|A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Oliver Dixon||11/29/12 12:02 PM|
So far, I've had very little joy with AdSense and even less so with this group so forgive me if my attitude seems a little direct, but I am rather worried. My experience has been a 12-day disaster! Frankly I'm appalled. But that's not the reason for my concern.
Recently my account has been disabled due to "Invalid Activity" - a rather vague and equally wide gamut of possibilities could exist that fall under this category.
Whilst my questions and concerns are many and varied, my major concern right now is that if there was someone with an engine, entity or system that was capable of sitting on my website or other peoples' websites and click repeatedly on the links on said page, do I/would they get penalised for this activity even if it's without my (or their) knowledge, and if so why on earth is this so?
I have witnessed many such systems attack publicly accessible sites such as Mantis (when anonymous reporting is enabled), Wikipedia and its sister sites, and surprisingly even some of my own homebrew software! I find it hard, and refuse, to believe that something such as this should penalise the account holder!
My example in point would be a local library seminar for the elderly on how to use the internet. Multiple PCs all sitting on a single IP viewing the same web page instructed by their tutor. Let's say for example they've never seen an internet advert before, or they see something interesting that grabs their eye, and decide to click on it. You would get a massive surge of adverts from one place to one site.
As unlikely as it sounds, this could happen; and commonly does, although perhaps not under that exact pretext. Are you telling me something as harmless as this could result in something as harmful as an account suspension?! I'm hoping not.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||luzie||11/29/12 12:22 PM|
>>> this could result in something as harmful as an account suspension?
Yes it could.
(Mind that this is not a "suspension", it's a closure and Adsense sadly is over for you for good)
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Gracey||11/29/12 12:41 PM|
Whilst my questions and concerns are many and varied, my major concern right now is that if there was someone with an engine, entity or system that was capable of sitting on my website or other peoples' websites and click repeatedly on the links on said page, do I/would they get penalised for this activity even if it's without my (or their) knowledge, and if so why on earth is this so?
Yes, it could happen, and there are such things known as "click-bots" but these types of incidents seldom occur at random. Very often it's done by someone who knows the publisher/had a spat with the publisher or is otherwise upset with them/is a competitor of the publisher. Not too often does that occur out of the blue but it isn't impossible that it might.
As for the why - part of a publisher's job is to protect the advertisers who pay to appear on their websites. Adsense gives us only a few methods to do that, but those with webhosting can use other methods besides the ones AdSense provides.
Adsense provides the "authorized sites" function in your Adsense account. As long as your site is in the authorized list, any clicks on the ads on your website are attributed to your account (paid to) and charged to the advertiser. To stop having ad clicks charged to the advertiser and paid you, you can take your website out of the authorized sites list. The ads still display on your site, but even 10,000 ad clicks wouldn't be counted if someone sent a click-bot to your site.
Adsense also has a form for publishers to report such things, along with the steps they've taken to stop the activity.
As publishers, we are responsible for everything that occurs on our websites and surprisingly, this means what a visitor (or visitors) does while at our site. While we can't actually control the visitor in "real time" (ie: while they are on the site) we can report unusual occurrences to Adsense. Using tracking/statistics counters can give you information on your visitor, like their IP address, along the with the time of day they visited your site, what links they clicked and where they came from before they were on your site.
That's probably not a great example because every library I've been in blocks advertising at the internet access point so ads don't display in a situation like that. Many schools also do the same thing in classroom computers, as do many work places.
Yes, particularly if you've done nothing about it, not even when noticing it.
But you indicated your account was disabled for invalid activity, which in fact could mean a number of other things.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Oliver Dixon||11/29/12 2:14 PM|
Thank you for your swift and accurate reply.
> "Yes, particularly if you've done nothing about it, not even when noticing it."
This just raises further concerns! From my perspective, it technically hasn't happened!! Since I'm relatively new to AdSense, I've been monitoring my account, and my YouTube account which the two are linked, on a daily basis to make sure this kind of thing wasn't happening. I've seen absolutely nothing on my AdSense account back-end that would have alerted me to any spurious activity. If I had I would have taken measures, assuming I'd've been given the time!! I can't report what I can't see, nor am I a psychic.
> "That's probably not a great example because every library I've been in blocks advertising at the internet access point so ads don't display in a situation like that. Many schools also do the same thing in classroom computers, as do many work places."
By the by, I will have to disregard this quote as irrelevant as virtually every office I've worked in to date has allowed adverts through to their workers. I know! I had to set ABP up on many peoples' machines!
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Oliver Dixon||11/29/12 2:41 PM|
Thank you for your ... reply?
Google have supplied me with a link to their form to appeal in their e-mail and I am awaiting their response currently.
I am more than willing to help Google in resolving this matter, to learn from any mistakes I may have made and continue assisting in ways that will hopefully benefit both parties. If Google don't wish to have such a relationship, then that's their preference. If I'm met with a response likewise to your own, I will consider taking my custom elsewhere.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Gracey||11/29/12 2:43 PM|
I've seen absolutely nothing on my AdSense account back-end that would have alerted me to any spurious activity. If I had I would have taken measures, assuming I'd've been given the time!! I can't report what I can't see, nor am I a psychic.
You didn't mention it was a YouTube account (or I missed it in the initial post), but in Adsense you wouldn't get that much information. You'd need to check for that sort of information in your YouTube Analytics and I don't know how detailed YouTube analytics are.
Most of the information I gave you applies to websites and blogs, and not to YouTube. YouTube in fact, doesn't have a lot of options in terms of protection, making it harder to avoid problems. I don't monetize my YouTube account because I feel a distinct lack of control and don't want to jeopardize my account my not having some control.
Every office I've been in has advertising blocked, so what can I say. The comment isn't irrelevant, all it means is that some workplaces allow it, and some do not. I haven't actually spent time in small offices, but larger corporations where they don't allow their employees to access certain websites and where they do block ads.
But your reference was a library, not an office and such institutions (of any kind) will make decisions such as that one (ads or not) based on their own doctrines. Maybe only 99% of the libraries block ads but it doesn't really matter if they do or not - it's very unlikely a few people clicking ads during a teaching hour would cause such a large number of clicks as to disable an account - it would have to be a very curious group indeed for them to click on enough ads to cause that.
I don't even know at this point where to tell you to begin investigating. You might ask other YouTubers in the monetize forum if they figured out a way to track down problems such as yours.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Oliver Dixon||11/29/12 3:00 PM|
Thank you for your reply.
I will read up on the link you sent in your post.
Vis-a-vis YouTube's analytics and just for the record (no need to answer this here. If it doesn't resolve itself, I'll look for or ask it on the above board), I've had no data regarding monetisation ... nor indeed have I had any information over the past since Tuesday. (when I first activated it) Likes, Dislikes, Views, Comments, Subscription change. There's no data at all as of Wednesday.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Brains1964||11/29/12 3:52 PM|
Best of luck with the appeal Oliver but I fear that like many of us here you will find that Google Adsense are not in the reasoning business and don't want that sort of relationship with Publishers, the appeal is most likely not to succeed because it is autonomous and not really a reasonable, unbiased, intelligent and friendly person looking at all aspects of it like you hope it will be, it's a system that is heavily biased towards concluding the worst, namely, "you are guilty"....I know you're probably not, or at least, you didn't encourage or instigate Invalid Activity deliberately, neither did I, neither did many of us here who also got the lifetime ban but Google Adsense operate this insane 'one strike and you're out' rule, as far as I know, they're the ones that do this or at least one of a very few, most others make allowances but Google makes no such allowances, if you think that is a crazy way of doing business then I agree, I think so too but they don't care because as far as they are concerned Publishers are a dime a dozen so as quickly as they get rid of one they get a 100 others, many of whom will also get that same dreaded "Invalid Activity" email, the real problem is that Google Adsense obviously feel they have no reason to respect Publishers and until they change that mind set they will keep doing this for as long as they can legally get away with it.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||TheCapedCrusader||11/29/12 4:05 PM|
At the end of the day, we are all Google's customer when talking about AdSense. It is right for Google to decide on whether or not to do business with us.
If you or I walk into a store and push over a display and the store manager bans us, is he/she right or wrong to not want to do business with us in the future?
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||splatcat||11/29/12 4:26 PM|
I think people get confused when they start talking about guilty or not guilty. Invalid Activity is a statistical fact that AdSense have identified on the account. Whilst I may agree that the way the subsequently deal with it and more importantly, the tools they give you to deal with it in YouTube are very poor, arguing that you didn't do it misses the target completely.
The opening posters makes the best point about the lack of information given to help a publisher identify the issue but I'm not convinced AdSense have that info, not without spending a lot of time going through the account. To spend $1,000+ of a skilled engineers time looking at where the invalid activity came from wouldn't make economical sense. There is a big difference between seeing traffic behave invalidly and finding out what is was about the traffic source which lead to it..
The most obvious thing are... social based traffic (family, friends, work collogues etc) and having a small number of subscribers.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||luzie||11/29/12 4:33 PM|
>>> it's a system that is heavily biased towards concluding the worst
No, it's a computerized system that doesn't conclude the worst, it compares bits with bytes and decides based upon numbers. You gotta take it, there's almost none of your imaginary "friendly people" involved, and they'll never be. This system needs to be automatted, because "friendly people" would make too many mistakes and computers are far cheaper than people and hold costs at bay - which in the end is best for advertisers themselves.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Publisher1||11/29/12 5:34 PM|
I believe Google's engineers are aware of the sorts of problems that scare publishers like me about YouTube and are taking some measures to build better controls and methods of managing the distinction between pure statistical anomolies and abusive traffic/clicking. We will never know all the details around here -- the problem is there is a cat-and-mouse game going on between scammers and Google about how far they can manipulate the system to cheat it. This doesn't mean that otherwise innocent publishers cannot be caught by the bots; the program's incredible volume, scale and high percentage payout to publishers means that, over time, some are caught in the web, their appeal fails, and they lose their account, for good.
This may seem frustrating and "unfair" but we have to see things as a business relationship where we are tiny business-to-business suppliers (not customers) dealing with a very large company. Then, if we mentally 'reverse roles' and see things from Google's perspective, we can understand how to move forward and understand the most effective course of action when our accounts are disabled.
The first step is to do our best to figure out how the problem happened, and what we can do to prevent recurrences, and file a thoughtful appeal. That is obviously easier to advise in theory than action. Most disabled publishers (especially YouTube publishers) presently lack the data and statistical information to prove their case.
The second strategy is more complex but provides a longer-range solution. If a customer turfs us, we can chose to close up shop, or we can try to find other customers. The strategy of hoping to regain our "old" customer (Google) is theoretically possible (through a business account) but if we are really in business we would never allow our enterprise to depend on a single customer, so that option is only relevant once you've built things so that you don't "need" AdSense any more.
When you think of things at this level, the system, if somewhat frustrating, is reasonably fair. It is folly to stake too much time, energy and fear into AdSense, however.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Oliver Dixon||11/30/12 1:47 AM|
It's not unfair, it's a farce!
"Most disabled publishers (especially YouTube publishers) presently lack the data and statistical information to prove their case."
Exactly! I have logs from my sites reporting that nothing of any problematic nature is going on. Google Analytics isn't telling me anything of a problem, AdSense was hopeless at really reporting anything useful. This problem only started after I added my YouTube account and THEN I don't have any information regarding anything that's going on. How am I meant to keep track of problems or report things as suspicious or even defend myself against what are merely wild accusations at best?!
I have neither the time nor the inclination to pursue this conversation here at this time. I will cease to continue with AdSense, probably along with other Google sites, and I have removed all AdSense code from my sites. Furthermore, I will cease to endorse AdSense as a decent medium of advertising to my work colleagues and/or associates.
- End -
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||seo101||11/30/12 11:45 AM|
You totally missing the point!!!!
Its no longer worth it for advertisers to pay for the useless traffic that that the were getting from your site! Its that simple. Would you pay for traffic from a site that provided poor quality non-converting traffic? Why are you expecting Adsense to do so?
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Publisher1||11/30/12 11:49 AM|
SEO, this is too blunt an assertion. YouTube operates in a kind of closed loop. While there are some amounts of data and reporting, the level of control videographers have is not nearly as good as it is if you have a site hosted on your own server. As well, the social nature of YouTube creates some embedded problems, especially when traffic volumes are relatively low -- common for new accounts. Google has decided to aggressively seek out new videographers with active marketing, resulting (I fear) in some people getting caught into the snare, ill-prepared.
I don't think ost YouTube pubishers have much to worry about, but equally, based on what I've seen here, I have no plans to monetize YouTube videos personally in the near future. And I am not the only AdSense TC with that opinion.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||seo101||11/30/12 12:04 PM|
It might be blunt, but its business. If a site or YT channel provide a poor return on investment to those of us they pay good money, then why bother to continuing buying advertising space off them? Adsense is a business, not a social welfare agency or charity.
I wish Google would stop buying off a lot more sites and YT channels (ie disable them), so there is an even better return on the investment for those who pay.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||AliBhai1||11/30/12 12:33 PM|
Well if you really want to do it, then you can help Google without a Adsense.
Or In fact you can help other publishers as well in saving there accounts ,
I don't want to give but I am an example I know, I haven't saved many accounts but probably only few back in my country, and told people about and Adsense and bewarae of scammers and other such things.
So actually little but it helps, and TC's they have Adsense IDs but being in forum is never linked to Adsense and they help people for free and that is the best thing I like about it.
So I would suggest be a part of forum if you want to help Google.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Brains1964||11/30/12 1:33 PM|
Yes, agreed, this is why I think giving participants the title "Publisher" is a very bad idea, it's far too strong a title to give to someone who is simply agreeing to have ad space on their website or youtube video, I might run my own small show like I understand a few others here do who have also taken part in Google Adsense in the past but as far as my relationship with Google goes, I'm just exactly as you say, a customer of theirs like most, so when I tried this scheme out myself sometime ago I was rather perplexed being refereed to as a "Publisher" and didn't feel that I was doing anything with Google to warrant so significant a title, in someways I actually think google are inadvertently or maybe even purposefully taking the mick out of users by giving them that title, after all, a real Publisher doesn't get treated with the impunity that Google treats it's "Publishers", if you're going to give someone that title then you have to be prepared to give them the status that goes with the title otherwise it's a mockery.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||TheCapedCrusader||11/30/12 3:05 PM|
Hmm, yes I thought that also at first, many years ago, but then I realised that Advertiser and Publisher are the terms used in the advertising industry. Advertisers pay for the ads which are "published" by the Publishers. It's really quite simple when you "get" it. A web site or other online medium should be considered as exactly the same as a print publication in that respect.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||splatcat||11/30/12 4:34 PM|
a real Publisher doesn't get treated with the impunity that Google treats it's "Publishers"
I'm afraid they do. I try advertising on sites all the time, including "large" ones. If it doesn't work then I don't spend any more money with them. I don't send them an email telling them this, I don't give them a chance to appeal, I don't tell them what alterations they can do with their sites... I don't even investigate why it hasn't worked... there are plenty more sites to try ( and physical publications) so I just move my money on... does that make me worse than AdSense?
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Publisher1||11/30/12 9:38 PM|
Interesting, the discussions and definitions of "publisher" My nick reflects my real business -- I publish periodicals, and at present most of my company's revenue comes from print media (though obviously online is increasingly important.) The job title doesn't denote any special status -- other than that the publisher's role is to co-ordinate both the editorial and revenue-generating content of the media business. And that, of course, is why most AdSense site holders are indeed "publishers" even if they don't feel that way.
The YouTube situation is a bit more challenging, however, because the videographer doesn't control many of the business levers that a real publisher would. Real publishers have significant control over their media -- they can select their business suppliers, hosts, make design and other decisions, and can work with a multiplicity of customers. Strictly-set YouTube "publishers" cannot -- because Google owns both the channel/service and serves all of the advertising. It's a one-customer deal. The closest (and not very good) analogy I can think of would be the cab driver renting the use of a taxi from a single cab company. It may strictly meet the requirements of "independent contractor" in business, but the relationship is closer to indentured servitude.
Genuine publishers have an interesting (and limited) degree of power. Publishing isn't a conventional business -- especially for those of us who earn full-time livings at it, and employ staff and contractors to make the whole thing run properly. For me, it is an intensely satisfying (if very challenging) occupation -- overseeing writers, administrative staff, salespeople, designers and still maintaining my journalistic passions (my original occupation). AdSense has created realy interesting entry opportunities for others who wish to take up the "publisher" occupation -- but to truly qualify, you're going to have to learn how to sell your own advertising or contract/hire independent reps and not totally rely on AdSense for your income.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Brains1964||12/1/12 3:16 AM|
Yes but that's exactly my point, in that position you're in the driving seat, you're not getting walked over, as you say you can take your money elsewhere without having to explain, you've got a lot of power there, in a real business partnership of course fall outs happen, I've seen it often enough but again, unless, one has been completely bought out by the other there is control on both sides if one decides to walk off or stop doing business with the other then they each take what's there's and drive off in separate directions, but when people participate in the Google Adsense scheme, it's an employer over employee relationship, Google are the "employer" and are in the driving seat, in the Google Adsense scheme you're a "partner" in name only there, Google sells the idea to people in a way that gets them thinking that they are really important when in reality they are not even worth a dime a dozen in the eyes of Google Adsense, I know some might say that it's peoples own fault for falling for these things and I agree with them, it is naive but just because people are foolish it doesn't mean that it's right to mis-sell ideas and take advantage of those people who are easy prey.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||AliBhai1||12/1/12 6:37 AM|
I think you are not getting the idea, Thing is Google doesn't need heaps of Adspace in Adsense . It has thousand infact millions of sites in there, All it needs more and more advertisers to have higher competition and CPC of that adspace and that Higher CPC increases Google's percentage,
just a example
like 3 billion dollars for ads in 2011
but 4 billion Dollars in 2012 because there were more customers interested in those Ad spaces that are potentially a shared property of Adsense Now .
That is the basic model and it is all business game and money , nothing like caring and anything like that ,
No rules except those in-forced by law as basic ones , all others are need of time, How the programme is going , Do we have more ad sapce than advertisers,
How many sites we need this year , and everything else.
stratiges made by some Highly qualified by people ( I am not saying they have made the best stratigies ) but you know It has worked for 8 years.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Publisher1||12/1/12 8:18 AM|
Brains, your answer is incorrect in so far as the relationship between AdSense and publishers is more in the "mind" of the publisher than anything else. The system attracts possibly millions of people with not a tiny bit of business experience and sets them up as independent contractors/business people (even those with individual personal accounts are defined as sole proprietership businesses, at least according to the tax codes!) If you as a publisher go into the relationship with AdSense as a business person dealing with another business, you don't get all hung up on the rights and wrongs, "fair treatment" and "consumer rights" stuff -- and focus on the business relationship. Fairness is important, of course, but there are trade-offs. Google pays out a reasonably good share of revenue to publishers, acting more at the level of an advertising agency than publisher in its revenue share; leaving most of the revenue in the hands of the publisher/vendors. The system also creates plenty of temptations for fraud and abuse, especially for people short of ethics, intelligence, and money. And it creates lots of opportunity for inadvertent or unwanted abuse -- friends and family "helping" publishers and (much more rarely, but it happens) sabotage attempts on publishers from enemies or malcontents.
Wading into this space as an individual, you can certainly feel blind-sided when things don't work out well; when you receive the highly depersonalized "account disabled" email, and there is no one to communicate/help/respond, other than autobots or perhaps the few humans on these support forums who are volunteer Top Contributors and with one exception (me) have never experienced the "account disabled" process first-hand.
The challenge is that Google has truly redesigned the business paradigm; creating millions of small business owners who don't have any perception or understanding of business and what publishing really is all about (at least in the traditional perspective). I can't argue about right or wrong here -- radical innovation rarely has worked so well as it has for Google, and I'm not going to put down the technological brilliance that has created so much wealth and opportunity for people who would otherwise never have a chance to earn even a tiny living with their talents.
My challenge is to try to teach these individuals that, yes, Google offers an "entry point" but if your account is snuffed out, for whatever reason, you indeed can return but this time at a much higher threshold -- that of a genuine business owner. Most people don't have the stomach, skills, or experience for this level of operation -- but it is still there. In other words, the only problem that a disabled publisher has to solve is the problem he/she would have had to solve just a decade ago before AdSense existed: "How can I create a real publishing business on my own." I suppose I'm living proof that it can be done.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Brains1964||12/1/12 11:15 AM|
Oh aye, it's in the mind of the publisher alright, you got that spot on because it sure ain't in reality as we all find out but you see, most people won't have any reason to think about where they stand with Google Adsense, good or bad as a "Publisher/Youtube Partner" unless they are given an impression or an idea from the source and the impression that Google Adsense gives to someone whom sees their advert or is starting out with them on the Adsense program is a very different face to the one they get when Adsense decides that they are "invalid activity" material, actually, when I tried it out (being the old fashioned skeptic that I am by nature anyway :D) I was thinking at the back of my mind that it was too easy and too good to be true, and you know what they say about things that are too good to be true don't you?? LOL, so, actually, the 'invalid activity' email wasn't a surprise...... just an insult :D, as I've often said here, Google has only been an "entry point/help" to me in business in so much as it has shown me how NOT to run a business :D and I am certainly incorporating those inverted "lessons" Google have "taught" me into my own small enterprise that I have running currently
I note what you say about being the only one that seems to have come back from the proverbial dead here and all hats off to that but the old adage 'it's the exception that proves the rule' comes to mind, being that you seem to be the only of countless many here only serves to tell me that the problem is still more with Google Adsense and the way they sell this program than with the people that try it out and get rejected, if there were many more like yourself with just a few saying "Google sucks" here then I would be more inclined to think it was just those users but so many saying it tells me there's a fire under the smoke, of course, I still don't expect Google Adsense to address this issue until (if ever) it starts to effect them significantly as a business but there is little denying that there is a problem here that logically they ought to be doing something about.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||AliBhai1||12/1/12 12:18 PM|
I need your words about this thread , please
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Publisher1||12/1/12 12:21 PM|
Brains,, lets put things into perspective. Most accounts are NOT disabled, and the greatest percentage of revenue is concentrated in a few large business-operating (and minded) accounts. So overall, virtually everyone (both in aggregate numbers and by volume of business) does okay with AdSense. I'm quite confident that at Google, real humans investigate large accounts before disabling them; the cost of the lost revenue and returned advertising funds would be significant. Autobots do the job for the smaller ones. (This is speculation, I don't have magical inside information here.)
The problem occurs somewhat on the fringe, and here the numbers are probably still mind-boggling, but that is because the program is so incredibly "long tail" huge. We can debate whether Google makes it too easy to "get into" the program the first time; I have special concerns about YouTube and have relayed these thoughts on several occasions. However, I'm pretty confident that things work right for most publishers, and while the disabled publishers aren't going to be happy with their experience, for most of them, the consequences are economically insignificant, especially if their AdSense revenue is hobby or pin money. (I'm not speaking of the scammers and game-players here trying to milk the system; they get what they deserve when their accounts are disabled, and yes, a significant portion of disabled accounts fit into this dubious category.)
So then we are left with the subset of disabled publishers who had hoped to make a real business out of the thing, but things wen't wrong at the start and they believe they should have a second chance, and failing that, at least to know with some understanding how to proceed. Here, my truly exceptional experience provides the answer. I tested the boundaries between business and personal accounts, and through a truly odds-defying experience, "lost" my business account but have retained my personal account. In the case of a publisher who wishes to return with a business account after losing a personal account, indeed it is possible -- but again, this needs to be done in a business-like way, and that is why I preach "multiple clients" and not putting AdSense at the centre of the business plan.
Realistically, AdSense has created perhaps a million or so publishers, when, previously, the number of people who would claim that as an occupation in a city of a million might be 50 or so individuals. I know -- because historically publishing has been a somewhat rare (if incredibly challenging) occupation. I survived the account disabling experience in part because of this business experience and knowledge. Others can, too, but only a tiny minority will even try.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||AliBhai1||12/1/12 12:33 PM|
Why not google tell about that right in front of sign up page that this is your only chance in our Programme.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Brains1964||12/2/12 4:09 AM|
Even allowing for the fact that Google Adsense has millions of user of the scheme and allowing for the fact that in comparison the people who post on this site are a tiny pin point representation, one still can get an idea of things, for example, when doing a review of a company that you would like to do business with but you just want to get some more information on others experience of them, you must be aware that those people writing the reviews, good, bad or indifferent will be just one of millions who use the same company, so when you think of it like that, reviews will not tell you what those millions of others think of the company in question, just a few but even so, you will expect and look for a high number of good reports being made about a good company and only the odd one or two (if at all) whom might say "this company is terrible...don't use", if you get a high number saying it, then that should ring alarm bells, despite knowing that these are just a relatively few in comparison to the total number of that businesses customer it still is not a very good reflection and will tell you something is wrong, applying this principle to this forum, same thing, one would expect a few complaints and threads made by people who want to trash Google Adsense, even further allowing for the fact that this section of the forum is for people who have been disabled, again you would expect a few very bad threads but this is not "a few", there is thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread (I guess you get the point eh ??:D) saying more or less the same thing, there is no denying that there is a problem here and a serious one that Adsense should by all rights address but as I say, they won't until they feel it could damage their profits and currently they very arrogantly don't feel that they need to worry about it.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Brains1964||12/2/12 4:19 AM|
It sort of does say it but not in so many words so you're right in that sense, of course we know why they don't want to exactly shout it from the rooftops don't we?? :D, it's like with everything, the scheme is softly "sold" to us, highlighting the good things that are in it for us and of course the bits we won't like are in the small print which only comes to light later when they decide to dump us.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Dan B.||12/2/12 4:39 AM|
That is not necessarily true. I spent some time in a related industry, and in the end, when it comes to company reviews and user/customer input, the overall picture is generally skewed unfairly to the bad. I am not saying a huge amount, but it varies. People tend to say nothing if they get good service, because it's what they expected to get. More often than not people are more likely to share their opinions if they are angry.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||AliBhai1||12/2/12 4:41 AM|
yes , true Adsense is great for thousands of people around the world.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Cade||12/2/12 5:48 AM|
"yes , true Adsense is great for thousands of people around the world."Definitely. There are thousands of guys who make a $100/day with Adsense, and have been doing it for years, because they adhere to the TOS, monitor their traffic, and continually educate themselves about the pitfalls of generating traffic from suspect sources (for example, social media in the past 2-3 years.) They have no problems, do not put their accounts in danger, and keep getting a check every month.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Dan B.||12/2/12 6:26 AM|
"There are thousands of guys who make a $100/day with Adsense"
I'd love to see the citation for that statement. :-)
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||AliBhai1||12/2/12 6:28 AM|
But Now there are more , who actually get , blocked, disappoved and all.
I have searched through internet and there is a gradual shift, and Adsense getting more and more strict with years , it was easy to be approved in 2005 . when they had lesser publishers in the programme , but as it is filled up Now so they disapproving more people.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||i4c||12/2/12 6:34 AM|
When they first started they even paid commission to existing publishers to recruit others to get it off the ground.Then, during the boom years, in my opinion, got sloppy by making it all too easy to join through naff blogs, tumblr, youtube etc. Now the boom years are over and the advertisers demand much more in return for their outlay they have tightened up and rightly demand a higher standard of their publishers but again, just a personal opinion, didn't tighten up at their end and still mainly rely on automated systems rather than informed humans to make decisions ~ thus a lot of the collateral damage.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Cade||12/2/12 6:41 AM|
"I'd love to see the citation for that statement. :-)"Yeah, I read that a couple of years ago about the number of guys who make $30K+. I wished I had copied down the source.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||i4c||12/2/12 6:42 AM|
...I wish I had copied down their method.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Dan B.||12/2/12 7:48 AM|
technology has advanced a lot in that time, trends and savvy among internet trolls and hackers have changed and improved, any successful company has to be agile enough to shift with the trends, and with what succeeds over what doesn't. Ya gotta roll with the punches.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||AliBhai1||12/2/12 10:44 AM|
Why I was not on internet by that time when they paid commissions for sign up :(
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||i4c||12/2/12 11:12 AM|
Coz you were just 12yrs old (before you discovered facial hair :)
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Brains1964||12/2/12 11:56 AM|
I agree and let's face it, there are some people that just like to complain for the sake of it, in fairness to Google Adsense or anybody, there will always be a few who will either find fault or even make stuff about their experiences with anything or anyone, as you kind of say, if someone had a great experience with Adsense they might not be as quick to say so than if there was a problem, so yes, I get that totally, I truly do but once again, even allowing for all that and more it's still clear to me from the disproportionate volume of complaints here on this forum that there is a real problem with Adsense in regards to the harsh manner in which they suddenly, without fair warning, disable accounts, reject most appeals regardless of what is said in them and then ban for life, all I can say is that the people that would normally complain anyway sure don't have to make stuff up in this case, they've got plenty of material to work with, the life time ban from the program is the craziest to me, 6 months, 12 months, even a few years would be fair enough but forever?? come on!
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Dan B.||12/2/12 12:15 PM|
I think you are making your assumptions of disproportion based on a very skewed sampleset of users...for anyone with even a small amount of basic web dev skills and any internet app savvy at all, the AdSense application works without issue. Therefore most people in that demographic never even show up here because they were able to get an account, login, create their ads and paste them in their code, because honestly, it's not that tough.
There is a very small handful of people that come here with legit concerns/problems that should be dealt with, but, by and large, most of the issues here are more due to ignorance of even the most basic web dev tech, or they are simply completely misguided and looking for some way to make money with no work, or have gotten disabled, and, completely deserved it. That is a bad sampleset to draw a wide ranging conclusion from.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||AliBhai1||12/2/12 1:43 PM|
Well sorry , It is world that is dominated by Adsense and it will have any rules that people in it think are good.
It is pure business going on nothing else. :)
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Brains1964||12/2/12 2:47 PM|
Of course they SHOULD be dealt with but they're obviously not being dealt with by Google Adsense, except in the way that they seem to deal with any problem with an account, ie, send an auto generated email effectively saying "end of....terminated...goodbye" etc, this seems to be their answer to everything regardless of the different circumstances that users are in which they explain when they come on here, it reminds me of Anne Robinson in her show 'The Weakest Link' :D, as far as the question of the technical abilities of most of those that got disabled or whether they were misguided or not, what their motives were for getting involved with the program in the first place were etc, to me, all that is irrelevant as far as Google Adsense's behavior is concerned, besides, how do you know that those whom the scheme HAS worked for were not just doing it because they wanted to make some easy money too??, how are they then any better than those whom got disabled who just wanted to make some 'no work' money in the same way??, are those that the scheme HAS worked for proving necessarily by virtue of that Adsense success that they are any more technically able than those whom it hasn't worked out for??.....ermmmm....I see no evidence for that at all, sure you can assume it because of the fact that they failed to stop their websites from being bombarded by bad activity but I would have to question that.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||luzie||12/2/12 3:02 PM|
>>> because of the fact that they failed to stop their
This is usually just an assumption made by clueless webmasters themselves. There may be the one or other case where this "bombarding by bad activity" had really taken place, but I don't believe this to be very common. Most cases rather look more like a lack of "benign" activity than the presence of bad one ... Of course half a dozen "invalid" clicks could cause havoc for an account - but only in absence of the necessary thousands of clicks made out of real interest.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Publisher1||12/2/12 4:28 PM|
Well, I certainly was "bombarded by bad activity" a couple of years ago -- by a nutcase disabled publisher up to fraud, who wanted to bring me to his level. It turned into a rather "entertaining" two weeks. Sure, there are nutcases, and competitors, and various efforts at sabotage. This type of issue isn't confined to AdSense. If you Google "joe job" you'll find it has nothing to do with joes looking for jobs -- and yes, someone tried one of these nasty deeds on me in 2005 on, of all days, Christmas Eve. More recently, I blogged about problems with Yelp. Seems the Yelp system is now flagging businesses which purchase positive reviews -- if it finds evidence, it posts the information, and discounts their status. So someone suggested that a competitor could set up a scheme to "buy" the positive reviews for the targeted business he hoped to harm. Evil exists in the real world of business. Since I'm now batting 1000 in overcoming this sort of nonsense, I've grown a fairly thick skin to people who say they are victims of sabotage. The reason is that a combination of alertness, common-sense (and though my vanity is showing here) integrity usually can be applied to overcome these sorts of problems and a publisher who is passive about unwelcome attacks lacks the competence, care and attention required to be successful in business.
I don't think Google AdSense is perfect, and I'm quite confident some small publishers are caught in circumstances they don't wish to happen. Maybe a family member or friend "helping", or perhaps the bots sense the publisher or videographer's network of friends and social media relationships is just a bit too close for comfort. The system is brutally clinical and abrupt, and it certainly doesn't feel good to get the rejecting "account disabling" email. I've been there, twice.
But I advocate that publishers show a bit of maturity here -- we are business-to-business suppliers, and maybe, if we start thinking that way, instead of as aggrieved consumers, we would begin to see how we can succeed and move forward despite rejection from the AdSense bots. Look, we are providing a service to advertisers, through an agent (Google); if we have something really valuable to offer real advertisers, we can certainly sell our own ads. Today, for example, I put a couple of AdSense blocks on a new site -- but my company's regional publisher has already sold several thousand dollars in contract ads to businesses who want to be there. If I'm lucky, the AdSense will earn me $10 to $20 a month from that site.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Dan B.||12/2/12 5:06 PM|
Not true, the AdSense staff deals with problems that we escalate to them, but, they do not deal with them on the forums, they contact publishers, which are found to have legitimate issues, privately and handle them. So of course you won't see the ending of the situation, and a vast majority of the time the publisher isn't going to bother coming back here to say they were dealt with to their satisfaction. But again, if they are found to be illegitimate or they are not given the result they want, they will sure is heck sit here and complain, which goes back to the skewed sampleset I mentioned earlier.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Brains1964||12/3/12 1:55 AM|
That sounds good but may I probe thee further?? :D, how many of those problems and concerns expressed here including those that have been addressed and resolved satisfactorily by Adsense in private with the Publisher are actually connected with being disabled for so called "invalid activity" like many of us have been??, this forum has a lot of other sections that don't deal with the issue of being disabled, especially for said "invalid activity", they deal with other matters connected with active accounts, I would like to know if there is a high number of Publishers whom get disabled for that good ol' "invalid activity" chestnut and come on here to present their case and actually get Adsense contacting them about it??....more to the point, how many get exonerated (if I can put it like that) and their accounts back??, if a lot, I would have thought they would be only toooooo happy to come on here and let everyone know!
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Dan B.||12/3/12 3:36 AM|
I would suspect very, very little, because Google doesn't, contrary how it may look, disable people without cause, and invalid activity rarely results in a turnover of their decision even in the best situation. Google track soooooo much data, and analyzing it for dozens and dozens of signals of various types of activity and behaviors, that, when they disable someone, they have more than enough date that it takes an act of the Great Architect to turn it around.
The key to look at it in this instance I believe, is recognizing the difference between what Google sees as valid reasons for disabling as compared to what the average publisher thinks is "fair".
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||splatcat||12/3/12 4:23 AM|
how many get exonerated
I still don't think you get the issue of invalid activity... no one gets exonerated because it isn't a belief, it is a statistical fact. They aren't asking you to prove you didn't do it. They are saying your account stats are not beneficial for their advertisers. If you can do something about that then they may take you back but if you are unable to do so or wont do so then its not the type of traffic they want.
Its not about being believed or not believed, its not about pleading your case. It's about Adsense using sites whose traffic profile is beneficial to their clients. You are taking the phrase "invalid activity" as being something emotional... it's not. It's a statistical outcome. Maybe they should phrase it differently, "unsuitable traffic", "crap traffic". For some reason the traffic coming from your site is performing poorly for AdSense clients and normally it's a case of crap in crap out (although there maybe other explanations).
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||stooony1380||12/3/12 6:35 AM|
"They are saying your account stats are not beneficial for their advertisers"If that's the case maybe they shouldn't let sites and youtube channels with those kind of stats join in the first place.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||splatcat||12/3/12 6:48 AM|
Whilst I agree they should be stricter for other reasons (e.g. content) you can't really ask them to somehow look into the future and see what sort of visitor you may be sending to their advertisers at some stage. I suppose they could hazard a guess but I'm not sure how they would do that. Personally I'd rather they accepted my site so I could prove that it has high quality traffic which would be good for their advertisers.
Visitor quality can change for so many reasons, where you place your ads, where you advertise your site, the demographic of your visitors, the amount of truly social traffic you get. The only way I think AdSense can really monitor it is to look at the results.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||stooony1380||12/3/12 7:03 AM|
There is a way. It is called probation. With an accepted or a denied at the end but without the lifetime ban if we are doing it wrong.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Dan B.||12/3/12 7:07 AM|
Why would they create yet another status with more oversight needed? Right now they operate it efficiently and effectively. Your account is the source of problems, cut it loose...and be done with it...and take any of the hundreds, if not thousands, lined up ready to take the place and try...
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||splatcat||12/3/12 7:23 AM|
Well they do have a way and it's called an appeal. Personally I think people appeal invalid activity far too early and having done far too little. The vast majority of appeals fail due to this. If the issue were invalid activity then I wouldn't consider appealing for at least 3 months AFTER I have done substantial work on my site and its promotion. Changing the nature of traffic coming to or leaving a site can take a long long time. From what I've seen the vast majority of people we see in this forum appeal before they have made any alterations at all to their site with the standard Bart Simpson response.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Dan B.||12/3/12 7:25 AM|
Not to mention also after emotions calm down, a quick appeal always leads to an emotional response, which is basically a waste.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||i4c||12/3/12 7:30 AM|
@ It is called probation
There is that option for some:
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||splatcat||12/3/12 8:06 AM|
Had forgotten that
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Brains1964||12/3/12 11:57 AM|
how many get exonerated
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Dan B.||12/3/12 12:37 PM|
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Brains1964||12/3/12 1:04 PM|
On Monday, 3 December 2012 20:37:44 UTC, Dan B. wrote:
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Cade||12/3/12 5:26 PM|
You are killing me, DanB.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||AliBhai1||12/4/12 3:22 AM|
Can't see Youtube videos , Hope it gets back soon !
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Michael Broadway||12/4/12 9:51 AM|
Oliver - I have had the same thing happen to me. (After seven years of having an account. with my old email address.) About two weeks ago, someone click-bombed one of my YouTube videos to the tune of $95, unknown to me until I got the email telling me of "invalid activity." Naturally, I appealed, but that was denied also. Have you had any success in getting help or reinstatement of your account. I've tried creating new email address, but even then when I try to access Adsense, I get the Account Disabled message. If you come up with a solution, PLEASE let me know. Thanks.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Brains1964||12/4/12 11:42 AM|
Outside of Google Adsense reinstating your account which is as we all know here highly unlikely when they disable one for that reason, the only way I can see you or anyone who really wanted to create another account with them doing so in theory (I'm not encouraging this...just pointing it out) would be to change IPS, because that is how their system identity's someone who has been disabled, even though you may create a new email it's still part of the same IP account which it is able to identify, maybe even your PC is part of how they identify people too (big brothers watching you LOL) because that also has a unique address, if someone changed all of that they could then come in as a "new" Adsense account I reckon, I can't see how Google's system could possibly know, of course, what Google Adsense do know is that this would be very inconvenient for most people to do and they could only do it a limited number of times so they are probably not worried about that loophole, I certainly wouldn't bother doing that as I'm happy with my IPS but if anyone really, desperately wanted to give the Adsense program another try and their willing to sacrifice their current internet provider for another one...well....that would be their best bet if you ask me, as I say, not encouraging it, just saying :D.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Cade||12/4/12 1:34 PM|
"if someone changed all of that they could then come in as a "new" Adsense account I reckon, I can't see how Google's system could possibly know"Don't listen to this nonsense, you'll be terminated in a heartbeat. Google will nail you with your tax ID when it comes time to be paid. You could establish a business account, as Publisher1 pointed out to you in another thread, but going to the expense and effort of creating an LLC, EIN, new addresses, etc...and making sure NOTHING points back to your personal account is a poor reason to pin your business on Adsense.
You need to find out what truly happened to create the invalid activity on your YouTube account...and how you will prevent it in the future. There thousands of guys who make good money with their YouTube accounts, and they never have a problem with site security.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Brains1964||12/4/12 3:46 PM|
Bimey, you're optimistic ain't ya matey??, it takes longer than a heartbeat to get to the "time to be paid stage" that's a fact LOL, I'm sure if someone could get valid clicks amounting to above the pay threshold within that time Google would be only too pleased to do business with them whatever their tax ID :D, seriously though, I wasn't saying that it would definitely work, I suspected as much that Google might have other methods to prevent that although I don't know for certain, I haven't and won't be trying it myself, it was just a suggestion if someone was keen enough to have a bash, there would be nothing to lose, they're banned anyway.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Dan B.||12/4/12 3:57 PM|
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Oliver Dixon||12/7/12 10:58 AM|
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||Publisher1||12/7/12 12:01 PM|
Yeah, that would fill several glasses . . .
Yep, the only way I know "for sure" that a person with a disabled account could be restored (outside of a successful appeal) is through a properly structured business account, and that is tested through real-life experience. But I didn't need to create a business account (I lost mine!) and I had a personal account (with everything distinctive including postal address and bank accounts) that survived the original business account disabling. Why anyone would think of starting a real business just for AdSense is beyond me. It simply doesn't make (business) sense.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||wth????||12/8/12 2:24 PM|
Not anymore HA! Guess you all better read-up on the new rules.
|Re: A horrifyingly worrying concern with AdSense.||AliBhai1||12/9/12 3:53 AM|
which one ?