 12:26 PM
Everyone on this thread, I was told by another Google employee we should ALL open a support case here:

http://support.google.com/a/bin/static.py?hl=en&page=contacting_support.html

If we all do this, it will help to elevate this issue at Google... still hoping to see a solution ASAP!!!!
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... zahidaligeo 1/24/12 10:11 PM
Dear All,

Thanks to all for putting their efforts. I do face this but feeling little sorry for Sarah's "Tech Support". 
After a heavy work around in two days, I am able to find solution and would like to share with you all.

Main problem: The only main problems is "Normal" font size in gmail appears "12 Font" in outlook (whatever font style you use)

Solution: Actually, gmail rich text doe'st properly translate font size to outlook. So don't do gmail text formatting using gmail toolbar/ button.

1. Just open google doc and make following type draft with your own formatting requirements.

"Dear Mr. Xyz,


Regards,

Zahid Ali"

2. Copy and past (by Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V) into "signature" setting of your gmail (like below) and save.

3. In all your mail, you need to write/ past text in between "Mr. Xyz", and "Regards,"

You will find same mail appearance in outlook as you see in gmail.


Regards to all,

Zahid Ali



Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Janaka_a 1/25/12 5:37 AM
Still exists for us, and a significant blocker. We have pushed the rest of the company on by sticking crappy Outlook as the front end. But the Google Sync tool isn't perfect either. At least allows us to switch off our Exchange box. 

Although I admit that leaving users on Outlook was an easier transition for users we need to move users on to the Web interface in order to properly leverage all the features and promote full adoption across the company. 

The one major thing stopping us from planning this push is this damn Outlook formatting issue!

As such any updates from Google on this? Do you even acknowledge this is an issue? Any news would help keep spirits up and give everybody on this thread hope!
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... fastoy3 1/25/12 7:19 AM
@zahidaligeo

Thanks for the tip and I'm trying it now.

However it's a shame that such a workaround has to be used to fix a problem that has been well documented (and technical fixes proposed) for so long.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... zahidaligeo 1/26/12 4:13 AM
Dear fastoy3,

Please keep in mind (while trying me tip), when setting your signature in gmail (as said above), don't leave space between "Dear Xyz" and "Regards". By this way, when you type your mail, gmail will take existing "signature" font format (not the gmail font). Keep in mind, if you paste in gmail from outside, it will take gmail "Normal" that is 12 font in outlook.


Dear gmail team,

There is no doubt that gmail is the best on web and there is no match of gmail, presently. But this issue is making us "unprofessional" mailer in the eyes of "outlook - the outdated"). I suggest, if you can please add font size button in gmail formating toolbar instead of just "Normal, Small, Large etc. so that it will insert standard (html) font sizes to communicate to other mail clients. Please note that it is not only outlook, but gmail is also sending "unwanted 12 Font" to "Thunderbird".

We all appreciate you in advance...gmail

Regards to all.

Zahid
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... aquadoll 1/27/12 9:27 AM
Put in another vote for this problem. I use Trebuchet normal size in gmail compose window, which looks like size 11, but when I receive it and open in Thunderbird, or when I copy the tesxt from compose window to a google doc, it shows up as Trebuchet size 12. Something is definitely wrong, and has been bothering me for almost 2 years now. Finally decided to look up this problem and hit this thread.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... bakerstreet 1/30/12 12:59 PM
I have just found out my outgoing mail is doing the same thing - huge, random fonts. 
 
Makes my correspondence look ridiculous. 
 
Shame on Goodle for not sorting this out yet.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... fastoy3 1/30/12 1:04 PM
@bakerstreet

What browser are you using? Are you using any Labs features in Gmail?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... bakerstreet 1/30/12 1:42 PM
browser = IE8
I had never heard of 'Labs'.  I am a long-term user but a very simple one.  Gmail has changed so much since I opened an account in 2007, it keeps adding stuff and setting defaults I know absolutely nothing about.  I hated the 'conversation view' which was imposed on us a while back (thank you to the users who applied pressure to make it optional) and I'm really not liking the 'new look' at all (why is 'optional' such a problem?).
 
Anyway, back to the issue of random, huge fonts.
Thanks to your answer I have now discovered that section of my settings and I see 'Default Text Styling' is set to 'enable'. 
Guessing from your comment that this might be related to the font problem, I have now set it to 'disable'.
Do you think this will solve the problem?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... fastoy3 1/30/12 2:49 PM
@bakerstreet

People find different things that help. I'm using Google's Chrome. I have 'Default Text Styling' set to 'disable' but "Signature tweaks" set to 'enable." This gives me an ugly Serif font but in my case it is a consistent size.

I had no noticeable problem with fonts when I was using Firefox 3.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... bakerstreet 1/30/12 3:52 PM
fastoy3 - very many thanks for taking the time to offer advice.  I will also enable 'Signature tweaks' in the hope it improves matters.
 
I think it's a disgrace so much user time has been wasted on this problem.  As the provider, the onus is on Google to provide a solution but they seemed to have dragged their heels and dodged the issue for months - why?
 
And why is this thread marked "ANSWERED", when the matter is still outstanding??  Not impressed, at all.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... fastoy3 1/30/12 4:31 PM
@bakerstreet

Don't be too quick to turn on "Signature tweaks." Some people have reported that this worsens their situation.

It seems this problems depends on a number of factors which include the browser (and probably even browser version), "Default Text Styling," "Signature tweaks," as well as behavior, e.g. copy and paste. Bullets and numbered lists also wreak havoc with some.

I think an earlier poster (dangermouse77777 on 12/22/11) nailed it. Gmail doesn't use explicit html constructs in their rich text. In the absence of explicit constructs different e-mail clients, e.g. Outlook, render the Gmail text differently.

It really seems fairly easy to fix but there hasn't been any progress evident from Google/Gmail.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... alexander.kirchhof 1/31/12 7:04 AM
> Gmail doesn't use explicit html constructs in their rich text.
Which would be a good approach in principle.

IF it would be consistent and not mixed with unexpectedly jumping font sizes you cant see while editing in gmail online.

AND IF the user would have the choice whether he wants explicit fonts and sizes in his mail or not.

AND IF gmail would support a optional setting format=flowed for plain text mails if the user wants to send mails without any formatting AND an acceptable text flow INSTEAD of the dump and inescapable hard line wrapping after 78 characters.
(And: Yes, I know this is in compliance with the old RFCs depending on 80 column terminal windows …)

This all is a problem of the principles of the gmail web interface and not of the OSs or the browsers.
Nobody understands, why google is too incompetent to fix this.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 2/16/12 4:39 PM
Hi Sarah
Any update re this?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Warr3n 2/16/12 11:57 PM
An update would be appreciated as I am still experiencing the same issues.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Johnny Alpha 2/17/12 12:19 AM
These cut and paste issues are just another issue that make GMail almost unusable for business and at the least unfriendly for personal use. I've switched most of my personal mail back to hotmail, I which I could switch my office mail. I really don't know why companies persist.

This Purple text issue is probably the most absurd. Why should this need a lab?? Why not just have an editing option to choose the colour that's used when text is pasted by default?

It's black where you copy it from! It's still black when you paste it! It's black while you're editing it ... then you click send and it turns multi coloured.

I feel forced to keep a notepad doc on the desktop. It's called Gmail cut n paste.txt. I Cut and paste the email content into the text doc edit it in the text do  then paste it all back into gmail ... How absurd and time wasting is that!?  

It's seriously embarrassing when I occasionally forget to do this. Completely unprofessional.

Thanks to the OP for posting all the thread links I was just doing the same myself when I found this. I simply can't believe how long people have been complaining ... all those threads closed for further comments with no answer AND STILL Google have done nothing !!!!
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... goldpicasa 2/17/12 1:26 AM

Good afternoon.

I wrote about that issue to company management, copying the executives. Did that a few months ago and no reply. I also contacted big google business apps seller, who was not aware about the issue, couldn't do anything as well.

Google doesn't realize they are on the ticking bomb. They are running advertises to make companies to move to google aps, and we are the ones who did, only to realize a year after that a lot of mails were received in the spam fonts. That topic looks like they are not solving it on purpose or something and their mission Don't be evill is a lot under question.

The only solution I see is to get us to that issue publicity not only here, but other web-sites, forums, blogs, etc. As soon as you search in google "experience google apps" and the answer will be don't do it, support is awful, they can not solve the fonts issue for 2 years, than some branded newspaper will print an article that famous google products are not good any more, than the shares prices will drop and then they will must to fix it.

 

A few issues I had recently using google - google voice, they had some updates, and new one simply is not installing on pc, where it was working before, on the android outside of USA looks like a joke, picasa (confusion with google+, redirect to google+ is absolute insane, no normal embedding option), gmail (fonts, migrating from gmail to google apps), youtube (massively slow on low power PCs, xxx ads inside of video, that you can not report. Yesterday smbd sent a suicide video that you can not report properly).

Unfortunately that topic shows google is not listening any more, they are driven only by money and shares prices.

This is I guess logical by the finance obligations they took for the company.

PS: Used Chrome to write that message, there was no option to spell check, used office for it and copying back chrome lost the formatting completely! 

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Sarah 2/17/12 12:02 PM
Hey everyone, I want to provide a few clarifications:

- Johnny Alpha, your recipient does not see the text in purple. The purple coloring is only for your view of the message to show you which text had already appeared in the thread. Sorry for the confusion here.

- We have made a number of improvements and you should no longer see fonts change size within a sentence or paragraph. If you do, please upgrade to the latest version of Google Chrome if you use that browser, and please disable your labs:

- Labs are experimental and may break. Sometimes we deprecate and remove labs. When we have decided to fully support a lab, it graduates and becomes a regular feature in Gmail. Until that time, I recommend that you do not use labs if you prefer a more stable experience. You can disable labs for your Gmail account here:

We've discussed the suggestions you posted in this thread regarding handling of font size, thank you for sharing those. I don't have an update right now but we're continuing to keep those suggestions in mind.

Best,
Sarah

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... cmoir 2/19/12 8:07 AM
I really do not understand what is going on at Google, but it's staggering, truly awe-inspiring that something so basic as having WYSIWYG email text that works across industry-standard emails systems, still doesn't work.

And after last week's update not only does it not work still, but is now worse than it was before. Now test using alternative fonts comes out way too small. This is what it looks like in Gmail (Chrome).

The body in plain Arial, the sig is in Trebuchet (web safe) font in blue.  This font now appear much smaller than it did last week (too small to be used). This is the supposed 'Normal' size.
 (I'm hoping these embedded picture URLs come through)
-----------------------

image
---------------------

So you can see the body is plain Arial and sig in too-small Trebuchet

and this is what it looks like in Outlook:
image

As you can hopefully see;
a) The body text that is Arial in Gmail comes out in Times in Outlook. (A quick glance at the actual HTML produced shows why - there is no font defined). Remember this is supposed a RTE, supposed to provide a range of fonts, and yet even the base font is not done right.
b) The signature, which is now too small in Gmail (it was fine last week), is now huge in Outlook.

So basically all text in this email is wrong.  What is the point of providing a RichTextEditor if nothing, I mean no text at all, comes out the intended size?

As others have comments again and again, for years, this makes anyone sending email from Gmail look un-professional. It's what stops us adopting Gmail in our company.

Is Gmail ever going to work with industry standards or not?

I would point out that Hotmail works perfectly. All fonts, at all sizes, appears exactly as it does when you compose in all email viewers including Outlook AND Gmail and even iPhone (which also doesn't work correctly with Gmail) . So if they can do it, why can't Google?

So I hope you can continue to look into this and, one of these days, provide a fix.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... cmoir 2/19/12 8:10 AM
OK so those inline pics got removed. Perhaps the image URLs will not:
Picture of how text looks in Gmail:
Picture of how text appears in Outlook:
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 2/19/12 3:44 PM
Sarah, when you say we "should no longer see fonts change size within a sentence or paragraph", does this include when we use bulleted/numbered lists? Ie, will the text before the list, in the list, and after the list all be the same size?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Iris 2/21/12 5:54 PM
cmoir, I'm sorry you're still experiencing formatting issues. As Sarah mentioned, we made several improvements, but we are still working on the Arial in Gmail to Times New Roman in Outlook issue you mentioned. 

Regarding the signature issue you're experiencing, could you clarify the following for me to make sure I'm understanding what you're seeing? In Gmail's web interface, your Trebuchet font signature is appearing in a size smaller than 'Normal,' even in the 'Signature' section of your 'General' Settings tab, and within the Gmail web interface's message view. However, when the signature shows up on a message in Outlook, the Trebuchet font size displays much larger than 'Normal' size. Could you let me know what version of Google Chrome you were using when sending the affected too large signature messages in question? Have you noticed this behavior when using other browsers to send messages via Gmail? Also, do you have the 'Signature tweaks' or 'Default text styling' labs enabled in the 'Labs' tab of your Gmail Settings? These additional details will help with figuring out the issue, so thanks in advance for taking the time to send them.

SH105, yes, font size changes should no longer be occurring with bulleted or numbered lists (and thank you very much for your detailed post about the specific steps you took to recreate the font sizing issue!). As Sarah mentioned above, please make sure to update to the latest version of Google Chrome (Chrome 17) which should fix the number and bulleted list problem. Please let me know if you see otherwise.

Thanks,
Iris
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... aquadoll 2/22/12 1:14 PM
Regarding the seconds point above from Iris, I ahve seen the font size changing issue in not just signatures, but the main email body as well. I use Firefox exclusively, and using Trebuchet normal size while composing an email, the font looks a size bigger when I read that email in a client like Thunderbird. Using most recent version of FF (10.0.2), and the mentioned labs are not enabled. Hope this helps.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... ariel001 2/23/12 8:42 AM

I'm not sure why an email looking unprofessional to those who use Outlook is a problem, since Google does not feel it’s even a problem to have an unprofessional look in Google Apps itself. Those who use Google to receive their mail don’t see wrong font sizes or colors in signatures; they just don’t see signatures at all. Would the rest of you agree that both faulty and hidden signatures are problems to business users like us?

Here are a couple related forum links with unacceptable answers:

http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/gmail/thread?tid=6656f7086a21211a&hl=en

http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/gmail/thread?tid=02d4eb577e7626c3&hl=en

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... nicknickster 2/28/12 4:24 AM
PLEASE could you sort this Google.  I want to be a paying customer of yours but this is stopping me.

I have been planning to migrate our company from Outlook for months.  Did the free trial of Google Apps for Business last month.  I liked what I saw and paid my subscription for 35 users, and have set up all the new accounts, filters and forwarding that we need and was planning to migrate this week.  However i just tried sending an email from Gmail to my old Outlook machine and it is awful.

Everything looks great on Gmail but terrible when it arrives on Outlook and most of our customers (like most of the world) will use Outlook so I have to be confident that our emails look professional on arrival

After much playing around and reading tips on this forum, I don't use the signature tweak but i do use the default font lab (that is essential).  However the fonts display in Outlook 2 point sizes larger than they were sent in from Gmail and they just look childish. (With default text lab switched off the emails send in Arial and arrive in Outlook in Times New Roman in an acceptable size but rubbish font).

Looks like I am going to have to go back to the drawing board and cancel Google Apps and maybe try again later or give Office360 a go.  VERY FRUSTRATING given it must be so easy for Google to resolve this.

GOOGLE - any news on whether or when you will be sorting this so i can decide whether to cancel my subscription or not?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 2/29/12 7:05 PM
Hi Iris

Thanks for following up.  It looks like the font sizes are now the same when lists are used (a positive step) BUT the size of the text is too large at the recipient's end.  I've set text at "normal" size and it comes through to an outlook user as size 12 - this is larger than the font size in all other emails the recipient will usually receive from others, thus making my messages look a little weird.  Also, if I set size to "small", it comes through as 7.5. So, it's either 7.5 or 12, when emails are usually in 10, so it looks odd.

So, remaining important issues:

1) Is gmail planning to use numbers (eg size 10, 11, 12 etc) instead of vague concepts like 'small' and 'large' to indicate the size of the font?  It seems to make more sense that way - allowing control over the professional appearance of the message.

2) Also, if the text size is changed, the size of the actual numbers (in the numbered list) doesn't change.  Ie: the numbers to the left of the list are say size 12, and the text in the list is 7.5.  This of course looks ridiculous.  Is gmail planning to address this?

Many thanks

(unknown) 2/29/12 7:19 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Iris 3/13/12 5:01 PM
Hi everyone,

Thanks for your recent detailed posts about what you're seeing in Gmail vs. what is being seen in mail clients like Outlook or Thunderbird. As mentioned by Sarah and Advisor Elizabeth above, we're reading your posts and listening to the issues you're bringing up. Most of the recent posts are around the font size differences that you see when comparing a message you've sent in Gmail and how the font size appears larger in a mail client like Outlook. We're still looking into this, and I want to thank you for your continued patience and understanding. I'll post additional updates if I have any, but thanks for continuing to post your details and feedback.

Iris
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... nukualofa 3/27/12 3:26 AM
Unfortunately I have just been forced by my boss to start using Outlook again. Since he thinks all the font / spacing and font-size changes are very unprofessional.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... muppeteer 3/30/12 3:17 AM
Hi all,

I've been doing a bit of research on this and here is what I have found out. Outlook uses the default 'Web Options' as defined in Word (see http://www.msoutlook.info/question/521) to render text in Outlook. The default setting here is Times 12pt which is why emails with no font defined will appear in 12pt Times. If 'Normal' size is set in Gmail no font size is actually defined in the HTML, thus 12pt is used when the email is viewed in Outlook. Thus if Verdana/Arial are set using 'Normal' font size, a user in Outlook will see the right font but in 12pt.

The solution to this problem is to set 'Normal' to define a font size in the output. I would also suggest that actual point sizes are used (8/10/12/14) rather than small/normal/large/huge as Normal to one user is not Normal to someone else and is thus ambiguous. This is why every other text editor in use today uses point sizes.

I hope this helps.

Richard

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... slider1969 4/10/12 4:09 PM
I'm also having spacing issues... This is also the norm right?? I send it all nicely spaced, and forward from Gmail and there seems to be an extra line in throughout the doc... Thanks for all the tips everyone!!
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Purple Shark 4/23/12 3:33 PM
Thank you!!!  This is driving me NUTS!  I don't like Arial, I want Times Roman and I can get it at the beginning of the email, but if I cut-and-paste anything into the message, everything after it reverts back to Arial.  In what Gmail seems to think is "Normal" size.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Pepitas 4/24/12 12:05 PM
Hi,

I don't know if that was mentioned before, but I copied part of an e-mail that I had written on Gmail and sent to someone, pasted it on Gmail, and sent it to myself (just to see whether the formatting would stay unchanged, before sending it to a recruiter). There was not much formatting (no lists, and I was working on plain text), but the e-mail appears narrower that the first time I had sent it: each line in the paragraph goes to the next line when they are halfway through.

Thanks for looking into that and letting me know when it is fixed.

Cheers.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SimonRim 4/30/12 1:39 PM
I'm also having this frustration.

I have a formatted email I have saved as a canned message.

When I use the canned message the line spacing / line breaks tend to get munged up.

With additional line breaks being added or even removed. (I'd guess there are residual codes being left behind in the background after changing font sizes)

Font sizes can change to large fonts too.

In some cases I've seen a list of items using line breaks (didn't want to use an ordered list)

+ Item1
+ Item2
+ + Item2a

etc

Loses the line breaks.

Just my input and would welcome a solution.

Also would be nice to have HTML view or be able to paste html code.  Or is that a security restriction. Of course I want it for the right reasons.

Thanks

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... LUNGSTEN 5/25/12 4:48 AM
Hi,

Any update on this?

Our organisation are looking at switching to Office365 if we can't find a fix to this.

Point-sizing seems the obvious and logical way to go, although I imagine this change will have to go before committee.  

Any chance of rolling this out as a lab first and foremost?

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... lahouidek 5/30/12 4:49 AM
Has gmail found a solution, this is costing me business as well as my company's reputation. Come on google you can do better then this
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Pauld121 5/30/12 9:33 AM
Hello,

I've been reading this thread having recently moved our company's email from Outlook to Google Apps for Business. It wasn't until a prospective client took exception to an email I sent him, that I realised there was a serious problem.

His email back to me (when we were confirming a first meeting) effectively ruled us out - saying that if we could send such a poor looking email we didn't deserve to get their business. Yes, the email had all of the hallmarks of the formatting horrors cited above.

Since we're in the business of copywriting and document creation, although unhappy, I can empathise with his point of view.

Unfortunately I had no idea how bad the emails we were sending looked in Outlook. I now know and its not pretty.

The conversation I had yesterday with a support person on the Google Apps telephone support line would indicate that they are as good as in denial that this is an issue, so I don't feel very confident that this is being taken seriously. I'm open to be convinced otherwise.
 
Months appear to have lapsed yet still these formattimg issues persist. So can I enquire as to where Google are in resolving this issue? And by that I would like a timescale (sorely missing from the dialogue thus far) - this will allow us to decide if we should now cut our losses and move on.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... adityakhoche 5/31/12 3:35 AM
I had faced this problem with gmail couple of times while mailing to companies when the email body looked completely different than how I had originally sent it.

I disabled the default formatting of the mail and usually now use the default fonts for gmail text editor. for bullets i usually copy the text into another text editor like notepad and then paste into the gmail body. I then use the default gmail bullets (all default options and absolutely no modifications).

I've not faced formatting issues with these settings, and the emails sent via gmail onto outlook usually show up with times new roman as the default font.

but the emails sent this way at least appear uniform in their formatting on other email editors. I still wish the emails sent through gmail would have better formatting.

Preetamkumar 6/7/12 4:58 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Give me a break 6/14/12 5:43 PM
Google, are you even listening?  Bug fix open a year?  This smells like there's something you're not telling us.  Like you can't/won't fix this.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Ivan Libicher 6/18/12 7:11 AM
Google, please fix this.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... stonedonkey 6/19/12 10:30 AM
Been having the same issue for years, was hoping this thread had the answer, but sadly yet another dead end.

No matter what I do Outlook users see my fontsize as 12pt, it looks awful and reflects badly.

I've tried every variation of size, face, etc.. no luck

Looks like simply including a style for 10pt in the actual email would solve this.. for instance a current email style looks like:

<font face="tahoma, sans-serif">

Outlook doesn't seem to apply the correct font size, so maybe just a little tweak

<font face="tahoma, sans-serif" style="font-size:10pt">

Would resolve the issue... IE.. set the font size in the outgoing html.. also, let the font size show the pt size in the editor and sig editor.

Frustrating this has been going on so long.


Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... PARKKER 6/19/12 2:32 PM
I AM VERY DISAPPOINTED THAT I MUST GO TO OUTLOOK.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... DutchGreen 6/21/12 4:00 AM
I'm using a simple temporary fix to allow me to send emails to clients who only use Outlook.

Type your email in gmail and then select 'plain text' this will show all the double paragraphs etc seen by someone receiving the email in outlook. Delete the extra spaces and send.

This a little bit of a pain but it should mean your gmail is seen in Outlook as you intended.

Bring on the true fix asap.....common Google. You can map the earth but not fix this!

DutchGreen

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... jsemery 6/26/12 10:40 AM
I really don't understand what's taking Google so long to figure this out. I've been a user since 2009 and have struggled with this ever since, having to figure out work-arounds for important emails. I hope everyone just keeps posting on here so they will start to pay attention.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... eBoyd 6/26/12 6:23 PM
Like the many other people on this discussion, I have been suffering with the terribly formatting in Gmail ever since we switched to GoogleAps from Exchange.  It looked like you were making some progress here, but the issue now seems abandoned.  

I have been pursuing this issue in a support ticket with GoogleAps support for over six months now  [Case #01948528].  The ticket has been closed without notice once, and now reopened, and each time I engage on it I have the hardest time even convincing the person on the other end that there is a problem.  "We can't control what Outlooks shows you" is the most typical response.  

Are you kidding?  Yes you can, you could declare a font-face (and pt size for good measure)?  That is what HTML is for... for controlling how text appears!

Why is this so hard?  It is clearly possible, since if I do what others have figured out to do and select all my text and set the font before sending it, then I can be reasonably assured that it is received as I intended.  Why won't Gmail do this for me?  It seems like you are almost there with the "Default Text Styling" lab... I am baffled that this issue hasn't been made a priority given that you are marketing to BUSINESSES who need to present a professional and consistent appearance.  

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... eBoyd 6/26/12 6:24 PM
It seems that you might be handling this issue since your post is more recent that Sarah's.  I don't want to spam this forum, but I do want to bring your attention to the post I made in response to her last post in the hopes that you might be inspired to help us understand what the heck is going on here.  Thank you.  
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Iris 7/2/12 1:51 PM
Hi everyone,

Again, we appreciate your patience and our team is still looking into this. As some of you have pointed out, the differences many of you are seeing between what a message you've sent through in Gmail looks like vs. what it looks like in Outlook, is due to the mail client's default text and styling when you don't change or specify the text formatting in Gmail. When you don't specify a specific font or text size within Gmail and this message gets delivered to Outlook, it may appear a lot larger or in a different font in Outlook, since that is the default Outlook text if a font or font size isn't specified. You can try specifying the specific font and font size you want to use when composing a message, which should help. You can do that on a per message basis using the message formatting options within compose/reply, or via the Default Text Styling Lab in the 'Labs' tab of Gmail Settings (I know earlier on this thread, the Default Text Styling lab was causing strange formatting behaviors, but we fixed that problem awhile back).

There's a number of factors that makes this Gmail vs. Outlook font and size problem a challenge to solve - changes that would fix one mail client, can potentially break another client or break how messages look on different devices. However, we're still working on what we're able to do to make sending from Gmail to Outlook better - but it's not as straightforward of a fix as we, and any of you on this thread, would like. I'll post any updates when I have them, and again really appreciate your patience and understanding.

Thanks,
Iris
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... jsemery 7/2/12 2:19 PM
Iris - You are incorrect on "when you don't change or specify the text formatting in Gmail." The problem as I see it is that gmail only uses Small, Normal, Large and Huge as font sizes, while every other application out there adheres to the point standard. This is only part of the problem though. Very often a simple carriage return will cause Outlook to revert to a whole new style in between paragraphs. So I type out a three paragraph email in a consistent format, the Outlook user who reads it sees my first paragraph the way I wrote it (sort of, because "normal" shows up as 12 point instead of 10) but then the last two paragraphs loose all formatting and end up totally different. This is the embarrassing part.  
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... eBoyd 7/2/12 2:30 PM
Iris, I appreciate you taking the time to update this thread.  Thank you!

Although I don't really know what everyone else is thinking, I suspect that, like me, the main frustration is the appearance that no one is actually working on this.  I suspect that I have given this problem more thought than anyone at Google has because this issue is really really important to me and I have been on my own to figure out why it is happening and what, if anything, to do about it.  I am still not at all convinced that anyone at Gmail is even really on board with us users that this is a big deal.  I would love to be shown otherwise by someone actually addressing the points we make here other than just repeating them back.  

I really do wonder why Gmail can't just specify font-face and point size like other email systems do.  This is what Outlook does, and emails created in Outlook seem to be perfectly readable and maintain consistent formatting across almost all email clients.  This feels a lot like a standard to me and it is hard for me to see how this would "break" anything anywhere.  

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 7/4/12 7:15 PM
Hi Iris

I'm the OP on this thread.  I think it's important that you/google realise that it's not just that messages look different in gmail vs outlook etc.  An additional (and more important) problem is that the formatting is different WITHIN the drafted message.

What I mean is this: if, using chrome, you type a few lines, then use the numbered list to add a few listed items, then turn off the numbered list and add a few more lines, then send (or copy/paste into Word or a google doc), you'll find that the text before the list is SMALL and the text in the list and after the list is LARGE. That is, two different font sizes in the same message!  Worse still, there's no hint that it will look like that when you're drafting it (as it all looks the same when drafting).

Please try it for yourself, and please communicate the problem to the people working on it, so they understand that problem is WITHIN EACH MESSAGE as well as between email clients.  

So, it's not just that it looks small in gmail and big in outlook etc.  The (worse) problem is that it looks half small and half big in the one message.  Very unprofessional.  Surely that is not too hard to fix? I mean firefox seems to have fixed it, as I don't get the problem in Firefox (which I'm using until this is resolved). What did Firefox do that google can't do?

Many thanks for helping with this

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Iris 7/16/12 1:43 PM
Hi everyone,

As mentioned, we're still investigating changing font sizes to points instead, but we need to make sure these changes don't break other mail clients or mobile devices, which is why we're still working on figuring out what the best solution would be for everyone, no matter what client or device they're using. Again, I'll post any updates if I have them, but thank you for staying patient as we work on this.

The above mentioned issue we're working to address is when the Gmail email sent from Outlook looks "uniformly" strangely formatted, not when the formatting breaks or looks strangely formatted mid-message. Instances such as those were things we were able to address in the past, like the number/bulleted list problem you mentioned, SH105, back on January 9. We believe we fixed thenumber/ bulleted list issue in Google Chrome in Google Chrome version 17 and above. However, SH105 and jsemery, if you're still seeing strange mid-message behavior, can you provide specific steps as to when you're seeing problems? SH105, clear steps like you provided with your post in January would be very helpful. Also, if this is only happening in a single browser, like Google Chrome, can you indicate what version of Google Chrome you're using (learn how to find your Google Chrome version)?

Thank you,
Iris



Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 7/16/12 6:51 PM
Hi Iris

Yes it is still happening in Chrome.  The steps for you to reproduce this are as per my previous post - ie:
1. open chrome (my chrome tells me it's up to date - v 20.0.1132.57)
2. type a few lines
3. press enter
4. press numbered list
5. add a few listed items (ie type words, press enter at each line to create a numbered list of items)
6. turn off numbered list
7. type some more lines
8. then copy/paste into Word or a google doc (or send to outlook) - you'll find that the text before the list is SMALL and the text in the list and after the list is LARGE. That is, two different font sizes in the same message!  Worse still, there's no hint that it will look like that when you're drafting it (as it all looks the same when drafting).

I've attached a file to show you how terrible it looks when finished.

Iris, when you follow these steps (using Chrome) are you able to reproduce this problem?

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... muppeteer 7/17/12 1:50 AM
Hi Iris,

The main thing for me is that the font size setting 'Normal' (or if you change to point size, whichever size you define as the default) actually sets the font size in the HTML generated, the problem is that Outlook uses the Web Options in Word to render things and uses 12pt Times by default unless there is formatting to the contrary. Thankfully we now have a lot of <font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> tags being added from Gmail so that clients don't see Times fonts as when this begain. However, with no font size defined Outlook sees 'Small' as 7.5, 'Normal' as 12 and 'Large' as 13.5. Normal should at least be setting font-size:10pt or something similar. Please could someone at least create a Labs option to allow users to define a point/pixel size, then we can all be your guinea pigs, test on a huge array of platforms etc for free (Brucey Bonus for you) and send back our feedback? You would make a lot of people a lot happier...

Regards,

Richard

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... jsemery 7/17/12 7:10 AM
Great suggestion on trying this out in labs. My whole company would gladly participate in this. I have 50 users who refuse to get off of outlook (we use the sync tool) and go fully google out because of this one single issue. If an email looks terrible with multiple fonts etc., it reflects poorly on the sender no matter what. We can't afford to look unprofessional to our clients.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Iris 7/23/12 1:55 PM
SH105 - thank you for your clear steps (and the attached screenshot!). I actually can't reproduce this myself, with the same Google Chrome version you're using. The font size didn't change between Word, Google Docs, or when sending the message via Outlook. That doesn't mean it's not an issue though, but I'd like to get some additional info from you, if you're willing to try - does this issue happen when you use Google Chrome in Incognito mode (which disables any browser toolbars or extensions you might be using)? Are you using any Gmail labs in your account? Does disabling Gmail labs by signing in via: https://mail.google.com/mail/u/1/?labs=0 make a difference? Thanks for your time and patience.

muppeteer - thanks for your specific description and for your suggestion. This is something I'll pass along to the team, I appreciate your feedback!
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 7/23/12 6:01 PM
Hi Iris

Yes, it still happens in incognito mode.

Yes, I have the default font lab activated (set at Tahoma normal).

No, it doesn't happen when I sign in using the 'no labs' link but, as I said in my original post to start this forum on 22 June 2011 (amazing that it's been over a year now!), we need to be able to control the font type in our emails.  

We're not interested in a situation where the default text setting cannot be controlled by us.  As a business, we need a neat and consistent style, and can't have our communication appearing in different fonts and sizes to different people on different computers. As you may know, if the default font lab is off, then the way the message appears will depend on the default settings of the recipient's program - sometimes times new roman, sometimes 12, sometimes calibri, sometimes arial etc).  

Saying that we can only rely on consistent formatting without being able to set a standard appearance to our communication is like saying 'it will work as long as you don't type 'enter' between paragraphs' - it's simply not a feasible situation to put businesses in.  Ok for teenagers emailing their friends perhaps, but not as a business tool.

Finally - I should note that even with the default lab ON, I have no problem in Firefox.  Iris, does your team know that Firefox seems to be able to work well with the lab, but not Google/Chrome?  It may be worth telling them, as it may help them find a solution.

Thanks again for your help

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... JRfrusty 7/26/12 9:29 AM
Dear,
Unbelievable that it last so long all these problems.
Today I discovered again that I've sent a very unprofessional email to a prospect!
Copy and past within gmail messages result in an awfull layout (outlook).

I heard once that some external company has developed an editor for gmail.
Anyone aware of this possible solution?

BR

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Obercor 7/30/12 3:45 PM
Hi there,

I am having the issue as well where an email sent through Outlook with bullets will sometimes add extra lines between each bullet, as well as the second line of text on a single bullet (if it is a long sentence) will have the second line show up where the bullet starts, not where the text starts. (As it showed on Outlook when composing)

Pleas see attachments for example.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Luc Slenders 7/30/12 3:56 PM
Hi Iris,

We're a Google Reseller in Belgium for a while.

The biggest show stopper is the very UGLY mailformattings which Outlook users gets from GMail users.

From now, we're loosing GAPPS customers, only on this point.

The only thing we can say is, they're right.

It's not a mather of using a typically webbrower or enabled labs.  It doesn't work.

Does Google accept this is a real issue? And what will be the real steps to solve this?

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Luc Slenders 7/31/12 2:57 PM
Dear all,

I think we all have the same problems with composing good looking message in GMail.

I found on the help page the "suggestions" option, maybe it can help if we all give our feedback/input to Google on that site?

see: http://support.google.com/mail/bin/static.py?hl=en&page=suggestions.cs

Below, you can choose "I have another idea", choose "Sending and receiving", "Composing and delivery", "Composing".

Please fill in your feedback.

Maybe the Google Apps team keeps in mind, who knows?

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Obercor 7/31/12 3:14 PM
Hi Luc,

Thank you for the idea. I have submitted it as well.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Tomás Alejandro Pérez Ponisio 8/7/12 6:51 AM
I am having the same issue, buy specially with the signature. On every conversation the first email displays the signtature correctly, but once I have an anwser the signtarue "explodes", images dissapears, formats dissapears, colors changing randomly. This happens NOT ALWAYS but in most email conversations, after reading almost all of this thread I suppose it depends on the email software the other person uses. AND it's a pain in the *ss
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... gggoh22 8/14/12 10:03 AM
Zahidaligeo's method (messages, 25+26 Jan) has worked for me so far.  Although using this method seems to mean no pasting text into the email and adding numbered / bulleted lists using Gmail's toobar also seems to cause problems.  

Haven't tried this too many times though.  What have other people's experiences with this method been like?

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Steve Holland 8/27/12 7:19 AM
This is beyond a joke. It's despicable.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... weschicky 9/12/12 6:20 AM
I second Luc's questions.  I have switched browsers and computers, enabled and disabled labs, changed default fonts multiple times, and copied and pasted content out of my mail composition windows into Word just to be able to feel like I have some sense of how the message will look at the recipient's end.  

I am asking for something very simple, as is everyone else here:  for the message we type on our screen to appear the same way anywhere else.  I want to know that when I type a message in a san serif font, single spaced, it will appear in a san serif font, single spaced, anywhere else.  

If Yahoo is able to do this, why can't Google?

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... eBoyd 9/12/12 8:06 AM
"If Yahoo is able to do this, why can't Google?"  +1
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... edisonspapa 9/16/12 8:27 AM
any update?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... TLunn 9/17/12 12:25 PM
This is shocking when Outlook using business contacts actually show you what they are receiving - and to think of the thousands of my emails that looked that way.
Google, please respond on progress, and how we can escalate this matter?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... LocalMarketing 9/19/12 7:45 AM
I recently hired a Virtual Assistant with the intention of sending out the same email to several businesses. I prepared the email I wanted sent out and saved it as a "Canned response". When either me or the VA prepare a B2B email, what we see on our screen looks great - BUT - what arrives at the clients end is different - quite different - and not acceptable.

I gather by this thread that Gmail has not been able to fix this.

Can someone suggest a solution?

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... muppeteer 9/19/12 8:19 AM
Hi Iris, Any news on this? I would just like the ability to insert something like <div style="font-family:Arial; font-size:10pt;"> at the beginning of all my emails and finish it off with a trailing </div> (it's always friendly). I will go and look at Greasemonkey and write an extension for this if it isn't resolved soon as this is really putting me off the Google ecosphere.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... eBoyd 9/19/12 8:29 AM
As much as I am loath to say so (having been an avid Google/Gmail supporter since the beginning), I am coming to the conclusion that Google is just not interested in being a serious player in the Business Communication space.  Or they are at least not interested in putting any actual resources towards that effort.  

It would seem that no one at Google is paying attention to this very legitimate issue other than to pop in here once a quarter and say "we are still looking into it, we take your concerns very seriously, blah blah blah".  If they had just given one engineer the task of fixing this problem half a year ago, it surely would have been fixed.  Heck, an intern could figure out what the problem is.  It's pretty obvious (although not WHY, only Google can see that).  

Short answer: You might want to consider a different email composer connected to your Gmail account.  The web-based composer is really an under-powered one suitable only for informal messages.  

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... lahouidek 9/19/12 8:50 AM
I agree eBoyd, you are right. Google, if you listening.... please please take some GET IT FIX NOW
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... JRfrusty 9/19/12 4:10 PM
absolutely 1000% correct analysis
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... adityakhoche 9/20/12 1:05 AM
using gmail on thunderbird/ Zimbra with IMAP has been a good work around for me.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... ml3bf 9/20/12 5:44 AM
+1 - it's the main reason we can't switch people from Outlook.
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Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 10/1/12 4:47 PM
Hi Iris
Can you please give us an update re progress?
Many thanks
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... clubexhort 10/4/12 4:21 AM
Hello All

Any fixes:
Has anyone found a 3rd party fix to this? Happy to pay for it.
Or any other work around (I've tried different browsers)
Note pad cut and paste seems to work randomly

I suppose for tenders etc one can convert to PDF


My Experience
I've had some emails that have gone out and come back to me and made me wince! I now have to send every mail to outlook first to check it. Sometimes there is no logic to it.

Unicode 8 settings enabled may or may not help.

Observations on font:
San Serrif turns out much larger  in outlook
Narrow font looks okay in outlook but hard to read in gmail
Tahoma etc looks to large like san serrif

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 10/15/12 3:44 AM
Hi Iris

Not sure if you still are looking into this, or if you still are at google. 

I just tried to create a simple email in chrome with two lines of intro text, followed by a numbered list, followed by a few more lines of text.  Unfortunately, the first few lines are size 10 and the rest are size 12.  Is it really that hard to fix this?

Can you please give us an update? 




Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... sam_gmailuser 10/18/12 4:47 PM
I have seen this issue for a couple years. I use gmail and my co-worker uses outlook and we see each others emails all the time, with major formatting errors.

Here is a gmail workaround I have found useful. Keep in mind I do not have default text style turned on in labs.

1) Compose the email in anyway you like (e.g. writing, copy/paste parts from other mail, etc.), and don't worry about the formatting at this step

2) Select the entire message up until your signature line and click on the Tx "remove formatting" icon. All formatting should go away.

3) Now it is safe (at least I have found so) to select words/phrases to change to bold/italic or to convert to hyperlinks.

4) Make sure to not write anything else! (i.e. don't delete or insert any text). This is what can really screw things up.

5) Send!

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... eBoyd 10/19/12 8:10 AM
The fact that this is the only way to ensure clean formatting should be a source of abject embarrassment to any developer working on Gmail... assuming that, contrary to all evidence, there actually are some.  
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... adityakhoche 10/30/12 11:24 PM
Gmail has a new compose box/page.. which got enabled today for me, will that make any difference to the formatting problem?

http://mashable.com/2012/10/30/gmail-compose-email-function/

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... muppeteer 10/31/12 2:19 AM
I have just done a fair bit of testing using the new composer and still choosing 'Regular' from the font size option does not force a font size on that text. Small renders <font size="1">, regular has no font-size defined, large is <font size="4"> (huge is 6 if that is of interest). Using the font tag is deprecated anyway so why this should be used I don't know. But the main issue for me is that 'Regular' still doesn't force a font size so that Outlook with default settings will show it as 12px (not the 10px we see in Gmail). And still, if you don't define a font using the 'Default text style' lab then Outlook users will see Times New Roman in 12px which looks ridiculous. I like Gmail, but I have recommended Office 365 to all my customers and am probably going to move myself. I can't see any businesses using the web interface because of this formatting issue and using Outlook feels like a backwards step for me. Very sad. If there was a way to communicate with a developer at Gmail they would understand the issue and fix this. Please sort it out.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... caesar305 11/1/12 11:06 AM
As a Google Apps Reseller, we have been dealing with this issue for a while. We just submitted another ticket because we lost a sale over this. Hopefully we get an answer soon.

Also, this issue occurs on the Thunderbird Client as well as the Outlook client which is why I lay the blame on Google.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Jorge Riquelme Vargas 11/7/12 5:41 PM
Hi...

Did anybody had Google Apps accounts configured as POP3 or IMAP on Outlook?

I have a client that, because of low internet speed conection, uses POP3 instead of IMAP, and it's in fact using Outlook to compose and receive Mails.

And... the problem IS there also. I mean: composing a Mail USING Outlook 2010 por example, and sending to other people, causes the same effect.

So, the Web compose interface is NOT the reason for this problem.

Try by yourself.

Jorge.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... CrankyBen 11/8/12 5:06 PM
Google please fix this problem. I own a business with 55 Google Apps accounts and we are on the verge of returning to Microsoft due to this single issue.
muppeteer 11/12/12 2:45 AM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... engine1589 11/14/12 6:36 PM
Has this been resolved?  I just applied for a senior management position and was shocked when I checked how my sent email looked.  I was forced to follow up my cover letter with an apology.  I'm pretty sure it ruined my chances for this job.  
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... JRfrusty 11/15/12 12:23 AM
Have no idea, I suppose not solved.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... clubexhort 11/15/12 4:15 AM
Hello All,

When sending important emails I have to:

A) draft in Google docs and set to Arial and 10 point. then cut and paste into email
B)send email to outlook just to check its okay.
C)do not risk retyping anything into the email you have now created, sometimes it keeps new text as Arial sometimes it can come out like a child wrote it. (we all know the feeling of reviewing a bad email that has been sent- gut wrenching!!!!

Google won a large deal with Spanish bank BBVA 110'000 thousand seats would be interesting to know if they found a work around.

Thanks

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... JRfrusty 11/15/12 8:24 AM
As the problem isn't solved I propose to add apologies to our signature=>
***in the name of Google we apologize for this unprofessional layout of the email, this problem will be solved from 1000,000 complaints per continent***
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Obercor 11/15/12 11:51 AM
My company is a Google Apps Reseller. I have done some testing recently and it looks like sending from Gmail to Outlook looks fine now (it didn't before), but the other way around loses formatting.

I have just emailed Google Enterprise Support (again) with a direct link to this thread. I really hope this gets sorted out completely.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... muppeteer 11/15/12 3:43 PM
I've just retested and sending from gmail to Outlook still has the inconsistent size problem: Small = 7.5pt, Regular = 13pt, Large = 13.5pt so all my emails look like a poster for a primary school fair... Am ditching and going back to Outlook. I've tried writing a Chrome plugin but gmail changed the compose window system (grrr) so I have decided to go back to Outlook until I can't bear it any more (again).
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 11/15/12 10:44 PM
Recipients are still receiving emails with inconsistent font types and font sizes.  It's been well over a year now.

Is anyone at Google/Gmail/Google Apps responsible for looking into this?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... muppeteer 11/16/12 1:30 AM
I put in a detailed ticket outlining what was wrong with the HTML generated, what needed to be added to fix it (pretty simple technically) and asking why this problem existed. The response was polite but essentially they have added it to an internal wishlist of things that customers have asked for and there is no predicted timeline for it to be solved. I was not very impressed thus the move to Outlook and setting up a trial with Office 365...
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Encoso 11/16/12 4:20 PM
From this discussion alone 272 posts from 108 authors dating back to 6/22/11... Clearly nothing is happening to resolve this issue! Hey Google what happened to the "don't be evil" motto? Should it be amended to "don't be evil unless we are making money from it". You create a "Business" Apps solution that has the potential to be an excellent solution for both small and large business but you choose not to provide solutions to a MAJOR issue. As everyone here knows Outlook is used by most of the business world so without a solution to this problem Google Business Apps is pretty much useless (and worthless). If Google wants to concentrate on the personal email market then so be it, you should at least have the courtesy to let us business owners know so we can find alternative solutions. Perhaps if you are serious about resolving this issue you should concentrate on making Business Apps functional NOT "pretty".

40 million active Business Apps users
$3 per user per month
$120 million per month
No solution!

Interesting

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... JRfrusty 11/17/12 6:08 AM
Someone from their Adwords team called me to setup a campaign (daa...@google.com)
I forwarded him this discussion group and said that we suffer reputation damage due to this.
How small our business is compared to Google, it won't work for them neither if they ignore customer complaints..
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... sjabaker 11/19/12 1:22 PM
Like some others, I've now given up on hoping that Google will finally get around to addressing fundamental issues (as opposed to "chasing the shiny" like G+ integration and so on).

I've migrated my last account off Gmail and on to Office 365, Google Apps is now solely used for an RSS reader.

I'll miss some of the touches of elegance (the whole concept/approach of conversations + archiving + labels is simply brilliant), but at least this and other basic functionality won't be an issue:
- proper font handling and selection available, plus choosing a default font not regarded as an unsupported experimental feature
- better search (yes, it's a bit ironic - but with no wildcard/sub-word capability and the issue of labels not propagating to new messages in conversations, Gmail's search functionality is inferior to Outlook's)
- ability to see long titles of appointments/meetings in the calendar at a glance (via mouse-over)
- etc, etc.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... husen 11/26/12 3:11 PM
Google called me last night. They said they were sorry we were experiencing this formatting issue with Microsoft Outlook. And that since the issue itself doesn't stand on Google's end, they can’t provide us the solution for it.

:(
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... JRfrusty 11/26/12 11:51 PM
Has nothing to do with MS Outlook.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Jason Barkley 1/2/13 11:43 AM
I am a GoogleApps reseller and have a client seeing font size changing in the middle of a sentence/paragraph. I can gladly send examples. Please advise.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Jen Kushnir 1/3/13 2:05 PM
Yes I agree! I just looked through my sent emails and some of them look absoulutely unprofessional! It is embarrasing! Google please help!
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... clubexhort 1/4/13 4:05 AM
I too resell Google apps, I see it quite alot.

wont disclose which org i do it for, but i trouble shooted it internally and they said basically they are not (with or without Google going to do anything) There are numerous examples  in this forum of such.

What can you do ?

For important emails I advise you create the email in Google word proccessor  and set to Arial ten points and cut and paste this and only this. 
Double check by sending to your outlook account with your personal email ID

Thanks
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... runnerfrog13 1/4/13 9:34 AM
I am not a Google Apps user, I use regular gmail through the web client. I have this issue, where text looks fine in the compose window, but upon send all the formatting dissapears halfway through.
   --> Not a Google Apps issue only

I do not, nor ever have used Microsoft Outlook for my emails. In fact, I began noticing this issue from emails I was sending to other gmail users, and when I viewed my "sent mail" I saw the formatting gone.
  --> Not a Microsoft Outlook issue



Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... siobhan333 1/7/13 9:00 AM
Year 2013 and no change - I am unemployed and used gmail to send 100's of job applications which included a written email. I have today received a reply with a f**ked up letter from myself to the employer. You can imagine how this is impacting on me economically both in the short and long term. It is not worth the wasted time, opportunities and months of effort. I am not clear on whether if I use Outlook independently it would be ok? An email service is one you can trust to transmit your basic email as it appears. This is not an email service. Never again.  
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... siobhan333 1/7/13 9:03 AM
same as above - however to me in my sent folder they look perfect. It is only when the sender replies to me that I can see the formatting they received from me. This is excruciating. 
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... LUNGSTEN 1/7/13 10:29 AM
Agreed, this is getting silly now - its not like the issue is hard to replicate.

I have got real pressure from my MD to move us to Office365, which I am likely to do if this doesn't get resolved in Q1 of this year.

Microsoft have done a great job with Outlook web and Hotmail looks and behaves pretty decently now too.

Sorry Google, I'm trying to champion your cause here but this one issue is so weighty it cannot be overlooked any longer - I can't see how any serious business can continue to live with this issue for much longer.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Cliff Coy 1/17/13 6:35 AM
The resolutions I've found for this problem are:

Just before sending the e-mail select all of the text (ctrl-a) and format the entire email before I send it.

Use Mozilla Thunderbird.

Other wise the formatting is AFU.

Kinda Dumb looking.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Kurt Palmer 1/22/13 2:37 PM
This is a big problem for us, we migrated to Google Apps not for a "fun" email system but for something that offered more features at a lower price than MS-Exchange while remaining "professional".

The inconsistencies in font size is affecting the state of professional emails from my sales and marketing teams and none of the fixes mentioned on this thread have alleviated the problem.

What is most upsetting is the fact that Google has stated that they want to capture more of the enterprise space but they have "failed" to correct this problem in nearly 2 year after it was reported and have been quite and unresponsive to their paying customers!

After their lack of action and silence I think it is time to take this to Google+ and twitter.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Obercor 1/22/13 2:58 PM
If it helps at all (which I don't think it does very much) I have submitted a number of cases and had specialists from Google's Enterprise Support phone me about this issue. (My company is a Google Apps Reseller)

What they have said is that they now actually acknowledge that this is an issue, and they are working on a fix. The reason it is taking so long is because they have to ensure that whatever fix they put in place does not break other features or functionality that works right now. Unfortunately, this sort of testing takes a LONG time as almost all of it has to be done manually. They could not give me a time frame for resolving the issues, which means it's likely a few months away still.

If I hear anything, I will be sure to post it here, but in the mean time the answer is to "sit tight". I wouldn't recommend holding your breath though. :/
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... husen 1/22/13 9:28 PM
That's very interesting. The google support person who phoned me would not acknowledge that this was something that Google could fix. According to them it was all Outlook's fault. Time to open a third case methinks.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Obercor 1/23/13 7:06 AM
It is possible that it is not something that can be fixed due to Microsoft locking things down, but who knows? They might do all their testing and say it's not possible. The case I opened was on-going for months until they got someone higher-up than the regular support staff to take a look at it. I gave them the link to this thread if that helped.
(unknown) 1/29/13 5:53 PM <This message has been deleted.>
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 2/7/13 9:11 PM
We've heard good things about outlook.com and, as part of looking into it, we noticed that their settings allow you to set a font type and font size using a NUMBER (ie size 10 or 12 etc) rather than the more clumsy "small" / "medium" / "large" settings offered by Gmail.  Also, the default font type and size options are standard features in outlook.com (not experimental, unsupported labs as they are in Gmail).  Could it really be that hard for Google/gmail to implement this?

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... fey0168 2/7/13 10:05 PM
Select all and reset the format does not help. Gmail is starting to really suck. It gets worse instead of better. They need to fire all the kids and get some serious programmers. Too much fun, not enough work
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... OperaFan 2/8/13 2:00 AM
I think I can point Google to a fairly simple solution here: In the outgoing Mail you have the HTML-Tag <font> which doesn't make sense without any parameters. It normally shouldn't do any harm UNLESS Outlook or whatever client the recipient uses, decides to include a default (?) size parameter. Here's an example:
 
<div><font>=A0</font></div><div><font>This was some blabla text=A0</font>and so on...
and this what came back in the answer:
<DIV><FONT size=3D+0>This was some blabla text=20</FONT>and so on...
 
My suggestion to Google: programmatically get rid of these empty and therefore most superfluous font-tag brackets either in the composer/editor-window or flush the tags before sending.
 
Because this most annoying issue is around for quite some time, and because it seems to be easy to fix: Please get this done quick.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... OperaFan 2/8/13 2:21 AM
Oh, here's another one. In the outgoing mail there are HTML-Tags like <div style>. Again, an empty style doesn't make sense. These Tags should be like <div>. In contrast to the <font> tag this doesn't seem to create an issue at the recipient's end. But it clearly points out that the HTML as created by the editor needs tidying up before being sent.
BTW: These two examples are based on work within Chrome not Opera as my forum name suggests. I use both browsers.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Obercor 2/8/13 10:19 AM
OperaFan, I have sent a link to this thread suggesting they look at your comments to Google's Enterprise Support. Let's hope this helps get this sorted.

*I do not work for Google, so no guarantees, but my company is a Google Apps Reseller. Hopefully that will carry some weight.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... OperaFan 2/8/13 3:16 PM
Oh thanks.
 
For the folks at Google: What I did, was compare the mail in the sent box with the (strange looking) reply in my inbox - both in "show original" mode/view.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Nan Eckardt 2/21/13 7:21 AM
Is there a fix for this yet? I have font problems all the time with gmail.
I do NOT use "labs" (unless unknowningly - I don't know even what they are); I don't use Outlook with Gmail, and I don't use Chrome. I am simply using gmail in Firefox, and composing "normal" messages - often replying to others - I am NOT cutting and pasting or doing anything unusual - I am simply typing text. The font will simply and suddenly change from small to large and vice versa in mid-stride, as it were. I can't even tell it happened until I look in my sent mail or cc myself on the message.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... James Marsh 2/28/13 7:53 PM
I can't believe this isn't fixed yet - there must be close to a billion gmail users.  Please fix, I don't want to go back to outlook!
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... SH105 3/9/13 6:33 PM
Any word from anyone about developments at Google or easy workarounds?

Anyone from Google care to respond?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... lahouidek 3/10/13 5:15 PM
I dont think google care to be honest.
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... JRfrusty 3/11/13 1:43 AM
I won't give up complaining.
I spent a big part of my marketing budget to Adwords, believed in the gmail concept and once you've changed your accounts you discover this awful, stupid, annoying GMAIL TEXT EDITOR.

damned

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Chris Hicklin 3/14/13 2:28 AM
I am having this exact same problem as everyone else. Reading back through this thread I simply cannot believe that this simple issue has been going on for so long, and Google have spectacularly failed to do a single useful thing about it.

I am feeling I may have to try and get out of using Google Apps because of this, we migrated from an Exchange Server, but to be perfectly honest, the awful 10 year old exchange server worked a LOT better.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Cheryl Gurney 3/14/13 11:25 AM
Absolutely appalled this has not been resolved after 2 years. Especially since Google Apps is a paid service. Completely unacceptable!
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Sarah Murphy 3/21/13 4:30 PM
Hi Sarah

I am having a similar problem with font. Whenever I try to print, the font doesn't show up on the printed copy.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Gündüz Mutlu 3/30/13 2:36 AM
Bye bye Google....forever!
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Vicky Stimson 3/30/13 3:33 AM
the issue is that gmail needs to leave things alone.. or give and option whether do use it or not... you like MSN making people change to use skype when you just want to use a the messsenger
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... JRfrusty 4/2/13 3:35 AM
sorry, don't understand your comment..
pro/contra?
Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... husen 4/16/13 8:54 PM
It is astonishing that this is such a big issue and yet there is so little awareness about it. It took me months to find this thread and only a few people are posting on it every few days. Perhaps this is why Google is not doing anything about it. Why make any effort to change a service when only a few want it?

Anyways my company is talking about moving away from Google now. As much as I used to love Google this thing is making us feel completely stupid and unprofessional and we don't want to keep on paying for a service like that.

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... Andrew Lanier 4/18/13 10:34 PM
Okay - this is BS.  We all rely on a business email solution that doesn't represent our businesses unprofessionally.  

What options has anyone found to move their emails to that integrates with Google apps?

Re: Dear Google, PLEASE LISTEN TO US ON THIS! Important email formatting problem users may not even know they have... JRfrusty 4/18/13 11:29 PM
I really wonder if this is the right platform to discuss this topic. I'm not an IT guy but maybe we should setup a blog or FB page where we can show everything??

Complaining here makes no sence anymore.


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